U.S. Marines and French troops arrived in Haiti's capital, convulsed by violence after the departure of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. The troops hold peacekeeping duties as part of a United Nations authorized multi-national force.
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin, co-director of the "Haiti Reborn" program at the Quixote Center, was online Tuesday, March 2 at 11 a.m. ET, to discuss the overextending U.S. role in Haitian policy and the allegations that Aristide was forced to exile by the U.S.
The transcript follows
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
________________________________________________
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: Hi,
My name is Eugenia Charles-Mathurin and I am a co-director of the Quixote Center and I work with the Haiti Reborn program. We are a faith base social justice organization that work for structural changes in society and the church. Haiti Reborn, a project of the Quixote Center, works in the United States on behalf of the Haitian people to build an active grassroots solidarity movement and to advocate for a more just U.S. foreign policy. Haiti Reborn acts as a center of information to combat negative stereotypes, and provides in-depth political, economic and social analysis. To compliment this work at a structural level, we fund community-based initiatives which empower Haitians at the grassroots.
_______________________
Southport, Conn.:
Is it remotely possible that the US could have been involved in physically removing the President of Haiti? If so, what are the ramifications of this?
washingtonpost.com: U.S. Assembles Peacekeeping Coalition in Haiti (Post, March 2)
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: I think the U.S. is very much involved in the removal of President Aristide. We can go back to the creation of the Haitian opposition. We started seeing the International Republican Institute (IRI) along with USAID who began the process of building political parties whom they felt were compatible to face the Fanmi Lavalas political party. Then we had the May 2000 election where the oppositions participated as individual political parties not as a coalition and formed a coalition after the result of the election had been announced. We see the U.S. provide financial diplomatic support for the opposition. The IRI particularly does the training for the opposition in the Dominican Republic and we see the attempted coop in 2001 where Philippe was very involved in it. When the Haitian government asked for Philippe to be brought back to Haiti to be tried the IRI said he was not able to be found. But then again he was in Dominican Republic being trained and the U.S. sent weapons to the DR border and those weapons are being used in the current situation in Haiti. And then we see the resurfacing of Philippe. The U.S. has not denounced Philippe and Louis Jodel Chamblain for terrorizing the Haitian people and even now they are being supported when they should be arrested by now.
The ramifications are that the U.S. is giving the blood of the Haitian people to Philippe. We think it is wrong and takes away from the people's hope and dreams. The U.S., France and Canada are not supporting democracy with no process and basically supporting human rights violators.
_______________________
Editor's Note:
The International Republican Institute (IRI) categorically denies having any dealings of any kind with Guy Philippe. The IRI also denies providing any financial support to any groups or parties in Haiti. An IRI representative further asserts all IRI assistance is in the form of training and education to the democratic opposition and civil society.
_______________________
Harrisburg, Pa.:
What is it the rebels wants? It seems they have no clear objectives? Is there any hint of what they plan to do now that they have power?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: The rebels want the Haitian people's blood and they do not want to see democracy prevail. They most certainly don't have any objectives and that is what the international community should ask them to indicate their plan for the Haitian people. How are they going to continue to move forward with the process of democracy? Are they going to respect the Haitian people's rights? Will they submit themselves to the justice system given that they have been convicted in absentia for killing over 5,000 Haitians in 1991-1994? I think the plan is to reconstitute the Haitian army and continue to massacre the people who support democracy, the people who have been craving education, basic healthcare, clean water, and food, most importantly, the children who are dying of malnutrition.
_______________________
College Park, Md.:
What is happening to members of Pres. Aristide's Party and their supporters?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: At present these people are all in hiding. I've learned last night they burned down the house of the foreign minister. They burned and killed people from two mayors' houses. One of our good colleagues who used to work with the victims of the coup, they are all in hiding. The Haitian lawyer who is residing right now in the U.S., has attempted to rent a private plane and go to Haiti and pick up a few people who used to work and support democracy., particularly a Haitian lawyer, who conducted and lead the trial that convicted Guy Phillippe and Louis Jodel Chamblain. The U.S. denied the Haitian gov't attorney access to fly a plane into Haiti to pick them up. All the people who live in Cite Soleil, Bel Air, they are all hiding. All the victims of the Raboteau massacre had to leave Gonaive before Louis Jodel Chamblain and Jean Tatoune took over Gonaive on Feb 5. We should be calling on the U.S. to grant these Haitians political asylum. President Bush is wrong for making a statement saying he will decline asylum to any Haitians. That is a violation of human rights, it is a violation of the U.N. COnvention on Refugees, a violation of international law. We Americans should hold the U.S. gov't acocuntable for the lives of Haitians that are being lost today.
_______________________
Washington, D.C.:
How do you respond to the charges we've heard that Aristide turned Haiti into a virtual dictatorship? If true, doesn't that make removing him more politically acceptable?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: The Haitian people wouldn't classify him as a dictator. He represented the hope and dreams that the Haitian elite along with the U.S., have never wanted to see in Haiti: true participatory democracy, a democracy that respects every person's vote, a democracy that takes into account the 80% of the the Haitians who live in the rural areas, peasant farmers, who are unable to feed their children, send them to school, who are deprived of medical care, these are the people he represented. And that is the democracy the Haitian people wanted. The U.S. has deprived them of that democracy, removed their hope to get education, to provide preventive education on HIV/AIDS, the ability for them to become dependent on their own economy and self-sufficient.
_______________________
Wheaton, Md.:
What is the roll of the French soldiers in Haiti? Since we know they're not capable of deterring looters and rioters, is their roll just a sybmolic gesture of Franco-US recociliation?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: This is a slap to Haiti's democracy as we commemorate our 200 years of independence. The French gov't, along with the U.S. and Canada, team up and uprooted democracy. France will use any means to remove Aristide, the elected constitutional president, from power, to prevent the Haitian people from seeking reparations from France for the torture, denegration, that they caused to slave Africans who were in Haiti and revolted against them. The U.S. and France have always been at odds when it comes to Haiti. This gives them a perfect opportunity to reconcile their differences and set the score by saying that Haitians should not have true democracy. Removing an elected President from office indicate at what length superpowers will go to destroy the poor people.
_______________________
Alexandria, Va.:
Almost every news report I have read or heard seems to take for granted that Aristide was supported by "thugs" and was thwarting the democratic process. If your assessment of the political situation is correct, why do you think there is a lack of historical (even recent historical) context in the reports coming out of Haiti?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: The U.S media never once mentioned the fact that former soldiers along with FRAPH death squad commandos were torturing, terrorizing Haitians in Gonaive and Cap-Haitien. They'd rather focus on the people who were defending their democracy against these criminals, whom the U.S. and the so-called "peaceful" opposition supported. In every country, we deserve to have oppostions. However, not an opposition that does not support the principles of democracy, the rule of law, human life. I don't think the U.S. will want to see the truth out there, in terms of their true involvement in the creation of an opposition to destabilize democracy and undermine an elected gov't by denying him access to money that could have been used to save millions of lives and build the country's infrastructure.
_______________________
Atlanta, Ga.:
4 Questions - Answer any or all
1. What were the irregularities in the 2000 election? Were they related to the presidential election, or Senatorial elections. If they were not related the Presidential election, how can the Administration deem Aristide's presidency illegitimate, taking into account our 2000 election issues?
2. Who supplied rebel groups with there arms and has the media investigated this?
3. What is the connection between current administration and state department officials, and the Nicaraugan conflict two decades ago? This seems eerily similar.
4. What is the background of rebel leaders and is it more sinister than former President Aristide? If so, how will the U.S. support these groups should they attempt to obtain power?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: 1. For the May 2000 election, Haiti had 30,000 positions that needed to be filled. We had about 7500 cnandidates who ran for those open seats. OUt of the 30,000, only 7 Senate seats were contested. Once Mr. Aristide was inaugurated in 2001, he approached his political party and requested that those Senators resign. They did so in July 2001 to give way for the process to move forward. HOwever, the opposition came out and said, that's not what we want. We want the President to leave, which is against the peopel's will and is also unconstitutional. Based on our research, the CIA had done polling between 2001 and 2002 to test the consensus in Haiti to determine the popularity of the opposition. It should nt shock you at all to hear that they only had 4% popularity. Yet, the U.S. continued to support the opposition and give them the veto power over the negotiations process, over the formation of the C.E.P (provisional electoral council). As a result, we now have no Haitian Parliament. The Presidential election that took place in late 2000 had no bearing on the legislative elections. There were several other candidates who ran for President at the time Mr. Aristide declared his candidcay/. The Haitian people reelected him with 85% of the vote, making clear to the international community who they wanted to be their leaders. During the time of his inauguration, the opposition inaugurated a parallel gov't and called for the return of the army, who killed and tortured thousands of Haitians. The international community, inclduing the U.S. has never questioned the legitimacy of his election as President, and they recognized him as the elected offical of Haiti, and all the negotiation processes were done in a bilateral manner.
3. Same thing over again, repeating itself, wtih the added portion of removing the elected Presidnet from office at gunpoint.
_______________________
Arlington, Va.:
What are your organization's ties to the Aristide government? Did you receive funding from the Haitian government?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: No, we are a 501c3 nonprofit organization, with no ties to any foreign or U.S. government. We do not accept gov't funding from any government. The Quixote Center is a fiath-based social justice organization that has been around ofor over 25 years, and we've always worked with people who have the least resources available to them to accomplish their goals. We work for structural changes within the church and society as a whole. We hope our work will make the world a better place and that countries like the U.S. would respect other countries' ability to promote democracy without interference. We work for the Haitian people, we advocate on their behalf, for a more just U.S. foreign policy so they can have basic healthcare, education, clean water, just like every U.S. deserves. Just like the ghettos in America are neglected by the Haves, so does the poor Haitians who are the majority but yet they are controlled by 1% of the Haitian elite, who also control 48% of the country's wealth.
_______________________
Fairfax, Va.:
Are we looking at 'Democratic' Elections again?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: Democracy is the only way to move Haiti out of its impasse. It is the only process that addresses the people's need. We can't deviate from that. So therefore, we must have elections. HOwever, we have to be careful and watchful of the US administration in making certain that they do not put US citizens in power in Haiti. The Haitian constitution does not yet recognize dual citizenship in Haiti. Only Haitians who've been living inside the count5ry and have never renounced their nationality can run for President. But we are currently hearing that Andre Apaid Jr. is controlling the current process to seelect a gov't in Haiti. The US is wrong for letting a citizen of ours dictate who should be president in another sovereign country. Do you think the Democrats should be working together to illegally remove President Bush from power? If we cannot have this in the US, then how can it be acceptable for the US to remove a constitutional gov't from Haiti and deny the people their voting rights?
_______________________
Washington, D.C.:
So why didn't the US send in troops to stop the civil disorder before Aristide decided to leave?
Is it now US policy to support the backers of Papa Doc and Baby Doc?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: The US would have never sent support to assist President Aristide because they created the opposition. They've always supported every demand the opposition presented. We've seen Secretary Powell come out and say, we support the process of democracy. We don't want to overthrow an elected gov't. A few days later, a new plan was presented to Pres. Aristide, a plan that would have removed all of his power. He accepted it. The opposition rejected it and made a counter proposal that he be removed from office. Soon thereafter, Sec. Powell says, "We don't think PRes. Aristide is fit to govern Haiti." And in the blink of an eye, he was kidnapped and removed from the people who had elected him, without even giving him a chance to address them.
Yes, the US continues to show their support for Papa Doc and Baby Doc supporters, that include the former soldiers, members of FRAPH, and the Haitian elite. The US has never been interested in Haitians who are peasants, because they want to take away the land from them to build more factories, so the Haitian elite can get richer, the peasants will be forced out f their land, will have no education, and their children will be deprived of basic needs. It is also why they had rewrote the Haitian constitution in 1915 after they oocupied Haiti, making it possible for them to buy and own land in Haiti, something that the Haitian forefathers like Dessalines and Toussaint, who wrote the constitition, opposed. He said no foreigners should ever own land in Haiti.
_______________________
Washington, DC:
Reading this chat session it appears you have many criticisms of America's foreign policy towards Haiti. If you were advising President Bush, how would you suggest he handle the situation? How would you address the concerns of BOTH sides and what resolution would you deem either 'acceptable' or ?ideal' or somewhere in between?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: The way to move democracy forward is to allow every candidate, including opposition candidates, to take their place at the voting polls, and let the people choose who they believe will best represent their interests. Right now, the Bush administration needs to focusnon helping Haitians rebuild the infrastructure of the country for democracyb to move forward. That will include providing training for the Haitian police, so they can become trainers themselves, to train and hire more police officers, who can police the 8.5 million people and provide security. We must on all accounts, make certain that the US does not reconstruct the Haitian army, which they had created in 1915, and that they arrest those people who perpetrated crimes against the Haitian population. They must let the Hiatian people select their leaders and let the oppostion know that they best way for them to reach the presidency is through the voting booth.
_______________________
Falls Church, Va.:
We know that the US was behind the insurgence, but is the US interested in the rebuilding process? (Not just policing, but infrastructure)
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: SO far, it doesn't appear that the administration has any long term plan in place to help rebuild the democratic process in Haiti. If they fail to do so, we will see the same thing happening over again in perhaps another 10-15 years. Haiti as a country can no longer lose any more of her children, 60% of whom are under the age of 18. They need assistance to rebuild the country so they do not have to depend solely on US aid.
_______________________
Monterey, Calif.:
I know it's highly complex, but would you please just list the key factors -- even just as bullet points -- which create what seems to be a chronic instability in Haitian politics?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: -- Gap between the rich and poor, which keeps growing.
-- Lack of basic services (health, education, clean water, electricity, food, etc)
-- Struggle over land ownership, which has always been controlled by the elite and by the landowners in the different departments
-- International interference
-- The elite wanting to maintain control of the executive branch and the business sectors in Haiti
-- Poor people fighting for a better life, their demands clashing with the elite.
_______________________
Washington, D.C.: President Bush has declined to accept Haitians seeking political asylum in the United States for which he is being attacked. Is any country offering political asylumn to Haitians? Why? Why not?
Eugenia Charles-Mathurin: It would be great to other countries open their doors to grant asylum to Haitians so far I have not seen a list of those who are willing to take the Haitians in.
I would like to thank everyone for taking part in discussion, but I have to end the session here. if you have further questions or comments send to eugenia@haitireborn.org or call 301-699-0042. Thank you to the Washington Post and staff for having me on.
_______________________
