Career Track Live

The Washington area is a magnet for smart, ambitious young workers. Post columnist Mary Ellen Slayter writes a regular column for these professionals who are establishing their careers locally, and offers advice online as well.

The transcript follows below.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Mary Ellen Slayter: Good afternoon, everyone!

Our guest today is Daryl Herrschaft, Deputy Director of the Human Rights Campaign's WorkNet project. He'll take your questions on gay and lesbian issues in the workplace. He's a great source of advice on which companies are the most progressive, as well as how to handle discrimination issues. And we have a lot of great questions today, so let's get started.

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Washington, D.C.: A question for Daryl Herrschaft:

I work for a large corporation in the District that has domestic partnership benefits, which my partner takes full advantage of. The fact that Republicans are getting ready to propose an anti-same sex constitutional amendment scares me, especially since it may have a negative affect on civil unions and even domestic partnerships. What can I do as an individual to try to combat this?
Thanks for your response.

Daryl Herrschaft: While, the Federal Marriage Amendment was defeated in both the House and Senate this year, I don't expect the issue to go away.

Not only is he Federal Marriage Amendment a blatant attempt to write discrimination into the constitution, it is bad for business. It could restrict an employers right to define their own benefits plans to serve a diverse work force. It could force public entities that provide DP benefits to close their programs creating more uninsured and higher healthcare costs for everyone. It could hinder US businesses as they compete for talent in a global marketplace where many of our allies and trading partners are moving forward (not backward) in recognizing same-sex relationships.

Congress reacts to these business arguments. And you can help convince your company to make that argument to members of congress (and to state legislators where these battles are also being fought). Go to www.hrc.org/worklife/marriage to find out how to become engaged.

Also, don't forget our families and friends are our strongest allies and we need them now. Talk to them. Tell them what is going on and why it is important to you. Ask them to vote.

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Fairfax, Va.: I'm gay and recently starting working for the federal government. I know that the government does not discriminate in hiring on the basis of sexual orientation, but that's the only protection we have. Any movements on extending benefits, rights, etc to gays and lesbians in the federal work force? Also, are there any loopholes or anything that I can take advantage of?

Daryl Herrschaft: As the largest employer in the United States, the federal government is increasingly isolated from the private sector because it does not offer health insurance coverage to domestic partners. More than 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies offer such coverage as well as countless thousands of smaller firms.

The best resource on benefits for federal employees is Federal GLOBE. www.fedglobe.org. They are an organization of GLBT employees of the federal government. Their website has extensive information on what benefits are available where.

Mary Ellen Slayter: Economic pressures will often move these companies faster than the law can.

I think as more companies realize how unhealthy this sort of discrimination is for business, we'll continue to see progress. Hopefully, the federal government will start to feel this pressure, too, as they suffer in the competition for the most talented people.

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Lincoln, Nebraska: Any prognostics on ENDA? I hate the thought that job protections based on sexual orientation fluctuate so wildly based on job location and the good graces of the company I work for.

Daryl Herrschaft: There currently is no federal law that outlaws job discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Only 14 states have such laws on the books, even though an overwhelming majority of Americans believe that people should not be fired for being gay. A bill before Congress called the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), would ban anti-gay job discrimination.

For this session, I don't see much hope for some kind of movement on ENDA. The Congress has kept the GLBT community on the defensive this year as we worked hard to beet back the Federal Marriage Amendment. The best way to turn the tables is to elect fair-minded leaders. Sen. John Kerry, for instance, supports ENDA, while Pres. George Bush opposes it. HRC just released the Congressional Scorecard. Go to www.hrc.org to download the scorecard and see how your local representation in Congress is voting.

Also, the Human Rights Campaign is working with our allies to draft a stronger ENDA that will more directly address workplace discrimination around gender stereotypes, gender identity and expression. Look for that to be introduced in the next Congress.

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Reston, Va.: Here's the situation:

I work at a company that has a no-discrimination policy, including sexual orientation protections.

I am gay, and at work, guys my age (late 20's and early 30's) always wanna hang out after work and and do the water cooler thing during business hours. I am confused about how to act. This is Virginia after all. Should I be open about myself at work? Outside of personal issues, could I get in trouble or openly discriminated against since I work in Va.?

Thanks!

Daryl Herrschaft: First, I'll tackle your question about laws in Virginia. Virginia is one of 36 states in this country that do not outlaw anti-gay job discrimination. (Although, Arlington County and the city of Charlottesville do have civil rights laws covering sexual orientation.)

The fact that your company has an inclusive non-discrimination policy is a good sign. It means they've put some thought into the issue and are trying to set the right tone for their workplace. The policy itself, however, may not offer much in the way of real legal protections. While it can open up internal grievance procedures and presumably means that the HR department at least has had some training on gay issues in the workplace, view it more as a statement of how they'd like the workplace to function ideally and not a guarantee of a certain type of treatment.

Your experience is shared by many gay and lesbian people in the workplace. It can be very frustrating not to talk about what you did over the weekend or with whom you are going on vacation.

Whether or not to be open about your sexual orientation at work is a personal matter. No one can tell you when or if you should come out. Still, coming out in the workplace often is a very empowering experience. Trust and strong communication are essential components in any working relationships. Being honest about yourself will engender that trust among your coworkers and your boss and can score you points. Having a trusting relationship with your boss and coworkers can lead to getting the work assignments you want and creating a better work product. Not to mention the personal sense of relief.

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Washington, D.C.: I would be more supportive of domestic partner benefits if insurers would allow me to place my elderly mother on my health or prescription drug policy.
I find it a bit disconcerning that the person who took care of me all my life is not entitled to coverage, but someone who is having an intimate relationship with a co-worker is.
Once that battle is won, then I could be a bit open-minded. Family first.

Daryl Herrschaft: Some companies are recognizing that domestic partners are not the only family members that could benefit from insurance coverage. A number of companies are instituting "employee plus one" programs that allow employees to cover one additional member of the household, whether that be a parent, grandparent or a domestic partner. These policies make a lot of sense. Our website, www.hrc.org/worknet has a list of companies that have such policies. I'd suggest you provide draft a short business case for your company explaining not only your personal situation, but which of your company's competitors offer similar plans and how having uninsured family members at home can diminish an employees productivity.

Mary Ellen Slayter: An even better solution, in my mind, is to disconnect health insurance from employment and marital status COMPLETELY. Universal, single-payer health care would be good for business in this country, as well as families.

As for "family first" ... people generally consider their spouses their family. So I am not sure that you should consider these competiting issues.

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Washington, D.C.: Mary Ellen and Daryl,

I think if a person is a gay they should admit it in the interview.

Is there anything wrong with this?

Daryl Herrschaft: There are plenty of reasons why that information should NOT be part of the interview.

First, being gay has nothing to do with an individual's ability to perform the job. Second, asking about someone's sexual orientation in a job interview is illegal in 14 states and in an additional 150+ cities and counties.

In places where it is perfectly legal to discriminate (most of the country) job candidates have good reason not to divulge such personal information.

All that being said, when a gay person arrives at the time and place when they want to come out, having an honest and open relationship with your boss can build a trusting relationship that actually helps you both perform your jobs better.

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Prince Frederick, Md.: What difference could it possibly make in the workplace if you are gay, lesbian, adulterer, child molester, whatever. Years ago the taboo on homosexuality meant those people were easily blackmailed and were security risks. Now, with so many gay workers in the workforce, it shouldn't make any difference. I'm a little annoyed that my firm uses statistics of gay employees in their recruiting efforts. They do not, however, publicize how many adulterers, divorcees, or celibates are employed with the firm.

Mary Ellen Slayter: The fact that you strung gay and lesbian in the same list as adulterer and *child molester* is an example of why we still have work to do on this issue. Do you really think those four are equivalent? ugh.

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Virginia: What about reverse harrassment towards heterosexuals? What protections do we have instead of being PC about it?

Daryl Herrschaft: The US Supreme Court ruled recently that harassment between individuals of the same-sex (whether they are straight or gay) is illegal. So, the protections already exist.

Mary Ellen Slayter: Not to mention how rarely it happens. I have never heard of *one single case* in which someone was demoted, fired or beat up for being straight, something that routinely happens to gays and lesbians.

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New York, N.Y.: Ha, interesting timing of this chat. I started a job three weeks ago and had a meeting with my boss last week about a new product. Out of nowhere, she says, "(This product) isn't normal -- it's like lesbianism. It's just not natural." WHAT? I got a ten minute Seinfeldian rant about how it's unnatural, nothing wrong with it, but if we were all supposed to be gay, none of us would be here (born).

I was so shocked I didn't know what to say. I'm straight, so I guess she thought she could not worry about being PC, but I was so revolted I couldn't look at her for three days. Having only been here three weeks, I don't feel comfortable going to HR or even saying anything to her. What should I have done besides track the comment and date in case I need it legally later? Do I wait for it to come up again, then challenge her and risk quitting if she doesn't change? I'm still sickened by it, but I don't know what_to say to her if there's a next time. Thanks!

Daryl Herrschaft: Wow. That is remarkably unprofessional. And in New York, if she makes employment decisions based those feelings it would quite possibly be illegal. It is smart to document the conversation you had as soon as possible so it is still fresh in your mind. I respect what a difficult position this has put you in after only a few weeks on the job.

I would search for a co-worker in whom you can confide to see if this is typical behavior for her. If the issue comes up again, you might gently remind her that while you are, in fact, not gay, people in the workplace may have gay relatives and friends and they may find it uncomfortable. Of course, if it does happen again, I would consider reporting it to your HR department.

Mary Ellen Slayter: I also think it is a good idea to wait and see if this is a habit of hers, or a one-time gaffe. Especially since you have only been there a few weeks. If it does happen again, directly and politely express your discomfort to her.

The third time, go to HR.

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Washington, D.C.: Can you refer to any resources for metro area companies that are friendly? I have seen lists of national companies, which doesn't help a lot. I'd like to know about nonprofits and associations as well as corporations. Thank you.

Daryl Herrschaft: The HRC WorkNet database has information on all types of employers, from big companies to small non-profits. It is a completely searchable online database so you can select DC, MD and VA to narrow your search. Go to www.hrc.org/worknet and click on the link "Find Employers Policies."

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Washington, D.C.: Hi, I'd really appreciate if you could comment on my question. I am a gay man who is semi-closeted at work (don't tell until asked) and my personal belief is that I do not to bring up my sexuality in the work place as my sexuality is only one of the aspects which defines me. Personally, what really frustrates and saddens me is that I have encountered some gay people who fit the stereotypes and who want to impose their own agenda on you such as outing you to your boss for example or sexually harassing you. How do you protect yourself from your people? Stay in closet?

Daryl Herrschaft: No one should force coworkers to divulge their sexual orientation. Coming out is a personal decision. I am curious as to why your coworkers would feel a need to "out" you. Is it because they are seeking some kind of policy change at the company? If so, a straight individual (or a closeted gay person) can be enormously helpful in advancing workplace policies. It may be a sad commentary, but sometimes straight people are our best advocates because they are not viewed as having an "agenda."

At the same time, staying in the closet is not ultimately the the most efficient way to remain sane, or even to be successful at work. If policy change is what you are seeking, those personal stories about an uninsured partner at home, or having a loved one excluded from the company holiday party, or not being able to display a picture of your partner on your desk can really be an eye opener for executives in charge of making the workplace more gay-friendly.

Mary Ellen Slayter: Also, outing people against their wishes is a form of harassment.

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Washington, D.C.: I would add that not only is Va. a state where they allow anti-gay discrimination in the workplace, they've also passed a law which says that gay marriages are invalid in the state as are other "legal arrangements" between gay couples. Since my partner and I own a house out by the Blue Ridge where we eventually plan to retire, this is of great concern for us! I just thought I'd add that comment.

Daryl Herrschaft: This questioner raises an excellent point. The incidious anti-gay laws that have passed in Virginia and a few other states are truly bad for business.

Imagine an employer who wants to transfer an employee from say, Massachusetts to Virginia. With that law in place, the company is actually asking the employee to give up a legal relationship with their partner in order to keep their job.

These laws create regional disparities between companies that operate in neighboring states. Company X in the Washington, D.C. will have no problem providing insurance coverage for employees' domestic partners. That allows them to attract and retain the best and brightest talent. Meanwhile, Company Y in Virginia is unable to entice the same employee with a competitive benefits packages.

In short anti-marriage legislation is anti-business legislation. If more companies expressed that view, I think our politicians would be less likely to pass these laws.

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Prince Frederick, Md.: I was not implying that child molesters and gays are in the same category. That connection came out of your own head. I meant that if a particular sexual practice is allowed and tolerated, why not each and every one? How many of those can you think of?

I was once denied a raise at my job because I am single and have no children to support. Their justification was that I didn't need the money, no matter how hard I worked and how efficient I was. The divorcee with two kids, who came in late, staggered back from a 3-martini lunch, and left early got a raise because she needed it!

Mary Ellen Slayter: Child molestation is a heinous crime, not a "sexual practice."

The connection was not in my head; it was in your list.

I'm sorry that you were discriminated against for your marital status.

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Washington, D.C.: I work in a large non profit in D.C. that has about 5 gay workers. They have the partnership health care and all. There is one fellow on my staff that every other word out his mouth is "gay this and gay that." If someone talks about a new baby he will turn it around and joke, and say something like "I saw the baby and he's gay." Every topic turns to gay. For the most part I have no problem with gay people but I must admit I am tired of this guy. We all know he is gay and accept him and there are others on the staff that are gay as well. As a minority that has been denied certain freedoms, I try to understand but this is too much. No one wants to say anything about his "boorish" behavior.

Daryl Herrschaft: Unforunately, being gay does not always come with a good sense of humor. You have my sympathy.

The issue is to create a workplace where people with different backgrounds can come together to beet the competition. It is not about changing personal values or doing away with standards of conduct in the workplace.

It sounds like you could be a mentor to this person. You might explain that some people may view his use of the word "gay" as a derogatory term as offensive.

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New York: If a company's headquarters (incorporated) in one state, but you work at a branch in another, which set of employment laws do are you subjected to?

Daryl Herrschaft: You are subject to the employment laws where you work, not where the company is headquartered.

This is an important issue for companies to understand. Because of the patchwork of laws that exist in this country, multi-state employers need to ensure that their policies cover everyone in their company equally. So, for instance, if you are transferred to another state you have some reasonable expectation that the company will treat you the same way. Many larger firms are also extending their workplace non-discrimination and benefits policies globally as well.

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RE: Virginia: My favorite is that my dogs are insured through my work, while my partner is not.

Nice.

Mary Ellen Slayter: That is absurd.

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Mary Ellen Slayter: Daryl, what advice do you have for a manager who wants to improve his or her company's atmosphere for gay and lesbian workers?

Daryl Herrschaft: Go to www.hrc.org/worknet. There are several "how-to" tools for creating a fair and equitable workplace.

Adding sexual orientation to the non-discrimination policy, adding domestic partner benefits and conducting diversity training are a few starters.

Also, this is not a one way street. Supporting gay employees can have very positive ramifications back to the employer. Gay and lesbian employee networks often can assist the company in targeted marketing to the GLBT community, they can help staff job fairs and be ambassadors to the larger GLBT community on behalf of your company. This results in improved corporate reputations and may signal your company as an employer of choice.

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Washington, D.C.: I am a federal employee of an agency that is making good progress in addressing the issues facing GLBT individuals in the workplace. We've recently started a chapter of FedGLOBE, but we've been struggling with the kinds of things we should be doing. My primary concern (and a reason I may leave the gov't in the future) is a lack of domestic partner benefits, but there's not much my agency can do about that. What are some examples of some realistic goals we should set and what steps should we take to get there?

Daryl Herrschaft: Unfortunately extending benefits to some federal agencies will require an act of Congress. In the interim, you might work on raising awareness at your worksite. Ask to develop a GLBT awareness event. On the policy side, go through the benefits that are offered to see where domestic partners can be added, in practice if not in law. For example, does your bereavement policy cover domestic partners? Would you be granted FMLA leave to care for a partner? Does your agency pay for relocation expenses for domestic partners? All of these are stepping stones to the bigger benefit of health insurance.

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Arlington, Va.: I'm not quite sure how to ask this, but I find sometimes that gay people are the most critical of other gays in the workplace, as if to say I'm not one of you by being cruel to another gay person. Is that your experience? Many times, when you see a gay colleague out, it's never discussed later.

Daryl Herrschaft: I understand that as a community, we are often as hard on ourselves as those who oppose us.

Naturally, people have good reason to be cautious about discussing their sexual orientation in the workplace as it may invite discirmination. If you want to try to instill some sense of normalcy with your gay co-workers you might try to plan a social outing or two.

But if this is a frigid work environment, that may signal a broader problem at the company. Has the company adequately trained its managers on how to create a welcoming environment for gay people? You might try presenting a business case for your employer to improve its workplace policies and practices.

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Washington, D.C.: Friends, my experience is that if you have to resort to "the laws" you are out of luck.
I think you have to go by your intuition. My office is hugely "progressive" with numerous folks adopting babies, etc. If you need to present legal support it is too little too late. My problem is, how do you know how the environment is before you take a job? I wish people would put rainbows on their classified ads! I lucked into this organization, but I'm looking again and it would be horrible to me to end up with someone who detests gay people. BTW, work is not the place to "come out" in my opinion. The people who need to know will know, trust me.

Mary Ellen Slayter: Very good point!

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Daryl Herrschaft: Thanks for the array of questions today. I enjoyed the discussion.

For more information on how to find GLBT-friendly workplaces or how to create one where you work, don't hesitate to drop me a line or visit our website which is, again, www.hrc.org/worknet.

Now get back to work!

Mary Ellen Slayter: A big thanks to Daryl for taking the time to join us today, and to all you guys for your great questions. See you in two weeks!

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