Oken Murder Case

Stay of Execution Upheld

Appellate attorney Richard Rosenbaum will be online Wednesday, June 16 at 1 p.m. ET, to discuss the case of convicted murderer Stephen Howard Oken.

Read the latest:Stay of Execution Upheld in Md. Murder Case (Post, June 16)

A transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Arlington, Va.: It perplexes me as to why so many people are adamantly fighting to save the life of this worthless individual. There is no question as to Mr. Oken's guilt. Can't logic prevail even briefly in this matter? Why should the families of Oken's victims have to wait nearly two decades for justice? Let's get rid of this guy and be done with it.

Richard Rosenbaum: If the state was not telling you how a loved one of your was to be put to death until the last second you would want your family's lawyers to have time to look into the procedure.

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Bethesda, Md.: Despite being a student of one of the defense attorney's, I am troubled by this ruling. After 13 years of appeals, it seems outrageous that the defense can secure a stay based on lack of info about the execution method. Seems to me both sides know well how the execution will be carried out, and this was more an indictment of the death penalty itself coming close on the heels of the Nichols sentencing, too. The Constitution doesn't seem to set any time limits or requirements for execution method information so this case should have finally been laid to rest and justice finally brought to the families of the victims of these heinous crimes.

Richard Rosenbaum: The "last minute production" of lethal injection procedures should be looked into. You, if anyone, because of your background should realize that there is no need to rush to judgment.

As for timetables, every case is different both factually and procedurally -- thus making it impossible to "hurry the death process along."

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Joe (Washington, D.C.): U.S. District Judge Peter J. Messitte's ruling yesterday that the state had not provided "fundamental fairness" to Mr. Oken because it did not explain the procedures it planned to use 'in carrying out his execution in a "prompt and timely fashion" and permitted the convicted murderer a stay of execution does a grave injustice to the victims of Oken's horrifies crimes and disparages the memories of those killed. Seventeen years of appeals and delays and stalling have been more than enough. Judge Messitte's ruling is an insult to the families of the victims and is a total miscarriage of justice. The fundamental fairness to the victims has been disregarded entirely in favor of Judge Messitte's coddling of this murderer. Shame on you Judge Messitte for your lack of judgment. Shame on you for your lack of strength, and shame on you for your lack of will to see that Oken's sentence is carried out without delay. Is Messitte's ruling a one of holding, or is there simply a lack of will to carry out the death penalty in Maryland?

Richard Rosenbaum: Judge Messite's ruling was fact based and correct. In fact, by a vote of 2-1 it was upheld a few minutes ago by the 4th Circuit.

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Baltimore, Md.: I and my co-workers feel that Oken should not get anymore chances of staying alive. He took the lives of three women (brutally). If your right hand offend thee, cut it off. Oken cut down the lives of three women, so cut his life off (NOW!) and stop wasting tax payers' money housing him.

Richard Rosenbaum: As stated by the Judge " it is the court's duty... to see that guarantees of the U.S Constitution are respected, even in the case of someone who may be despised by the entire polity." A good ruling -- upheld today on appeal.

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Baltimore, Md.: So what can we expect in July at the next hearing and how many more delays and appeals can be brought forth by Oken's attorneys?
What is the earliest he can finally be executed?

Richard Rosenbaum: You can expect challenges to the new lethal injection procedures if such challenges are in good faith. I live in Florida and we recently decided that the electric chair caused cruel and unusual punishment. We switched to lethal injection, and the system is still wrought with problems. All we want is for people to be treated fairly and constitutionally.

If a new death warrant is issued in July and no stay granted than the only option left will be a commutation from the governor.

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Blacksburg, Va.: I'm familiar with the Virginia appeals structure for death penalty cases. Does Maryland's system have significantly more steps or opportunities for appeal for these inmates to take advantage of?

Richard Rosenbaum: I am a Florida lawyer but believe the same state and federal procedural protections apply.

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Bethesda, Md.: After 13 years of appeals, calls for this case to end can hardly be called a "rush to judgment." What does the defense need to know? The chemical composition of the poison? He was found guilty and had ample time to appeal on the merits. He lost. This latest objection seems baseless. Try telling the families of the victims of this 17-year-old crime that the death process is being hurried along.

Richard Rosenbaum: Obviously a federal district judge and federal appellate panel did not feel the challenge was baseless. Had Oken been put to death now his rights to fair notice and due process would have been violated.

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Washington, DC: I can't tell from the introduction: Are you Mr. Oken's appellate attorney?

Richard Rosenbaum: No. I am an appellate attorney based out of Ft. Lauderdale Fla. I do appellate work throughout the country.

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Arlington, Va.: I appreciate that, but this method of execution has long been proven to be humane (more than necessary, in most peoples' opinions), with 10 times the anesthetic dose provided during general surgery to render the patient unconscious. It does not seem that Mr. Oken's suffering (pardon my nausea) is a legitimate concern.

Richard Rosenbaum: The defense is entitled to have the opportunity to review the just-revised execution manual. A reasonable time to review the procedure is not inappropriate. It is the only humane thing for we as a society to do before tacking someone's life.

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Arlington, Va. : What Oken did was undeniably horrible. But how is it OK to then justify more death/killing on top of those who have already died? It is complete hypocrisy. There can be no "humane" way of executing anyone. Killing is killing.

Richard Rosenbaum: I agree.

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Washington, D.C.: I guess I am unclear about why the information about the means of execution was not revealed until late; Maryland has executed two individuals in the last 10 years -- both by lethal injection, I believe. Has the procedure changed somehow?

Richard Rosenbaum: The procedure has changed. I am not sure how or in what manner. That is what the lawyers want time to look into.

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Washington, D.C.: Even as a hard-line supporter of the death penalty I can understand the need for this stay. But doesn't the attention this issue is getting highlight a larger issue? With so many problems facing us today is a high ethical question really the way to go? Why not spend the time, money, effort, and attention on, say, the 20,000 children in D.C. who don't get enough to eat EVERY DAY. Or maybe some attention to the growing homeless problem? Again, I understand and support this stay, I just don't understand or support the attention it is getting

Richard Rosenbaum: I am all for more money to feed kids, and believe a lot of other issues are of huge importance. But, right now the attention is here on this subject and the public needs to know what is going on. It is not like we can only focus on one issue at a time.

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Washington, D.C.: In response to the "Killing is killing" comment, this is an old argument and one that gets stale. The person who initially took another's life qualified that individual, and qualified them as not worth living. Society then has a responsibility to qualify its own perceptions, and those who would kill innocent people in cold blood simply cannot be expected to adhere to societal or moral standards of life, and therefore should not be allowed to threaten society any longer, or enjoy the fruits of their crime (i.e., memories, reliving, etc.) for the rest of their life.

Richard Rosenbaum: Thank you for your sermon.

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Bethesda, Md.: Gee, Rich, your politics aren't quite clear from the tone of your responses. You by any chance a liberal defense attorney morally opposed to the death penalty who's currently contributing money to the Kerry campaign? I can't quite tell ...

Richard Rosenbaum: I am for human rights -- and haven't taken sides yet in the presidential race. Let me guess what side of the fence you are on.

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McLean, Va.: And you wonder why people hate lawyers!

Richard Rosenbaum: Until you or your family needs one ...

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McLean, Va.: From the tone of the questions and comments (and in turn the responses), it appears that there is the same disagreement in the soundness of Judge Messitte's decision (just as on the 4th Circuit there was disagreement -- the ruling upholding the stay was not unanimous). My question is whether there is the will in the Maryland judiciary to carry out the death sentence? Not just in this case now, but in this case in July after the next hearing and in other cases as they reach the end of their respective appeals processes. What good is a statute if it is not enforced?

Richard Rosenbaum: Not being from Maryland, I do not know whether there is the will in the Maryland judiciary to carry out the death sentence. Valid statutes should be enforced -- but only if enforced fairly and evenly.

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Annapolis, Md.: Will there be legal reforms of the appeals process at the federal level as a result of all these last minute appeals concerning execution procedures across the country?

Richard Rosenbaum: I doubt it. The Anti-Terrorism Act created huge reforms to the detriment of convicted prisoners. I don't believe more reforms are called for at this time.

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Washington, D.C.: Finished law school ... passed the bar ... didn't hate myself enough to practice.

Richard Rosenbaum: It's a great education. It is a tough way to make a living.

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Silver Spring, Md.: If we ever get rid of the death penalty (as I think we should) this chat would not be occurring. Don't get me wrong, what Mr. Oken was convicted of was tragic and brutal beyond words and I feel terribly sorry for the family, but they also wouldn't have to go through this for life in prison without the possibility of parole. My $.02

Richard Rosenbaum: Amen

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Monkton, Md.: Fair is subjective. If Oken were treated fairly, he'd meet the same mercy and fate as the poor women he tortured, raped and murdered. He took the lives of three women with another 50-60-70 years on this earth. He deserves no more fairness and mercy than what he gave to them.
I want to know how many more appeals can be filed? Is there a limit or can this go on indefinitely?

Richard Rosenbaum: Appeals can not go on indefinitely. But they should go on until we know there are no procedural or substantive errors occurring.

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Washington, D.C.: Can you explain what the "production procedures" for the execution are?

Richard Rosenbaum: It is my understanding that Oken's lawyers asked to see the lethal injection procedures which would be used to kill him. I have not seen the state's response, so cannot comment.

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Annapolis, Md.: My layman's interpretation of the appellate provisions anti-terrorism act that it was intended to force defense attorneys to file their appeals in a timely manner, or risk forfeiture of their claims.

What is wrong with that?

Richard Rosenbaum: That's not really what the Anti-Terrorism Act was all about. It limited the number of attacks which could be lodged to question harmful errors which occurred in a case and restricted the time in which such claims could be made.

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Silver Spring, Md.: There seems to be an underlying misunderstanding of the judge's ruling. The stay only says that Oken's execution will be delayed until his attorneys have adequate time to review the new execution method, NOT that he will not ultimately be executed. I am opposed to the death penalty for religious reasons, but at the same time recognize that if there was ever anyone who deserved it, it is Oken. Still, shouldn't he receive fair treatment by our society by allowing for time to review the proposed method?

Richard Rosenbaum: You are correct, the stay only delays Oken's execution until his attorneys have adequate time to review the new execution method. It does not bar his ultimate execution.

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Alexandria, Va.: I opposed the death penalty, in part because it makes the issue 'about' the offender, not about the victims. But I think there is not enough attention paid to the effects of administering the death penalty on those charged with doing this. I, for one, would not want someone doing this who wants to do it, nor someone forced into administering the death penalty who doesn't want to do so. That leaves me with no one to carry it out, I think.

Richard Rosenbaum: I agree. Good comment.

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Washington, D.C.: More of a comment than a question. I would just point out to those that say that Oken's crimes and the time since those crimes make the manner of his execution irrelevant: I trust even they would agree there is some due process line the state cannot cross no matter the circumstances; for example, the police couldn't have snatched him from his seat and hung him in the courtroom. They might agree that's too soon. But what's the magic date when we say, to hell with the law, let's hang 'em? One year? Five? Ten? Whenever the lynch mob gets restless enough to act? We have courts bound by law precisely because of such understandable human emotions.

Richard Rosenbaum: That is precisely why no set timetables for cases like this can be established that work.

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Monkton, Md.: So as long as a shrewd defense team can continue to shop for the right judge and convince him that a spelling error or dangling participle in a written procedure is a violation of their client's rights -- appeals CAN go on indefinitely.

The legal system is a travesty to victims and their families.

Richard Rosenbaum: We don't see eye to eye on this. And, if you know a way to "forum shop" for a specific judge or court I'd be shocked -- because that doesn't exist.

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Springfield, Va.: "The person who initially took another's life qualified that individual, and qualified them as not worth living. Society then has a responsibility to qualify its own perceptions, and those who would kill innocent people in cold blood simply cannot be expected to adhere to societal or moral standards of life, and therefore should not be allowed to threaten society any longer, or enjoy the fruits of their crime (i.e., memories, reliving, etc.) for the rest of their life."

That's an even older and staler argument.

Richard Rosenbaum: I guess you don't believe in the First Amendment either. if you have a second go read the "Son of Sam" ruling in the Simon & Schuster case.

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Hydes, Md.: The ruling itself does not bar Oken's execution but it opens the faucet for another round of delays and the possibility that an uncrossed "t" in the procedure will cause another moratorium on the death penalty.
My guess is that Oken will die of old age, a happy man.

Richard Rosenbaum: I doubt happy after being locked up for decades.

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Anonymous: Thanks for your time. Even with differing viewpoints, I understand how busy your day must be. Good debate is always healthy and enjoyable, and "open air" is always good for those seeking truth. Thanks again.

Richard Rosenbaum: Thank you.

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Bethesda, Md.: Saying you're "for human rights" is a totally unfair comment. Supporting the death penalty for a triple murderer doesn't in any way make someone anti-human rights as far as I see it. You can disagree if you want, but I don't think it's right to imply that by supporting capital punishment, I'm going to be tap dancing on all our human rights doctrines.

Richard Rosenbaum: The "anti-human rights" argument can easily be made against anyone saying Oken's lawyers didn't, at the least, deserve time to look in to this matter more fully.

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Washington, D.C.: A little off the mark, but any opinion on the Nichol's verdict? Surprised?

Richard Rosenbaum: Surprised.

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Arlington, Va.: I understand that guilt in this case has already been decided, but my question is why a drug-fueled rampage where the assailant doesn't know right from wrong, doesn't even recognize human life, why isn't he considered temporarily mentally ill and therefore absolved of guilt?

And while we are on that, people suffering mental illness and drug addiction face great difficulties in getting treatment should they want it.

Richard Rosenbaum: We could chat for hours on this subject. Sorry -- out of time.

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