Immigrants and Separation

Mom in the U.S.-- Children in El Salvador

Four years ago, Maday Flores left her five children in El Salvador to join the exodus of Latin Americans heading north to join the growing ranks of the Washington area's housekeepers, construction workers, nannies and cooks. Flores makes six times what she did in her home country. But she and her children live with daily reminders of separation and the knowledge that it will be years before the family is reunited.

Story and Photo Gallery:Salvadoran Family Endures the Wages of Separation (Post, Aug. 20)

Washington Post staff writer Nurith Aizenman was online Friday, Aug. 20, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss her story about the separation of one El Salvadoran mother from her children in order to make more money in the U.S.

A transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Nurith Aizenman: Hi, Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful comments and questions. It's a pleasure to be here today to discuss this story.

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Vienna, Va.: Why can't the children come with their mother? I understand that papers are a big obstacle, but there are a lot of children without papers in this country.

Nurith Aizenman: You are right that many parents in Maday Flores's circumstance appear to have chosen to bring their children over illegally. However this is not an easy decision, because the crossing into the United States can be very dangerous. Flores walked for three days across the Arizona desert to get here. Along the way she ran out of water and the soles of her sneakers fell apart. She told me that she is too scared to put her children--who are aged 8 through 16--through such risky ordeal.

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Alexandria, Va.: Is the mother going to apply for U.S. citizenship?

Nurith Aizenman: The restaurant that Maday Flores works at has sponsored her for permanent residency -- the first step towards getting citizenship. However such applications can take years to go through. And although with a green card she would be free to travel to see her children, and possibly bring them over for visits to the United States, it could take years longer before she could bring them to this country to live. That is her goal, but she is not sure that she will be able to endure the years of separation it will probably require.

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Washington, D.C.: How did Maday come from being an undocumented worker to one with papers now (albeit one that doesn't allow her to leave the U.S.)?

Nurith Aizenman: After earthquakes devastated El Salvador in 2001 the Bush Administration granted temporary work permits to Salvadorans who were already in the United States in recognition of the fact that the money they were sending home was crucial to El Salvador's recovery. Maday Flores was one of thousands who signed up under the program, which has been extended several times. However because she was in the country illegally before she got this status, if she were to leave the United States for a visit to El Salvador she would be barred from re-entering.

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Arlington, Va.: Obviously the family's neighborhood in El Salvador has a high violence rate. Did they say how many people they personally knew had been victims of violence?

Did you interview any immigration officials? I just wonder how they see the mother's plight. The restrictions on travel, I imagine, are a hardship for everyone with this status.

Nurith Aizenman: I don't have an exact number for you but they know many victims. Violent deaths are a monthly and sometimes weekly occurrence in their neighborhood. In fact the 20-year-old whose shooting is described in the story is the brother of one of Karen Flores' closest school mates. She is one of the girls who Karen had invited to be a maid of honor at her party and whose parents refused because the dress required would be too expensive.

I did not quote immigration officials for this article because the focus was on laying out how one family has experienced this type of separation. But I agree it would make for an interesting follow-up.

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Washington, D.C.: What happened to the father of Maday's children?

Nurith Aizenman: He was a married man with children of his own and many years senior to Maday Flores when they met. At the time she was 17 and living with her parents who -- according to Maday's mother Carmen Flores -- were barely on speaking terms with each other. According to Maday, at first she was in love with the father of her children. But as she grew older and wanted to be more independent their relationship soured and he no longer showed interest in the children. Eventually, Maday says, she got a legal order requiring him to pay child support for the children. After a few months he stopped paying it. The children say that once every year or two he calls them briefly. But other than that they have no contact with him.

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Washington, D.C.: I lived in El Salvador in the capital for almost a year, teaching English. I've been to many developing nations, and only in El Salvador have I seen the largest division among rich and poor.

Your descriptions of Apopa -- and the conditions in which the family live -- are on the ball. Apopa is one of the poorest barrios, and the Flores children are lucky to be in school at all ... and off the streets. I can only hope the family can someday be reunited.

My question: Given this week's massacre at the La Esperanza jail -- what a name for a jail-- (Mariona), as well as increased gang activity and violence, (when I lived there, human heads were found in book bags in city parks!) do you think Sra. Flores will still return or try harder to bring her children here?

Nurith Aizenman: Yes that was a particularly grisly event.
Maday Flores says that her preference would be to find a way to bring her children to the United States. But she is also not sure that she will be able to stand the wait.

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Bethesda, Md.: Wouldn't it have been more sensible to move the entire family to a safer city in El Salvador instead of leaving the family behind? After all, a person in an unsafe area in D.C. might move their family to a modest apartment in Montgomery County; they would not leave their family in D.C. and move to Beverly Hills, Calif.

Nurith Aizenman: Well, this is more a question for Maday Flores than for me. But although she is paid much more in the United States than she was at her job in El Salvador, her means are still quite limited. And unfortunately gang violence is widespread not just in her children's current neighborhood but throughout the sorts of neighborhoods she could afford to move them to.

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Arlington, Va.: I would like to comment on this article. I am 23 years old from El Salvador. I was at work when I read this story and I could not help myself but let out all the tears it brought to my eyes. My parents did the same as Madaly Flores. My father left El Salvador when I was two and about two years later my mother left as well leaving their three children behind with my aunt and grandma. I came to the U.S when I was five.
We are all now adults and in college hoping that soon we will have a creer and help provide for them just as they did for us. Unfortunately, they spent all these years working hard to provide for us that they never had the time to focus on themselves such as going to school to learn how to speak English. Soon they plan to retire and go back to El Salvador and we plan on taking care of them.
Thank you for sharing this story with the rest of the community since many can relate.

Nurith Aizenman: Thanks so much for your comment. One of the reasons I chose to write about the Flores family is because the separation they are enduring is so typical of the immigrant experience today. I'm glad that in your case, at least, it appears to have brought some very real benefits. Good luck with your career!

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Washington, D.C.: Congratulations on a great story, rarely told and even rarely attempted -- from a viewpoint of kids, especially. An information box said that all interviews were conducted in Spanish. Did you speak Spanish or did you use a translator? Was it hard to communicate at all? Also, you spent only a week? Those are great details in there.

Nurith Aizenman: Thanks! And yes, I am fluent in Spanish, which was certainly helpful in this case. Although I spent a week with the Flores children, prior to coming I interviewed their mother extensively, so I already knew a fair amount about them before arriving, and that too was helpful. I also spent a fair amount of time interviewing people in Apopa--teachers and neighbors, for instance--who knew them well.

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Arlington, Va.: Your article really touched me. My husband is Salvadoran and left his two young children behind 10 years ago. He felt the tremendous guilt and anxiety that Maday feels. Thankfully we've now brought his children to the U.S. legally, but there are too many people in Maday's position around this country. It's a terrible heartache and you told the story very well.

I'm submitting early, but bracing myself for anti-immigrant comments that this chat my attract. I guess until you walk a mile in another person's shoes, you really can't pass judgment.

Nurith Aizenman: Thanks for your comment, and I'm so glad to hear that your husband is now reunited with his children.

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Washington, D.C.: Does government in El Salvador monitor what is sent in the country to the families? It would seem that a lot of jealousy would existence one family may be a little better off than others.

Nurith Aizenman: Well the government of El Salvador is certainly aware of the tremendous effect that the money that immigrants in the United States are sending back--often referred to as "remittances". At present remittances comprise about 14 percent of the country's GDP.
Re: your comment on possible jealousy that raises an interesting point. Many development experts are hailing these remittances as a powerful force for alleviating poverty in Central and South America because they go directly to some of the region's poorest citizens. Unfortunately there is still a scattershot quality to this form of aid: families who have relatives who have managed to get to the United States share in the benefits, while those who are not so lucky remain as they were before.

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Silver Spring, Md.: What avenues are there available to help out families in this situation.

Nurith Aizenman: There are a large number of non-profit organizations that serve Latin American immigrants in this area. I don't have a list with names and phone numbers handy right now. But if you email me at aizenmann@washpost.com I will be happy to send you some later.

Then there is the larger question of whether to change immigration laws in ways that might benefit such families --for example whether to give work permits or even the possibility of permanent legal status to some of the millions of illegal immigrants currently living in the United States, or, on a smaller scale to somehow permit people such as Maday Flores who do have temporary protected status to travel back to their countries for visits.

These questions, of course, have given rise to a heated debate. In hopes of furthering it I'm going to publish some of the comments that readers have sent in this vein...

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Clinton, Md.: As far as I'm concerned, this woman should never be eligible for citizenship or even permanent residency. She broke our laws to enter this country illegally, and she should be deported immediately. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against immigration itself. But it must be done through the proper channels. My husband is a recent immigrant, and even though it was difficult, time-consuming and expensive, we went through the legal process to bring him here rather than take a short-cut. I have no patience for people who put themselves through danger and hardship (e.g. running through the desert) to get here and then complain about the trip.

Nurith Aizenman: one view:

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Washington, D.C.: There is a flipside to the issue of family re-unification. Some dependents of immigrants become wards of the state after their arrival. Perhaps Maday is a good example of an immigrant who could support her family here, but that doesn't describe all of them.

Nurith Aizenman: A similar view.

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Alexandria, Va.: While this is very much a traditional American story, the difference between this story and the story of my own grandfather seems to be that when he came, it was relatively easy to do legally and when he made enough money after a few years alone, he was able to bring his family over legally. My life is as good as it is today because of him.

Yet now, immigrants must break the law to achieve their dreams and spend years apart from their families. I don't know the solution but it must be heartbreaking for them.

Nurith Aizenman: A different view.

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Alexandria, Va.: Do you ever feel that many immigrants' plights are under-appreciated by a majority of mainstream American society? Many people ask, "Why don't they just get a job;" however, many do not seem to understand how difficult it is for a new immigrant in the U.S. (i.e., paperwork, cultural differences, language barriers, etc.).

Nurith Aizenman: A similar view.

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Clarendon, Va.: I have a greater problem with illegal immigration than with any other issue. On the one hand, I realize it was luck of the draw that allowed me to be born here, rather than there; dozens die every year trying to enter the country; and the money they send home is supporting several third world countries. But the bottom line for me is that we are rewarding criminal activity. People who play by the rules to gain legal admittance must wait decades to be admitted, if they are admitted at all. This does not seem right to me. I also think that if illegals were not here to take low-paying jobs that can be foisted upon them because of their illegal status, employers would be forced to pay living wages and society as a whole would benefit.

Nurith Aizenman: Another view.

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Logan, Utah.: Millions of families are in this situation, working, paying taxes, respecting the laws and giving the best of their lives to make America the best place to live in the world, why they are considered second-class human beings with no rights and hope?
Where is the so-called people's rights act? What are the D.C. politicians waiting for?
Thanks.

Nurith Aizenman: One last view on this debate.

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Nurith Aizenman: Thanks to all who participated in this discussion -- your comments were so insightful and interesting to read.
A quick note: several people have asked about how to assist Maday Flores directly, or immigrants more generally. If you email me at aizenmann@washpost.com I would be glad to pass on your sentiments to Maday Flores, or send a list of organizations that work with immigrant communities.

Finally, many of you wrote about your own similar experiences. I am going to close by posting a number of those messages.

Best wishes,

Nurith Aizenman

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Personal Experience: It took my family a total of 19 years and 7 months to reunite. We kept in touch the whole time by writing letters and occasional telephone calls, which were incredibly expensive for us. The thought of being reunited -- a.k.a. hope -- kept us going. It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but you have to have been there to know what it's like.

Nurith Aizenman: A personal experience.

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Takoma Park, Md.: Thank you so much for the article. My family arrived here in 1990 from El Salvador. We were all lucky because we were granted permission to come here together and we left no immediate family member behind. We shared hardships once we arrived here. My father is an educated man but he had to endure working in a restaurant as a dishwashing worker. My mom was a high school teacher in El Salvador and once here she found herself working as a maid. But the bad times have passed and we're enjoying our new lives here in this country but we will never forget our people in El Salvador and the struggle of trying to have a better life.

Nurith Aizenman: A personal experience.

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