Sesno Reports: Press One for English

PANEL:

Ted Leonsis, vice chairman, America Online

David Albo (R), Virginia House of Delegates

Ana Sol Gutierrez (D), Maryland House of Delegates

Denyse Sabagh, general counsel, American Immigration Lawyers Association

Mark Krikorian, executive director, Center for Immigration Studies

Eleanor Holmes Norton (D), D.C. delegate to Congress

FRONT ROW:

Michelle Malkin, syndicated columnist

Audrey Singer, visiting fellow, Brookings Institution

Mariela Melero-Chami, Department of Homeland Security

Imam Yahya Hendi, Muslim chaplain, Georgetown University

Alberto Avendano, editor, El Tiempo Latino

Suzanne Devlin, police chief, Fairfax County

Other Participants:

Jim Farley, vice president, WTOP Radio

Frankie Blackburn, director, IMPACT Silver Spring

John Porter, principal, T.C. Williams High School

Tsehaye Teferra, executive director, Ethiopian Community Development Council

HOST FRANK SESNO: Oh, you can't miss it, the new mosque, your favorite neighborhood Thai restaurant, the new Asian market just down the street. Spanish, Urdu, Vietnamese. In our schools, our offices, at the mall, it's the story of America, the immigrant story. And now it's the story of our region too, creating new opportunities, challenges and debate.

What's happening here? How are these changes affecting our culture and the face of Washington? Will they bring us together or drive us apart? We'll dial up some important questions ahead on "Press One for English."

ANNOUNCER: Here, once again, Frank Sesno.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Thank you very much. Thank you. Washington has become a magnet for immigrants drawn by our high tech and service sectors, among other things. In the past few years, hundreds of thousands have arrived from more than a hundred countries. They've brought their talents, their work ethic and a rich cultural diversity.

But there are some problems and complications too - undocumented workers, schools where more than 50 languages are spoken and homeland security, which brings a host of new concerns. Maryland's Governor challenging political correctness says multiculturalism is bunk and that we have to rediscover the melting pot.

We will hear from the Governor tonight. In our discussion we will examine what's at stake and what's ahead. Joining me now in the WETA studios a terrific panel and one with a great deal of experience: Ana Sol Gutierrez. She [is a member of] the Maryland House of Delegates from Montgomery County, and welcome to you.

Thank you very much for being … Joining us now in the WETA studios is Denyse Sabagh. She is the General Council for the American Immigration Lawyers Association and an immigration lawyer herself. Welcome.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Thank you.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Also, we've got Mark Krikorian. He's the Executive Director for the Center for Immigration Studies. Once again, welcoming back to our program D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming in. Our special guest tonight is Ted Leonsis, Vice Chairman of AOL and shall we say the son of Greek immigrants.

A success story in his own right. Good to see ya. And Ana Sol Gutierrez. She's from the Maryland House of Delegates. A democrat, we should say, from Montgomery County. And finally Dave Albo. He's the Virginia House of Delegates, a republic from Fairfax County.

Again, welcome to you all. And … But I'm not-I'm not going to start with the panel. I'm actually going to come over here, and I'm going to ask Audrey Singer to stand up please. And you have been putting this region under a microscope for some time, examining who's coming and where they're coming from. What have you found?

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: Well, the region has changed tremendously in the last two decades. Very high growth in the foreign born population over all. In certain areas it's higher than other areas.

HOST FRANK SESNO: I wanna show-we wanna go to a graphic here that we made with some of the numbers you and the Census Bureau have come up with to show just what's happened. Look in this area-in the Washington area from 1970 when we had about 127,000 foreign born to 2000 and doubling-nearly doubling in that period of time from 1990 to 2000.

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: That's right. In 1970 the region was virtually all native born. Maybe about four percent were foreign born. By 2000, one in six or 17%.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Is the-is the trend continuing?

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: The trend is continuing. We see an increase … The great of-the rate of growth is not as fast because there are a lot of immigrants here now. But, we are still receiving a lot of immigrants.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And it's largely a suburban phenomenon, another thing we wanna talk about too tonight.

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: That's right. Immigrants are not only in the suburbs but they are bypassing the central city, bypassing the District and moving directly into the suburbs.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Let's take a look at where they're going to in the suburban phenomenon. If we look by county and by region, we see Arlington, Montgomery, Alexandria, Fairfax, Prince George's. The District of Columbia only about 13%, but in Arlington County more than one in four are now foreign born.

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: That's right. And this is an issue of the inner core of the region. We see a lot of immigrants settling close to the District, but not necessarily in the District, although immigrants are still moving into the District.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Audrey Singer, thanks very much. Back to our panel here for just a moment. Dave Albo, is this something you welcome?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Sure. I mean, what made our country great was immigrants who came to this country, worked hard and became Americans. I think it's fantastic. But with it comes, you know, a lot of difficulties.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What…Such as?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, I mean, every time a per-a kid comes to one of our schools in Fairfax County it costs the county over 2,000 extra to educate that child. And we're happy to do it, but this is not free.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Congresswoman Norton, why not the District? What's happening there?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Well, immigrants are like everybody else. They go where the jobs are. The job growth in this region has been in the suburbs. Also, the District is a relatively small, compact city. And I tell ya, our Hispanic population has crowded into the nooks and cranny of that city.

They didn't, in fact, bypass the District; they had to if they wanted to spread out with their large families-often large families. Had to find their way into the suburbs. And immigrants come here looking for work. Where was the work and where is the work in this region?

HOST FRANK SESNO: So it's all Ted Leonsis' fault? Four-letter word: J-O-B-S.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: I think, first, I have a problem with it being called "foreign born." I think everyone in this room traces their roots back to someplace else. And I think that what we've tried to do at American Online is hold a mirror up to the country. And when I look in the audience, it's what I see.

It's mostly a vibrant celebration of diversity. And that's what we're seeing in our workforce. We are recruiting people to come and drive our company forward, and it just so happens that it's a disproportionate, fast-growing segment that are being born or educated outside the United States.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What's changed in this region, and what's changed in the country?

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Well, immigration is often said to be different today than it was a hundred years ago. And the fact is it is different, but not the way most people think. Usually people talk about immigration being different because the immigrants themselves are different. Because rather than coming from Europe, they're now coming disproportionately from Asia and Latin America.

But really, the immigrants aren't that different. They're still coming from agrarian backgrounds, from pre-modern societies coming to a new country. What's different is our society has significantly changed.

HOST FRANK SESNO: How has our society …

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Because a century ago …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Because of this, because of America Online, because of technology, that kind of thing?

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: A large part of it is that, but it's not just technology. A century ago immigrants came from villages with horse manure in the streets. And they came to New York and there was horse manure in the streets. I mean, it wasn't that different from what-the lifestyle wasn't that different.

Now they're coming from villages that are very much like Shtetls in Eastern Europe or little villages in Sicily were a hundred years ago, but they're coming to a society that is radically changed, where there's no connection with the rural past, where people are much more highly educated.

We're a modern society and that makes the dis-the distance, if you will, the social distance between where the immigrants are coming from and here much greater than it's ever been.

HOST FRANK SESNO: I see Leonsis over here kind of … You disagree with that somehow?

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: Well, I would say the universal language is more HTML right now than it is English, and that most technology companies are more interested in basic talent than skills. And we're seeing a lot of those skills being driven more in the foreign born or external universities than they are right here.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But that technology component, if you will, of immigration is a very small part of the overall [inaudible].

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Absolutely. Who defines immigration in our country are our large Hispanic population. They come here looking for whatever work they can find. They obviously are not all of the immigrants, but, in fact, when you think about the growth of immigration in this country, you look at the numbers with about half of them being Hispanic, then this notion …

And I understand, for example in this region, El Salvador is first, but Korea and India are second. So, I do understand what you mean. But we ca-but still, the largest number are from Latin America and we gotta face that and understand what it means in our country and not try to define who the-who the so-called foreign born are by the very small number of very well-educated people that we bring here to work in your shop because we're not educating enough of our own people to do it. And that's what I want us to do.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): And I think there really is…It really is, I think, sad when we try to put all immigrants into one bucket. I can just say about Latinos, we're from 26 different countries, different cultures, music food, histories. And so to even paint all Hispanics in the same way I think is ver-is very wrong.

HOST FRANK SESNO: I wanna go up here and I wanna call on a fellow by the name of Jim Farley who is the News Director at WTOP Radio. Now you have a challenge here because you're the news radio station for the region, but what we're hearing is we have a very diverse and-audience. They speak a whole bunch of different languages. How do you get through to all at once, or do ya?

WTOP NEWS DIR. JIM FARLEY: It's the universal language of getting stuck in traffic which kind of helps. We've seen research that says that people who are non-English speakers use all-news radio to learn the language. It's a great way to do it. And we're trying to serve all of those who are starting to learn a little bit of English. We wanna reach as many of them as possible.

HOST FRANK SESNO: But you've also put some things on your air in Spanish, haven't you?

WTOP NEWS DIR. JIM FARLEY: Yes. And we ran into a surprising reaction. A client, Choose to Save, wanted to put an ad on half in English, half in Spanish. [inaudible].

HOST FRANK SESNO: And you did that? You did that?

WTOP NEWS DIR. JIM FARLEY: Yeah. We said, "Fine." We got over two dozen really angry phone calls for people who were angry that we did that. Very angry people.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And they were angry about what?

WTOP NEWS DIR. JIM FARLEY: Oh, "Don't go there. This is an English-speaking country. We don't want bi-lingualism. Let's not make this another Quebec." They were really angry people. It was a surprise.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. Thank you, Jim Farley. We'll be back to you. I wanna call on this gentleman here who … Tell us who you are.

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: Alberto Avendano, Publisher of El Tiempo Latino.

HOST FRANK SESNO: [inaudible] So this is a newspaper for Latinos?

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: It's a newspaper for Latinos. Newspaper has been in the market for 13 years. So we've been two decades and a half, which coincides with the boom of the Latino [inaudible].

HOST FRANK SESNO: Do you slice of … In the ethnic press do you slice off the Spanish-speaking audience and take them away from WTOP, The Washington Post and other places where they should and could speak English?

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: We are now a Washington Post Company publication. By the way …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Take that!

FS2: [Inaudible] join them.

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: And the answer …This … The answer is we taking away from the Washington Post, definitely. And …

HOST FRANK SESNO: By design.

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: By design. And it is what we are supposed to do. I want to say something. The Hispanic community, as Ana Sol said before, is a very sophisticated body of people and backgrounds. We are here not only to-because the Hispanic media is here to stay and the Hispanic population is here to stay, but one of our roles is also helping these newcomers to transition.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay.

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: But we are here to stay and the language is here to stay.

HOST FRANK SESNO: The language is here to stay?

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: Oh, yes.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What does that mean?

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: That means that the so-called multicultural … He didn't say … He said "bunk" but he said "crap" also, Mr. Ehrlich, the Governor Ehrlich. This multi-cultural issue is here to stay. You cannot call my kids immigrants. You call them Americans. And let's start differentiating between Latinos in the U.S.A. who need a lot of help and U.S. Latinos.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. Let us-let us use that as a point of departure. The Governor of Maryland had his comments, and he called, as you said, multicultural bunk and crap. We went and we talked to the Governor. We wanted to hear his explanation. What did he mean by that?

And we started by asking him whether he regretted using those words. Here's what he said.

AUDIENCE LISTENS TO TAPE

All right. So those are the fighting words of the Governor. [CLAPPING] Now… And I hear some people applauding. Now we went to talk to Doug Duncan whom he mentioned, Montgomery County Executive who may be running for governor too himself. And here's what he had to say.

AUDIENCE LISTENS TO TAPE

Mark Krikorian, are they saying the same thing?

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: They're talking about two different things, in a sense, it seems to me. I mean, because what Governor Ehrlich seems to be saying is that newcomers ought to be welcomed, ought to be embraced, but they have to become us. They are, in fact, coming to a new place. They're joining our society and we have certain rules and habits and customs and they need to adopt [inaudible].

HOST FRANK SESNO: Your county, your state.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): I think we're absolutely talking about two different views. And one is my-Montgomery County where we have to take a-I think, a wonderfully tolerant, embracing view. We practice it. We … It's part of the way that we treat people. Our government doesn't …

HOST FRANK SESNO: But is it about coming together and assimilating, or is it about maintaining separate identities? Isn't that what this is about?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): No. I really think that it's being used in a political manner. And I think it's being used by our Governor to exacerbate differences.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Nah, the Governor didn't mean anything more except you don't go to France and then live in Little America. You go to France and you join the French society.

2CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Oh, for goodness sake.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): And here what he's saying merely is when you come to the United States, we love to have ya. You're wonderful, great people, but come on in and assimilate. Learn English.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: I mean, history is repeating itself. Can I remind the good Governor, who refers to his dramatic past, that when his ancestors came here, like all immigrants, like all newcomers, they tend to, as a step toward transition, live together, appreciate their own heritage, the Jews, the Irish, the Poles, the Greeks.

None of them came here and said "assimilate me." The first thing they said was, "I wanna find …"

HOST FRANK SESNO: Wait. But …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Let me get this out. I wanna find a neighborhood and a language that's just like me. Now that's what they did in the first generation. And then they learned that in or-that Americanism is an overwhelming force. If you wanna make money, if you wanna, in fact, get the most that this country has to offer, that force will take a hold of you and then you will, indeed, assimilate yourself at your own rate.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: The Congresswoman is right. You're right, except that the difference now is that in the past and today people voluntarily, when they're newcomers, they wanna stick together. I mean that's a natural, normal thing. I've lived in a foreign country. I know what that's like.

The question is what does the broader society demand and expect of you. One of the reasons people came out of their ethnic enclaves in the past is because the broader society insisted that they do that.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Yeah, but that takes time.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: What the Governor is talking about multiculturalism is institutionalizing those kind of informal enclaves rather than allowing them to disappear naturally over …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Let me-let me bring in-let me bring in another voice here for just a moment. We've got with us today Michelle Malkin, a Columnist. And you actually wrote a column about this very issue. Your point?

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: I did. I said that the current Governor and the former Governor were guilty of a random outbreak of political candor, and I applauded it.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What are you applauding?

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: Well, I'm applauding the fact that there are people who are honest enough to say that there are problems. And the fact is that the difference between past immigration experience… My parents were immigrants. They came here 30 years ago. They were expected to learn English and know English before they entered the country.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And you think that's the way it should be?

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: That is the way it should be. The problem …

HOST FRANK SESNO: So you… Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. You think that people should know English before they even come here?

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: But that's how it used to be. And I think it helped-I think it helped allay a lot of problems … in the past. The problem now is that we have very fierce anti-assimilationists lobbying this country that holds the hands of people who break the law in the first place to get here.

And that is a distinction that I have yet to hear here, a distinction between people who get in line, who pay their fees, who submit to criminal background checks and medical checks before they enter the country versus people whose first act on this soil is they break the law.

I never hear the phrase "illegal alien" anymore. It's "undocumented worker."

HOST FRANK SESNO: Denyse Sabagh, your take on all of this.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Well, I would disagree that people had to learn English before they came to the United States. That never was the case.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Never been.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, now wait. But there are-there are plenty of stories… Of course people come here [inaudible] speaking the language, right?

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Clearly… You know, clearly many people come without speaking the language. And statistics show that when people come to the United States that they do wanna learn to speak English and they try to learn to speak English. And typically the first generation has a harder time learning English than the second generations or the third generations.

So, that's the first thing. In terms of people that come to the United States, they come with their talents and their ideas. A hundred years, 200, 300 years ago, believe me, there was probably a lot more illegal or undocumented immigration then than there is today.

And, frankly, there is less percentage of immigrants in the United States today than there were in 1910. In 1910 there was about 15% immigrants. In this… Now there's about 11% of immigrants here in the United States.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What do you mean by multi-cultural?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Well, this is a completely undefined term. And essentially it comes out of the educational enterprise. It does not come out of the neighborhoods. It comes out of the way in which people approach-are teaching various cultures now largely in college and you-and who have really-who really embrace multiculturalism.

Tend to be young, educated people who when they get to campus are feeling a little isolated …

HOST FRANK SESNO: So it's a …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: …and-and-and, you know, and-and…

HOST FRANK SESNO: …it's a social thing?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: It's-it's-it's a cultural thing.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And it… Okay. Ted Leonsis.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: I think we're living in a world that's much more empowered and that people can very easily move through this membrane of "I'm Latino. I'm an American." We see it in households right now where people have immigrated. They speak Latino. We even have launched a service for them that's all in Spanish, all in-in …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Now some people would say that you're part of the problem if you're doing that.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: No, actually …

FS2: He wants to stay in business.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: …it's good business. You know, in America last year more salsa was sold than ketchup. And so I'm shocked and I respect the Governor, but I'm shocked to hear the political incorrectness of it. Cause it's bad business. And that in this new empowered world you should be able to toggle back and forth.

And how I see multiculturalism, it's your choice. When you wanna be very Greek, which my grandparents would be, they can be. When they wanna be as integrated and as American, they can be that as well.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. We've got a comment from the audience here. Please.

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: (Inaudible).

HOST FRANK SESNO: And tell us who you are.

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: Imam Yahya Hendi, Georgetown University. Well, I wanna say this. I think America is made of different immigrants. And our strength as a nation lies within our diversity and our ability to celebrate differences amongst us. I think here we are mixing between two terms - assimilation vis a vis integration.

With assimilation you're asking newcomers to give up everything to become something they don't want to be. With integration you allow them to become fully Americans yet able to keep something to feel different.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Imam, is it not what the Governor is saying, though, is that for those who come to this country as those who have come before them, they should be considered and consider themselves Americans and speak English and be part of an American culture or does that such a thing not even exist?

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: I think there is something called American culture. And if you wanna live in America, you have to be proud of being American. I have to integrate within the American culture, however, without being asked to give up who I am as an Arab or as a Muslim. Like American Muslim women asked to give up their, maybe, head cover or children being told, "You cannot speak Arabic in the school" or things of that sort.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. I wanna come to… Go ahead.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): I'd like to ask this gentleman, in order to fulfill that idea do you think the tax payer should have to print out DMV forms in 128 languages?

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: Well, I think, you know, integration is a two-way road. The hosting nation has a lot to do to feel-to make the newcomer feel at home. But at the same time the newcomer also has a duty to fulfill to make himself feel at home and make the hosting nation feel that he belongs to that county. It's a both way road.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: I would say… I would say yes. It's not that expensive and that the majority of new jobs are being created by small businesses and the majority of small business jobs are being created by this multicultural community. It's not coming from big companies.

And so that's a small price to pay to print some forms in different languages.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): And it's a safety issue.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: And if you put it on-line, it'd be even cheaper.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, let me show you something. You say it's a safety issue, you talk about hosting governments, you talk about the costs. Here is something from Montgomery County, Maryland. It's called "Home Guide to Emergency Preparedness." This is in English, okay? This one's in Spanish. This one's in Vietnamese.

This one's in Cambodian. This one's in Chinese. This one's in French. I feel like I'm back at school here. This one's in Farsi and this one's in Korean. Should governments have to pay for that?

2MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Well, it's on the internet, like you said. I think if you are going to deliver the service that you want, you wanna make sure that your citizens are prepared for an emergency. Yet you don't know if that person who speaks Farsi may be exactly the person that needs either help or needs to be able to provide information in an emergency.

That's going to be very important. Why not be able to outreach, especially because now it's easier and easier with technology to have that information be available.

HOST FRANK SESNO: But does it take the pressure off to learn English?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Yeah, it takes the pressure off. But you gotta remember everything costs money. We just in Virginia went through this big budget battle where we had to raise taxes and if my constituents find out that we just raised a half cent sales tax to provide free interpreters or seven different forms in five different languages to everybody at the DMV, they're just not gonna be very-they're not gonna be very pleased.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: The question I think here is do newcomers have a right to expect these materials in Kamir (ph.) and Farsi and Korean, or do we as a community decide on a case-by-case basis? "Okay, in this instance, fire safety, yeah, we'll spend some money translating these things cause that's important."

"But in these other areas it's-we're not gonna do it and immigrants just have to-have to deal with it."

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: How… But how do you make the …

HOST FRANK SESNO: The District of Columbia is passing a language act that's going to require it to provide these things in different language. But is that excessive and expensive or is that common sense given the complexity of the population?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: I believe that the few pennies that we're talking about to get something printed in another language would become a subject of controversy and debate when I think of all the, excuse me, Governor crap we really do, in fact, pay for. And you would think that…

And you would also think that somehow the society was… There was an abundance of translated documents in the society. Why do you think we passed the law saying that you better translate some of this. I'm on the Homeland Security Committee and do you really think that we wanna prepare only English-speakers for the possibility of a terrorist attack for goodness sake.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But this is …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: And then in the three trillion dollar budget of the United States of America that ought a-that ought a matter?

2MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But this is the question. Do we, as a practical matter, decide in this instance "Okay, we're gonna translate this. In this instance we're not" and realize what the costs are and spend the money-and spend the money in some instances …

FS2: We do. That's what we do.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Or, on the other hand, do we make it a legal requirement, do we create a right to have materials in whatever language you wish? That's what I would find abominable and really does send a message that you don't need to join us when you physically relocate to our country.

HOST FRANK SESNO: The right exists in the District or is about to, and in Maryland …

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): But it's not a right.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: It's not a right.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): It's not a right. Nobody is saying there must be a right for anybody to have whatever language they want.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Well, that's what the…

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): No. It is…

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But President Clinton signed an executive order that says exactly that, and President Bush has done nothing [inaudible].

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): This is not a matter of rights.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Let me …

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: The point is it shouldn't be.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): You have to have language access capabilities when providing a service.

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: Just to inject reality, even the Bush Administration-the federal government is mandating that certain counties in Florida and in Texas put their ballots in foreign languages like Vietnamese …

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Called the "Voting Rights Act."

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: …and Hispanic. In fact, there's one tiny little community in southern Florida where nobody speaks Spanish, but to comply with federal law they've printed the ballots in Spanish. We've gone to crazy extremes. And you're just wrong when you say it's not a right.

It is. It has become a right. I've got non… And I live in Montgomery-I live in Montgomery County. I am in your District and [inaudible].

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): The Voting Rights Act is based on …

FS2: Let's talk about [inaudible]

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Census population.

HOST FRANK SESNO: One at a time. Finish up please.

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: In Montgomery County non-citizens are allowed to vote. We're talking about the fundamental right, privilege, that American citizens hold dear being extended to people who are not even citizens in this country.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: And non-citizens are allowed to pay taxes in Montgomery County [inaudible].

HOST FRANK SESNO: Now we could-we clearly could have this debate all night long. But whether you like it or not, whether we wanna pay for it or not, people are coming and continue to come from all over the world. And they are Salvadorian and they are Argentine and they are from Ghana and they are from Vietnam and they are from Yemen and they are from Ethiopia.

We went out and we met with two families to show just how different the stories can be to introduce you to two different people and places. Here it is.

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: …immigrants as well as undocumented immigrants, and a range of skill levels that is really wide range …

HOST FRANK SESNO: And, again, we saw that in this piece too. Right.

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: … from the high, the low and the middle.

HOST FRANK SESNO: From the neuroscientist to the security guard. Take a look at where people are coming from and what the top 10 countries of origin are for our population here. As you can see, and I think Delegate Norton you mentioned this earlier, tremendous numbers from El Salvador, but the next is descending order Korea, India, Vietnam, Mexico, China, Philippines, Peru, Guatemala, Bolivia. Mark Krikorian.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Well, we often talk about immigration being much more diverse than it was in the past. But related to what Audrey said, the immigrant population here is relatively more diverse compared to the rest of the country. But overall the problem is insufficient diversity.

I mean, an enormous percentage of the immigrant population comes from Spanish-speaking Latin America, and that's something-that kind of concentration in one ethno-religious group-ethno-linguistic group really hasn't happened before.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What's the economic impact of all of this from a business point of view? There's all sorts of debate about this.

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: I think it's positive. You know, I think this is like oxygen. Get used to it. And I was sitting there marveling that the same thing happened with my Dad. He immigrated from Greece to work in the mills in Lowell, Massachusetts. And, you know …

HOST FRANK SESNO: How was his English when he came to America?

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: He didn't speak it. Didn't speak it. And it's a great country. And I… You know, shame on us for, you know, us wanting to close the door behind now because we're here.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Is that what people are saying, close the door?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): No. People are saying they recognize that the United States lets more people in than any country in the entire world. But the problem is the illegal people, like the gentle lady said, that as soon as they come in they're breaking the law when they bypass the immigration policy and immigration laws. And what we need is …

HOST FRANK SESNO: What do you mean, as soon as they come in they're breaking the law?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, if you're an illegal alien, the moment you walked across the border you've broken your first law.

HOST FRANK SESNO: But a million people are coming every year …

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): That's right. And it's [inaudible].

HOST FRANK SESNO: … legally.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, the people that come in legally, God love 'em and bring 'em on in. I love to have 'em. It's the illegal people, they are breaking the law.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: The distinction isn't quite as clear, though, as people would like to think. The fact is that each year about one quarter of all the people that we describe as legal immigrants are, in fact, illegal aliens already here using the immigration system to longer their status.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Denyse Sabagh …

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): The fact is we've blurred the difference.

HOST FRANK SESNO: …how easy is it for people to come into this country?

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Well, it's not very easy at all for people to come into this country. People who immigrate legally have incredible challenges to come into the United States. They have long waiting lines. They have incredibly complex immigration laws.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And it's gotten harder since 9/11?

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: And it's gotten harder since 9/11 because of the implementation of the laws. The security advisory opinions keep the process longer and longer and longer.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What's wrong with that, though? Here we are, and this is the Nation's Capital, right? We live in the National Capital region. We've already been attacked.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: There's nothing wrong with having national security as a paramount concern, but what there is something wrong with is a system that can't be functional. So what you have is a system when they say, "National security, we're gonna protect you." You know, you all feel good about that.

I feel good about that. I wanna be protected. But when they say to me that they can't do a security clearance on somebody for a year, I have a problem with that. It's like if that guy's a terrorist, don't you think I wanna know about it more than a year? I wanna know about it right away.

They say, "Oh, no. It takes us this long." And the reason it takes us this long is because they don't have a system in place. They basically throw it out to the different intelligence agencies. The intelligence agencies don't respond. They don't have anybody following up.

And they go, "Oh, well, geez, there's really nothing we can do about it until we hear back."

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, we have somebody to ask about some of this. If I can ask you to join us, Mariela Melero-Chami , with DHS, Department of Homeland Security, the Office of Citizenship. Is what Denyse Sabagh just said true, that there is no system, that the waiting list is for a year and it's unnecessary delay?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: Well, I will like to say that there is a system, a system that welcomes one million legal immigrants into this country every year. Have we experienced delays since 9/11? I think the world changed and we had to change the way that we did, indeed, process and the way that we managed the process of welcoming immigrants into this country.

But the fact remains that one million legal, permanent residents of the United States have been welcomed into this year for the last couple of years. So the system must be working.

HOST FRANK SESNO: That's a lot of people.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Oh, it's a lot of people. I don't think all million of em are coming in each year, though, cause they can't get in. They can't get in that fast. They don't. You all don't move that fast.

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: I think it's a-it's a-it's a-it's a well-documented fact that we continue to be a welcoming nation, that we continue to be a nation of immigrants. I think it's been consensus tonight. And we do continue with a very strong commitment to ensure that those that come are those that are entitled to be here.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Let me-let me-let me [inaudible] you here for a moment because we've all heard about the delays. We've heard about the stor… In that piece that we just showed you, the family from the Sudan, the woman's mother there has been in a refugee camp in Uganda for three years now waiting to come to this country.

And she tells us that she has not been allowed in because of post-9/11 delays.

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: And chances are that she is correct, particularly in …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Three years in a refugee camp?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: In certain areas …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Should she be reunited?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: She should be reunited and chances are that she will be reunited with her mother. We do have …

HOST FRANK SESNO: When? How long will that take?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: We do have a cap that we have to conform to every year, and it's a congressional mandate, of 70,000 refugees at missions a year. We must admit that during the last couple of years we have not been able to reach the cap. But we also have to take into account that there are some very dangerous areas out there.

And that particular area in Africa happens to, unfortunately, be one of them.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Your response.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Well, they haven't reached the cap. As a matter of fact, they were sued about the fact that they hadn't reached the cap because of the fact that there's a lot of people out there that are waiting in line to come. And so if they only have a certain quote each year and they don't reach it, they don't-they don't add onto it.

So a lot of people that would have been eligible to come, had they done their job they could have used it. But because they didn't do their job, they couldn't. And so there was a lawsuit that was brought against them because of this and now they're starting to use their numbers. But until that point they hadn't been able to.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But, Frank, I think we're misidentifying what the problem here is. Usually… And this is people on the left and right and everybody identifying the problem as bumbling incompetence on the part of the immigration bureaucracy. That they're the agency that can't shoot straight. That sort of thing.

And, you know, far be it for me to defend the immigration service, but let me defend them. The fact is the immigration authorities are choking on immigration. They have the mismatch between their resources, and what they are expected to do is enormous.

A former immigration commissioner actually looked at all of the things they're mandated to do, and broke out the costs per unit, if you will, and added up how much they would have to-we would have to spend on immigration. And it was many, many times, five, 10 times more than we spend on immigration today.

The fact is we under-promise-we over-promise and under-deliver in immigration. And we need to cha-we need to fix that mismatch.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): I think it's wrong to think that that is the problem. I really think that we've changed our immigration policy and we changed it to the-to the worse. Before, there were options. There were processes by which appeals could be brought forward.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, you're not saying that that's just disappeared now, though.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Oh, they closed it. I think our immigration lawyers can say, "Here"… Today… This morning… Listen to this. The J2 visa is being considered in Congress to be eliminated. What's the J2 visa? It's for doctors who are foreign born that have studied here and been able to get certified and they can get a J2 visa to work in the-in the rural areas where there are no doctors.

Now because of homeland security they're saying we're gonna eliminate that program. Now tell me who-what doctor will have studied in their home country, come here, studied, learned the language, willing to do the work in a rural area, and maybe he's a terrorist. Now somehow I think we are making the equivalent of terrorism to immigrants, and that has got to stop.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well… And one of the other things that's … It ra-it raises a point, though, and that is the role of law enforcement in monitoring and following, as part of their job, those who are here. You actually sponsored some legislation which passed in Virginia on this-in this regard.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Right. I'm Chairman of the Criminal Law Subcommittee for the Virginia Legislature so a lot of this stuff comes through our committee. But, you know, I think kind of equating… It's not like these laws are meant to affect immigrants. The fact is the laws are put in place to protect people in the United States.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. And what are you giving Virginia police the authority to do?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, right now immigration is a federal violation. So if a police officer sees… I'll give you an example. If a police officer sees a gang `member that he busted, convicted and got deported, and he sees him walking around the neighborhood, a local and state police officer has no authority to do anything to that person.

Cannot even detain him until in Virginia on July 1st he will be able to.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And you're-and you're saying that he should have that ability.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): To detain him until the federal authorities…

HOST FRANK SESNO: Right. Now there's another side to this. It's a very interesting side. And when we were over talking to Montgomery County Executive Doug Duncan, we asked him about this. And he feels passionately… Take a look at what he had to say.

AUDIENCE LISTENS TO RECORDING

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. Now I'm gonna dial 911 to settle this. We've got the Acting Fairfax County Police Chief Suzanne Devlin here. Thanks very much for coming in. Where are you on this? You're wearing the uniform. You have to do this job. You're out on the streets.

If you see a gang member who you know is-was deported, do you wanna get involved?

FAIRFAX CTY. POLICE CHIEF SUZANNE DEVLIN: Certainly. I think all of us want to get the people who are violating our laws, who are problems, who threaten our community off the streets and back, perhaps, where they left. But I think our challenge is to balance the civil rights of our people, democracy, against the challenges of this new homeland, this new terrorism that we're confronted with. And it's a delicate balance.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, Doug Duncan says if you're out there in your uniforms busting people for immigration, they're not gonna trust you and you're gonna lose a community you need and people who need to have a relationship with you. Is he right?

FAIRFAX CTY. POLICE CHIEF SUZANNE DEVLIN: That's certainly part of the challenge, but our first stop isn't usually to walk around and ask people for their papers. And I don't think that's Delegate Albo's interest either. He's simply giving us an added tool that if we are confronted with someone who already is a criminal-who's a known criminal, that we have the authority to detain them and to move them over to immigration to process them back out of the country.

It's … That's a good tool, you know. So I think there's a …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. Let me come back to DHS here for just a minute. Office of Citizenship, you want this kind of cooperation? You want local police forces across the country being able to this?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: Well, actually, since 1996 we've had as part of the immigration reform law a section that allows us to enter into Memorandas Of Understanding with a state such as for example Florida and Alabama, Colorado. And the legislature in Colorado is contemplating something similar where we enter into an MOU with state and local law enforcement officials.

And that Memorandum Of Understanding is very well defined, very structured …

HOST FRANK SESNO: So you want them in?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: Well, we have worked and we continue to work with local law enforcement under the umbrella of Section 287 of this particular law.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. Thank you. Imam Hendi, how do you feel about this?

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: Well, I …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Please stand up.

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: I sort of don't feel comfortable with that. I-I-I don't… And I hear this from my own community that feels targeted only because they are Muslims. They feel that this law is meant to target Muslims and Arabs because of their ethnicity and because of this language.

And it has happened. There are thousands of Muslims in U.S. jails whose relatives don't know where they are now, who don't have any ability to get lawyers or attorneys, which children don't know where they are. This is a big issue that we have to speak about.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Delegate Albo, what do you say to Imam and his concerns?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, what you do is what Captain Devlin did in Springfield when she used to be the Director over there. She brought police officers into the immigrant community. They got to meet these people on a regular, friendly basis and develop confidence between the police force and the citizens.

And the immigrants wanna catch the bad guys too. They came to the United States like this gentleman who came from Ethiopia who was being tortured and terrorized. He came to the United States cause he wanted safety and peace and law and order. And that's what I think this bill does, and the police approach that Captain Devlin have can solve that.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): It opens the door for profiling.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: De-linking ordinary law enforcement from enforcement of the immigration laws comes out of very, very long experience. The kind of experience that… For example, in the District of Columbia it's difficult to get people to come forward with information at all.

We've gotta create an atmosphere in your community where everybody feels that she can walk up to law enforcement officer and tell that officer anything that she knows.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What about the case that we just heard …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: And that, of course… That goes exactly in the opposite direction.

HOST FRANK SESNO: But that-that… What about something like that? If a cop sees somebody who's been deported, part of a gang … We just had a terrible killing out in Herndon, Virginia, gang-related killing at a high school, right? What about that?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: The fact is that if you've got somebody who's committed a crime he's going to be deported, that's not what we're talking about. Look. Let me tell ya what I'm gonna call all the crooks in Virginia. That not to worry. They're gonna be picking up immigrants in Virginia and spending valuable taxpayer's dollars on picking up immigrants and looking for immigrants.

Your back to where we were 20 years ago. Shame on Virginia.

HOST FRANK SESNO: But this is a straw man. The fact is not ... The fact is not that police are gonna go around and say, "Hey, you're an illegal alien. Show me your green card." What we're talking about is police officers who are now prohibited… They will be fired if sitting in their …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: That's not what you're talking about.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: …if sitting in their patrol cars they see someone who's been deported and [inaudible] re-entry …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: That's not what you're talking about.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Yes, it is. That's the case.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: As far … No. The implications …

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Re-entry after deportation …

HOST FRANK SESNO: I wanna give …

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: The implications-the implica-the… Excuse me. The implications really go-the implications really go to how cops find crooks. Cops find crooks cause people in the community tell them who the crooks are. You are-you are putting a gun at the head of law enforcement generally when you do this kind …

HOST FRANK SESNO: David Albo, it's your legislation. It's your state we're talking about. Last word on this topic.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Last word, if you read the bill, it allows police officers to detain people who have been-committed a felony and have been deported and are somehow, I don't know how, but they're somehow back in the neighborhood. That's all …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): It's all limited to …

HOST FRANK SESNO: Front … One frontline is at the border.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Uh huh.

HOST FRANK SESNO: One frontline is at the border. We talked about that in some of the immigration procedures now. Another frontline is law enforcement. Home land security, who are we? How do we protect ourselves? But there's another, even more important, frontline and that's the schools.

Because that's where the young people congregate and that's where they learn. Right? We've got a principal with us here from T.C. Williams. John Porter. Welcome.

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: How are you?

HOST FRANK SESNO: I'm great. How are you?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Fine. Thank you.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Tell us about your school. How long you been there?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: I've been principal for 20 years. I've been in the system for 35.

HOST FRANK SESNO: In Alexandria.

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: In Alexandria.

HOST FRANK SESNO: How have you seen it change?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: We have changed dramatically. Our demographics have changed dramatically over the years with the larger foreign born population, particularly in the last probably 20 years since I became principal.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So what's the profile of your school now?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: We are about 32% foreign born, about 45% African American and 23% white.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And what kind of special challenges does this present you with?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Well, I think the challenges are many from the standpoint of we're educating kids and in today's world, particularly with No Child Left Behind, our responsibility is to make sure we provide that education for everyone that comes through our doors.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Now literacy is an important thing that we hear about a lot, as far as what the schools are teaching. You have to teach not-English to some of these students?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Correct.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And to their parents?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: We work with their parents also, but mainly our dedication's to the students first.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And are you maintaining some kind of separate track for these kids?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Well, no, but students that come in first, depending upon their language skills, will go into our English as a Second Language Program at some of our beginning levels and work their way, if you will, into a broader curriculum, at the same time becoming familiar with the surroundings of an American school working in some regular classrooms.

And as they become more proficient with the language, they will become-their experience will become broader in regular classes.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Now let me ask you this. Let me ask you this question [inaudible]. Do you really think that the stu… You have 50 languages represented…

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: About.

HOST FRANK SESNO: …in your school or so, right?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER:Correct.

HOST FRANK SESNO: You were telling me you actually did some intervention between Eritrean and an Ethiopian kid some years ago when the civil war was ongoing [inaudible].

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Well, we didn't have to. They took care of it themselves.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. But the point is-the point is you've got a big, wide world in your school.

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Correct.

HOST FRANK SESNO: How is it possible for other students to learn in the midst of 50 languages and all these other things?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Oh, I think it's-I think it's fairly easy. In fact, I think the experience the kids leave with as a result of this world experience really carries them much further in the world. I have students that leave and go off to college…

…and when they come back from college, they don't just say "I was well prepared academically but, Mr. Porter, I can move in and out of a variety of different groups, racial, cultural, international groups that many of my colleagues from other schools that have been fairly homogeneous do not have that understanding of". You know, they don't deal in the real world.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. And, finally, one last point on literacy and we're gonna dedicate this one to Ted Leonsis over there and something he was saying a moment ago. You're… You've got a very unusual program you're about to embark on in your pro-in your school with regard to computers and computer literacy.

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Correct.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What is it?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Each… Next year every student, grades nine through 12, that's one of our feeder schools [inaudible] we will all have lap top computers for every student.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Every student?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Every student.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And how are they going to be… Are they going to be wireless in your school [inaudible]?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: It is a wireless system that will be established and set up this summer.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And what do you want 'em to do with those computers?

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: Well, our hope is that as we become a little bit more familiar, they will become a very important tool for instruction within our-within our students when they're in our classroom because, as Mr. Leonsis said, that's become the international language.

HOST FRANK SESNO: That's the international language?

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: I think democracy isn't pretty and this is still a young country. That's a … It's a great country. And this-these are such small prices to pay to make this a better place for our kids. And the more technology we introduce, the less the discussions on "How much does it cost to print this" or "Geez, there's another dialect that we have to teach" or "There's more Ethiopians that are coming and they have a different way of speaking."

And that's the cost of democracy. And we-we-we live in this world where we're exporting our culture. You know, our intellectual capital is being pushed all over the world. It's a big infomercial. That's what we're doing. We're advertising America - the internet, cable television, satellite.

It's a big infomercial. And so we're getting good response rates. And so we have to be prepared for that and I think we are starting to embrace it. And it's good for our business.

HOST FRANK SESNO: But Albo, I must say, though, for all the things you've pointed out, there are many people who say, "It becomes very difficult to teach an environment such as this, where so many language are [inaudible]."

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: You know, I lived this with my sports teams… Don't laugh. We have Russians, we have Germans, we have…

HOST FRANK SESNO: Should we remind people what your sports teams are?

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: I own a hockey team, which is multicultural. And pretty simple the coach says, "You can talk whatever you want, but I'm speaking English". And the teams that adapt do better and the teams that don't don't win. And, you know, they find a way to self-improve and get there.

HOST FRANK SESNO: I wanna come back over to Michelle Malkin here for just a minute. Compelling argument here.

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: What's the argument?

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, the argument is that young people will take it onto themselves. They will learn. That technology is the unifying language. And that maybe some of this is much ado about nothing.

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: Yeah maybe, but on the other hand we can talk about all the positive, wonderful benefits, and that's a good thing, celebrating diversity, multicultures, etc., etc., but what is lost? There used to be a tradition of civic education in this country where all the kids in the public schools, no matter what their background, no matter what their nationality, learned about the core history of this country.

HOST FRANK SESNO: You think that's been lost?

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: I think it has. I mean, we've got this eminent scholar, Samuel Huntington from Harvard, who has posed a basic question about who are we. And the fact is that a lot of our institutions and our traditions are Anglo-Saxon and Protestant in nature. And we've totally lost and forgotten that.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Well, we've got a few people who are … jumping out of their seats. Go ahead.

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: Yes.

HOST FRANK SESNO: [inaudible].

ALBERTO AVENDANO, EL TIEMPO LATINO: Yes. Sometimes we forget that… Reality is what we have and we don't attack reality. We cope, we manage reality. We have this community… Sometimes we forget about the economic [inaudible] of our area because of immigration. We don't… We forget that we have Hispanics, Latinos in Iraq with no American passport dying for this country.

And we forget all these things. What's going on? They speak Spanish and they have another culture, yes. But, listen, immigrants, and especially newcomers, are about family values.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. Quickly let me move around.

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: You know, I have a daughter who is seven years old. She knows the National Anthem by heart. She speaks Arabic at home, English outside. She's very proud. Actually, she knows more of the Bible-the Christian Bible than she knows of the Koran. And she's American, yet immigrant. So she can speak [inaudible] language.

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: Does she go to public schools?

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: She goes to public school. And also Islamic school.

COLUMNIST MICHELLE MALKIN: Where did she learn the National Anthem?

IMAM YAHYA HENDI: Actually, at the Islamic school.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Maybe we're getting somewhere here, but maybe I'm just getting confused. Go ahead.

T.C. WILLIAMS HS PRINCIPAL JOHN PORTER: I think that one thing that may be lost in the comments that have been made, in order to graduate from a high school in Virginia, and I presume in most states, you cannot not learn what is required by the state to learn. And so the history, if you will, the government, the English must be learned in order for that to take place.

That doesn't mean that you lose or you have to give away what you've brought to this country from another country. I think we can do both. Can't we just get along, I guess, is the feeling…and embrace both?

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. Let me come to this gentlemen here and ask you to join us. You're from Ethiopia. Tell us your name.

TSEHAYE TEFERRA: Tsehaye Teferra, Ethiopian Community Development Council.

HOST FRANK SESNO: And you are part of resettling people and-and-and reaching out to those who join you. What do you make of this debate?

TSEHAYE TEFERRA: Well, I want to make, you know, a couple of comments. Number one, people were talking about what [inaudible] in the case of immigrants and so on. They are forgetting that immigrants are paying taxes. If you look at [inaudible] more immigrants are putting, you know, money to the federal government, to the state and so on.

So that will basically… If you take Arlington, where every fourth person is from somewhere, every fourth person is paying taxes. So what is the problem with terms of serving these people with that [inaudible]? That's one. Now people were talking earlier about this foreign language and so on.

What is America? America is basically people who came from Europe, English, Italians, Germans and so on. So we have kept on adding every other nationality. That is what is America. So you cannot call German, you cannot call Spanish anymore a foreign language. It is an American language.

It is spoken here by people who are here. So those are the two things. Now the third thing I want to comment on the…

HOST FRANK SESNO: The third thing I'm gonna have to ask you to make really fast.

TSEHAYE TEFERRA: Very fast. In terms of the children learning in schools here, it's not a challenge. It's a blessing. People are coming with diverse cultures, with diverse language…

HOST FRANK SESNO: And they want to be American?

TSEHAYE TEFERRA:They are American. And, you know, it is not a challenge. It's a blessing. That is how we have to see it. If you want to make a problem out of it, then we call it a challenge. If you want to make the positive out of it, let's call it a blessing. Diversity and unity.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. Thank you very much. Eleanor Holmes Norton, I think you wanted to jump in here. Mark Krikorian. Let me get you guys involved.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: I'll tell you, I-you know, it pains me when I hear any echoes of [inaudible]. In the 19th century when the immigrants came to this country, they incurred, you know, massive discrimination. No Irish and Italians need apply. I have to tell you something. We learned something from that experience.

We learned that the na-that our country is much better off if we find a way to welcome people, understand that they're gonna be like they were in their country for a while and that, in fact, in time our country is so magnificent, they will join us in every way. That is my faith.

And I don't think we have to try to outlaw multiculturalism because we are afraid people won't wanna become an American.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Denyse Sabagh.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Well, I can speak from my personal experience of representing immigrants for the past 27 years. And I have to tell you that I have never seen such patriotism from my friends, from my family, from people I know. When people get their American citizenship, they are so excited.

I have been to parties where the American flag is there, where the red, white and blue is there. They've studied hard and they are so glad to be Americans. And they have become Americans. They… Do they maintain their culture? Absolutely. Do they maintain their language? Absolutely.

We not a zero sum game here in the United States. We are a nation. We are diverse. So consequently we have people that wanna be Americans. When you talk about immigrants and you talk about, "Well, do they really-you know, do they have to have their own culture or are they trying to be divisive", I must tell you that everybody I have ever represented is so glad to be here, they are glader than if they were born here.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: Our nation's motto is e pluribus Unum, from the many one. That used to refer to the colonies. In a sense we now talk about it referring to ethnic and religious and other groups. We've placed an enormous amount of emphasis over the past 30 years on the e pluribus part.

And, frankly, we need to start placing a little more emphasis on the Unum.

HOST FRANK SESNO: How would you do that?

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: A whole variety of ways. For instance, just let me pick one out of the-out of the air on an issue that we haven't talked about much. Dual citizenship. When an American-when a foreigner becomes an American citizen, he's no longer a foreigner. He is now us at this point.

Nonetheless, we don't prohibit dual citizenship because we sort of allow it. We don't… One of the things we should do, for instance, is prepare a list twice a year, four times a year of every person from different countries who have now become American citizens, present it to that country's embassy with a certain amount of flourish and fanfare and say, "Here are these former citizens of yours who are now us".

"They are no longer your concern. Have a nice day." That kind of emphasis on assimilation in Americanization is something that we've gotten too far away from in the past generation.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Montgomery County on board with that?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Dual citizen? I'm from El Salvador.

HOST FRANK SESNO: [inaudible].

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Of course!

HOST FRANK SESNO: [Inaudible] dual citizen?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): El Salvador…

HOST FRANK SESNO: Why do you wanna be a dual citizen?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): It's not… You… We… The United States is not gonna legislate for the world. El Salvador has a law that says, "If you were born in El Salvador, you will always be a Salvadorian".

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: The question is…

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): When I-when I because a U.S. citizen…

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: …do you act on this. Do you vote in Salvador? Do you use a Salvadorian passport? And if not, then-I mean, that's not up to you. It doesn't matter. But many people…

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Then it's not an issue, is it?

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But it is an issue for a lot of people. There are…

HOST FRANK SESNO: I'm gonna turn [inaudible].

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: …people who have run for office in two countries at the same time.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Let us continue.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: This is…

HOST FRANK SESNO: I wanna continue the conversation with the focus on the future. I wanna come over to a guest here, Frankie Blackburn. Impact Silver Spring. Please stand up. That's the name of your organization.

IMPACT SILVER SPRING DIRECTOR FRANKIE BLACKBURN: Yes.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Talking about as people come looking at the future, engaging them as citizens and engaging them as active residents before their citizens. And sometimes that's quite complicated, isn't it?

IMPACT SILVER SPRING DIRECTOR FRANKIE BLACKBURN: Yes it is. I mean, what we're trying to do, though, is make sure that we understand that we're trying to recreate community, that we have been living here and engaging in the civic life. We have to learn from the newcomers as well. I mean, Silver Spring has dramatically changed where we live and we have a new community.

So we're trying to figure out how we help those who have not been in our-in our community work together with us.

HOST FRANK SESNO: How do ya? How do you do that?

IMPACT SILVER SPRING DIRECTOR FRANKIE BLACKBURN: Well, I mean, for example, my friend Daniel over here came from El Salvador three years ago, a lawyer. He and I both share a lot of common concerns around housing and schools. First of all, we've gotta get to know each other. We've gotta trust each other.

Then maybe I can share with him some of the strategies I've used around housing and schools and he can help me reach out to the Salvadorian population in Silver Spring and understand what their needs are. So it's a two-way street. We've gotta really focus on that.

HOST FRANK SESNO: The notion of civic engagement, the notion of involving these many citizens who are coming to this region is something that is actually taking shape in a rather formalized way. Can I ask you to stand again and tell us a little bit about it. This is… Is this happening at the federal level now?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: It is happening at the federal level. We have embraced this incredible vision and we have established an Office of Citizenship within the Department of Homeland Security. And it is our responsibility and, most importantly, a legislative mandate, to ensure that those individuals that are welcomed into this country are, indeed, also welcomed into their communities.

And it is an incredible task. We're going to do this with the connectivity of the minds and the spirit obviously in this room.

HOST FRANK SESNO: What is-what is this? What are you doing?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: We're gonna two things. The first thing we need to do is we need to welcome those legally authorized to be in this country, the legal, permanent residents that we welcome every year. We're gonna welcome them by giving them more than a green card and a thank you note.

We're also gonna give them a sense of what this community and what this country is all about, a nation of…

HOST FRANK SESNO: How are you gonna do that?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: …laws, a nation of principles. And most importantly, give them an orientation of where to go get a driver's license, where to go get a social security card. We're developing…

HOST FRANK SESNO: How are you-how are you conveying all of that?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: We're developing a new immigrant orientation guide. First ever done in this country. Bear with us. We're only 14 months old. But with the energy that you feel in this room I think we have a tremendous amount of work ahead of us that we're gonna be able to accomplish.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So you come-you move to Northern Virginia or Montgomery County or you step in the border and someone hands you a guide and says, "Welcome to America"…

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: Well, you first-you first…

HOST FRANK SESNO: "American 101"?

MARIELA MELERO-CHAMI, DHS: You first… Yeah. Why not? You first become a legal, permanent resident of this country. And, as we were talking about a second ago, why not have the federal government, why not have your local community give you a welcome guide that says, "Welcome to your community and let us show you how you can participate and engage"?

I think it's a terrific initiative. It's happening all over the country. All we're doing is just bringing it up an notch to the federal level.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Delegate Albo, specific engagement. What does the country do? What should the state be doing?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, I mean, the state should… A lot of this you can't… You know, government can't solve all the problems. I mean, you just can't pass a law and make everybody get along. You can't pass a law and make everybody speak English. (Inaud.) the government needs to do is make sure that we have a vibrant economy so that people can come here and become American for the same reason the guys came in Jamestown.

They came because they wanted to make a living and they wanted to make money and a better life for themselves. And that's what I think government needs to do in Virginia and elsewhere.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Looking down to the future, and a very practical question, would it be in the District of Columbia's interest to try to attract more of these newcomers? I remember Mayor Giuliani (ph.) when-at the time he was Mayor of New York when New York was coming-struggling out of its economic doldrums, he said, "You know what? We were delivered by our newcomers, by immigrants, because they brought so much economic vitality to the coun-to the-to the city." Does DC need more of that?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Of course, what happened in New York… In the '60s and '70s New York was losing population. And no big city wants to lose population. That's just what happ-what has happened to other large cities. The District of Columbia used to be 800,000 people when I was a kid growing up here. Now it's down to, you know, less than 600,000.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So should it be a priority?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Absolutely. Bringing more immigrants to the District of Columbia would be exactly what… It would take our tax base and expand it. It-it-it-it… The more people you have, the more people paying taxes, the more vibrant your city is. Come on [inaudible].

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: But as the-as the Congresswoman said, though, earlier, immigrants are people too and if 200,000 or more people have left the District who aren't immigrants, there's a reason for that. Iowa and Baltimore and Pittsburgh and other places have looked at this.

Immigrants is sort of a short cut to avoid dealing with the real challenges that have caused people to leave. If schools are a problem, if in Iowa the winter is too cold, immigrants feel all of those things the same way as everybody else does. So those are problems that when they're fixed, immigrants will then start coming.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Well, Mayor O'Malley in Baltimore has just announced a wonderful program that is inviting and actually helping in housing for new immigrants. He's inviting them to come and bring that vitality to their-to that city.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: And it's a cop out. That's the point. If people are leaving-if people are leaving Baltimore, there are other things that have to get fixed. This is a way of avoiding dealing with the [inaudible].

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: That's ridiculous. Look, first of all, that's ridiculous. The people came to New York without saying, "Before I come there, let me see what your schools look like". They came to New York, they enlivened the schools. When they come to a city, everything will go up because they'll bring pressure for the schools to improve.

So the whole notion is you've got to become, you know, like Fairfax in order to get immigrants is absurd. They come to…

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: You don't have to become like Fairfax.

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Yeah, please, we don't wanna become like Fairfax.

MARK KRIKORIAN, CIS: You can become like… Well, I'm from… I like-I like Fairfax, but you can become like Miami or LA. Those are not particularly… They're not like Fairfax, but the point is there's…

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Immigrants have made both Miami and LA what they are today.

HOST FRANK SESNO: I'm not [inaudible]. I'm gonna come back over to Audrey Singer for one moment, the person who studies the region and these questions more than anybody else. The future five, 10 years, what's it gonna look like in this region?

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: I think we're gonna continue on this trend. I don't see at the federal level immigration levels going down, and I think the local situation remains very attractive to immigrants.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So bottom line, get used to it. More coming?

AUDREY SINGER, BROOKINGS: Yes.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. There you have it. Open it up now for some questions from the floor and the audience. We've had an opportunity to talk about a great deal, a great many things here this evening, so now it's your turn for a few minutes. Let me start right over here.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Actually, I wanna make a comment.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Can you make it short?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right, you're on.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: America's claim to fame is…

HOST FRANK SESNO: Can you stand up for it? Tell us who you are.

AUDIENCE MEMBER:I'm [inaudible] with the American [inaudible] Asylum Seeker here in America. America's claim to fame, it's uniqueness comes from its being a post-national state where people come here and, you know, become one as Mr. Krikorian said. The challenge now is the… Before they used to come from Europe.

The kind of had the Christian background, if you will. And now they come from, you know, Africa, from Asia, from Middle East. And it is a little bit difficult or challenging, if you will, to become both a Muslim and an American in the case of the-because the predominant culture is Christian, if you will.

The values are as such. And that creates a problem. And… But I think overall Americas [sic] can conquer the world, if you will, through its generosity, through its tolerance, through its acceptance. And that's the-what we should celebrate.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So it is different? What's different? That's the…

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I mean, the claim that America is a post-national state is one of those things that we haven't quite decided yet. I mean, I'm not making the point that we're a post-national state. We are, in fact, still or need to be a nation state if we're gonna preserve who we are as the book title is.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. There's another question over here. Let me-let me come to this lady right here. I'll work my way over. Stand up please. Tell us who you are and go ahead.

PEGGY SANDS:Thanks. Peggy Sands. I'm a freelance writer. Write about immigration. I just was curious of all the people who are… And I'm married to an immigrant and I'm very much for im-legal immigration. But the problem is the illegal. And I wonder if all of you talk about this opening the borders to everyone.

There doesn't seem to be any limits to what many of you are talking about. You all sound like libertarians. Do you believe in an immigration policy? And if so, do you believe that immigration policy should be enforced?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Absolutely.

HOST FRANK SESNO: David Albo, are you a libertarian?

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): Well, I'm actually… I'm hoping she's not confusing me with those people around here because… I was hoping to communicate… My whole point is that I love legal immigrants. They're what made this country great. But you have to stop the illegal immigration. The taxpayers can't afford it.

We cannot continue to provide the services to millions and millions of people who aren't following the rules.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Well, there was a way of making immigration legal. If you had an employer who was willing to sponsor a worker, you had a perfect match of need with supply and demand, and that person could become a legal, permanent resident. That's been broken. We no longer allow that. It worked for years.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So there are-there are rules, there are restrictions?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Oh, absolutely there are rules.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): And they're not enforced. That's the problem.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Oh, they are.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): They're enforced sporadically and capriciously.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Let's hear from the lawyer. Let's hear from the lawyer.

IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY DENYSE SABAGH: Actually, the enforcement budget has quadrupled from the immigration service. And there's a tremendous amount of law enforcement going on right now. As a matter of fact, there's-there's… The law enforcement today is much more stringent and punitive than it used to be.

And do we have a system? We have a tightly controlled system in place. Are there undocumented immigrants? Absolutely. And where are they? They are in jobs. Seventy percent of the agricultural industry is undocumented. And who knows that? The agricultural industry.

And who's picking our food? The farm workers. And we know that. And the fact of the matter is that many of the illegal or undocumented workers are in jobs because there are jobs for them. So there's a bill. There's actually a bill that has been negotiated between farm labor in the farm industry called "Ag Jobs".

It's a great bill. It's not passed yet. It has 62 co-sponsors in the Senate. You would think that bill would be something we wanna pass because the status quo for farm workers is unconscionable.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. I'm gonna come back over here. Fairness to our great part of the audience that sat back here patiently all night long and listened to things from the back of our panel's head. But go ahead please.

JOHN ROBINSON: My name is John Robinson. I'm Director of the Martin Luther King Center [inaudible] and I've been there 40 years and I've seen tension in the black community towards a lot of the immigrants coming from El Salvador, and I treat 'em just like everyone else. But a lot of the foreigners have come here and gotten businesses and they won't hire blacks.

In the check cashing places… I don't like that. That's just rac…

HOST FRANK SESNO: Is that your personal experience? Have you actually…

JOHN ROBINSON: Oh, I've seen it and a lot of the blacks are upset about it. And the blacks [inaudible] in the neighborhood. We should learn to live with each other. The Spanish in [inaudible].

HOST FRANK SESNO: And you think this is a widespread problem?

JOHN ROBINSON: It is. And Arlington has a lot of 'em here and they've got five cars in one-in the parking areas, and the blacks come to me and say, "We don't like that." And there's just so much tension with it. And even in the schools… Schools are not integrated in Arlington. Kids go to school, but they go their different ways when they leave out the neighborhood.

HOST FRANK SESNO: A very important question. Let me come back to the panel. Let me come to our three elected representatives, panel, because this is a very serious issue that's been raised. It's not one we've talked about here. Delegate Norton, you wanna start us off on that? How serious an issue is this as now raised?

CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON: Actually, a whole lot less serious than it was when the Irish and the Italians went at each other's-gonna kill one another. Yeah, you do. Whenever there is a new immigrant group coming in and there's a group that's not been afforded equal opportunity, there are going to be jealousies that arise.

And what I think we ought to understand about the leadership of the African American community and the Hispanic community is that far from catering to this, they-they-they have taken very much the high road. And while there is an undercurrent of tension, not only is that tension not nearly what it was in the 19th Century, I wanna challenge one of the operating theories of this whole discussion.

And that is that multiculturalism has yielded division. I have… I do not see a great deal of division and tension in this society. And we are creating this for the purpose of this discussion.

HOST FRANK SESNO: We're certainly not trying to create it for the purpose of the discussion, but merely to have - let me be clear - but merely to have a discussion that people in the region and in America are having. We would be less than honest if we did not represent all sides of that discussion. Delegate.

VA DEL. DAVE ALBO (R-FAIRFAX): I'm gonna mark this day on my calendar cause I agree with ya.

HOST FRANK SESNO: I hope our cameras were rolling for this moment.

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Well, I think that it's very important that leadership give a message that is a message of tolerance and that values people as human beings. And I think that was my concern with Governor Ehrlich's message. And that…

HOST FRANK SESNO: So it sounded… You think it sounded intolerant?

MD DEL. ANA SOL GUTIERREZ (D-MONTGOMERY): Oh, yes. He talks about a mono-culture. You know, who's gonna find that? Where is… If you don't have multi-cultures, you have a single culture? Which one? Who's gonna decide?

HOST FRANK SESNO: Okay. I see somebody over here. Let me get… We have time for a couple more. Tell us your name, sir, and go ahead.

AUDIENCE MEMBER:My name is [inaudible] and I'm from Liberia, West Africa. What I've heard here today is that we have two Americas in this building. One America is telling the world, "Don't come into our country. And so shout up and go where you are." And other America is telling us, "Let's open up and come together as a people."

I come from African and we know the value of America in Africa. Everywhere America goes… Like my country will have war for 15 years. It took seven United States military men to stop 15 years of bloodletting in my country. People walk in there and it stopped it.

So we-people appreciate America. And because we appreciate America we've come to this country to work for this country. There is…

HOST FRANK SESNO: What do you do? What do you do for work?

AUDIENCE MEMBER:I'm a psychotherapist. I came to this country with an undergraduate degree. I have a Masters. I'm almost completing my doctorate degree. That's something I will take back home. However, my children who were born in this country are Americans. I wanna carry them back.

Can I? Yes, because I'm their father. But will it be comfortable for them? No, because they have a different lifestyle here.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So what will you do?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: What I will do is I will have to do that which is good for my children first.

HOST FRANK SESNO: So you will stay?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I don't intend to stay because I also have a responsibility to my country.

HOST FRANK SESNO: Very interesting. Thank you very much. All right, I'm afraid that because of time constraints that's going to be-have to be our last question. But I would like very much to turn for the last comment to Mr. Leonsis. America Online is America Online.

I don't mean to make this a commercial but that's the name of the company. You own sports teams. You play all over the world. Your own story is a dramatic story. Forget the politicians for a minute. It's business. What's the future?

AOL VICE-CHMN. TED LEONSIS: Embrace and extend. All the growth and the new media industry is coming from these new communities. Latino is the fastest growing segment online, followed by African American. And I think we can use technology to help people at Toggle to be better Americans.

That they can celebrate their own culture and be integrated more into what the American culture is. What I've been shocked at tonight is that some people think that there is a made-in-stone American culture as opposed to that the culture is a living, breathing dynamic thing and that we're inventing it everyday.

And, you know, I, for one, think that today's the worst day America will ever be. It'll get better everyday as more people come into the country and we kind of suck out the best of what everyone has to offer. And so I'm an optimist and I think this is good business.

And I think that for us to turn a blind eye to what's really happening… And we don't live in a Norman Rockwell painting. We live in something that's very real and authentic and that's indigenous to us. And we should embrace it and extend on it and build on it.

HOST FRANK SESNO: All right. To our panel, thank you very much for a very provocative conversation tonight. To our-the participants in our audience, to Audrey Singer, to Police Chief-Acting Police Chief, [inaudible] and DHS and across the spectrum, WTOP Radio, washingtonpost.com and, of course, George Mason University and WETA, this has been a remarkable conversation about a remarkable trend in our region, a region that is now more than nearly 17% foreign born.

I'm sorry for the term, but it's the best I can do. And a trend that we're told will continue. This is part of the mosaic of American history. The question is, the challenge is, in a post-9/11 world, in a world where the finances and the resources are finite, how do we balance the newcomers and their needs and their rights and their cultures with that with which we are all working, that which we have and that which we want to preserve.

Press One For English. We worked [inaudible] at coming up with…