Outlook: The Candidates on Religion

Religion's in the air on the political trail. Since Howard Dean announced he'd be talking more about his faith, the subject of the presidential candidates' spiritual beliefs has been hot news. Unfortunately, says religion journalist Steven Waldman in Sunday's Outlook section (The Candidates' Spiritual Path), most of what the media's saying is not only a simplistic distortion of the candidates' religious statements, but reflects some serious misconceptions about how Americans develop and practice their faith. It's important that politicians talk about their beliefs, Waldman asserts, because it offers valuable insights into their character and thinking, but the tendency to pick apart every religious remark they utter is a risky undertaking that threatens to put a chill on open and honest discussion of religion.

Waldman was online Friday, Jan. 8 at Noon ET, to discuss his Outlook article and the role of religion on the campaign trail.

Waldman is editor in chief of Beliefnet, a multifaith religion and spirituality Web site.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Mt. Rainier, Md.: I agree with the tenor of your argument that journalists tend to be nitpicky on matters of faith. But on Franken's criticism of Bush and his lack of specific knowledge on a book that he professed to have studied for two years, Bush laid himself open to this. Bush has set himself up as being the "religious" president and ran on his born-again credentials. I would expect Lieberman to know about the Pentateuch, and I would expect a born-again Protestant to know his Bible. Otherwise it is a clear sign of cheap credentials. Bush was burnishing his credentials and it turns out they aren't worth much.

Steven Waldman: Mt. Rainier Md,
It is true that politicians who hold themselves to be especially pious, leave themselves open to that kind of criticism. I just think that EVEN if they're exaggerating their piety, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete sham

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Southern Maryland: Why do politicians feel pressured to declare some sort of faith in God? Because of the Mau-Mauing from the more extreme elements of the Christian right, which sees church and state as the same thing. I gag every time I hear someone claim that America was founded on Christian principles. I believe in God, too. I just don't believe that we should have an unwritten rule that our elected officials should believe in God. Isn't that almost like having a state religion?

Steven Waldman: I think politicians talk about their faith for a few reasons. First, it's a way of signalling that they are just like the voters (or most of them), people of faith. Second, it is often a way of conveying values, or a sense that you think about values, and not just policy. It opens up a personal side that humanizes the politician

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Arlington, Va.: Political candidates today, at least at the presidential level, often feel obliged to profess active faith while at the same time assuring voters that their faith will not guide their political decisions --presumably on the grounds that their faith may not be shared by important portions of the electorate.

From devout believers' perspectives, however (whatever their own faith), that's a thoroughly unsettling concept. They might well ask such candidates, do your beliefs about ultimate things matter so little that they will not influence your major life's work?

In taking such a position, candidates may be remembering the alarm John F. Kennedy's candidacy caused among many Protestants, and the fact that his election depended on his ability to reassure them that his presidential decisions would not be dictated by the Pope.

However, I wonder if today's candidates wouldn't be better off taking the position instead of the first American presidential candidate whose (deeply-held but decidedly unorthodox) religious beliefs became a campaign issue: Thomas Jefferson, who steadfastly refused to make any public declaration at all about his faith on the grounds that faith was a matter of private conscience and unless his own could be inferred from his actions it meant nothing. Strangely enough, that may strike orthodox believers as a position of considerably greater integrity than that adopted by so many politicians today.

Your thoughts?

Steven Waldman: Jefferson was the victim of some horrible smears about his religion. In 1800, Adams' supporters said he was an atheist that was going to doom the country. I guess I feel that it would be equally problematic for them not to talk about the effect faith has on their decision making (if it does) because the voters would be deprived of knowing a key factor in what makes their president do what he/she does. We want to know about all the other factors: policy, politics, special interest money, poll obsessions, etc. So why not faith?

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Fairfax, Va.: I am relieved that you think the media has distorted and/or simplified the religious beliefs of candidates. Otherwise, I cannot believe that Howard Dean would actually change his denomination over something as petty as an argument over a bike path. Surely, this isn't true?

Steven Waldman: I actually don't know the full story on Dean and the bike path. But in a weird way, I don't actually think leaving a church over a bike path is necessarily a bad reason. Part of why one chooses a house of worship is a sense of community -- not only how you connect with the other parishioners but also, in some cases, whether the church is helping the community. If the bike path became a symbol of the church's doing something against the community, then it may have taken on serious meaning.

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Bowie, Md.: Seeing as politicians are adept at completely re-making themselves and their positions as elections demand, why should we ever take seriously that a political position is rooted in faith instead of the other way around?

Steven Waldman: I guess I feel that for politicians, EVERYTHING has a political calculus but that doesn't mean that the political calculus is everything. Someone can be a person of real faith AND exaggerate the piety. Perhaps we should just listen, assume it's about 30% exaggerated and then asses them from there

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Nederland, Colo.: Would you please summarize what we can reasonably believe that Mr. Bush said about the connection of his faith to his office? It's been variously reported that he told people such things as that God chose him to be President, chose him to wage the "war on terror," etc. How far does Mr. Bush's faith extend to believing in a coming apocalypse emanating from the Middle East, a belief well known to be held by many Republicans?

Steven Waldman: I think Bush believes that God is supporting America in its fight against terrorism. It has also been reported that he thinks God put him there specifically. That's less clear, though it is clear that many of his supporters do believe that. And certainly for some of his supporters, an apocalyptic worldview helps fuel their strong support for Israel. I don't think that's the main factor for Bush. The main impact his faith has on him, in my opinion, is a) giving him strength and b) giving him a fairly black-and-white view of good vs evil

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Alexandria, Va.: Tim Russert is making a distinction that doesn't hold a lot of theological water. A person who has gone from Catholic to Episcopalian to Congregationalist has remained a Christian the entire time. They use the same creeds and the same Bible and even the same hymns and pattern of worship (liturgical). So yes, a small difference between one congregation and the next could be the deal-breaker. I get disgusted with people who commonly refer to these as different "religions;" they are not, any more than Sunni and Shia are, being both Islamic sects.

Steven Waldman: Historically, of course, they weren't viewed that way. Protestants viewed Catholics as almost worse than being another religion (and vice versa). But these days the denominational lines are getting softer

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Washington, D.C.: Steve:

Were you offended as much as I was by the religiously insensitive remark by Sen. Hilary Clinton about Ghandi? As a member of the Buddhist community, I was deeply offended.

Why is she getting a free pass on this? It wasn't even funny and reveals a true unseriousness about her.

Steven Waldman: Yikes! I missed it. What did she say?

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Greenbelt, Md.: In the US we elect presidents, not Ayatollahs. The continuing insinuation of religion into politics is fatal to democracy.

For example, if someone we'll call "President B" engages in an illegal war against a nation that is not a legitimate threat to the U.S., but claims he did it because God told him to, how do we debate the merits of said war? How are public officials held accountable for poor decisions and possible corruption when they claim divine policy advice?

Less religion in politics, more truth. That's healthy for democracy.

Steven Waldman: The thing about religious inspiration for policy, is that politicians of all sides can claim it or have it. So ultimately, voters are going to have to make their own judgments about the policy

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Boston, Mass.: I am a devout Catholic, and I am very disappointed in the candidates who are Catholic and dismiss their faith when it comes to the life issues. Why is there such a disconnect?

Steven Waldman: Great question. Some Catholic candidates are a lot like many rank and file Catholics -- i.e. they feel like it's ok to be Catholic but disagree with some of the church's teachings. Obviously the Church does not agree with that idea and is starting to get more aggressive in trying to push Catholic politicians to abide by Catholic teachings

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Pacific Grove, Calif.: So it looks like Religion is going to become an issue in the 2004 elections.

What will this look like? I mean I can already see the issues of, say, abortion and gay marriage becoming litmus tests -- but are their other aspects of religion and faith that candidates are planning to address?

Steven Waldman: I think gay marriage is the big one. It will dwarf everything else.

In a way, I don't think religion per se will be a big issue by itself but will help to shape a picture of the candidate's overall character and possibility. In other words, I think Bush's religion will be important not so much because of, say, his faith based initiative than a sense of whether people think he's pious or strong or moral as a result of his faith (or not)

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Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C.: I think a very serious problem with the quality of the religious dialogue among politicians is that no one is actually willing to criticize anyone's statements about religion. So you have George Bush say that his great philosopher is Jesus but then not one Democrat will say, well Jesus would not be hanging out with Enron executives, or Halliburton -- he'd be out among the poor and dispossessed. The constant repetition of conservative religious values seem to have given the impression that those are the only religious values. I'd really like to see a "muscular christianity" that's willing to stand up and say -- hey, you've got this wrong. This is what is right. Maybe if that dialogue happened, folks could remember a bit about why the founders erected a wall between church and state. Right now I have the feeling that by failing to discuss it, we're only postponing an even bigger argument to the future. What do you think?

Steven Waldman: I think it would be great if politicians had debates along the lines you mentioned. What I don't like is when pundits take a candidates views on faith and say or imply that they're not sufficiently religious or that the quality of their spiritual observance is somehow lacking

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Annandale, Va.: Reading many newspaper articles would lead you to believe that Christians are all right-wing conservatives. I am disturbed that ten of thousands of people are made invisible -- nonexistant -- by this identification of Christianity and conservatism. Most of the Christians I know are very liberal. This is either sloppy or ignorant journalism.

Steven Waldman: I agree.

One third of EVANGELICAL

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Gibsonville, N.C.: Since it is clear that a stated belief is NOT always how a president will think and act... why even seriously consider a candidates statements?

Steven Waldman: well, i guess 'cause you have go on something! Actually, I think their statements are most often exaggerations not fabrications -- i.e. you usually can learn a lot about their views and character if you listen/read with some discernment

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Arlington, Va.: As a Humanist and atheist all of the professing of religion by the candidates is rather unsettling to me. Could an atheist ever be elected president or any other high office? I realize that they use it as a way of connecting with some voters. But I think it's a shame that people equate having morals or values with religion. I think I'm a pretty moral person who has good values, but that doesn't have anything to do with religion.

Steven Waldman: I once asked Bush if he thought it was possible to be moral if you weren't religious. He said yes -- but it would be harder for him.

Beliefnet Interviews George W. Bush

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Steven Waldman: Annandale, Va.: Reading many newspaper articles would lead you to believe that Christians are all right-wing conservatives. I am disturbed that ten of thousands of people are made invisible -- nonexistant -- by this identification of Christianity and conservatism. Most of the Christians I know are very liberal. This is either sloppy or ignorant journalism.

Steven Waldman: I agree.

One third of EVANGELICAL christians voted for clinton
Conversely, the group that is most conservative on social issues other than "religious right"? African Americans

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Hilary's Joke: Steve: Hillary preceded a Gandhi quote OVER A WEEK AGO by saying that Gandhi ran the "quickie mart" down in St. Louis, feeding the stereotypical of ethnic ownership of these gas station/stores.

It is a testament to the liberal media's protection of her that you, a newspaper-reading media observer, did not know about it.

Steven Waldman: Wow. That's pretty appalling. I'll look it up. Thanks

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Concord, Mass.: I share your concern about coverage of candidates' religious views. What do you have to say about columnist Cal Thomas, who criticized Howard Dean for the ostensible hypocrisy of proclaiming himself a Christian but allowing his children to be raised Jewish? To me this seemed like an extremely shallow analysis with a fair dose of anti-Semitism thrown in. (After all, Joseph and Mary seemed to be OK by raising their child Jewish.)

But I have not heard much furor over these outrageous comments -- is this because most of the press does not really take an interest in religion?

Steven Waldman: Funny you should ask... I deal with Cal Thomas' comments in my piece. I actually respect Thomas a great deal but definitely disagreed with him on this. Here's what I wrote:

Similarly, syndicated columnist Cal Thomas mocked Dean for raising his children in the Jewish faith: "Dean's wife is Jewish and his two children are being raised Jewish, which is strange at best, considering the two faiths take a distinctly different view of Jesus." But millions of Americans have figured out how to raise kids in interfaith marriages, and the number is huge if you consider interdenominational marriages, which still involve ignoring serious theological lines. More than 60 percent of married people have spouses of another denomination or religion, according to the General Social Survey.

While raising children in such families certainly has challenges, it does not cause nearly the cognitive dissonance Thomas suspects. I'm Jewish. My wife is Presbyterian. Our kids go to Hebrew school and say the Lord's Prayer at night. My wife delights in telling our kids the story of how a poor baby born in a manger grew to spiritual greatness. Yes, Judaism and Christianity take a different view on the divinity of Jesus, which we acknowledge to our kids. But Thomas would be surprised to see how pious the children of interfaith families can be if you focus on the right values and the common ground in the two belief systems.

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Great Crossing, Ky.: Mr Waldman, You wrote "But picking apart a candidate's views on faith is a risky business." Isn't basing national policy, both foreign and domestic, on one's religious beliefs even more risky?

Steven Waldman: Yes. We should be careful with both.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: I believe Americans are pretty savvy on who has serious religious beliefs and those pandering to the cameras to get across a set of beliefs they really don't hold. Regardless of the faith involved, Americans respect those who integrate their faith into their political ideals but laugh off those who are only mouthing something they think sounds nice to the public.

Case in point. Bush and Lieberman hold deep seated religious beliefs and often mention them in a respectful and admirable way. However, Dean makes ridiculous comments showing he's only saying what some campaign staffer told him people want to hear. Or "Catholic" politicians who campaign on their pro-abortion credentials -- mostly Democrats -- something which illustrates their utter lack of understanding of their Christian faith.

People would rather hear, "I'm not particularly religious" than see some buffoon saying Job is in the New Testament, or have the cameras snapping as they attend Sunday Mass and then vote on a pro-abortion bill the following Monday.

Steven Waldman: Excellent point. He might have done better if he'd said, "Well I don't go to church all that much but religion has still had powerful effect on me. For instance, the book of Job taught me...."

Unfortunately, the reality is that if he'd said THAT, you'd be seeing GOP ads in the south about how dean doesn't go to church

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Lyme, Conn.: It may be important to many voters to know candidates' religious beliefs, yet what if those beliefs are private? For instance, many Congregationalists prefer to communicate with God in their own way and do so without ornate churches, public confessions or testimonials, or outward displays of beliefs to others. Should such a candidate be penalized for refusing to discuss his or her beliefs in detail?

Steven Waldman: I think it's fair to ask the candidates about their faiths, fair for candidates to say it's private, AND fair for voters to say that therefore they don't want to vote for the person. It depends on how important the voter thinks that religion is for a leader. To me, it's pretty important that we get SOME reading n their faith life, not because there's a "correct" answer but because I want to know the person is of sufficient depth that he/she has thought about the Big Questions, and not just tactics/policy. We're all surprised now that President Bush has approached foreign policy with a very black-and-white good vs evil approach (which has been both praised and criticized). If we'd understood his religious views and the role of faith, we might not have been so surprised.

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Bowie, Md.: What facts are firmly known about the alleged remark Former President Bush (GHWB) made that he didn't consider atheists "real Americans" or some such thing?

Steven Waldman: I've never heard that. Not sure it's true.

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Mt. Rainier, Md.: If politicians were actually mirroring the behavior of the majority of Americans, they'd be in church/synagogue about twice a year. There's some hypocrisy floating loose in the electorate, too, which may be why the candidates often seem hypocritical.

Steven Waldman: Good point. Studies have shown that people routinely exaggerate their likelihood to attend church

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Alexandria, Va.: What effect does the hiring of Joe Gibbs have on the issue of religion in political campaigns?

Steven Waldman: Leap of faith

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New York, N.Y.: For a country that professes to be secular, we sure are riddled with religious and god-like references. Whether it's "In God We Trust" on our money or "One nation, under God" in our pledge of allegiance, every mention of God screams hypocrisy.

It seems to me that the people who claim to "love America" more than anyone (i.e. flag-waving, god-fearing, church-going members of society) miss the point of America, and to some extent, miss the point of religion.

America is a society rooted in democratic ideals, ideals created by people, not by god. So why do so many people, our leaders included, feel the need to invoke god and religion into every aspect of our culture. These people need to get a life of their own and stop preaching to others about how people "should" live their lives. We're a society of choice, and the forcing of ideas on others (as Ann Coulter suggests when she says we should convert everyone to Christianity) just causes resentment.

America, and its politicians, need to wake up and realize that there's a whole big world out there, not to mention a whole big country right here, with thousands of different religions, beliefs and ways of life. Not everyone is White Anglo Saxon Protestant.

Steven Waldman: George Bush has actually done a lot to promote this pluralistic argument. When he said he thought Christians, Jews and Muslims pray to the same God, it angered some Christians but also showed he was not exclusivist

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Bowie, Md.: Don't know who came up with the line that the Bush Administration practiced "faith-based intelligence" with regard to WMDs. Then we had a senior Army general saying that we would win the war in the Middle East because the Christian god is stronger than Allah, or some such thing. Seventy percent of Americans (as of September) thought there was good evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11.

Has this Administration's Middle East policy been at least partly driven by theology?

Steven Waldman: I don't think it's been a big factor. I do think Bush's personal faith made him supremely confident he was doing the right thing which, depending on your point of view made him clear-and-steadfast or ignoring-reality

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Hannover, Germany: Thank you for your insightful article!

As a Lutheran pastor from Germany, coping with more and more people finding religion irrelevant, it is quite interesting to follow the "religious debates" accompanying the U.S. presidential campaign.

Why is it that at this day and age the American electorate can be described (i.e. in Jim VandeHei's article on Dean in yesterday's Post) as "increasingly religious?" How do you explain the "increasingly?"

washingtonpost.com: Dean Says Faith Swayed Decision on Gay Unions, (Post, Jan. 8)

Steven Waldman: Thank you!

I think he was making a political point -- that Dean is increasingly TALKING about religion (which is true)

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Biddeford, Maine: Excellent article, Mr. Waldman. One question though: How do you think a candidate who isn't religious (say, agnostic) handle the religion question? Do you think that belief in God is a necessary element in a good candidate?

Steven Waldman: Good question! Personally, I'd want to know of an atheist or agnostic the same things I want to know from a religious person: how was your moral code formed? From where do you draw your strength in times of great crisis? What is sacred to you?

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Somewhere USA: The problem with Christians:

I quizzed many Christians on this matter, and, sadly, have yet to find one who will openly acknowledge that other religions and spiritual paths are ultimately just as valid as Christianity. A key justification they will give, for example, is that Jesus was the only son of god and that his body was not found in that cave -- proving the ascension.

It's one thing if Christians want to maintain a smug "holier than thou" attitude. It's another thing when they start wanting to impose their beliefs on the rest of us, our judicial system, and he Presidency, and tests of patriotism as though theirs was somehow the National Religion.

Are there any moderate Christian leaders who can hear or see this? Who can speak up to the extremists?

How might this play out in the election?

Steven Waldman: There are Christian leaders organizing politically on the left, though they tend not to get as much attention. Jim Wallis at Call for Renewal is one. Bob Edgar at National Council of Churches is another

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Cocoa Beach, Fla.: Why is it that the Democratic candidates seem to read what they want to in the Bible? They don't talk about how the Bible forbids homosexual behavior in the New Testament. They call the Bible a "guide" for life, but not to be taken too literally. My opinion is that Democrats pander to every negative special interest group out there. Abortion activists, Affirmative Action, pro-gay. I find it terribly interesting that Democratic candidates always go to black churches on the campaign trail. Republicans never do that. Republicans have their moral beliefs, and want to reach out to all Americans, not just the special interests Democrats are after.

Steven Waldman: Not sure selective reading of the Bible is limited to one particular party. It's a great national bipartisan tradition

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Portland, Ore.: I liked your article, but I sort of felt like it was written in a vacuum. I agree in principle that it's a good thing for candidates to talk about their faith, but what about their the zealot constituencies they are pandering to who would put a cross on the top of the Capitol if they could?

There are linkages beyond the candidates themselves which have implications.

Steven Waldman: President Bush has wrestled with this dilemma politically. He's wanted to show he's a person of faith for a lot of reasons, including the political one--to appeal to religious voters. On the other hand, he doesn't want to suffer negative fallout from the fact that some religious right leaders are very unpopular in the rest of the country. So he tends to talk about his religion is very soft, personal ways. For instance, you never here him expounding at length on homosexuality being a sin.

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Chicago, Ill.: I am fascinated on your take that talk about one's religious faith shows insight into a candidate's values, as opposed to talking merely about policy.

To me, the surer sign of one's real values are the policy positions and what one actually fights for.

Two candidates can both identify as Christian, for instance, and support entirely opposite slates of policies.

Steven Waldman: I think they're both important. In fact, I think I agree that past behavior on policy is more important. But sometimes things come up for a president that were unanticipated. What from Gov. Bush's tenure as Governor could we have looked at to assess how he would handle 9/11?

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Arlington, Va.: "To me, it's pretty important that we get SOME reading on their faith life, not because there's a "correct" answer but because I want to know the person is of sufficient depth that he/she has thought about the Big Questions, and not just tactics/policy."

See, there you go again. Why does some one have to be religious to have depth or to have thought about the "Big Question?" This is what I resent about this whole subject and the way religious people state it. I'm not surprised Bush is a black and white thinker, that seemed pretty clear to me all along. I also think there are plenty of "religious" folks like Pat Robertson who seem to be incredibly immoral. I think equating depth and morality to religion is appalling.

Steven Waldman: I said it's important that we have some reading on their faith life, not that it's important that they have faith. As I noted in answer to another question, I think an agnostic or atheist could have a compelling answer to these questions too. But they SHOULD have to explain

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Rockville, Md.: Still hoping to hear more about Dean and the bike path, but in lieu of that, what's Beliefnet? Is it a religion and politics site?

Steven Waldman: Beliefnet is the leading multifaith religion and spirituality Web site. We're not affiliated with a particular religious organization but rather try to help people meet their own spiritual needs as THEY define them. We have commentary, message boards and even some devotional tools like prayer circles, guided meditations, interactive devotionals. And we also cover religion and politics a lot. www.beliefnet.com (Thanks for asking!)

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Greenbelt, Md.: You state that voters should make up their own minds on divinely-inspired policy, but how? When a politician cites God as his or her leading policy advisor, the intention is to make criticism of their policies a criticism of God. Other than heresy, how can one possibly challenge a President who claims divine inspiration?

Steven Waldman: Personally, if a candidate said they were making their policy decisions based on God's instructions, that would worry me, in part because of the reasons you said. It's the difference between God providing strength, and policy advice.

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Orono, Maine: Mr. Waldman,

It seems to me that Cal Thomas is not mocking Mr. Dean's decision to raise his children in a home in which the parents believe two totally different things. In any event, I would like to know how you or Mr. Dean would answer questions and explain the differences that the two religious beliefs bring up when your children ask them.

Steven Waldman: We've told our kids that Mommy is Christian and Daddy is Jewish. They go to Hebrew school and have Jewish heritage but we also teach them about Christianity and they say the Lord's Prayer. It's actually been easier than expected. The two faiths obviously have a LOT in common. We focus on the similarities. We don't ignore the rather significant differences -- i.e. the divinity of Jesus -- but believe that's particularly issue is one they're going to have to decide for themselves when they're older.

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Geneva, Switzerland: Do you think there is some truth to the belief that America is becoming a dangerously fundamentalist nation guided increasingly by religion in its foreign policy as other nations particularly in the Middle East?

Steven Waldman: I actually don't think fundamentalism has been a big part of the country's foreign policy. However, I think it was a HUGE mistake for President Bush to allow his most prominent Christian supporters (i.e. Franklin Graham) to attack Islam without contradiction. Bush has tried to balance a bunch of constituencies, and done so by being both personally tolerant but turning a blind eye to extreme rhetoric among his allies

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Bayonne, N.J.: Does big business favor Christianity, and if so, why?

Steven Waldman: Nah

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Boston, Mass.: The questioner from Los Angeles just made the same error that you write about in your article, essentially viewing religious faith as a set of political principles and watching for "flip flops."

Catholic politics who are pro-choice do not have "an utter lack of understanding of their faith." How dare this person say that? These people are making political decisions on the basis of a set of beliefs that includes secular principles like tolerance and scientific knowledge.

The Rev. Bob Drinan was a pro-choice Democrat and a Jesuit priest who represented Massachusetts for many years before the pope required him to leave office. Did he "misunderstand his faith?"

Steven Waldman: Catholic politicians have a special problem because they're really not supposed to making individual judgments on all moral/religious issues. They're SUPPOSED to be following the church on these things. So the question for them is not whether they're bad people, but "bad Catholics"

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Steven Waldman: Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful questions. I hope you'll check out our Web site, www.beliefnet.com

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