Federal Diary Live

Job hunters, especially young people, often have trouble navigating through federal hiring process. All too often, federal job applications are filled with government jargon, obscure job titles and requirements asking for evidence of your knowledge, skills and abilities.

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman and Emily K. Troutman, a mother-daughter team, join The Post's Stephen Barr, who writes the Federal Diary column, to discuss federal job hunting and what it takes to land employment in the government on Federal Diary Live at noon Oct. 13.

Kathryn and Emily Troutman are the authors of "The Student's Federal Career Guide: 10 Steps to Find and Win Top Government Jobs and Internships." Kathryn Troutman is president of The Resume Place and trains federal employees on career advancement and resume writing. She is the author of "Ten Steps to a Federal Job" and the "Federal Resume Guidebook." Emily Troutman is a graduate of the College of the Atlantic and is working on a master's in public policy at the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities. She is an editorial writer for the Minnesota Daily newspaper.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

_____________

Stephen Barr: Thanks to all joining in this discussion today, especially our guests, Kathryn and Emily Troutman. To get us started today, Kathryn and Emily, let's begin with an overview of what students need to know when looking for work in the government. Again, thanks for joining in this discussion today.

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: Hello and welcome to our discussion today on Federal Jobs and Internships for Students!

Emily and I just co-authored and published a book on this topic: Student's Federal Career Guide, Ten Steps for Top Jobs & Internships in Government! While working on the book, we learned the most important steps for students to successfully apply for federal jobs and internships.

Step 1: Networking - Who do you know?
Step 2: Find your Agency and Job Title
Step 3: Internship information
Step 4: Understand Federal Jobs - Target Your Grade and Salary
Step 5: Find the best Vacancy Announcements
Step 6: Write your Federal & Electronic REsume
Step 7: WRite outstanding KSAs
Step 8: Apply for Federal Jobs
Step 9: Track & Follow-up on Applications
Step 10: Interview and Land the Job!

That's what we learned when research and writing this book!
We can write more about the steps as we answer your questions. Kathryn

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hi. Wouldn't it be wiser to use your college placement office to arrange an internship? I assume most of them have ways to steer their students into pre-professional training programs.

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: USING YOUR COLLEGE PLACEMENT OFFICE FOR INTERNSHIPS. Yes, it's a great idea to use your College Placement Office becuase they probably (or could have) relationships set up with some federal agencies. But you can also go directly to the agency's website to research federal internships. They probably / might not advertise the internship information on www.usajobs.com, so you can do your own research at the agency of your choice. Using the college placement office and your own research is best! Kathryn

_______________________

Herndon, Va.: Are most of these jobs in downtown D.C.?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: STUDENT JOBS AND INTERNSHIPS / LOCATION: You can search for jobs by geographic region on www.usajobs.com. Many of these jobs are in DC, but there are jobs in the 10 Regional Cities, as well as in locations throughout the U.S. If you have a federal agency in mind, you can go to that agency's website and look for their internship program description.

Here are a few of the Internship websites that we found in our research for the book and CD. We found 75 of these. Kathryn

Internships, Summer Jobs, Scholarships, and Special Hiring Program Websites
Departments of Government and Internships / Job Information

1. Department of Agriculture http://www.usda.gov
Internships & resources for College Students:
http://www.usda.gov/da/employ/college-students.htm
Internships & resources for Recent Grads & Experienced Professionals: http://www.usda.gov/da/employ/RCG&EP.htm
Internships & resources w/ USDA for Graduate Students: http://www.usda.gov/da/employ/graduate.htm

2. Center for Medicare & Medicaid http://www.cms.gov
Fellowships & Student Employment Opportunities:
http://www.cms.gov/careers/programs/default.asp

3. Center for Medicare & Medicaid http://www.cms.gov
Special Programs for Students and Internships:
http://www.cms.gov/careers/programs/default.asp

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: Hello. I imagine that agencies have lots of students applying for internships. How do you get past the first screen or two and get your foot in the door?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: GETTING PAST THE FIRST SCREEN OR TWO FOR INTERNSHIPS. Yes, you are right, they receive many federal resumes and applications. But you would be surprised that if your resume is outstanding with a great cover letter, your package could stand out. First with the Student Human Resources Recruiter ... then the hiring supervisor. Be sure to add the key words, competencies and courses that they are asking for in the announcement! You could see excellent samples of student resumes -- so that you get it right, on the CD-ROM of our book. Kathryn

Emily K. Troutman: Another good way to get past the first screening round is to make sure you have solid, relevant experience. Of course, lots of students don't have work experience. But if you've taken any relevant classes or worked on relevant projects, you want to actually list them on your resume. For example, if you are applying to an internship at the National Park Service, make sure you mention your backpacking experience or science classes.

Emily K. Troutman: Another good way to get past the first screening round is to make sure you have solid, relevant experience. Of course, lots of students don't have work experience. But if you've taken any relevant classes or worked on relevant projects, you want to actually list them on your resume. For example, if you are applying to an internship at the National Park Service, make sure you mention your backpacking experience or science classes.

_______________________

Falls Church, Va.: What are the most common mistakes made on federal resumes when writing about job experience, especially if most of that experience has been school project or volunteer project related?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: COMMON MISTAKES MADE ON FEDERAL RESUMES BY STUDENTS.

1. Length - the Federal resume can be 2-3 pages. Most private industry / business / student resumes are a crowded one page version.

2. Summary of Skills - applicants can add a summary of their most relevant skills (that match the vacancy announcement requirements)

3. Key Words from the Announcements - students and all applicants should study the "duties" and "qualifications" carefully, so that they can pick up any language that will be useful in their resume as well.
and...

4. Add Compliance Details such as: Social Security Number, Citizenship, previous federal government experience or military experience. For each work experience the HR specialists require information about the street address, supervisor's name and phone, salary.

The Student's Federal Career Guide and CD includes 14 excellent samples of Federal "paper" and electronic resumes for the on-line applications. The RESUME IS ALL IMPORTANT. It is the application! Please take your time and make it as good as possible! Do your research and match your experience to the resume! Kathryn

_______________________

Jacksonville, Fla.: I have a good friend with a BA in Accounting who is also Hispanic. He applied for an open position here at Jacksonville over one year agao and never heard a peep from anyone. He's asking what the 'Veterans Preference Number' is that the application form requests that the applicant fill in and where does he learn of it to comply?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: APPLIED A YEAR AGO / VETERANS PREFERENCE NO. I hope that your friend is applying to more positions and not waiting for this one. That's the game, you write your best application, determine your job title (Accounting Specialist is corect for him I think), and then submit to as many agencies as you can find. Sounds like he has applied to Navy, Army and other agencies that are in the Florida area.

But again, the resume needs to include his accounting courses, accounting projects and relevant skills so that he WILL STAND OUT IN A STACK OF RESUMES!

Veteran's information would only pertain if he was in the military. Otherwise, he would respond with Not Applicable. The Federal HR specialists keep track of veterans applications carefully. Kathryn

_______________________

Falls Church, Va.: How can you have a winning resume package when most or all of your job experience comes from school related projects?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: SCHOOL RELATED PROJECTS CONVERT INTO GREAT STUDENT FEDERAL RESUMES! You can have a great federal resume, even though you do not have job experience that is related. Students can add this information to their resumes:

+Course titles and descriptions (short version)
+Titles of projects and papers with descriptions
+Project details are great! In fact, write about the project, the title, the teamwork and the results!
+Activities are helpful and demonstrate extra competencies, including: TEAMWORK, MULTI-TASKING, PLANNING, COORDINATION, LEADERSHIP.
+Internships - hopefully, you have one!

Remember that a Student Federal Resume can be 2 pages.
This is your most important resume! To get your carer started! Take your time analyze your target jobs! Kathryn

_______________________

St. Louis, Mo.: Is it more difficult to be considered for a job if you are still in graduate school?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: STILL IN GRADUATE SCHOOL. This is a great time to apply for federal jobs and internship. The Presidential Management Fellows program is just about to close -- this would be a great one for you, if you are in your last year.

Here is information on the PMF program.
http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/EI18.asp
Q: When is the deadline for applying?
A: The PMF application must be completed by Friday, October 15, 2004, Midnight, Eastern Time.

Well, this is good information for you anyway. And there are other internships also - Federal Career Internships.

Emily has insight into the PMF program also -- She just submitted herself! Kathryn

Emily K. Troutman: PMF may not be the best option for you now because you actually have to be nominated by your school. You could ask your career services office if they partcipate in the program or if they would be willing to nominate you.

Otherwise, it's generally EASIER to get a paid internship while you are still in school. The government calls their entry-level training programs "Internships", so don't be fooled, you CAN make money. Check out the internship pages on the websites of agencies you might be interested in. Or check out our book, "The Student's Federal Career Guide", we have included a CD-ROM with links to agencies and their internship programs.

_______________________

Manassas, Va.: Ms. Troutman (Kathryn): I've recently read two of your books and have applied them to my federal job hunt. They have been most helpful, and I want to thank you for that. Before reading your books, my federal resumes were not only rejected, but did not even make it past the first, say, "filter process." Now, I receive responses such as "your application has been referred to the selecting officer" and such, which I believe is a notable improvement. The problem is, as weeks and months pass by, I don't know if or when a person has been hired for those positions. How long must one wait to find out if the position has been taken, and who should be the contact person?Furthermore, if one is contacted for an interview, what should one expect? Is a federal interview similar to one in the private sector?Thank you for taking my questions. Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: CONGRATULATIONS - GETTING THERE ! It's time for TRACK AND FOLLOW-UP! I'm glad the books helped you with your fedres and KSAs! It does take the HR specialists 30 days at the least to get back to you. And in my Ten Step book and in the Student book, our Step 8 tells you how to track and follow-up on applications. And then, of course, you should be applying for other jobs and not waiting for responses.

Some announcements, you cannot follow-up on, but some you can. Save the anncts and call the name and number on the annct to see what is happening. Some vacancy announcements are eliminated due to problems in the system; other anncts may not attract enough applicants (believe it or not).

If you can apply to two jobs per week, that's a good average. And another number is SUBMIT 30 APPLICATIONS, then hope that interviews, and notes from selecting officials will be appearing!

INTERVIEWING? It could be by phone, or in-person. It could be with one person, two or a panel. Be prepared by knowing the job, the agency, the mission and how you can help achieve this mission. Practice your best examples and know your strengths. Good luck and keep applying. Thanks for writing about how useful the books have been. I'm glad that the samples helped! Kathryn

_______________________

Kentlands, Md: I notice you have a KSA builder on your website. Can you say something about what are KSAs and how important are they for a good package? Thanks. Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: LISTEN TO OUR RADIO SHOW ABOUT KSA WRITING WITH MIKE CAUSEY TOO!

KSA BUILDER ON www.tenstepsforstudents.org -- YES, THANKS FOR ASKING. Our popular KSA Builder helps KSA writers focus on their best examples! Please go ahead and try out the KSA builder.

And if you have time to listen to Your Turn with Mike Causey, Emily and I talk about KSA writing on this archived radio show from Oct. 11th. Here is the web address. Emily talks about her experience in writing her PMF KSAs on the air. It's very good! Kathryn

++++Listen to the Archives of Kathryn & Emily talking with Mike Causey about Student Federal Jobs and Internships. Listen to the Oct. 11th show YOUR TURN on Federal News Radio.
http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=55

_______________________

Gaithersburg, Md.: My son recently graduated college. His major is International Diplomacy. He has taken 2 years of Arabic. I realize that the State Dept, NSA, maybe CIA and FBI would be good choices for him to look at for internships or jobs. What are some of the other agencies he could consider?

Emily K. Troutman: Your son should also consider intelligence opportunities in the armed forces... that doesn't mean he'll have to enlist! The Air Force, Army, Navy, etc. often hire people with Arabic skills. With two years of Arabic, he's probably a beginning Intermediate speaker (unlike French or Spanish, in Arabic two semesters equals only one of another language). He may want to consider going back to school to study Arabic specifically. If he doesn't want to do translating, he may want to develop further expertise in Middle Eastern affairs and get a Master's in policy, history or language. That might give him more opportunities in program analysis.

_______________________

Alexandria, Va.: I have a conditional offer from an office at USAID for a position that I really, really want and am currently waiting for a security clearance. The office told me that they had requested a temporary clearance, yet it's been about 2 months and I haven't heard anything. My current employer wants to know if I'll be leaving and when...is there any way that I can get more information about the status of my clearance? Any tips for moving the process along?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: CONDITIONAL OFFER FROM USAID. Well, that's great - I think. The clearances do take awhile and it is SO SLOW. But I am quite show they are working on it. Do you have a telephone number or name of the person who interviewed you, or the HR peson's name? You do need to contact them and get some more details for the sake of your employer now. Any information could help you ... even if it is slow. As long as you know it's moving, that's good.
Good luck, I hope it works out, Kathryn

_______________________

Germantown, Md.: Hi, every time I have tried to apply for a government job, you must have a security clearance. I know that it takes about two years to check a person's background, but I was wondering, do you know where I can apply for a security clearance before I apply for a government job? Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: DON'T HAVE A SECURITY CLEARANCE?
It doesn't take 2 years, I'm happy for that. It does take 6 to 9 months. If you see a vacancy announcement for a job that requires a security clearance, it might also say, "Must be able to obtain a security clearance." This means that you can apply for this if you know ahead of time that you will be able to obtain a clearance. They will hire you temporarily, or begin the clearance for you if you make it through the hiring process.

You can't apply for a security clearance on your own. You can get the clearance through the government, military or a defense contractor. So you just have to find these jobs and apply for them ... and begin this process.

That's why it's great to start this in college. Thanks for writing. Kathryn

_______________________

Stamford, Conn.: The majority of the people I have spoken to from College Career Counselors, to HR people have all said go online, but I've found it very confusing. Do you think this is good advice? Can you suggest anything else I should be doing in addition to looking into USAJOBS? In addition I've read that the majority of jobs out there are not found online. Do you think this is true, and does that theory apply to federal jobs?

Emily K. Troutman: USAJOBS is definitely where most federal jobs can be found. However, that doesn't mean it's easy! USAJOBS doesn't really offer a refined search program... which is to say that experts at USAJOBS actually recommend that the best way to find a job is to search for ALL JOBS and read each announcement. Yeah, right! That would take a lifetime.

If you can narrow your search at all, you will find much better results. Try to narrow first by Geography, by selecting where you want to live. Then try narrowing your search by salary, if you are a new graduate you might want to enter $26,000 to $70,000.

The best way to narrow your search and find good announcements is to select agencies that look promising. That means going directly to each agency and doing a little research into their mission. Good luck!

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: TRY AVUECENTRAL.COM. This is another website where government jobs are listed. And it's free. This site will include Dept. of Homeland Security Jobs, Forest SErvice, Library of Congress and all agencies. They have a good on-line resume builder and profile system. You can look for jobs here.

Understanding the vacancy announcements IS ANOTHER MATTER. One tip that I can give you is this: look for job announcements with a range of grade: GS-7 through 9. or other range of grades!
Good luck with your search! Kathryn

_______________________

Norwalk, Conn.: How long does the hiring process usually take?

Emily K. Troutman: Good question! I could give you some numbers, but they're almost useless. It really really depends on the job to which you are applying. Anytime there is a security clearance, you can count on 6 months to a YEAR before you are hired. However, some job processes go faster based on how desperate the government is and how streamlined their process is.

You can definitely bet that it will take at least twice as long as private industry. Unlike private businesses, managers in government must go through lots of paperwork to make sure their hiring decisions are fair. Be sure to start early!

_______________________

Fairfax, Va.: I'm currently in federal service as a GS-7 and will finish my Master's in 3 years. I've heard about the Presidential Management Fellows program, but heard that the fellows start out as a GS-9. I will be a GS-11 when I finish my Master's, so should I still apply then?

Emily K. Troutman: That depends on whether you're willing to take a pay cut. The PMF program varies for each person. If you are proactive and find a very excellent position in PMF that allows you to travel between agencies and receive valuable training, it may be worth it. If you get a PMF position that is basically an entry-level job, it may not be worth it.

PMF is a kind of training program. So its value to you really depends on what kind of training you get. I don't know what your job is now, but PMF may give you the opportunity to start a different career path. I think you should consider applying and see what opens up!

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: THANK YOU FOR WRITING EVERYONE! I hope that we helped you with your Student Federal job searches!

Please visit www.tenstepsforstudents.org for information on the Ten Steps and the Student's Federal Career Guide.

The main website for federal resume writing and the free newsletter is www.resume-place.com
Telephone (888) 480 8265 for information.

The book is available at bookstores everywhere ... coming to amazon soon ... and www.resume-place.com

Good luck with your federal job searches! Kathryn Troutman, Federal Career Coach

_______________________

Connecticut: Hi,I'm a 2004 college graduate, with a major in International Relations and Hispanic Studies. I'm very interested in finding an entry-level position in the Federal Government, but I've been finding it difficult to find them. I was told that the best way is to take the foreign service exam, do you agree? and Do you have any advice on how to gain an entry-level position?

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS MAJOR / HISPANIC STUDIES. You have many job opportunities. Emily can tell you about the Foreign Service Exam and international job ideas, based on her own research and experience. Kathryn

_______________________

Alexandria, Va.: Which agencies run the largest student programs? How do you find out about them? Thank you.

Kathryn Kraemer Troutman: LARGEST AGENCIES THAT HIRE STUDENTS! Great Question!

I am not positive (sorry) for sure which ones are the largest, but judging from the budget and the homelane security issues, I would suggest that you searchg for internship at these sites:

8. Dept. of Health & Human Services http://www.hhs.gov
Internships & Student Employment Opportunities:
http://www.hhs.gov/careers/students.html

11. Dept. of the Interior http://www.doi.gov
Career Internships for Recent Grads:
http://www.doi.gov/doijobs/employ5.html

17. Dept. of Veterans Affairs http://www.va.gov
Employment Opportunities:
http://www.va.gov/jobs/
Internships & Student Employment Opportunities:
Independent U.S. Agencies

9. Dept. of Homeland Security http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/
Employment Opportunities:
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=40
Fellowships & Internships
http://www.orau.gov/dhsed/

There are many more. We did this research recently, so the web addresses should be good! Every agency has a Student HR Recruiter that you can write to! Kathryn

_______________________

Stephen Barr: Our thanks to Kathryn and Emily Troutman for taking questions today. We had many more questions than we could answer in this hour. Thanks to all of you reading this transcript, too. We'll be back here at noon next Wednesday. Please join us!

_______________________