Do you think that you and your party are being punished for Zapatero’s austerity program — for the fact that he reduced the wages of civil servants and tried to cut the deficit?
It’s not that. The problem is unemployment, and that’s what people are really angry about. We have over 4 million unemployed — 21 percent. What is worse is that people tend to feel very pessimistic. We have the first generation of young people who feel that their living standards will be worse than their parents’. And that pessimistic outlook is what we need to do something about.
Would you be willing to change the labor laws? From what I understand it is difficult to fire anybody.
That’s not actually true. These are two separate points. In fact, it is so easy to fire people that in two years, 4 million people have been fired.
We have changed the clause in labor contracts about objective dismissal, which means that if a company fires somebody because they are not making a profit, they will not have to pay [severance of] 33 days a year, but 20.
Twenty days for how long?
For every year they worked for that company.
What do you see as the main differences between you and the opposition candidate, Mariano Rajoy?
Certainly our social sensibilities are different. We believe you can overcome this crisis without significantly reducing basic social rights or protections. I believe that to cut spending in education is crazy. Education is the future. And to cut funding for research and development is crazy. Our health-care system is cheap and very good.
Also in basic freedoms. Rajoy has already announced that he will be amending the abortion law, and I don’t believe that should be changed. He is against the gay marriage act, and I am not.
Do you differ on the economy?
There are differences, too. I think we should tax the wealthier individuals in our society. I think we should have a tax on big fortunes, and Rajoy does not believe so. As for the corporate tax, we should provide more tax breaks for small or medium-sized companies and take away some of the breaks from big corporations. That is another substantial difference between us.
I assume you believe that some cuts will need to be made by the next prime minister. Would you make cuts in the military budget?
Probably. But we can’t reduce our operational capabilities. Our armed forces are professional and capable of participating in peacekeeping missions.
Under your government, didn’t Spain
participate in the Libya operation?
Yes, we did. We have just withdrawn, but yes, we did.
Some assert that if there are too many budget cuts, this will lead to civil unrest.
The situation in Spain right now is complex because we do have millions of people unemployed, so there is quite a lot of discontent. So far we have managed to keep social peace — to a large extent, because the major unions have made a big effort to keep the dialogue going. We were just discussing introducing more flexibility in the relations between employers and the unions, and the unions accepted these changes.
Would you say that you have a better
relationship with the unions than Rajoy?
Probably. You can say that we are closer politically to their views than the Popular Party.
If it were necessary to change labor laws, would it be easier for your party to talk to the unions?
We have a very solid dialogue in labor relations. We have changed all the contract modes and dismissal and severance packages, and we have also changed the collective-bargaining process. But that’s still to be implemented. My point is: Let’s implement it. Let’s see if it works.
You have held four positions as a minister.
Yes, minister of education, speaker of the government and then vice president and minister of home affairs simultaneously.
What would you say were the most important turning points in your life?
As for milestones in my life, certainly the last five years in Home Affairs have been extremely important. I was in charge of the anti-terrorist policies. If there is anything at all that I might have contributed to the end of terrorism — that would be enough fulfillment for my whole political career.
Rajoy is ahead in the polls. Is that because people blame your party for the economic situation and you have to pay the price?
Absolutely. I have a difficult battle ahead, but it is so important for the country and the party. Spain needs to make significant changes, and I would like those changes to be made with the same principles that have taken us this far.
lally.weymouth@washpost.com
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