Members of Congress have become increasingly polarized over such issues as stem cell research, same-sex marriages and abortion, much like their constituents. But the divisions among policy makers are more pronounced and influenced by religious ideology, according to a study of congressional voting patterns over the last quarter century.
William D'Antonio, professor of sociology at the Life Cycle Institute at Catholic University of America and director of the study, was online Monday, Aug. 30, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss how religion impacts the way politicians vote in Congress.
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A transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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William D'Antonio: Good morning, Prof. Tuch and I would like to clarify an important point. The headline of the article in the Post suggests that Religion is driving the divide in Congress. We would say it is the other way around. Party controls religion. Very briefly: While the Catholic Church leaders totally oppose abortion, as do the Protestant Conservative Religious Right, the Mainline Protestant denominations all permit choice under a variety of conditions. So a Mainline Protestant is not under the same pressure to be anti-abortion as are Catholics. But when you look at the findings, you see that Catholic Democrats, And Mainline Protestant Democrats in both the House and Senate have become more Pro-choice over the 24 years of our study, while Mainline Protestant Republicans and Catholic Republicans have become more anti-abortion. Even Conservative Democrats since 1996 have been voint more pro-choice than they were before 1994. So it is clearly Party ideology that influences the votes on abortion not religion per se. That leaves unanswered how the parties go about finding their pro-life or pro-choice candidates.
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washingtonpost.com: In Congress, Religion Drives Divide (Post, Aug. 28)
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Washington, D.C.:
Can the increased polarization you've identified be explained purely on secular terms, as a result of the realignment of the two parties into a liberal party and a conservative one, instead of two parties that both consisted of coalitions of liberal and conservative (to some extent)? Perhaps it's not necessary to look to a religious explanation?
William D'Antonio: This is an interesting question. Certainly since the beginning of the New Deal the Democrats have supported legislation that reaches out to the poor, those in need, etc with social security, pro-labor laws, Medicare, medicaid, concern for the environment, etc. But it is fair to say their concern for the common good is also found in the great Jewish tradition that expects those who can to reach out to others in a systematic way. It also reflects the teaching of the social gospel of the Mainline Protestant Churches, and the social teachings of the Catholic Church. On the other side Republican party ideology is strongly lower taxes, less government, and a strong military defense. So it is party ideology, whether seen as religious or secular, or some combination, that helps explain the findings.
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Colleyville, Tex.:
Don't you believe that politicians have always voted according to their religious/moral beliefs and that only because society has become more diverse in what is considered acceptable behavior that now voters find themselves voting for those of a like heart/mind rather than on issues?
William D'Antonio: Have politicians always voted their religious and moral beliefs? The only modern study I know of by political scientists Benson and Williams, Religion on Capitol Hill, supports that statement. It would be amazing to say otherwise, unless of course all politicians were agnostics. most people are still brought up in one of the three (soon to be four) religious traditions, and their family socialization continues to reflect those traditions. The intriguing question remains the way the parties now recruit to get religious beliefs lined up with party ideology.
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Laurel, Md.:
Jerry Falwell, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Pat Robertson are all Baptist clergymen. With a few exceptions like Catholicism and Mormonism, most large religious bodies in the U.S. are extremely tolerant of diverging views at the political level, and even those are not monolithic on all issues.
When we ask how religion affects politics, how much of the question is essentially backwards -- that the political/social beliefs drive the religious views instead of the other way around?
William D'Antonio: Yes, we would agree with you, as we said in our opening remarks. The parties are driving the issues, and increasingly they are finding candidates who reflect their ideology in its narrowist framework.
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Laramie, Wyo.:
Professor D'Antonio,
It seems a number of conservative Republicans are skeptical about the theory of evolution. Is this indicative of a wider-spread distrust of science by religious conservatives, and does this play a role in views on global warming?
Also, since several branches of Christianity have declared the war in Iraq not to be a just war, has this affected support for the war?
William D'Antonio: Your question about whether the fact that a number of Christian groups opposed the war in Iraq as unjust may have affected support for the war is a good one; there was an attempt to survey the American public on that question, and the findings suggest that most people were not influenced by the position taken by leaders of their respective churches. Recall that Pope John Paul II stated that the war would be a catastrophe, yet Pres. Bush who seems to enjoy a warm relationship with the pope managed to go to war anyway, and despite the mess the war has turned out to be, was able to manage another good photo op with the pope in June, and assure the pope he has turned the situation in Iraq in a new direction. Last week, the Catholic Archbishop of Baghdad said the War was evil, and that Pres. Bush had not understood the negative consequences of his action. Still almost half of all American adults in recent studies continue to support the president's war in Iraq.
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Philadelphia, Pa.:
There's been a lot of focus on Senator Kerry's Catholicism and his pro-choice views. Where's the criticism of pro-choice Catholic Republicans, including Governors Pataki and Schwarzenegger, who will be speaking at the convention?
William D'Antonio: The question asks why Catholic bishops and conservative groups have been vocal in criticizing only pro-choice Democrats and not pro-choice Republicans like Gov. Pataki and former mayor Giuliani? A good question, with no answer. But that leads to another question: why have the bishops failed to cite those members of Congress who vote for all the things they claim to support, not only anti abortion votes, but also votes for a living wage, for housing for the poor, for universal health care, against nuclear weapons? Is it because those members in Congress will be found only in the Democratic Party?
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Harrisburg, Pa.:
One thing I observe is the politicians are often more split than the public. Many people may have beliefs on issues such as abortion, gays, etc., yet they often are not necessarily strong beliefs, or even when they are strong, people seem to allow for exceptions to their beliefs in certain instances. Politicians seem to take one hard stance or another. Is there a mismatch between the political stances and the opinions of the public at large?
William D'Antonio: There does appear to be a mismatch between the voting behavior of Congress and the attitudes and beliefs of the public. For example, a majority of all Americans support the right of a woman to have an abortion under certain conditions. But that issue doesn't come up for a vote. Congress votes on whether to allow funds to the District of columbia for family planning programs, whether to allow women in the military to have an abortion at government expense,etc. And as our findings show, party discipline trumps particular beliefs, so there are very few Republicans in the Senate and fewer in the House who vote against party lines. The same is true among democrats but to a less extent. In other words you will find more pro-life (in the true sense) Democrats than pro-choice Republicans.
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Upper Marlboro, Md.:
Submitting early due to work but the article was very interesting. My question, why do you think the church's hierarchy is indifferent to the voting records of congressmen on social issues other then abortion?
William D'Antonio: It is difficult to say if the Catholic Hierarchy is really indifferent to social issues other than abortion. They have made it clear, however, that abortion trumps all other issues. That being the case, as long as Democrats are in the minority in congress, party ideology will insure that millions of Americans, poor and elderly, and all of us who are concerned about the environment, that the bishops' concerns about social issues like a living wage, removing the embargo against Cuba for humanitarian reasons, etc etc, will not be heard or met, because Republican Party ideology is opposed to those positions. Whether the bihops would acknowledge it or not it is the ideology of the Democratic Party that more clearly matches their sated positions on crucial social issues. Their stance on abortion has meant that millions of real living people have not received the support and help from their government that the bishops might have hoped and lobbied for.
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Laurel, Md.:
The press doesn't like to report the negative aspects of religious belief, such as in the Andrea Yates trial. There are large numbers of Americans who believe we are living in the time of Armageddon, and that war in the Middle East will spark it.
Is there polling evidence that, to be blunt, superstitious religious belief is behind any part of support for the war in Iraq?
William D'Antonio: No real scientific evidence that I know of.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Doesn't the fact that increasingly government policy is being driven by religious ideology make such policy differences impossible to resolve? I mean, could the Catholic Church ever say that abortion, in some very limited set of circumstances, is a moral decision? And without the willingness of those who set such ideology to adapt or compromise with those who hold opposing views, aren't we condemned to a constant battle of good(us) against evil (them)?
William D'Antonio: Your question raises the issue of whether we are sufficiently mature as a society and a political system to dare to engage in a serious debate on abortion. This would entail having embryologists, theologians, philosophers, sociologists, psychologists, historians,and others reflecting the broad range of religious beliefs being willing to dare to put their position on the table for a real dialogue, not of one hour, but perhaps more likely of a year or two. That would be worth while; any brief shouting match would serve no human cause.
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Bowie, Md.:
There was a lot of negative reportage a few months ago when some American general said that we would win the war in Iraq because "our god is stronger than theirs" or something similar.
Given the obvious religious overtones of Western involvement in the Middle East, are views like this more commonly held than is generally acknowledged?
William D'Antonio: I wish we could answer this question based on good research. Lacking that, I would just have to hope not.
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New York, N.Y.:
If the Protestant and Catholics have the same theological tenet (thou shall not kill), why are the Protestants becoming more anti-abortion and the catholics more pro-choice?
William D'Antonio: Our data show that as regards members of Congress, Mainline Protestants and even Conservative Protestants who are Democrats are in fact becoming more pro-choice, or have become pro-choice at a level that has reached consensus level, while Mainline and Conservative Protestants who are Republicans have become overwhelmingly anti-abortion. Whether in the national population at large Protestants are becoming more anti-abortion as Catholics become more pro-choice is difficult to discern from current trends.
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Long Beach, Calif.:
One of the complaints of people who are morally opposed to abortion is that they
should not pay taxes for those services to
be performed with govt. assistance.
Do these people support the same concept in regards to those who oppose killing in the
name of one's country? Surely the two forms
of death induction are worthy of the same
logic. Your opinion?
William D'Antonio: My opinion is that you make the good point. Unfortunately, in our congress right now, there are more votes against paying for an abortion for a poor woman than there are votes against increasing military expenditures to carry on a war. A sad truth.
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Charleston, W. Va.:
Professors:
Thanks for your hard work and taking these questions.
The problem I have with analyses such as yours is that the political parties have seized upon any debate tactic to support their ideological positions. In that regard, one's interpretation of religious tenets are then used as just another argument to bolster an already established position. Doesn't such tactical politics really amount to hijacking religion for narrower purposes?
William D'Antonio: We did not intend for our findings to be interpreted to suggest that religion was driving the divide; rather it has been our conclusion that the data clearly indicate that it is party ideology that controls the kind of CAtholic or Protestant who gets nominated for a particular seat in the House or Senate.
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College Park, Md.:
Everyone is entitled to believe as they wish, even if they think the world is flat.
The problem I have is that one can not argue facts to faith. How can good public policy be produced when superstition is fueling the debate?
William D'Antonio: The answer to your question may well be that good public policy is difficult to achieve when the debate is colored by any kind of beliefs that have no anchor in the factual issues at hand.
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Washington, D.C.:
Do you think it acceptable that someone as powerful (and as conservative and intolerant) as Tom DeLay says that he is governing to impose his religious world view? Personally, I find this frightening. Is this too much a blurring of the line between church and state, in your opinion?
Also, I have heard that the GOP leadership consults with fundamentalists before making any policy decisions regarding Israel, to ensure that any such decisions fit in with religious conservatives' views of the second coming. What are your thoughts on this? If true, is this a legitimate basis for policy that affects millions of people?
William D'Antonio: I was not aware that Mrf. DeLay had said that he was imposing his religious views on the country. That concerns me as much as the president's statements about how his sense of being a Christian guides his behavior.
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Munich, Germany:
"Freedom of Religion" is a cornerstone of American democracy. When I read that more and more litigation is being based or grounded on Christian beliefs and the bible, I begin to wonder if this cornerstone isn't being somewhat weakened.
Do you think that the separation between church and state, as envisioned by founding fathers like Benjamin Franklin, is being infringed upon by recent trends in government?
William D'Antonio: Many of use ae sufficiently concerned that we are trying to carry out careful research which will enable the public to have a better understanding of just what was meant by the separation of church and state, and just what kinds of legislative and executive and judicial actions are most likely to endanger that separation. We could use a good, dispassionate debate right now.
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William D'Antonio: Thank you for the array of challenging questions. I just wish Steve and I had time to respond to all of them. Bill D'Antonio
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