Inside the IRS

Richard Yancey, author of "Confessions of a Tax Collector," joined the IRS as a revenue officer in 1991. In the book, Yancey details how working at one of America's most powerful institutions changed his life forever.

Read the article and then read some of his tips for staying out of trouble with the government.

Before joining the Internal Revenue Service, Yancey worked as a ranch hand, typesetter, convenience store clerk and manager, cashier, adjunct professor of English, actor, director, playwright, theater reviewer and newspaperman. He was hired by the IRS in 1991, and worked as a Revenue Officer for twelve years, specializing in complex enforcement techniques and taxpayer accounts involving fraud and illegal tax protester activity. Yancey is also the author of "A Burning in Homeland."

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

________________________________________________

Herndon, Va.: Mr. Yancey, I've read several articles which state the IRS could do a better job of catching "cheaters" if its staff was increased - and this would be cost-effective due to the increase in money it would bring in. Do you agree?

Richard Yancey: Absolutely. For years all of us complained about the Service pouring money into all sorts of programs that were obsolete before they even came online, and ignoring the shortages in personnel. Even now, we don't have half as many revenue officers as the work demands.

_______________________

Monterey, California: Your book sounds wonderful.

The Harper Collins summary of your book had this paragraph:

"In this secretive, paranoid culture, built around the premise of war, Yancey became a revenue officer, the man who gets in his car, drives to your house, knocks on the door, and makes you pay. Never mind that his car is littered with candy wrappers, his palms are sweaty, and he can't remember where he stashed his own tax records. He's there on the authority of the United States government."

What does "based around the premise of war" mean?

Is there any chance that this same premise fuels our government more generally?

Richard Yancey: I don't know what it's like in other agencies (even THEY hate the IRS), but I will say the "culture of conflict" that permeated my early years with the Service changed a great deal since the passage of the Revenue Restructuring Act of 1998. Now the IRS is kindler and gentler . . . to a certain degree.

_______________________

Anonymous: Please pick any or all...

Has the IRS or the government tried to stop your book in any way?

Did you need to bend any confidentiality agreements to write it. Any comments from other IRS agents?

Richard Yancey: I quit before they could stop me! The reaction of my former coworkers has been, in general, one of shock. I'm telling the family secrets . . .

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: Thanks for the helpful tips and for taking my question.

I had a friend who's business was audited a few years ago. After the audit was concluded, the IRS found that they actually owed him a fairly large sum. How common is this?

Richard Yancey: I've heard it's not at all uncommon, but audits aren't really my forte. I didn't crunch numbers. I crunched people.

_______________________

Harrisburg, Pa.: Is it true that lower income taxpayers actually are more likely to be audited than higher income taxpayers - despite the perception that the opposite is the case? Or was that recent news report stating that was the case inaccurate? If it is correct, why would a lower percentage of higher incomes not be subject to audits?

Richard Yancey: The word inside the Service used to be that lower-income taxpayer's were audited more, but I heard those reports second and third-hand. A lot of press was generated when the Service started a HUGE program to chase down cheats on the Earned Income Tax Credit, who tended to be lower-income people.

_______________________

Anonymous: You say your "years with the Service changed a great deal since the passage of the Revenue Restructuring Act of 1998." How did it change?

Richard Yancey: Congress passed the law in reaction to testimony of strong-armed tactics of the IRS. Most of the stories (under oath, by the way) turned out to be exaggerated or downright false. Nevertheless, now every revenue officer lives under the cloud of the "10 Deadly Sins", and seizures, for example, are at an all-time low.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: What kind of reactions did you get when you told people they were being audited? Were there any scary moments?

Richard Yancey: I think I told someone else on the forum I didn't audit; I collected. Most people dreaded my knock on the door and treated me accordingly. Imagine someone coming into your house and telling you how to live so you can pay The Man. And, yes, there were a lot of scary moments. I've been spat on, kicked, punched and called some names that would make a Marine blush . . . but it wasn't all bad. There was always the thrill of the chase and when I was able to "get" the bad guys (and I worked a lot of bad guys) that was great fun.

_______________________

Richmond, Virginia: In your tips, you suggest that people not lie. But doesn't everyone lie a bit? Isn't one paying more than his or her fair share by being perfectly honest?

Richard Yancey: Um, don't lie. Most "horror" stories you hear about the IRS begins with a lie --- and it's not the IRS's lie.

_______________________

Ballston, Va.: So how bad is the social stigma associated with being a figure of evil?

I'm just teasing about the evil part, but tell us the truth: Have you ever lost out on getting a date once the woman found out that you were a tax collector? Or is it like the vampire phenomenon -- are there some women who find IRS agents alluring?

Richard Yancey: I'm sure there are some out there who do --- I just never ran into any . . . I happen to think there's a certain allure to power, even if it comes from the Dark Side.

_______________________

Northern California: " I didn't crunch numbers. I crunched people."

How did the IRS actually/officially "train" you to crunch people? Did they specifically talk about intimidation and/or to leverage the fear which many people have of the IRS?

Richard Yancey: You learn very quickly that you don't have to threaten or remind people of the IRS's power to get what you wanted from them. The simple rules I learned (and these weren't contained in any training material) were: 1. Find what they love, and take it and/or 2. Discover what they fear and exploit it. Every incident I talk about in the book illustrates this essential truth.

_______________________

College Park, Md.: I received unemployment compensation in 2003. On the 1040EZ, there is a separate line to enter unemployment compensation apart from wages. However, on the line where I state how much I've paid in federal taxes, it says that I should get this amount from my W2's. Taxes were taken out of my unemployment compensation (as shown on my 1099), so am I right to include those paid taxes with the taxes taken out of my wages?

Richard Yancey: Consult a tax professional or call the IRS help number. I hardly know how to prepare my own return!

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: I am about to graduate college with a degree in accounting and finance. I am assuming you were a tax auditor for the IRS. What kind of money does a tax auditor for the IRS make? Do they make more or less than an auditor who works for one of the Big 4?

Richard Yancey: You can find out by going either to the IRS site (irs.gov) or the opm site, which lists all jobs and their salaries.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Tell us about some of your experiences with the tax protestor crowd. Were any of them at all creative, or do they just repeat the same nonsensical theories that have been done to death? Are they primarily organized anti-government militia sympathizers, or ordinary idiots who got taken in by a scam? Were you ever threatened, or subjected to their pseudo-legal proceedings in some "common-law" militia court?

Richard Yancey: About half the book deals with the protestors (we called them ITPs) Most of the ones I came in contact with were the poor saps who listened to the promoters' hype. A couple were pretty hard core, and I finally decided to use a pseudonym to protect my identity. A couple were pretty creative, but most of it was tiresome nonsense that's all over the internet. I was threatened several times but, thankfully, never came to any physical harm. Most of all, I had fun.

_______________________

Nederland, Colo.: Are IRS efforts to pursue tax dodgers at all proportional to the wrongfully withheld taxes? Roughly speaking, how many billions dollars are withheld by corporations with off-shore P.O. boxes and other dodges, versus how many millions are withheld by individuals? How much does the IRS spend on both problems --that is, do the IRS efforts have close to the same ratio of money as do the lost revenue problem sources? Thank you.

Richard Yancey: They never shared those kind of statistics with me. I was a foot soldier, but from what I heard before I left, the IRS WAS focusing more on these corporations hiding billions in off-shore accounts. Of course, employment taxes have been --- and probably always will be --- the chief focus of IRS collection efforts, because they represent monies withheld in trust by the employer.

_______________________

Mclean, Va: Sir,
My mother recently passed away due to complications from alcohol addiction. With that addiction came a form of paranoia in that she did not open any mail including IRS notices. She also had not filed any taxes since 1993, not that she owed anything and probably might even have gotten a refund with itemized deductions. The IRS has already levied her bank account at around 10K and put a lien on property that was in a trust that now belongs to my sister and I. I contacted the IRS collections personnel as soon as possible in order to resolve the issues, however they stated that this department could not help me and would be referring the case to someone else. It has been over a month and that "someone" has not contacted me and I was getting the feeling that the agent I spoke to was unsure in what direction to go. Rather then go back and file 10 years of taxes I would like to just call it even and let the government keep what they already have and have them remove the lien from the property(approximately 20k). In order to close th books on my mother do think that the government would accept this and what office could I contact to start...

Richard Yancey: Get a form 911 from you local IRS office and request some immediate relief from collection efforts.

_______________________

California: The level of automation at the IRS seems overwhelming. Were your collection assignments more or less "spit out by a computer" for you to follow up on, or was there discussion among human beings of each case first?

Richard Yancey: When I first came on board there was a lot more human involvement in the assignment of cases. Now everything is assigned what the IRS calls a "risk code," and managers are bound to assign out cases based on their codes.

_______________________

Bethesda, Md.: Can you tell us about one of the most extreme instance in which you had to take away someone's most loved possession or exploited their fears?

Richard Yancey: This wasn't in the book, but a few years after I moved north, I seized a 7,000 sq. ft. mansion on top of a mountain. The guy was ignoring me so I decided to seize his house. I had no idea, though, that he was separated from his wife, had moved out of the mansion, and she had just suffered from a terrible fall that had broken both her legs. So I knock on the door and she opens it and I say, "I'm with the IRS and I'm taking your house today." And the really scary thing is, I slept pretty good that night. That shows how numb I had become --- or how numb you have to be to work there . . . anyway, her friends loaned her some money and I didn't have to sell the house.

_______________________

Baltimore, Md.: I have been separated from my husband for about 10 years now. He no longer even lives in the U.S. He has a lot of outstanding debts. I am worried that there is tax lien on my house, which is also in his name. How can I find out if there's a lien?

Richard Yancey: Get your credit report. The fastest way is to check with the county registrar of deeds, where all liens have to be recorded.

_______________________

Arlington, Va: My accountant omitted my 1011 interest income forms as part of itemized deductions. Should I send them in now or wait for the IRS to call me? Don't they get duplicates?

Richard Yancey: If it wasn't on your original return and should have been, you need to file an amended return (1040X) Talk to your accountant.

_______________________

Rockville, Md.: Did you ever let anyone slide if they were off by just a little bit. Or if they just added wrong and were off by 5 percent or so?

Richard Yancey: Nobody ever "slid" on my watch. Ha! I think you may be talking about an audit. I didn't audit returns. My job started when the audit was over.

_______________________

Northern California (follow-up): "The simple rules I learned (and these weren't contained in any training material) were..."

Okay, they weren't in a manual. Did you learn them from a supervisor/trainer? When you would swap work stories with your colleagues, would you articulate and/or assume use of such strategies in getting your job done (ie joke about/discuss the reactions of people sometimes, etc.).

Thank you, in advance, for the clarification -- and for chatting with us today.

Richard Yancey: Everybody traded stories, and if you listened carefully enough, you could kind of figure out what lessons were to be learned. Inherent in the work is the understanding that without consequences, what motivation did anyone have to do what we wanted them to do? The alternative was an IRS that was a paper tiger . . . and then how could we be expected to collect the revenue necessary for the government to function?

_______________________

Anonymous: If you wanted us to take one thing away from your book, or from this discussion today, what is it?

Richard Yancey: That the IRS is the context of a story about power. THat's what my book is really about --- the power to destroy and the power to save, and that the latter is actually much more powerful. First I fell in the love with the power, then was overpowered by love --- which sort of led me back full circle. The other thing I would say the book delivers is the IRS is not some faceless monster (okay, it IS a faceless monster, but needlessly), but a very human institution run by human beings, with all the faults and foibles of anybody else in general society.

_______________________

(serious question): Would you describe yourself as having an intimidating personality generally?

How do others see you?

(You seem to have enjoyed the aspects of your job that I would call "predatory.")

Richard Yancey: Oh God no! I'm only six foot, on the slender side, kind of intense, like that guy who played the priest in the EXORCIST, kind of shy, really, though my ego is NOT small.

I have no idea how others see me. Nobody's told me (yet)

_______________________

Baltimore, Md.: Regarding earlier question. Is there anywhere online that I can check to see if my home has a tax lien? Isn't it public record?

Richard Yancey: Some counties around the country do have their records online. Go to your official state Web site and look for a link. Otherwise, call the county office and ask.

_______________________

Richmond, Va.: If a return is prepared by an accountant and the taxpayer is audited, does the IRS hold the accountant responsible as well? Are any penalties imposed on the accountant, as they worked on behalf of the taxpayer?

Richard Yancey: The simple answer is no. Some accountants say they will go with their client to an audit, but it's YOU that's signing the return, not them.

_______________________

Anonymous: "First I fell in the love with the power, then was overpowered by love"

When were you overpowered by love?

Richard Yancey: Oh, that's the best part of the book! Don't make me give it away! It has to do with a dog . . . which, no matter what anybody else says, I DID NOT HIT.

_______________________

Anonymous: What is your background in? What did you do before the IRS?

Richard Yancey: You name it. I was a ranch hand, an English professor, a "professional" student, freelance writer, actor, director, irrigation tubing assembly line worker . . . in other words, perfect preparation to work for the most frightening agency on the face of the planet!

_______________________

Richard Yancey: I've got to go. Everybody be safe, enjoy the book, and ALWAYS pay on time, unless you want to see somebody like me pounding on your door . ..

_______________________