Election 2004: Both Sides

Peggy Noonan talks with Vice President Dick Cheney (top). Donna Brazile teaching a course at the University of Maryland. (The Washington Post)

With less than four weeks to go in the closely contested presidential election, the race is still too close to call. Both sides are feverishly courting undecided voters, rallying their base and aggressively pushing their candidate.

Democratic strategist Donna Brazile and RNC consultant Peggy Noonan, two political veterans who have spent time both inside national campaigns and as outside commentators, answered your questions and share their differing perspectives on the 2004 election, the candidates and the issues.

Noonan is a former speechwriter for President Ronald Reagan and the author of six books on politics and culture. She is taking a hiatus from her Wall Street Journal column to consult for the RNC through election day. She also does commentary for MSNBC.

Brazile is a senior fellow at the Academy of Leadership at the University of Maryland and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. In 2000 she served as the campaign manager for Al Gore's presidential campaign and is a regular guest on CNN's "Crossfire."

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: This question is for both women:
The conventional wisdom this week seems to be that as long as President Bush doesn't set the stage on fire, this debate will be a better showing for him. What do each of you think that your respective candidates need to do to get the upper hand here?

Donna Brazile: First of all, President Bush will not repeat the mistakes he made in the first debate. He will be more polished, more comfortable and more in command of the format. After all, he has a great deal of experience in speaking before live town hall meetings.

As for Senator Kerry, he must stay in command of the conversation, demonstrate strength and clarity on the issues and sharpen his message on the contrast between the two candidates.

Kerry clearly is in a better position going into this crucial debate.

Peggy Noonan: Hello everyone, Peggy Noonan here. I am happy to be here as part of Donna's comedy team, and I am ready to cook with grease. What does my guy have to do to get the upper hand this evening. I will be fancy and quote Dr Samuel Johnson: "Most men need more to be reminded than informed." President Bush simply has to remind the American people of Senator Kerry's 20 year record of backing every bad idea that has come down the political pike. Higher taxes? He's for em. Higher spending? Let's go. A strong defense structure or a weak one? Let's go weak. Kerry has been wonderfully consistent in his career -- consistently wrong and consistently liberal. That's what we need to discuss in my view.

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Laurel, Md.: I've looked at a number of possible outcomes for this election, and a reasonable possibility is that Kerry wins enough states (including Florida, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Minnesota) that give him a victory of 270-268. But it's possible that the northern district of Maine goes for Bush, giving him one more electoral vote, producing a 269-269 tie, and giving the vote to the House, who would choose Bush.

Now if that madness happens, what kind of electoral reforms do you think would follow?

Donna Brazile: After the 2000 debacle in Florida, I sure hope this election is decisive. But, if your scenario occurs, I believe more electoral reforms, including reforms in the electoral college will be considered. As you know, voters in Colorado will make this decision this Fall by deciding if they can choose electors on a district by district basis versus winner takes all.

Peggy Noonan: I hope Colorado votes no on their electoral college referendum. But like Donna I really hope this election is decisive. America doesn't need another election like 2000. Democracy is big and vibrant but it is also delicate in its way, and depends for its health on the trust of the people. A series of scandals and disputes will be very damaging to us, and to us in the world too. So: here's to Bush by five.

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Donna Brazile: Good Afternoon, I am pleased to join Peggy Noonan in this forum.

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Bedford, Tex.: Does John Kerry really believe he can create a safer America by relying on Global approval? The willingness to act, inspite of popular or global opinion, is what a comnander in chief must do. Does John Kerry really think that 90 minutes of tough talk can obscure a soft defense position of 20 years?

Donna Brazile: I welcome an opportunity to respond to this question on Kerry's viability as a strong commander in chief.

What John Kerry said at the debate was "no president through all of American history has ever ceded and nor would I the right to pre-empt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America. That passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're ding what you're doing."

Kerry has been a strong defender of our military and troops. I trust that as President, he will keep this country safe and secure by providing our troops what they need on the battlefield and not just another "handout" to greedy military contractors.

Peggy Noonan: Go Bedford! Yeah, the 'global smell test' or whatever Kerry calls it is just not adequate to a great nation. and it is an expression of Kerry's essential ambivalence about the place and role of America in the world. We are a leader -- we have a conscience -- we have a right to act independently when need be. A duty too.

Donna Brazile: Sounds like Bush and Cheney's views are similar to Senator Kerry's views on this important subject.

According to the National Security Strategy published in September 2002, the Bush Administration doctrine states: "We will always proceed deliberately, weighing the consequences of our action. To support preemptive options, we will: coordinate closely with allies to form a common assesment of the most dangerous threats."

Cheney in 2002 said the following with regards to invading Iraq: "I know that he will proceed cautiously and deliberately to consider all possible options to deal with the threat that Irag, ruled by Saddam Hussein, represents. And I am confident that he will, as he said (referring to President Bush) he would, consult widely with our Congress, with our friend and allies around the world before deciding on a course of action."

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Durham, N.C.: Is what Bush calls his conviction and resoluteness becoming a negative for him, with more people seeing it as stubborness and an inability to admit when he is wrong?

Donna Brazile: President Bush has the right, like Senator Kerry, to make up his mind and come to conclusions in the manner that suit their personalities. My personal view is that the President has shifted his positions and views on many issues, including the creation of the Department of Homeland Security and the establishment of the 911 Commission. (Note: I can list others)

It's one thing to try and "protect one own's image" but it's another to show common sense when new facts and information is brought to life.

Peggy Noonan: Great question. I think Bush is unique in that when he considers the data, talks to all hands, confers, ponders, and decides, he sticks with his decision no matter what the polls and the columnists and the chatterers say. This takes guts. You almost have to be president to know what kind of guts it takes. He is not in my view inflexible -- he's very flexible on tactics, on moving up elections in Iraq for instance or changing the way the Iraqi military/peace forces are trained. But he won't change his mind on the mission unless he thinks he made a mistake. and he thinks he is right on Iraq: and in any case, I'm sure he thinks, as many of us do, that there's no way 'round it but through it. We are there and we must win.

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Ashford, Conn.: For both of you: Does the administration's spinning of a report that states that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and no facilities or plans to produce them into a justification for the war pose some further risks for their credibility?

Peggy Noonan: Look, we have been through Iraq up down and sideways. I do believe -- and if I did not believe this I wouldn't be here -- that the Admin did its very best to judge the intelligence it had, and make the decision it made. We should all remember I think a fact that rarely gets stated: No modern president wants to go to war. Ever. Presidents are political animals. They know the people want peace and prosperity. Americans never want war. When they feel they have to fight it they know how and they do good. But war is the least predictable thing in all of human life -- war takes on a life of its own -- it is the reason Lincoln said -- paraphrase -- 'I freely confess that events have controlled me more than I have controlled events.' No president wants war. When he goes into one he has reasons, and they are big, and real.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: What do you think are the major successes/failures of the Bush campaign strategy?

Peggy Noonan: I think we get a clearer sense of successes and failures of strategy when we look back -- when the campaign is over and we all have a time to sit back and say, "That was a great moment," or "Boy, that wasn't smart." For now I would say Kerry's biggest mistake was turning his entire convention into I Was In Vietnam. I think at this point we probly all agree on that. President Bush's high point was a well planned and coordinated convention with many different voices defining in their own unique way what it is to be a Republican. Powerful, and persuasive I believe.

Donna Brazile: The Bush-Cheney re-elect Committee made a huge mistake in trying to frame this election a refrendum on Senator Kerry's record and not a conversation about the future. Therefore, I believe reality is finally catching up with their constant spin that "things are getting better." Where? Jobs? Iraq?

This Administration cannot defend the last four years. That is why they constantly attack Kerry's record.

Can they defend four years of stagnant wages, not one net job, and more Americans losing their health care?

The economy is 7 million jobs short of the Bush Administraiton prediction.

I think it's time and appropriate to ask one of Ronald Reagan's famous questions: Are you better off today that you were four years ago? Sadly, as the polls indicates, the American people will answer no. It's time for a new direction and a fresh start.

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Boca Raton, Fla.: Ladies:

What effect do you think the September employment report (96,000) jobs will have on the candidate's responses tonight?

Peggy Noonan: Interesting. The number of new payroll jobs is up -- by 96,000 if I remember correctly -- and my first thought was that after the pounding of the storms of the past few months that is very very good news. I know many hoped for higher numbers. But the trendline -- quarter after quarter of economic growth -- continues. And after the burst of the Clinton Wall Street bubble and its recession plus 9/11, I think steady growth is saying something.

Donna Brazile: Once again, Bush will try to say the problems with the economy is not his fault. This Administration has a problem in admitting failures and they cannot fix the problem because they refuse to admit their own mistakes.

The American people want a President who can craft an economic program that actually creates good jobs.

Kerry has a plan to create jobs, cut the deficit in half and help the middle class.

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Cortez, Colo.: I am so tired of both parties exagerating "talking points" up to but not quite lying. For instance, It was bad enough that the administration ignored all other opinions, and did not stabilize Afghanistan before starting a new war in Iraq, Kerry and Edwards don't need to imply that Osama Bin Laden was just a few minutes away from being captured.

I for one have never thought President Bush is stupid but if he doesn't understand Edwards and Kerry's votes (87 billion, Iraq war) by now, one wonders if maybe he isn't bright enough to be president. It is no good to just say that "that's politics". Among people I know, it is one of the major reasons why they say they don't vote.

These are just two examples--there are many more. Both parties brush off questions and slide into their slogans. Republicans seem to be worse than Democratics. This greatly reduces any meaningful diaglog in these debates. Please, if either of you have any influence in these campaigns, tell them to stop it.

Peggy Noonan: Well, I don't agree with many of your assertions, but let me ask a larger question in response to your beginning comment, on 'spin.' I would like you all to answer this, as politically sophisticated people. Should political parties have talking points? Should they send folks out to say a particular thing in a particular way after, say, a debate? I ponder this. In one way the answer is yes: the senior officials of a campaign have to set the template, have to declare a way of looking at an event, in this case a debate. But does anybody believe spin? That is, do viewers think they are getting an honest and serious statement, or do they think it's just, well, spin. An odd thing here too is sometimes campaigns come out and tell you exactly what they think, honest and straight and true: and it is dismissed as mere spin. It is a complicated question I think, although I perhaps am not speaking of it in its broadest or most interesting aspects.

Donna Brazile: As you can imagine, campaigns are a way to have a dialouge with voters on the importance of issues and the impact of public policy on their lives. Well, today, it's like a beauty contest and I cannot agree with you more on "spin, the game, and talking points."

After the 2000 campaign, I was left with the impression that the election came down to likability and personality -- two attributes that the then Governor of Texas had in great supply. But, Al Gore, who was often thought as cool and aloof, walked away with the popular vote. Go figure!!

The truth is: this election is about you the voter. It's about your future, quality of life and safety. We need to engage more citizens to get involed and take an active interest in shaping public policy and keeping elected officials more accountable. Yes, it's time to vote. It's our voice. I hope you will be heard too.

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Brookeville, Md.: Daniel Moynihan once quipped that "everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts". The facts are that we have created record deficits and spending, we have not created a net increase in jobs, and that there were no WMD and no ties with Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Please explain to me, with facts, why George Bush has earned a second term.

Donna Brazile: I agree with your assesment about the failures of leadership at the top and the lack of accountability.

President Bush, Vice President Cheney and the GOP majority in Congress are out of touch with reality.

Bush has taken us from a $5 trillion surplus to a $3 trillion deficit, and they have no plan to win the peace in Iraq.

They (GOP leaders in Washington, D.C.) are blinded by ideology and should be defeated at the polls on November 2nd.

Peggy Noonan: You are right. And here are some facts. President Bush led us steadily and with sureness after 9/11, fought and won a historic and, according to the historians, unwinnable war in Afghanistan. And now tomorrow Afghanistan votes, and God bless them, and 40 percent of those voting will be women, and God bless them too. Iraq is an ongoing story that America can win if we stick to it. Even if you think it was not geostrategically the right move you would agree, as even Kerry does, that Sadam had to go -- and you might agree that Iraq was certainly a morally defensible action. Bush inherited the burst of the Clinton bubble, and then 9/11 -- and yet he had the guts to cut taxes, help boost economic energy, and has now 11 quarters of growth. This guy is solid. He's like Truman in '48 -- he's like Truman in lots of ways, but like Truman in '48 you might find on Nov 2nd that nobody's for him but the people.

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Washington, D.C.: Since religious faith has become such a character issue, shouldn't there be a frank discussion by each candidate as to where they stand? Personally I feel George W. Bush's melding of church and state, the appearance that his religious beliefs drive his political ones, are a negative.

Peggy Noonan: Religious belief is always a rich area of discussion -- I see no reason to dodge or avoid it -- I think we gain insight into others when they speak of their beliefs, so talk away I say. I would very much hope Mr Bush would remind us all tonight that the Constitution of our great nation guarantees freedom OF religion. It doesn't guarantee freedom FROM religion. This is an issue in America, has been since I was a young woman. Discuss away, I say.

Donna Brazile: In many areas of the country, religion is used as a wedge issue and I would hope that the candidates discuss it tonight. I am tired of conservatives who brand liberals as Godless. It's untrue. Liberals, like conservatives, has strong convictions, but we don't believe we can force people to share our religious faith and views. It's time to get back to the notion of separation between church and state.

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Washington, D.C.:
Ms. Noonan,

Regarding your earlier response that Pres. Bush's job tonight is to attack Sen. Kerry's senate record:
Don't you believe that someone who has been the president of the US for four years should be able to run on his own record?

Peggy Noonan: Oh yes. And I do believe the general conventional wisdom that an election featuring an incumbent is a referendum on that incumbent. Bush talks about his record ALL the time ALL over the country -- you can't miss it -- and it's what the first debate was about. He has a record -- but so does Kerry, and it is a particular kind of record, and people need to be reminded of it. Remember: People do what they know how to do. Kerry knows how to be a Massachusetts liberal Democrat. It has implications. We should all think about 'em.

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Washington, D.C.: Regarding Kerry's liberal voting record... I'm confused. Shouldn't he have voted on the liberal side of issues as he was elected by the people of Massachusetts to represent them? He represents a liberal electorate, right? How is it wrong to represent the wishes and your constituents?

Peggy Noonan: Hmmmm. Would you say of a conservative candidate that the poor guy can't help it, he comes from a conservative state? Pat Moynihan, whom someone here mentioned, represented the People's Republic of New York, and yet he managed to speak the truth so well and so often. Was it Edmund Burke who said -- paraphrase -- the political leader owes his constituency his independent and honest views, and not only repeated bows to theirs.

Donna Brazile: It's time we stop discussing labels and focus on Senator Kerry's leadership in the U.S. Senate and the plans he has outlined for the future. He has led on the environment, on education and in supporting veterans.

As a Senator, Kerry continues to represent the best in American values: tolerance, faith, freedom, fairness and opportunity for all.

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Jacksonville, Fla.: Although September's report indicates a 96,000 gain in jobs -- I believe the overall unemployent rates have also increased. Would either of you care to comment on each candidate's position re: American jobs that are being outsourced overseas?

Donna Brazile: According to House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, we lost another 18,000 manufacturing jobs last month. The AFL-CIO reports that 12,000 more information jobs have been lost. Both AT&T and Bank of America have announced massive lay offs. The fact is, this Administration has no plan to create good paying jobs.

Over 13 million Americans remain jobless or underemployed. Also, over 200,000 Americans gave up looking for work last month.

Good jobs are going overseas and Kerry has promised to end tax breaks to corporations that export American jobs.

Peggy Noonan: The key here is not to 'stop outsourcing' it is to help America have the kind of business climate where outsourcing is a choice no good American executive wants to make.

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Charlotte, N.C.: Is tonight a must win for the President? If he loses tonight, on top of the WMD report, the Bremer comments earlier in the week, not to mention last weeks debate performance, won't Kerry see a big boost in the polls next week?

Peggy Noonan: I don't think any debate is ever a must win for any candidate. I was in the White House in '84 when the boss blew his debate with Mondale. Reagan won in a landslide a few weeks later. But debates do have a purpose: they do give us a feel for each guy, a sense of him, a picture of him in our minds that we might not previously have had. And that can work to well or ill for any candidate.

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River Edge, N.J.: If George Bush wins on November 2, will that signal a realignment that will cement Republican control of the House and White House for the next forty years, similar to what Democrats enjoyed prior to 1994?

Peggy Noonan: I hadn't thought of this, but doubt it. Another way of saying it: We live in fluid, dramatic times. History can turn on a dime. The Senate is going to stay Repub in my view but it's still going to be close and with certain Repubs joining Dems on various issues the administration does not have the numbers it needs to get a judge through...
But I'll tell you...I do think America is a more conservative country than the polls ever show. A lot of people do not self identify as conservatives, and some would be shocked to think of themselves as conservatives, but I often think if you went to them with a list of issues, and the conserv and liberal position on those issues, the conserv position would usually win -- and by a lot.

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New York, N.Y.: Donna -- I rarely agree with you, but I think your great and Peggy you are always tops to me. Do you think Bush will bring up Kerry's past statements on foreign policy tonight? In particular, his 1971 testimony before Congress where he said communism could not be beat and his 1988 speech at the DNC where he said that America needed to be brought out of the moral darkness of Reagan?

Peggy Noonan: Thank you! Thanks all of you. Great talking to you. I think we are nearing our end here. I think Donna's great too, and yes I certainly hope Bush brings up Kerry's past statements on foreign policy tonight

Donna Brazile: Kerry's statements are fair game, but so is Bush's record in office. Tonight's debate should give voters leaning toward Kerry more comfort on where he would lead the country in the future.

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Bloomfield Hills, Mich.: Peggy, unlike Truman, the "Buck Stops Here" has been removed from the Oval Office. Can you cite where Bush has taken responibility for anything wrong that has happened since his election?

Peggy Noonan: Bush knows the buck stops with him. And when we all vote on November 2nd we will all know it too. And we will rehire him or fire him. The buck always stops in the Oval -- and should.

Donna Brazile: We need more time to list the failures of this Administration. But, for most Americans, the decision to take this country to war, with no plans to win the peace and on faulty intelligence should top the list.

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Seattle, Wash.: Why aren't the candidates allowed to ask each other questions? It seems to me that that would elicit a far more interesting and engaging debate. The moderator in the VP debate, in particular, did a particularly bad job of asking tough questions. It seems that if the candidates asked the questions, we'd learn more about the candidates and the questions would be tougher. I'm assuming one side or the other thought this would not be in their interest when devising debate rules -- which side? Why?

Peggy Noonan: I'm with you. I think debate rules should be more fluid. I think they've gotten so constricted in part because of the theatrics of Clinton and Gore in 1992 and '96 -- creeping around the stage, trying to scene steal, etc. Remember when Gore tried to creep up on Bush as he answered a question and sort of go 'boo!' And Bush shot him that look? I know it's silly stuff and unworthy...and yet at the same time it sure was revealing. So I like a fluid open debate.

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Arlington, Va.: Ms. Noonan, I'm a long time Bush supporter, but I have to admit, his performance in the first debate was nothing short of an embarrassment. As the pundits have said (and not just the ones on the left, either), it appeared as though this was the first time he'd been exposed to any real criticism of his policies, hence his visible irritation at being questioned. Additionally, he rarely holds press conferences or does interviews with any serious media (sorry, Dr. Phil), and usually only speaks to Bush-friendly crowds. Do you think it's a good idea to keep a president so insulated, and is there anything the Republicans are doing to make sure there isn't a repeat of the first debate?

Peggy Noonan: I think the Bush campaign -- and Bush -- are convinced he must raise his game and bring it to Kerry. I'll tell you something I have noticed in my decades watching politics. Every serious incumbent president has to be pulled into campaigning for reelection. For three years, every day they have been getting up and trying to push the ball forward -- in the world, at home. They've been governing. They've been seeing the data no one else is seeing. They've been meeting with heads of state in key meetings and seeing and hearing things no one else gets to observe. They want to continue doing that serious work -- they usually don't lust for the the campaign trail -- and at some moment they have to get their head handed to them in a bad poll or a bad appearance or a bad debate before they put their complete focus on campaigning. I think that probly happened to Bush last week.

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Toronto, Canada: As a Kerry supporter living in Ontario (which polls seem to indicate is not in play this year), I don't think Kerry will necessarily be in great shape, even if he cleans Bush's clock tonight and next week. The reason being is that the GOP runs far more effective negative ads than the Democrats do.

I think Bush can put the campaign away by doing well in the next two debates, but I don't feel that way about Kerry. His bench strength just doesn't seem to be as strong. Take last August, for example.

Peggy Noonan: You mention campaign ads. I do think one of the biggest things that has happened in the campaign has been commented on but not fully appreciated. And that is the impact of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth's ads -- most especially the one with the POW wives talking about the impact on the POWs of Vietnam when John Kerry came back called them war criminals -- beheaders, rapists. Those POW wives, old now and white haired and with faces like angels -- it is very hard to come away from what they said and feel John Kerry should be our commander in chief.

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Western United States: A question for each of you to answer:

What do you do to relax and get away from politics? In particular, when do you most connect with other people and just enjoy -- simply -- being alive?

Having answered that, what does your field/jobs look like from there? What are your detached observations about the state of politics in our country and your role in it?

Thank you.

Peggy Noonan: Getting back into politics has been very relaxing for me. I had the best day yesterday -- a speech to Reps and Dems at the Kravis Center in Fla, then door knocking -- going door to door -- in West Palm, a pretty Democratic district. I gave out literature and asked everyone I met to consider joining the Republican party, which needs their help. The people were fabulous -- gracious and generous with their time. We talked to kids and old great grandmothers. I wanted to kiss their hands. I love democracy -- I mean it has some bliss to it. Otherwise I don't find it hard to relax. I don't think the world is on my shoulders, I think I have a job to do and must try to do it, God is in charge, do your best, then go to a movie.

Donna Brazile: As a child, I enjoyed politics. I have been active since the age of 9 when I learned how to campaign door to door to persuade adults to register to vote. Now, I had a motive. The kids in the neighborhood wanted a playground.

We won the election and the elected leaders allocated money for a playgound in my neighborhood.

When I am not working, I like to spend time with friends and family. Chip is my new dog and he's great. I spend lots of time gardening and reading when I am not watching cable news.

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Kendall Park, N.J.: Donna Brazile, I've enjoyed exchanging emails with you in the past and your responses here highlight how on top of the game you are, ready with facts and insightful analysis. It's much appreciated. Studies show almost 60 percent of Americans STILL believe Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. Do you think this is the media's fault, the Bush administration's fault or both? Or are Americans just not very sharp this year?

Donna Brazile: It's both. When the Administration began their drum beat to war, it was with a loud roar. The echo chamber was in full swing and it built up to a chorus.

It will take time for the facts to settle in, but the American people will learn the whole truth.

Thanks so much.

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Galesburg, Ill.: It seems to me that holding a debate on a Friday night is a good way to get very low viewership. Was this done intentionally? I know the Bush Campaign originally balked at this town-hall style debate. Was it a condition of theirs that it be held on Friday or was it already scheduled for this date and time slot?

Thanks.

Donna Brazile: It's my understanding that the Commission on Presidential Debates came up with the dates and the formats. The candidates negoitated on ground rules, staging, etc...

I believe there is considerable interest in this debate.

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Jonesboro, Ga.: Ms. Brazile: What do you attribute the fact that the nation as a whole seems NOT to be offended at the twists and turns of the Bush administration's inability to accept blame -- that is, admit that they made a mistake in leading us to an unnecessary way. Could it be in the genius of their political sophistication or that the Democrats are unable to mount a credible opposition.

Donna Brazile: Thanks for your question. Years ago, I learned something that has kept me cool and calm. The American people are slow to anger, but when they get hit, as in 9/11 -- they're ready for a fight. Just remember, on 9/11, a solid majority of Americans bonded with the President and many of those fellow citizens are still with him today.

We have a lot of work to do in spreading the truth. Help us out.

thank you

Donna

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Washington, D.C.: Peggy and Donna,

Why is the Supreme Court not being mentioned during campaigning? To me, it's the biggest issue not being discussed. The next president will decide how the court will vote for the next 25 years. This is huge! Why doesn't the American public know about this!? Abortion, gay rights, women's rights, etc, are all up for grabs!

Donna Brazile: This is my last question. Just this week, the Democratic National Committee launched a national program to "Save the Court."

Please go to the website and check it out.

Donna

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