Frontline: Ghosts of Rwanda

Frontline (washingtonpost.com)

Frontline marks the 10th anniversary of the Rwandan genocide with "Ghosts of Rwanda," a documentary chronicling one of the worst atrocities of the 20th century. In addition to interviews with key government officials and diplomats, the two-hour documentary offers groundbreaking, eyewitness accounts of the genocide from those who experienced it firsthand: from Tutsi survivors who recount the horror of seeing their friends and family members slaughtered by neighbors and coworkers; to the U.N. peacekeepers stationed amid the carnage who were ordered not to intervene; to those holding positions of power at the White House. Through these accounts, Frontline illustrates the social, political, and diplomatic failures that enabled the slaughter of 800,000 people to occur unabated and unchallenged by the global community.

Co-producer Julia Powell will be online Friday, April 2 at 11 a.m. ET, to discuss the film.

Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.

"Ghosts of Rwanda" airs Thursday, April 1 at 9 p.m. ET on PBS (check local listings).

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Julia Powell: Thanks for being here today. We've been thrilled with the response to the film. Over the past week and a half, we've held screenings at Harvard University, The Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and the Museum of Tolerance in Los Angeles. Frontline has produced an extensive website to accompany the film at: http://www.pbs.org/frontline/shows/ghosts/.
Extended interviews, analysis, video, timelines, and related links can be found there. I'll probably refer to it often during this chat.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: I don't understand how our state department, our military, our CIA and our President could say they didn't know what was happening. Could you please explain this?

John

Julia Powell: Through the work of Will Ferroggiaro at the National Security Archives, hundreds of documents from the Pentagon, the State Department, CIA and the NSC have been released on Rwanda. They have two briefing books posted on the web. Frontline's website will get you there through a link. The documents show that the information was available internally. As Gallaird says in the film, "they were told every day" through the press. A Senior official who spoke to me on background answered your question by saying "...of course I knew. It was my job to know."

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Silver Spring, Md.: Why didn't the U.S. intervene? It seems they have their nose in everyone else's public as well as private political affairs! Why didn't the United States help those innocent people?

Julia Powell: The final pullout from Somalia happened days before the genocide started. Departing troops were rerouted and put on standby to help the americans evacuating from Rwanda. A Secretary of Defense was fired over the crisis in Somalia, the Clinton Administration was under fire for what happened. There was no appetite in Washington for intervention in Africa. In early May, a few weeks into the genocide, the White House released a new plan on when the US would engage in peacekeeping. The parameters of PDD-25, didn't include situations like Rwanda, where there was no national interest at stake.

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Chicago, Ill.: One of the most powerful and moving experience I've had watching a television program. Thank God for your organization.

Julia Powell: Thank you.

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Wappingers Falls, N.Y.:
I thought your program "Ghost of Rwanda" was a powerful look at the past.
In keeping with the message, I think a quick follow on about the ongoing tragedy in Sudan could be so valuable and helpful in the present.

Smitha

Julia Powell: I believe Human Rights Watch issued a press release today on Sudan, calling for the UN Commission on Human Rights to appoint a special rapporteur. Go to http://hrw.org/reports/2004/sudan0404/.

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Omaha, Neb.: It has become increasingly clear that we cannot rely on what Lincoln called "the better angels of our nature" That there needs to be a c-change in the UN. Do you think it is likely that there will ever be any movement to fully implement the charter. Not just in the letter of the founding agreement but in the spirit? A true UN force, a UN with teeth, a defined force structure for pro-active peacekeeping with actual rules of engagement and a defined mechanism for use so we can avoid the cambodia's rwanda's and Biafra's of the world.

Bob

Julia Powell: Kofi Annan has challenged the international community to do just that. A commission was established in Canada, to find a new context and framework for humanitarian intervention in the post-cold war world. Their work became somewhat more complicated after Sept. 11th. The commission's report on the "Responsibility to Protect" can be found on Frontline's Website. Gareth Evans, President of the ICG speaks on this issue often. His work is linked on Frontline's site as well.

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Washington, D.C.: The Rwandan genocide occurred during a significant policy shift in Clinton's foreign policy, specifically in the role that peacekeeping played in American grand strategy. Do you think the United States was prepared to intervene anywhere at this time, in light of the change of policy? And, further, how consequential was this shift? If the genocide had occurred in early 1993, would US reaction have been different?

Julia Powell: The Rwandan genocide is often referred to as "the perfect storm". Somalia was fresh, the US and UN were at odds, PDD-25 was being released, the mood in Washington was not exactly collaborative over peacekeeping issues-- it all happened at just the wrong moment in time. After Rwanda, the US did intervene in Bosnia, Haiti and Kosovo. A lot of policymakers told us this was partly due to the sense of failure over Rwanda.

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Beverly Hills, Calif.: How responsible do you think the world press is for NOT
reporting the genocide with outrage, the same outrage
they find for sordid murders, like Lacy Peterson, or silly
nonsense like Janet Jackson's breast. The press is the first
line of defence in such matters. Everyone has blame, but
the press, or parts of it, must look seriously at what they
write and what they could have done to bring a sense of
outrage to the world. They failed.

Julia Powell: I absolutely agree with you personally. Most of the media pulled out of Rwanda when the genocide started. They didn't come back until the the images of the refugee camps started airing around the world. Madeleine Albright has said that in 1994, the international 911 was always busy. That informs what's covered by journalists. Rwanda was considered too dangerous and not of great interest to the American public. We are certainly culpable. A few did stay, like Mark Doyle of the BBC. They should be commended for their work.

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Mexico City, Mexico: What do you make of the fact when the human rights observer is told in Washington that "the US has no friends, only interests". And also why did the UN limit so much the mission of Gen. Dallaire?

Julia Powell: Monique Mujayamariya said she found that statement enlightening. It probably accurately reflected the mood in Washington at the time. The late Senator Paul Simon told me that he considered holding a press conference on Rwanda but decided against it because no one would have shown up. There just wasn't any interest at all. The UN didn't have the resources or support from member states on the mission. They were hopeful that UNAMIR would set a new example after Somalia, proving that UN Peacekeeping could be successful. When the war started they feared a repeat of Mogadishu, which would have set the DPKO back even further.

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Westland, Mich.: An incredible experience. Thank you. I was especially moved by the testimony from Gen. Dallaire, Major Beardsley, Dr. Gaillard and Carl Wilkins. Also General Kagame who seems to have restored at least some degree of sanity to his country. Have any of them been recognized by any organization for their efforts?

Julia Powell: I'm not sure if any of them have been recognized in an official capacity. This is the first time that Philippe Gaillard's and Carl Wilken's stories have been broadcast. I don't believe either of their efforts were fully or widely known.

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New York, N.Y.: I just want to praise you and everyone involved in this production on the incredible job done to tell this story. I hope this documentary is being aggressively pushed into the hands of educators everywhere.

Julia Powell: Thank you. FRONTLINE has extensive educational outreach mechanisms. There is a teacher's guide posted on the website, complete with lesson plans. Take a look.

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Buffalo, N.Y.: Have you heard much reaction from the Clinton Administration Officials on the finished piece? How difficult was it to get M Albright etc to agree to interviews? Are you working on any projects now? Thank you for your important work.

Rebecca

Julia Powell: I suppose the reaction will start today. Secretary Albright writes about her Rwanda in her book. It's something she apparently feels deeply about, calling it her biggest regret while in public office. Some officials were very open and willing to talk to us. Others would not.

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Skokie, Ill.: My wife and I watched the program last night... We are actually moving to Kigali at the end of 2004. This is the first time we were exposed to the "images" of the horror. One thing we noticed during the documentary that I'd like you to comment on is the idea of evil, the devil, Satan, etc... It seemed that many people (Rwandese and American) identified the issue as demonic/inhuman. The spiritual component has often been overlooked in discussing this tragedy from an academic or media perspective - but testimonies from the documentary give a different perspective. What do you think?

Julia Powell: Everyone we spoke to talked about the eyes of the genocidaires. That it was like looking into a deep, endless, black tunnel. They can't explain it but their experiences were all the same. Pastor Carl Wilkens talks extensively about the spiritual component. I believe his interview is posted on the website.

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Poughkeepsie, N.Y.: Your effort in bringing out this tragedy is laudable..

Personally, it touched my heart and was thinking was there anything I would have done, least I know it's happening. The program doesn't show anybody taking responsibility for it, but can we dig this further so that we can analyze where it went wrong, and would help in not letting things like this happen anymore.

Just curious - do you have any control/access to those persons in UN who takes decisions in situations like this ... please ask them to apply their heart to the job not their mind.. if they know what I mean.

Thanks for all your efforts

Mano

Julia Powell: You make an important point. Do any of us really know what we would do if faced with a similar situation? Would we stand-up? Or run?

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Schaumburg, Ill.: Comment...not question. After watching your incredible documentary last night I felt overwhelmed to some how contact Gaillaird. I felt compelled to tell him "You did not fail. The USA and the world failed you and Rwanda." Somehow I hope you can relate that to him and let him know by taking part in this documentary a new generation has learned about the genocide and I personally along with my friends and colleagues will be on watch. Thank you for your work.

Julia Powell: Do you mean General Dallaire? If your interested in hearing more from him, he's written a book with Major Brent Beardlsey, called "Shake Hands with the Devil". It was number one in Canada for many weeks. He's an amazing human being.

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Petaluma, Calif.: I couldn't sleep last night thinking that now Rwanda is inhabited with hundreds of thousands of murderers. How does their government deal with all the people who participated in the killings?

Julia Powell: There is an international court trying the cases of the leaders of the genocide. There are also local courts called "gacaca", dealing with the rank and file genocidaires. There is excellent background information our website about the status and process of these two institutions. It's obviously a difficult healing process.

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Washington, D.C.: I find among friends, family, and others that many people I assumed understood the situation in Rwanda in fact misunderstood it (thinking of it in terms of a civil war). I hope that your documentary will go a long way toward dispelling myths and wrong assumptions about Rwanda.

My question to you is, in your research, interviews, etc., have you come to an understanding or realization of why this genocide happened, and what were the key causes, motives, and factors involved?

Julia Powell: The genocide was meticulously planned an executed by hardline leaders of an extremist government. It was very similar to what happened in Nazi Germany. The hardliners were being forced to share power with the largely Tutsi rebels and other moderate factions in the country. They did not want to do that.

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Chicago, Ill.: In our modern age of instant images and mass communication (especially e-mail/internet) do you think that a grassroots effort could have been made to force the issue of intervention on a humanitarian level? Would massive public outcry been enough "interest"
Thank you for your work. Gen. Dallaire is a true hero for working on against all odds. I hope he realizes that even though he believes he failed.
Heather

Julia Powell: National Security Advisor Anthony Lake told Monique and Alison des Forges of Human Rights Watch that they needed to "make more noise". Often, "noise" translates into interest, in both the government and the press. The situation in the refugee camps following the genocide created a lot of "noise" and the US Government acted almost immediately. So yes, politicians and the press often do respond to an outcry of interest.

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Baltimore, Md.: Do you think that the "juju" journalism of the 1990s that depicted conflicts in Africa as tribal oriented and primitive played a role in the way that the Clinton administration and the American public viewed the crisis in Rwanda?

Julia Powell: I'm not sure about the "juju" but yes, the depiction that this was "tribal" certainly played into the lack of response. Many of the press reports at the time, failed to call the slaughter what it really was, a carefully planned and executed genocide.

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Irving, Tex.: Sorry, I'm getting in late on this discussion......
My Question is why would our and other World Govts, and the UN have reason to believe that the RED CROSS was lying about their reports of the massacres? ?
Since when was the RED CROSS untrustworthy? ?

Julia Powell: I don't believe that the Red Cross was accused of lying. In fact, Gallaird's statements and break from neutrality were taken very seriously. It just wasn't translated into action.

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Phoenix City, Ala.: I suppose on some level I understand (NOT condone) America's reluctance to get involved in Rwanda. How could the UN not have done more to stop what happened?

Julia Powell: The international community failed Rwanda. World governments, the United Nations, the press. The UN does not have a standing army, it relies on its member states. When the Security Council finally voted to deploy more troops (six weeks in to the slaughter), none were available. Kofi Annan states he approached 80 some governments. This was an international failure.

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Julia Powell: Thanks for your questions and thanks to the Washington Post for having me here today.

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