Recently, a Ballou Senior High student was fatally shot by his classmate. Police and students say that both students were involved in a dispute since September. The parents of both students said they had spoken to the principal of the school for their sons' safety. D.C. area educators believe that peer mediation programs, not cameras or security systems, can prevent school violence.
No one faults a kid who occasionally spouts off a little negative emotion that goes nowhere and hurts no one. In fact, this kind of anger is considered normal and healthy. But when a child's anger psychologically diminishes or physically harms another person, it's a two-edged toxin that needs to be nipped in the bud.
Evelyn Vuko
(washingtonpost.com)
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Join columnist Evelyn Vuko and Michael Dwyer, Ph.D. psychology professor at Baldwin-Wallace College to discuss ways to deal with violent or aggressive behavior in kids. They will be online Tuesday, Feb. 10 at 2 p.m. ET.
"We need to start earlier like in kindergarten or first grade to prevent its development," says Dwyer. Currently engaged in a broad-based anger-management project with school districts in Cleveland, Dwyer is training students, teachers, parents, bus drivers and other school staff to deal with younger kids in positive ways that promote respect.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Evelyn Vuko:
Welcome to our chat on juvenile anger management. Dr. Michael Dwyer has deep experience in the field with both adults and kids and is eager to provide you with some unique ways to help your kids deal with unhealthy anger. Now to your questions...
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Hartford, Conn.:
In addition to working with parents, why is it important to get adults--teachers, bus drivers, other school workers--involved?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Changing the home environment alone or the school environment alone is not enough. Ineffective interpersonal skills taught in either one of these settings serves to counteract the adaptive training carried out with the children in the other. Children learn to be uncivil, uncaring, and violent from ongoing influences found in both settings. Recent research on violence in the inner cities and in the "Columbines" of suburbia both arrive at this same conclusion.
. Stepping in early to prevent the development of violent and other inappropriate behavior patterns and poor learning habits is a far more effective approach than the current raft of treatment approaches focusing on mid to late childhood, adolescents, and adults. The majority of these interventions are aimed at dysfunctional behavior patterns that are already fixed in the participants, and result in only minimal to moderate effect, lasting for only short post-intervention time periods. Moreover, the evidence is piling up that these widespread approaches are not cost effective.
bus drivers and other school staff have an important and subtle effect on the lives of the children they meet with each day. The other day for example, I was training some bus drivers in anger de-escalation and the bus driver told of one child for which she was the only person in the school to reduce his angry outbursts. what did she do? she effectively created a respectful listening relationship with him such that he felt safe and accepted. He now comes to her bus early every day. He is no longer violent.
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Washington, D.C.:
Isn't the real issue in the Ballou HS shooting GUNS? How do these kids get them?
washingtonpost.com: Ballou Shooting Suspect, Victim Fought for Months (Post, Feb. 5)
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Since the early 80's a number of school districts have attempted what we call localized gun control policies that have generally been ineffective. Primarily because the gun control policies are directed at adults. Kids on the streets or kids in rural homes get guns from them not from gun suppliers. Controlling for whether or not you can get a gun into school has failed because school entrances are not the only way kids get guns , drugs etc into the school buildings...Geoffrey Canada has argued for better gun control in Harlem in his book Fist, Stick, Knife and Gun, but also realizes that most efforts have failed... MOre comprehensive approaches in which families and groups of kids working together have been somewhat successful. These are not police initiatives or even government initiatives but are typically family and community initiatives. See the Surgeon Generals (2001) report for a long review of such programs....
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Bethesda, Md.:
My husband is a teacher and one of his students was being disruptive and was sent down to a special room for disciplining students. Well this student then became disruptive in that room so what did the administration do . . . sent the kid back to the classroom. HELLOOO, but what kind of message does this send? Principals are hesitant to kick kids out of school because they are too timid. Also, would expelling a student effect the dropout numbers?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Teachers and other school personnel often find themselves unsupported by the administration. It is not so much that the administration does not want to help, but that they don't have as clear a picture of the anger and possible threat dynamics that the child poses..Looking at the training carried in schools for school personnel to handle such matters the programs, more often than not, are directed at teachers and not the administration or even other staff having lots to do with the children...Our program here in OHio is trying be comprehensive so we train everyone in the school setting as well as the parents...in this way we hope to cover all the significant adults in a child's community life and build bridges between them such that they join in their efforts in reducing the likelihood of violence in the children
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Worcester, Mass.:
Dr. Dwyer: Why has your program in Ohio focused on younger students?instead of targeting teenagers, who often represent the greatest anger-related problems in schools?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Our program in Ohio, Expanding Children's Caring About Others is an early prevention program because of a number of facts we know about the origins of violence and other maladaptive social behavior. For example we know that secure attachment relationship formed in the firs t year of live and still modified over later years in childhood are predictive of the effectiveness of all later social relationships including those with peers, teachers, and later friendships. If the early one is dysfunctional it becomes a blueprint for all later attachments and increases the likelihood of violence and other maladaptive relationships. Parenting models, temperament of children, and learning are all potential risk or protective factors in the early lives of children. We wish to optimize the learning by the children when in fact the environment has the greatest influence on them. When they have already established long patterns of violence and other ineffective anger managemnet techniques it is ever so much difficult to turn them around. As a recent Rand Inst report shows this programs that intervene with older kids who already show these patterns, cost a great deal more and show only moderate effects at best.
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Rockville, Md.:
I believe, that working with anger at a young age is a positive step. The young people of today don't think, about the consequences that can result from not thinking.
Also, I believe there should be tougher laws for people who does commit an act on school grounds. I think, once a year students need to visit either the city morgue or a pentitary. I really don't know what went wrong with today's youth's cause back when I was growning up. We had to be in the house when the street lights come on. We were able to be kids.
My prayers goes out to today youths.
Evelyn Vuko:
I agree that anger management techniques should be dealt with as soon as they arise, like when temper tantrums typically begin, at the age of 2. By dealing with it calmly and smoothly and providing clear directions and consequences you provide kids with important lessons in self-control. There is much conflict about the impact of taking kids to visit a morgue or a penitentiary in an effort to stem violent or aggressive behavir. Sometimes it emotionally backfires, adding another emotional burden for kids to carry. What do you think, Dr. Dwyer?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Evelyn, you are right on. The shock programs like taking children to prisons have in fact proven detrimental...About responding immediately, this is so true especially with younger children who have a long way to go in terms of cognitive and emotional development. They us to calmly and respectfully (Ican't say this often enough) to deal with what they are angry about and then show adaptive ways of dealing with their "legitimate" anger. Too often we criticize for being angry or diminish them for being angry rather than help them process the anger.
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New York, NY:
Do you hope to adapt what you are doing in the Cleveland area to schools in other cities around the country? Can this work in rural schools and in larger, more urban areas as well?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Yes, indeed our program can be placed in rural schools. We know that in the national statisticss that rural schools are likely to experience school violence as inner city and suburban schools.. Ballou to Columbine is not the only continuum, in fact we've found that rural, poverty stricken have an extremely high rate of violence relative to the others. However, a plus in rural schools is that interventions are more manageable because of the pockets of populations and that parents everywhere are proving very willing to get into the process of parent education and working with schools to address the problems. In fact in our program we have a mix of suburban and rural schools and their seems to be little difference in the cooperation and willingness of school personnel on all levels and parents to get involved in the training programs. My small army of research assistants has been observing children in all those settings and parents have been willing to give us permission to do so.
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Arlington, VA:
Are there training programs to help adults learn how to deal/handle an angry child or learn conflict negotiation? If so, could you name a few location in Northern Virginia or Washington, DC?
Evelyn Vuko:
There is a nationwide program called "Parents Anonymous, which focuses on "family strengthening."It helps parents find ways to deal with their own anger, then create a safe and secure home environment for their kids. Parents Anonymous groups, led by parents, meet throughout the US. Information is available at www.parentsanonymous.org or by calling 909-621-6184 in Claremont, CA.
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Parents Anonymous is a wonderful program. It is a program in which parents are worried about their own ability to manage their anger and not be abusive to their children. In PA the parents learn to rely on each other for emotional and informational support as they raise their children in alooving and effective way.
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Washington, D.C.: Hello,
My adolescent son is a high-functioning autistic child who, unfortunately, can also be obstenate and prone to bursts of anger. He goes to a public school. Some kids pick on him. Sometimes he lashes out unreasonably at them. Any suggestions about improving his behavior?
Dreadful in DC
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: It is true that autistic kids and other high functioning types of Pervasive Developmental Disorder children require special attention and not necessarily respond skills training programs directed at groups of children. Having said that, we are using a program called Becoming a LOve and Logic Parent which teaches parents how to effectively give children choices and at the same time keep the responsibility for the choices on the child. This is a one on one approach and parents who learn the techniques well have been able to successfully apply it to kids who are slow learners, kids with learning disabilities, and kids with impulse control problems. Indeed these are all characteristics of many high functioning autistic children..In our program we are identifying and assessing kids with those special needs in order that we can offer them and their parents extra help in these processes.
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Washington, D.C.:
My four year nephew has displayed violence toward my six year old son. Despite the fact that my son is older and bigger, he ends up crying and coming to tell me what happened. My sister spanks her son, while I use other methods of discipline. It seems to me that there is a clear connection between spanking and children that end up being hitters and showing violence. I realize that the decision to spank is up to the children's parents but, what would you say to my sister if you found yourself in this situation?
Evelyn Vuko:
Have a frank discussion with your sister and tell her your fears. If you've done this 500 times already, why not consider attending a parenting class together? It might be the best thing that ever happened to both of your boys.
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Dear Washington, YOu are absolutely correct. When we hit children, the research shows time and time again that a number of negative effects are the result. For example, they learn that hitting is a good way to get immediate control, they learn that pain is a powerful controller, they learn that we who are doing the hitting and who say we love them are purposely deciding to cause pain in their body, and that somehow saying "I love you"and hurting me at the same time ner feels right in the long run. Kids memories are filled with these inconsistencies all the way to adulthood. When adults then are stressed those long stored memories become relied upon and control behavior and become violent adults.
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Philadelphia, Penn.:
How do we (parents, teachers, school administrators) decide when aggressive behavior exhibited by many school kids toward each other crosses the line from the realm of normal emotional edginess into the anger-management zone?
Evelyn Vuko:
Tune in to tomorrow's Teacher Says chat which is geared to helping teachers. Also, check out a book called "When Kids Are Mad, Not Bad: A Guide to Recognizing and Handling Your Child's Anger by Henry A. Paul, MD (Berkeley Books.)It gives detailed information about every age group from infancy to teens.
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: A couple of other good sources out of hundreds are:
--James Garbarino's Lost Boys: Why our sons turn violent and how we can save them.
--Elliot Aronsons Nobody left to hate.
--National Association of School Psychologists: A review of effective school based violence intervention programs
--Youth Violence: A report of the surgeon general 2001 Department Health and Human Services. These are all excellent sources.
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Rochester, NY:
How much of the issue of violent behavior and externalizing disorders (CD,APD) can be directly linked to neurological structure and functioning in areas of the brain that affect emotions and insight, for example, based on the research you've seen and/or done?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: The answer is we are discovering that the plastic brain of very young children is highly responsive to environmental experiences of both the negative and positive kinds. A number of books on the neurological substrates of violence show us that genetic (dna in the neurons), neurochem imbalances, and brain centers, are highly correlated with various types of violent behavior and the ability to moderate impulsive anger and especially the ability/inability to perceive threat or danger in violent children and adults. I would suggest reading From Neurons to Neighborhoods from the Nat REs Council Institute of Medicine Shonkoff and Phillips 2000, and also an article from Science, july 2000, Violence: No Silver Bullet
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berea Ohio:
Dr. Dwyer it seems like this should be started at
the Preschool level? thanks, Lisa
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Dear Lisa,
You are absolutely correct. We should if at all possible and if we could get the funding to do so, begin our violence interventions with preschool children. In fact there are a number of cleverly designed and age appropriate programs for that age group with some scientific evidence of their success. Good suggestion!
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Phoenix, Arizona:
In your opinion, Dr. Dwyer, is treatment by medication, behavioral therapy or a combination of both the best avenue as a template to reduce anger and violence in children?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Especially in boys with long term impulse control problems, we have found that violence intervention of the psychoeducational type is more effective if these interventions are augmented with either adhd treatments, antidepressants and some time antianxiety drugs. Much of the inappropriate expression of anger have not much to do with the anger itself but the extremes in behavior exhibited by these kids who have a difficult time governing their behavior. Also attendant to this are the feelings of guilt and inadequacy that the kids build up--sometimes it gets so bad that the child acquires a self-concept of chronicity, such that they feel like being able to control selves is hopeless and the problem seems neverending. So, in short, yes it is often a good thing to combine both forms of treatment.
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Aspen Hill, Md.:
Have you mentioned that displays of too much anger, or done too often, can be a sign of mental illness? My daughter's school recommended that she see a therapist for anger management issues. The therapist eventually thought she may have had depression, but after I discovered her journal, which detailed a lot more than what she had told the therapist, she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It took some time to get the right medication mix, but the reasonless anger issues are pretty much gone. She still can get angry, but it is for a reason now. I have heard it said that a lot of our prisons' inmates have some form of mental disorder. It can start pretty young, sometimes.
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: Yes, intense and frequent outbursts of high anger is often a soft sign to lead us to look for more serious symptoms. In adults bipolars, in fact this type of chronic irritability and outbursts is clearly symptomatic. In children however, it is a little more complex, because their anger can come in lots of ways, including depressed moods. withdrawal, elective mutism, etc. The problem for the diagnostician is often one of deciding whether the context tolerates anger. Some ethnic groups and settings are more tolerant of such outbursts than others making the anger expression context dependent.
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Parma, Ohio:
It sounds like a great program. How can I get involved?
Michael Dwyer, Ph.D.: We are a collaboration of a community agency, a college, and the parents, children and professionals of four regional school districts, banding together in a primary prevention program of community change?that is, just the type of program that is comprehensive and sustained throughout the time of childhood. Both the Surgeon Generals office and the Center for Disease Control see such programs as very affective approaches to the problem of youth violence in our country.. To date we have received funding from The Cleveland Foundation, Martha Holden Jennings Foundation, Quality Communities Partnership,
The Abington Foundation, The Woodruff Foundation, Ford Community Relations Committee fund, The Community Foundation of Greater Lorain County, Baldwin-Wallace College, in-kind and in-service costs support from the target school districts. You may look us up at http://www.bw.edu/academics/psy/eccao
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Evelyn Vuko:
Thank you for your thoughtful and provocative questions on a very serious topic. Dr. Dwyer's responses as well as the resources we provided amount to a quick course in juvenile anger management. Thank you, Dr. Dwyer for kindly sharing your insights. Please tune in tomorrow when Dr. Steven Edwards of the National Crime Prevention Council joins me to help teachers deal with school violence.
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