Those telemarketing calls that disrupt your dinner -- even after the 'Do
Not Call Registry' -- are a major pain. But it could be worse: you could be on
the other end of the line making $9 an hour.
Wells Tower, whose article "Making the Call" appeared in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine, was online Monday, Jan. 26 at 1 p.m. ET to field questions and comments about the article and the telemarketing industry.
Tower is a frequent contributor to the Magazine.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Wells Tower: Greetings. Many thanks to all of you for reading the piece and for taking the time to write in. We've got a healthy stack of questions (and passionate opinions on the telemarketing controversy) here, and I'll try to get to as many as I can in the next hour.
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Washington, D.C.:
Very interesting article. I have a question perhaps you could answer. Is it better to hear the sales pitch and then say you're not interested, or should you interrupt at the beginning to decline the pitch, thereby saving the caller some time and effort? I don't want to be rude to the telemarketers, but I can't decide which option is more polite. Thanks!
Wells Tower: The telemarketers I spent time with expressed a range of feelings on the subject. Some said, "I just wish people would take the time to hear what I've got to say." Others said they appreciated it when uninterested parties simply hung up and let them save their breath, though many said that being peremptorily hung up on was the most demoralizing part of the job. Before doing the story, I myself used to say rather unpleasant things to telemarketers who called me at home, but having seen what it's like on the other end, I now try to cut them off politely at the beginning of the pitch: "I'm awfully sorry but I don't want to waste your time. I don't take calls from telemarketers."
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Mt. Rainier, Md.:
Thanks for a generous story on real human beings. I am still going to say no in the politest way possible (as long as I have a chance to), and I am still going to hope that telemarketing as we know it can be put out of business. But it's good to have an answer to the demonization of the people doing the job. We should be attacking the corporate drive to invade our homes, not the low-wage people compelled to do it.
washingtonpost.com: Making the Call (Post, Jan. 25)
Wells Tower: You've hit on what I was hoping would come through as the piece's central theme: that while telemarketing may be a nuisance, it's not the people on the other end of the line who are willfully trying to invade your privacy. Again and again, the TSRs told me they wished people understood that all they we're trying to do is pay their bills. This may be a cold comfort to those of us who get calls at dinnertime, but yes, it's the companies who deserve your ire, not the folks making the calls.
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Charlotte, N.C.:
You know what bothers me the most about telemarketing? They are using a medium I pay for to try to sell to me! At least with junk mail, they're PAYING to mail it. Perhaps if telemarketers wanted to pay for part of people's phone services, they might be a tad less annoying. Well, maybe not.
It also irks me that they always have their numbers and names blocked on the caller ID. If they are legitimate businesses, why wouldn't they want that info known? I feel that telemarketers should have to identify themselves that way.
Can you tell I hate telemarketing?
Wells Tower: You're certainly not alone there, and I understand your irritation in being called on a line you're paying for. In the FCCs defense, they have been pretty diligent in regulating against calls to cell phones and pagers and other services for which the person being called would be charged for the call.
As far as the blocked ID goes, a lot of people opt for the phone feature that refuses calls from blocked IDs. In fact, this was one of the products RDI was selling, a sort of obvious irony. As one rep put it, "It's kind of weird trying to sell people something to defend themselves against someone like me."
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Silver Spring, Md.:
Most people are irritated by telemarketers, that much is true. Is $18k per year (base wages) and a flexible schedule worth getting disrespected by the rude people who answer the phone? Or is the $18k worth getting yelled at by a twenty-something who tells you that if you don't sell something, your day "isn't going to go well?" I actually felt sorry for some of these people.
Wells Tower: The industry's turnover rates (which as I mentioned in the piece crested in recent years at 120%) indicate that for many people the flexibility and pay are hardly worth the stress and abuse that come with the job. But I'd also point out that very few people are interested in making careers as telemarketers. The people I spoke with said it wasn't a bad way to earn a few bucks until they could find something better. And perhaps unsurprisingly, the disrespect the reps had to put up with didn't really seem to get them down. Thin-skinned people tend not to last in a call center. For those who can inure themselves to the abuse, telemarketing's not a bad way to make a dollar, at least until a more fulfilling option comes along.
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Lyme, Conn.:
Bill collectors are not as regulated as telemarketers. Yet, I am inundated several times a day by phone calls from bill collectors who have the wrong phone number. I used to call and tell bill collectors that my number is not the party they seek, yet, several months later, apparently the uncollected bills are sold to another collecting agency and the phone calls start all over again. Surprisingly, five years later, the calls continue. Can anything be done?
Wells Tower: You should probably ask someone who has a better grasp of the particulars of telephone commerce than I do. I'd start by rasing the issue with the companies that are calling you, which I'm sure you've already done. Beyond that, I'm not sure. My guess is that this isn't something the FCC is specifically regulating, but it might be worth giving them a call.
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Bowie, Md.:
Aren't you being just a bit of an unwitting (presumedly) stooge of this industry that wastes our time by abusing the phone service WE'RE paying for in our homes.
If it weren't for the "on the other end of the line there's a real-live person with feelings who needs to earn a living" issue, most of us would just curse out every call that came in. Don't you think RDI granted you the access it did so you could write just the kind of story you wrote, to induce just the kind of feelings they wanted the readers to get out of the piece?
Wells Tower: Good question, though I'd take issue with "the stooge" remark. My interest in doing the story wasn't to make a case for the telemarketing industry, but to try to complicate the conversation about it. The point that telemarketers are annoying has been made again and again in the national press, and writing a feature that takes that stance wouldn't, in my opinion, have shed much new light on things. My only interest in the piece was to take readers to a place they might not have known much about, and to introduce them to a few people and stories they might not have considered before.
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Monterey, Calif.:
The argument that we should permit telemarketers to interrupt, annoy, and bombard us with their calls so that they can earn a living has no merit whatsoever.
We live in a country where, in many cases, our fellow Americans do their best to soak us for every penny we have and pressure us to buy things we don't need. A clear line is being drawn here, thank god, and it should be respected and supported and a critical, essential reinforcement of a boundary.
Wells Tower: I agree with you entirely, and I'm totally in favor of the do-not-call registry. I'm on it myself. I don't think the piece makes the argument that we should let telemarketers pester us; merely that whatever fury those calls evoke in us are better directed at the companies than the people who depend on the job to make ends meet.
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Alexandria, Va.:
I telemarketed long-distance service for about a month or so one summer in college. It was partly to make some cash before leaving for England, and partly as a favor to family friends who'd ill-advisedly bought into a franchise. Anyway, at the end of the month (I started on their first day open), I was the only original employee left. On the other hand, I compiled a lot of great details for my writing. Names, comments, little stories, etc. I swore never to do that job again but it did have its moments.
Wells Tower: Thanks for the comment.
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New York, NY:
Can you explain how turnover rates could be 120%? If everyone quits within a certain time period, that's 100%. How can more than 100% quit?
Wells Tower: If you have your entire work-force quit, and then you rehire and an additional 20% of those folks bail out, that's where the 120% comes from.
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Hanover, Md.:
You mentioned that there is a fine for telemarketers calling your house when you are on the Do Not Call list. Who do you call when that happens? I have been on the list since it's inception, and the calls dropped significantly. However, recently I have been receiving many more calls. I had one last week from 1st Guarantee Mortgage company from Saratoga Springs, NY where the guy almost cursed me out. I found out their phone number and spoke to a supervisor. I also have the number of the NY Banking Association. Do you recommend that I call them with my complaint?
Wells Tower: You can go to www.donotcall.gov, and they have explicit instructions on how to pursue a complaint.
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Cottage City, Md.:
The people you write about are interesting, worthwhile, even compelling. But their jobs have only one plus: They're legal. While you don't mention it in your article, there is a real good chance that the lady they reeled in who was confused and tentative was just connived out of money she could ill-afford to lose for a product she had no need of. By doing it over the phone, the corporate lords can hope to avoid the precautions of caretakers and relatives who would otherwise protect the elderly and the gullible. It's legal but it's hardly ethical. (Yes, just one of many professions meeting that low bar)
Wells Tower: I agree, though I think you could probably make the same argument about sales generally. A salesperson's goal (in whatever medium they do their selling) isn't to figure out whether you need the product they're selling, it's to convince you that you need it, whether you do or not. And yes, the "assumptive" selling strategies telemarketer's use (that is charging through a pitch as though you'd called them wanting the product) can feel like a bit a hustle, albeit a legal one. If you're not sufficiently willful, or on your toes, you may wind up agreeing to purchase a product you've got no interest in, which with good reason enrages people.
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Washington, D.C.:
Great, interesting article. I myself was a telemarketer for about three months in college. I found it a decent paycheck, but definitely a soul-sapping method of making ends meet.
Telemarketing as a job is an interesting social experiment. Pitching caller id systems, add-on phone services, etc. changes you...and not for the better. But, you understand a bit better the pressures of sales, which probably helped motivate me to continue and finish college. I'm also bit more polite (though still very firm) to the telemarketers, I'm sure.
washingtonpost.com: Making the Call (Post, Jan. 25)
Wells Tower: Thanks for the comment. I think "soul sapping" is a phrase that would resonate with a lot of the folks working the phones at RDI. Sure, you do make a few bucks above minimum wage, but it also requires you to be more intellectually invested in the work than flipping burgers. I got on the phones myself for a couple of hours and found that they passed very, very slowly.
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New York, NY:
One thing that infuriates me is what the manager called the ABC approach--always be closing, and act "assumptive." What this means is they think they know your needs better than you do. Get your hands out of my wallet and stop trying to spend my money. This kind of arrogance is why so many people despise telemarketing, and have no sympathy for their whining after the implementation of the Federal Do Not Call list. (And no telemarketer rep should reference "Glengarry Glen Ross"--those characters are scum and clearly meant to be seen as such.)
I will say, I felt sympathy for the telemarketers themselves--they seem like hard workers who are genuinely trying to make a better life for themselves.
Wells Tower: As I said in the previous comment, the assumptive selling tactics hardly endear telemarketing to many people, and in fact, it was amazing to me how frequently they wound up producing sales. I myself tend hang up pretty brusquely when I feel like I'm being railroaded through a script. Why anyone would stick with it was a bit of mystery to me.
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Gettysburg, Pa.:
Hi there,
I loved your article!
I am a telemarketer, 22, full-time college
student. I take inbound calls only but I have a
lot of sympathy for the outbound crew.
Do you believe that telemarketers have
effectively been demonized in the media and by
the politicians? I mean really--we're not evil,
but sometimes the people on the other end of
the line treat us like we're some sort of sub-
species, and maybe that's somewhat connected
to the way we're potrayed. I mean, there is no
campaign for the respectful treatment of
telemarketers...It's almost as if the inherent
nature of the occupation gives people the
license to treat us like the gum on their shoes.
I thought your article really handled the topic
well--especially when you compare
telemarketing with some of the other entry-
level jobs. We are just people trying to make a
living, doing what we're told in order to keep
our jobs. I need my job to pay for my car and
school--I don't look at myself in the mirror
every day and say "Time to go annoy the hell
out of customer today."
Wells Tower: I would say that there hasn't been much sympathetic media coverage of what telemarketers themselves are going through on the phones every day, but I would also agree that the rage people feel at having their privacy invaded by sales calls is absolutely justified. If anyone ought to be demonized, it's our government whose free-market leanings allowed companies to pester people for as long as they did. European countries, as I understood it, never gave marketers the sort of leeway they've enjoyed in this country.
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Gettysburg, PA:
The turnover rate is extremely high. For the 15
months I've been a telemarketer, I've seen
more faces come and go than I can count.
Some last a few weeks. If they have enough
fortitude they'll last a few months. If they're
good at sales, don't personalize rejection, and
still need their job, they'll last longer.
Wells Tower: Thanks for the comment.
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Alexandria, Va.:
do telemarketers operate outside of the us while targetting americans at home?
Wells Tower: I believe that they do. Telemarketing is beginning to shift increasingly toward offshore call centers, where prevailing wage rates are much lower.
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Somewhere, USA:
Can businesses be placed on the Do Not Call list? Several times a year, a national telephone company that shall remain anonymous calls all the numbers in our department, asking if we're interested in residential service. We've told the callers many times that they're calling a business, and they seem genuinely surprised. Despite our requests to be taken off the list, the calls still keep coming.
Wells Tower: I'd check www.donotcall.gov for this one.
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Horseheads, N.Y.:
When a female telemarketer calls and I ask her what
she is wearing, it seems like about half of them enjoy
the flirting and the other half are disgusted. Do
male telemarketers experience flirtation, and is it fun
or annoying?
Wells Tower: Female telemarketers I spoke with said they encountered this sort of thing pretty often and they were almost always creeped out by it. I don't think male telemarketers get many come-ons, though several people said they often call people who ply them with religious conversion spiels.
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Arlington, Va.:
Just a comment. I agree that the companies the decide to use telemarketing and other invasive and annoying techniques to peddle their products deserve most of our ire. But I do not think the people manning the phones should get off the hook. I lump them with any number of employees of organizations I find offensive -- porn video stores, strip clubs, the creeps that try to hand you call girl numbers in places like the Strip in Vegas and French Quarter in New Orleans. Do they have a right to make a buck? Sure. Do they have the right to annoy me and invade my privacy? No way. Should maybe some of them think about getting into another line of work? Probably, and if they did, I suspect the world would be a better place.
Wells Tower: Point taken. Thanks for the remark.
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Gaithersburg, Md.:
I have much more respect for telemarketers thanks to your article but i have one question. We are on the National Do Not Call List but we still get called. When does it go into effect?
Wells Tower: The list went into effect in October, though I'm not certain how frequently it's updated. If you're still getting calls, visit the FCCs website.
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Rockville, Md.:
Surveys: I know survey calls don't fall under the telemarketing category, but what recourse do I have for a music survey company who have continued calling after 3 times of asking to be removed from their call list? I'm at my wit's end with these folks?
Wells Tower: If the surveys are being conducted on behalf of a non-profit, you may be out of luck. But if I were you, I'd request as much information as you can about the company and take that info to the FCC to see if you've got an actionable gripe.
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Somewhere, USA:
While we're being sympathetic to all those poor, poor souls who accidentally made the mistake of choosing a telemarketing job over getting an education and a real job, can we stop and have a little sympathy for the people they basically swindling? Assumptive selling is a nice fancy jargon term, but we all know what it really means. Telemarketers prey on the weak minded and the weak willed to sell them things they don't want or need.
It's different than ordinary pressure sales, because of the outcall nature of it. If I go into a car dealership and get hyped up and pay too much for my car, at least I have a car, which is presumably what I went to the dealership for. But I can be sitting in my living room minding my own business, not needing or wanting anything, and ten minutes later, I have a new Mastercard with a ridiculous protection charge and a $20 fee to get it to me today. One is ethically sketchy, the other is pretty much theft.
Wells Tower: Thanks for the remark. You're hitting on a point that has come up a few times in the conversation here, and I think the person who characterized "assumptive" selling as a legal swindle echoes what a lot of us feel about the practice. Yes, you could probably make the point that sales, broadly speaking, is the art of the hustle, but when you get unsolicited calls at home, it comes across as considerably more invasive and aggressive.
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Boston, Mass.:
Just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful piece.
Your comment earlier in the chat that (some) telemarketers find it frustrating and demoralizing to be cut off before having a chance to get through their pitch was surprising to me -- I always say "thank you for calling, but I'm not interested" and hang up immediately, thinking I was doing them a favor.
I'd like to be polite and let them say their pitch, but frankly, I don't have the time.
I hope your piece stops even small percentage of the population who think it's great fun to curse at or have fun with people working the thankless job of telemarketing.
Wells Tower: Many thanks for the remark. I think a quick hangup is a fine way to go, though reps do tend appreciate a quick pleasantry before you ring off.
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Somewhere, USA:
I do feel sorry for telemarketers, and despite the
fact that I refuse on principle to buy anything from
them, I try to be polite. At least half of the time,
however, I get verbally abused by the telemarketer.
They'll call me names, etc. Once I asked to speak to
a supervisor and the salesguy on the other end told
me no. I finally hung up on him (after telling him I
wasn't interested 5 times) and he called me back to
yell at me. I wish your article had addressed the
other side of the issue - there's a reason I hate
telemarketers besides the fact that they interrupt my
dinner!
Wells Tower: Thanks for writing in. Sounds like a frustrating experience. That sort of behavior would get you immediate dismissal at RDI, though a few of the reps I talked with said they'd worked for less reputable firms where TSRs would harangue the folks they were calling with impunity. And your point is well taken that the piece focused largely on the lives of the TSRs, but to provide the sort of depth we wanted to, I'm afraid those folks stories were all we had room for.
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Wells Tower: It looks as though we're just about out of time. Thanks again for all of these comments, and for taking the time to chat.
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