Classical Music Forum

Tim Page is the chief classical music critic for The Washington Post and the author or editor of a dozen books, including "Dawn Powell: A Biography," "The Glenn Gould Reader," "The Unknown Sigrid Undset," "William Kapell: A Documentary Life History of the American Pianist" and the forthcoming "Tim Page on Music" (Amadeus Press). He won the Pulitzer Prize for criticism in 1997 for his writings about music for The Post.

He has also worked as an artistic adviser (the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra), a radio host (WNYC-FM in New York), a record producer (BMG Catalyst) and, in his younger days, a rock musician and cocktail pianist. A graduate of Columbia University, he lives in Washington with his wife, Julieta Stack.

A transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Tim Page: Good afternoon and welcome to another on-line discussion of classical music.

Right now I'm in Chester, Nova Scotia, typing into a computer at Julien's Pastry, which is not only the local hangout for those of us who love this village but also a splendid bakery by any standards. It is a cool windy afternoon, with strong sun, and I will be imagining myself back here many times over the course of the next year.

We have a few messages here already but can always take more. I hope to get to most of your questions today.

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Fairfax, VA: Hi Tim,
submitting early as I have a meeting. I attended the Sunday performance of Dialogues. I was disappointed in your casual dismissal of Poulenc's music as 'Stravinsky with suger'. I think he had a distinctive musical voice and one that is appealing. Certainly the orchestral portion of the opera is rich and sumptuous, although it seemed strange to hear harp glissandi, etc. accompanying plainchant-like vocal parts. And I'm not totally convinced the point was simply to glorify religious zealots. Could it have been to also castigate political extremists?

Tim Page: Thanks for your note. I'm afraid I upset a number of readers with my review of "Carmelites."

I was genuinely surprised by how little I liked the piece this time around. I've known the work for almost 30 years and might once have chosen it as a favorite opera. This time, I found the music thin, manipulative and even cloying. Oddly enough, I used to find it one of the few pieces by Poulenc I liked: now I love a lot of his music but find this particular opera less than satisfying.

What bothered me most was what I considered the opera's fanaticism. It actively glorifies martyrdom, or so it seems to me. And I find nothing glorious at all in the violent deaths of 16 young women, for whatever reason, especially since the French Revolution was over only a few months later and their sacrifice could have been avoided.

Perhaps we can post the review. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that all Catholics or even all Carmelites are fanatics: that would be as crazy and offensive as suggesting that all Muslims are fanatical because of 9/11. But I do think that Poulenc and his librettist Bernanos created an apology for religious martyrdom with this opera, and I find that extraordinarily discomforting at this moment in history.

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Bowie, Md.: Tim, can you (meaning you, personally) listen to the William Tell Overture without thinking about the Lone Ranger?

I know I always expect the Liberty Bell March to end with a "squish."

Tim Page: Yes, I can listen to that without "Lone Ranger," probably because I am too young to have heard the theme regularly on either radio or television.

I WILL admit that there are moments when the version of "Hamlet" set to songs from "Carmen" on "Gilligan's Island" comes to me unexpectedly (and unwanted).

Remember "Neither A Borrower Nor a Lender Be" set to the tune of the "Toreador Song"? I do...

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DuPont Circle, DC: I just noticed that you edited the Glenn Gould Reader. I was in Ottawa last week and stopped by the Canadian National Library to take a look at Gould's old Steinway, CD318. It has since come to my attention that many of Glenn Gould's personal papers are housed at the library. I assume that you went through these while compiling the Reader. Do you know how accessible these works are to the general public or Gould enthusiast? Thanks.

Tim Page: I would think you'd be able to get to see at least some of the material. When I was doing the Glenn Gould Reader (20 years ago!) there was no such library. But I made use of it for a pictorial biography of Gould that was published a couple of years back.

I loved the library -- and thought the librarians were enormously helpful. And Ottawa is a charming city.

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washingtonpost.com: Here is Tim's 'Carmelites' review.

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Toronto: I'm not very knowledgeable about classical music in general, but I know I'd like to buy a CD of Carmina Burana since I've heard a few different bits of it and enjoyed them immensely. Can you recommend a specific recording?

Tim Page: Orff wrote a lot of beautiful music -- I'm particularly partial to the children's songs.

My favorite "Carmina" is probably the first recording I knew, conducted by Eugen Jochum, with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Gundula Janowitz as soloists. Admittedly, Gerhard Stolze is something of an acquired taste (I think some people acquire it) but he's only in a few of the songs. This was Jochum's second recording (I heard the earlier version once but haven't played it in many years) and it came out about 1968. It has recently been reissued and still sounds terrific.

I remember Michael Tilson Thomas's version as exciting but somewhat quirky. You might look that one up too.

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Virginia: Too young to have heard the Lone Ranger theme? What, are you under 25?

Tim Page: I never heard it AS the "Lone Ranger" Theme. The radio show was in the 40s and 50s and the TV show in the 50s and early 60s. Am I wrong? Was there another version?

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Washington DC: I can't listen to Carmen without thinking about the Bad News Bears....

Tim Page: I've been told that "Carmen" is used in that film. Amazing what a film or a TV reference can do for -- and to -- a piece!

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Tim Page: It's a very slow day today.

I've been traveling quite a lot this summer and I know that there are people around the country who tune in to these chats. If there's something you've always wanted to ask, you've pretty much got my undivided attention today.

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Alexandria, VA: Not a question - just wanted to say how much I enjoy these chats. Even though I don't run right out and buy every CD you recommend, I feel I learn something each time I log on. Thank you!;

Tim Page: Thanks ever so much. I like doing these chats, too. It's a wonderful way to keep in touch with people.

I'm getting some more responses to some of those commercials we'd like to forget!

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Lone Ranger: Of course, the William Tell Overture was later used in ads for Lark cigarettes -- "Have a Lark, have a Lark, have a Lark today...." and Geno's Pizza Rolls.

Then for a different piece, there's always "No more Rice Krispies!; We're all out of Rice Krispies!;"

Tim Page: Oh yes -- I remember the last of those. Set to "Vesti la giubba"...

This takes me back!

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Washington DC: Since you've been in both St Louis and New York...

My introduction to classical music came from late-night listening to KFUO in St Louis about 20 years ago. The first broadcast was a canned program from New York called "Starlight Concert" with Bill Hanson. Mio Babino Caro was the theme music.

The second program was a local one called "Night Music" with Linwood Smith. Its theme music was Debussy's Nocturnes (Nuages). After this program, the station went off the air with Barber's Adagio.

Hard to believe I used to stay up until 2am to hear all this (I was in college), but I learned a lot of new music this way. Did you know either of these men from your stays in St Louis and New York?

Tim Page: The first radio show I listened to regularly was out of Hartford and called "Your Box At The Opera" on WTIC. The theme was the "fate" motive from "Carmen."

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Texas: Re: Lone Ranger

I dunno, but was born in 1965. I gather you're fairly close to my age.

I certainly heard the WT Overture enough growing up to have it firmly embedded in my mind as the Lone Ranger song. Maybe reruns of the tv show on Saturdays?

Tim Page: It may well have been reruns. I knew it was the theme to "Lone Ranger" but never really associated it with the show, which wasn't something I watched.

I DO remember Leonard Bernstein telling us to listen to "William Tell" and to try not to think of the "Lone Ranger" while we listened. Those "Young Peoples Concerts" were great.

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Edina, MN:
On vacation last week I read Molto Agitato by Johanna Fiedler, which is a history of the Metropolitan Opera. Lot's of scandalous stuff in it, but there was plenty more she left out. Considering that and the new Pavarotti book, it seems to me that the world has been waiting for a "reality" TV series about an opera company. Besides the criminal justice system, where would you find so much mahem, scandal and multiple story lines in the US(Other than Congress or maybe the Pentagon)?

Tim Page: That reality TV show idea is a great one. But I can't believe television could show all that really goes on behind the scenes. We're not ready for that!

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New York, NY: Can you recommend a good biography of Charles Ives, please?

Tim Page: I remember a good book about Ives by Jan Swafford -- the title mentioned something about a father. I don't have my library here so I can't give you much more information than that.

Henry Cowell wrote a good smart study of Ives in the early 1950s -- the first book on Ives, I think.

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Lone Ranger, USA: Those of us born after the 60's still experienced this show in re-runs. Perhaps you spent your summers doing something else.

Tim Page: I was never really a fan of Westerns on TV. I was more of a Three Stooges buff.

Their theme was "Listen to the Mocking Bird" done up as high comedy. If you ever track down the original song, though, it is a very mournful song and quite affecting -- a lament for a lost loved one.

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Chicago, IL: Speaking of opera and classical music references in the popular culture - one can't forget Andy Griffith's synopses of "Carmen" and "Swan Lake" from his early stand-up days... You'll never listen to them the same way again.

Tim Page: I don't remember those -- I'll have to track them down.

Remember Spike Jones and what he did to "Pal Yat-Chee"?

I suddenly realized I didn't answer the person who wrote in about the radio shows. No, I'm afraid I didn't know either host. But I, too, used to wait up late to tune into a show on historic opera recordings on WGBH in the mid-60s. You learn a lot that way.

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Classical music in pop culture: Raising my hand as a Gen Xer who first heard "The Barber of Seville" on Bugs Bunny cartoons. For the record, I'm an active classical music listener unlike a lot of people my age (a darn shame, too). If I recall correctly, Andante.com, an online classical music mag, even had an essay once about the very phenomenon of kids getting their first exposure to opera through that wascally wabbit.

Tim Page: Yes -- and the NSO does programs of Bugs Bunny symphonies out at Wolf Trap. A neat mix of music and nostalgia.

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Lansdale, PA.: Just to share this concerning movies and music: in my college music appreciation class, after the instructor played the ?Habanera' from Carmen, a friend was amazed that this was the song ?I lost my shirt' from the Marx Brothers ?Cocoanuts'. Certainly '2001' has affected almost everyone's perception of Also Sprach Zarathustra.

Tim Page: That's right! I haven't seen "Coconuts" in so many years but the song came right back to me.

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Washington DC: Speaking of movies: the Mozart Piano Concerto No. 21 has long been marketed as the "Elvira Madigan" Theme. I remember hearing Jim Svejda (of the radio program "The Record Shelf") say something tongue in cheek about how brilliant Mozart was to have written a movie theme over a century before the invention of the movie camera.

Speaking of traveling: Have you got a satellite radio in your car yet? One would be great on a drive to Canada. I have Sirius and absolutely love it. Best thing a music-lover can have.

Tim Page: I did an article a few years back about the Pittsburgh Symphony's rather dumb way of marketing its season. They called the "Marriage of Figaro" Overture the "Theme to the Pork Commercial"!

I don't drive but I'll bet my oldest boy knows all about Sirius. He has about 500 albums on his IPOD, which is one neat and weird little contraption.

I wonder how much longer I'll need my record collection...

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Washington, D.C.: 1. Charles Ives: A Life With Music by Jan Swafford

2. Charles Ives, "My Father's Song": A Psychoanalytic Biography by Stuart Feder

Tim Page: Many thanks. Can't trust the old memory any more.

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library land: Swafford, Jan / Charles Ives : a life with music. / 1st ed. / New York / 1996

Cowell, Henry, 1897-1965 / Charles Ives and his music. / New York / 1983(1969)

Tim Page: And thanks to you, too!

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Lansdale, PA: Many Stooges shorts used ?Three Blind Mice' also comically arranged with ?wah-wah' trumpets and feline violin glissandi.

Tim Page: Yes, but that song isn't as tragic -- unless you're a mouse missing its tail.

Such strange music they used way back when!

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Lugano, CH: Carmina Burana: If you don't already know it, you should listen to the Thielemann recording from 1999--thrillingly full of passion.

Tim Page: I'll bet Thielemann would do a good "Carmina." I'll have to track it down.

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Anywhere, U.S.A.: Dear Tim, on behalf of your readers, thank you very much for these chats. We appreciate it that you've braved ice and snow, horrid humidity, thunderstorms, and suburban shopping malls to keep these appointments, and contribute a bit to our cultural literacy. Your next ice tea (or G&T) should be on us.

Thanks to your Post teammate(s), too.

Tim Page: Thanks much! They are a blast to do. I always try to mention something about the day or the weather or the venue -- I think it adds a certain homey touch.

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Bethesda, MD: Not a question, but a reminder in case TV flies under someone else's radar besides my own: PBS is broadcasting Simon Rattle with the Berlin Phil. tonight at 10.

Tim Page: Glad to pass this on. Man, did they put on a great show the last time they came through town!

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Ravinia, IL: Tim, I've recently heard the CSO and Christoph Eschenbach give a riveting performance of Mahler's 8th. How is Eschenbach doing in Philidelphia and is there any scuttlebut about the next CSO Music Director?
Thanks

Tim Page: I hear mixed things about Eschenbach and Philadelphia. I'd like to hear the orchestra again -- and check out the sound at the Kimmel Center a second time.

I believe James Levine is opening his BSO tenure with the Mahler Eighth this fall.

It's a very unfashionable choice, I know, but that may be my favorite Mahler.

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Washington, DC: How's your cyrstal ball? I'm going to see Andreac Chenier for the first timeat WashOp later this year.

I've only heard the recorded opera once years and years ago--Tibaldi and Delmonico I believe. I recall it was stunning. Is my memory going to be served well by this production?

Tim Page: I can't predict this particular future. "Andrea" generally stands or falls on its singers. We might do better than del Monaco (who seems to me something of a yeller) but I doubt we'll come close to Tebaldi. Haven't heard anybody like her lately.

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Chicago, IL: Tim,
In reading obits of Kleiber, I noticed that he performed the works of George Butterfield, a composer I'm not familiar with. What was he known for and why was it attractive to Kleiber, who conducted so few pieces?
Thanks

Tim Page: I have no idea. Can anybody help us out?

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Austin, TX: Okay, if it's a slow day and you're looking for questions....

Even a non-expert like me is aware of German classical music (BBB). English classical music (Handel, etc., who was at least sort of English). French classical music (Debussy, Saint-Saens). Italian opera. Different periods, etc., but if you mention one of those countries, some composers come to mind.

What about Spain? I don't think I've ever heard of a Spanish classical music composer.

Tim Page: Probably the best of them was Enrique Granados, who went down on the British ocean liner Sussex in 1916 after it was torpedoed. I've hardly ever heard anything by Granados that wasn't beautifully made and very poignant.

Isaac Albeniz and Manuel de Falla are two other Spanish composers who come to mind immediately.

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Houston, TX: Do you get to hear many orchestras outside of the "majors"? Who is out there that has you thinking, "Wow, more people need to hear this orchestra?"

Tim Page: I wish I got to hear more concerts outside of D.C. Most of the middle-rank orchestras don't travel much.

I will say that I think the Pittsburgh Symphony, on the strength of its last trip to Washington, must be ranked among the very best orchestras in the country. That's about as much news as I can offer on this subject.

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Lexington KY: Since you brought up the subject of Henry Cowell--it made me think that it's been a long time since I've heard any of his piano pieces. Any recommendations on which CDs to buy?

Tim Page: I remember a Cowell piano disc from about 20 years ago, on Finnadar, I think. Doris Hays was the pianist, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure there are some more recent performances, too.

He's an interesting composer, especially in his early work.

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Tim Page: And I'm afraid that will have to be it for today. I'll be back in touch in another two weeks. These chats are always a pleasure and I thank those of you who came to my rescue this afternoon with some memories.

I'll leave you with these words:

"No more Rice Krispies...We've run out of Rice Krispies..."

Speak with you soon!

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