PBS: P.O.V. Farmingville

PBS Program

"Farmingville" is a Sundance film award-winner and opens the 2004 P.O.V. series on PBS. The documentary portrays suburban America torn by conflict over immigrant workers. The film covers immigration issues such as President Bush's immigration proposal and hate-based attempted murder cases of two Mexican day laborers in the small Long Island town of Farmingville, N.Y.

For nearly a year, filmmakers Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini lived and worked in Farmingville to capture from all sides the stories of residents, day laborers and activists.

Sandoval and Tambini were online Wednesday, June 23 at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the documentary.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Hello and thanks watching "Farmingville" last night on P.O.V. We are now online and glad to take your questions. We look forward to a lively discussion.
Carlos & Catherine

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Bridgewater, N.J.: In the scenes where you film the laborers on the job, how were you able to get access to the jobsites and film without getting in trouble with the workers' bosses (who, I'm sure, were not willing to be filmed)?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: In each instance we told the bosses what we were doing and they allowed us to film. We agreed not to identify the locations.

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Las Vegas, Nev.: Is it Possible to privately fund a hall for the laborers in farmingville. Are there any organizations being set up where we can make donations to a project like this. If the taxpayer won't pay for one, maybe there are private citizens who would be willing to work with churches in order to raise money to help build one for these people.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: It is possible to fund private sites for the laborers and this has been done in a number of communities. Catholic Charities and several other funders were willing to put up funds for the site in Farmingville but were not willing to do so without government support. You can contact Catholic Charities and Long Island Community Foundation both of whom are active in trying to do positive things to help the immigrant communities.
CT

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Harrisburg, Pa.: I have not seen your movie, yet I would like to. Does having the film set in Long Island seem to have any impact on viewers? I mention because I have worked for migrant farm labor protections in Pennsylvania, and a typical reaction I receive is people are unaware there are migrant farm laborers in Pennsylvania. There is a perception this is something found only in Southern states. Does the reality of migrant farm workers in Long Island strike against people's prior conceptions, and does that make any difference in your film?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: In reply to your first question, yes, it does seem the film is having some impact on Long Island. We have held several screenings. At each some people seem to come away with a slightly better understanding of the other side, which in turn we hope will lead to productive discussions.

As to the visiblity of "migrant" laborers, there may be a difference between Long Island and your situation in Pennsylvania. On Long Island, particularly in Farmingville, the presence of the day laborers has been highly controversial and so has received a lot of media attention.

As to awareness generally of these new immigrant communities, if you go to www.pov.org you will find an interactive map that shows various "new gateway communities."

Finally, if you'd like to bring more awareness to the issue, our outreach partner, Active Voice, has developed some remarkable materials to use the film as a way of bringing attention to the situation and starting a productive dialog. Please visit www.activevoice.net for more information. The DVD should soon be available for purchase (or you can get it via www.netflix.com now). Active Voice may be able/willing to help set up a screening.

Thanks for your questiona and work.

Carlos Sandoval

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Cliffside Park, NJ: How big a crew did you have to be able to enter into the lives of such a diverse group of people?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Often times it was just Catherine or Carlos and Catherine. Sometimes we also had a sound recordist. When an event was scheduled we would hire a crew consisting of cinematographer, sound recordist and production assistant (Catherine would also shoot). We had two crews to film the SQL conference. We were mostly a small group and tried to be unobtrusive.

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London, Ontario, Canada: First off, I applaud your work...kudos.
In your time making this most important eye-opening film did you witness with your own eyes any hate related crime? What was the general impression of you and your crew from the population at large? Did you get the impression of a hidden agenda or overall veneer of law abiding citizenship hiding a agenda of hate and a want of expulsion of these illegal or otherwize non- american workers?

Ron

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Thank you for your "kudos". Deeply appreciated.

As to Farmingville's population at large, the answer is complex. I think most of the residents are frustrated --with some reason. They feel overwhelmed by an unexpected population they were ill equiped to welcome. There was also no mayor or local leader to help mediate the frustration.

I personally was exposed to harassment when people took me for a day laborer (a car veering at me with the driver shouting "you f***ing illegal, why don't you go back to the f****ing country you came from"; kids barking at me, etc. This low level harassment seems to go on on a daily basis.

I truly believe most of the people in Farmingville are not racist. They are frustrated. Now would they have reached this same level of frustration so quickly if it were the same number of Irish men on the street corner, I tend to doubt it, but it's all a matter of a continum.

I think that the answer lies in the need to reform our federal policies to recognize the continued need for this labor force and take away the "illegal" argument to then test what the real concerns are, and avoid this frustration seeping out to the USA's growing latino population generally.

Carlos Sandoval

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Somerville, MA: Ms. Tambini,
On PBS last night after the film you said
in an interview that what we are facing in America is what we have always faced when we have an influx of new immigrants. You compared it to the Irish immigrants and the Jewish immigrant waves of the past. Is that an accurate comparison since the immigrants in your documentary are "illegal aliens"
who have broken the immigration and employment laws of the country?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: It's my understanding that in the previous waves of immigration the only documents that were required for "legal" immigration were a health certificate and a birth certificate prior to 1924. Also many in the previous waves came without papers -- "wop" -- and faced the same problems that the illegal immigrants face today.

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Glenshaw, Pennsylvania: Why am I called racist simply because I believe that illegal aliens should be deported? By definition they are criminals, they have committed a crime. If I commit a crime I will be punished in some way,but they are free to break our laws. By the way,I noticed the illegals would not work for $7/hr., which blows the theory that they take jobs no American will do.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: I don't consider you to be a racist. However I think that is an impractical solution to the problem. On Long Island when we were making the documentary unemployment was at about 2.9%. If you get rid of all the people who are here working illegally there would be no one to fill those jobs.

Up to the mid 1990's on the eastern end of Long Island there was a large group of Irish who were here working illegally and no one ever called for their deportation. Why do you think that is?
CT

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Chicago, Ill.: Dear Carlos and Catherine-
I enjoyed your POV piece last night, which presented a relatively fair and nuanced view of a contentious debate. I take issue, however, with two assertions propagated in the piece.

First, folks such as those in Farmingville who object to illegal immigration are labled as racist when in fact they are probably concerned about class rather than race. The acid test is to ask the angry neighbors of a house with 17 day laborers whether they would object if a Latino lawyer, doctor, professor, etc moved in next door. I suspect that the vast majority would be indifferent. Unfortunately, the use of the R-word short-circuits any meaningful debate.

Second, one often hears the assertion that illegal immigrants are critical to the economy. This is true in a few sectors, such as agriculture, but I'm dubious about its veracity in most others. I have many relatives in LA, for example, who employ undocumented immigrants as gardeners and maids; illegal immigration enables ordinary middle-class folks to move up a rung on the ladder---to live as landed gentry, taking advantage of a cheap service sector at home and in restaurants, hotels, etc. If my relatives lived in a small midwestern town that lacked abundant labor at the bottom end of the pool, they would mow their own lawns and the dishwashers at restaurants would be high school kids.

I am interested to hear your thoughts on these comments.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Thanks for your thoughtful questions/observations.

If you feel we "propagated" the view that all who object to the presence of illegal immigrants in their community are racists, then we failed in our job. We really wanted to show the issue is more nuanced than this. We went through great pains to do so. That is why, for example, we include Louise walking us through her neighborhood, in fact pretty much open with her showing the disruption of a neighborhood. There are certainly legitimate complaints (overcrowded housing being first on the list). It was precisely because the R-word short-circuits debate that we wanted to show through someone like Louise that legitiamte complaints need to be listened to and addressed, otherwise frustration grows into anger that can end in violence. Unfortunately, part of our own frustration was in getting more of Farmingville's middle of the road residents to trust us enough to cooperate in sharing their story.

As to the need for this force in the economy, it is a sector by sector situation. Look at the H2 visas that were being given out just a few short years ago to deal with high tech labor shortage. But the reality is that, at least on a place like Long Island, this work force is crucial. At the time the events in the documentary took place, Long Island's unemployment rate was about 2.7%. There simply are not people around to do those jobs. I am in complete agreement about this workforce allowing us to live like gentry. But in that regard, my personal view is that their presence, in turn, allows us individually to be more productive. For example, if I don't have to worry about doing my laundry, cleaning my apartment, or mowing my yard, I have free time to pusue other activites such as working overtime, or spending time with family.

Finally, in traveling with the film, in other parts of the country, I have continously come across contractors and other employers who say they have taken out ads offering benefits, paid vacation, etc. and not had responses.

European countries are actually recruiting workers from other countries, providing language and skill training because there's no one within their own countries to do certain work. So overall, I would say that given our greying and more educated population, it's not simply a matter of availablity, it's also a matter of necessity if our economy is to continue to grow (there are a bunch of statistics on the economic contribution of immigrant labor to the US economy that unfortunately I don't have at my disposal).

Carlos Sandoval

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Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: I saw your show last night and noticed that these day workers were making $2,000.00 for 20 days work. Thats $2,000.00/month, an amount any American would work for, contrary to what open borders people claim. I didn't make much more and as a registered nurse I had to have a college education. If these day workers make that much then open borders people are lying to the American people.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: In New York, day labor work pays better than minimum wage but such labor is difficult, irregular , and often dangerous. The average hourly wage ($9.23) for day labor work is about $4.22 more than the New York and federal manimum wage during normal demand conditions (i.e, spring and summer months). During the off-peak winter months, this figure drops to $7.61, $2.46 more than the minimum wage.

Average monthly wages vary for day laborers depending on seasonal periods and demand. Dring a good month, day laborers on average earn $1,450. During a bad month, they earn on average about $500.

Day labor work is a full time endeavor. Eighty-three percent of all day laborers work in this market full time; the other 17 percent hold a part time job that on average occupies about 27 hours of their seven-day work week.

You can find other answers to frequently asked questions by going to www.activevoice.net and downloading the Farmingville Discussion Guide.

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Toledo, OH: Over my desk, hangs a sign with the inscription that is on the Statue of Liberty who stands on America's doorstep. "Bring me your tired, your poor..." So, I was very happy to hear the comments made by Catherine Tambini at the end of the documentary as they mirror my own thoughts about what our country was founded on.
I just spent a year living and volunteering in a Latino community in Chicago, IL. I met many hardworking people there who were far from their families, but whose quality of life here far exceeded their quality of life in Mexico. Despite the fact that they live in substandard housing, have no health insurance (even if they are legal), and no permanent job, they see themselves as far better off than they were at home with no hope. Here there is hope.
Thank you for making this film and I hope that this documentary receives the attention that it deserves.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Thank you. We are already having a tremendous response and our hopes of affecting change within communities that are receiving large numbers of immigrants can be realized.

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New York, New York: Carlos/Catherine:

First off -- Congratulations on getting this film made!; It is
amazing.

In your travels, have you noticed that the documentary
has helped to created a positive dialogue or broader
understand between the two communities profiled,
outside of Farmingville, where smilier issues may exist?

Edwin Pagan - NALIP Board Member

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Dear Edwin Pagan,

I don't think we've met, but I have actually worked with Kathyrn Galan on several NALIP panels on funding.

It's hard to answer your question with any empirical evidence because in traveling with the film we usually only have time for a question and answer period and no follow up.

However, anecdotally I can say that people come up to us frequently and say that the film has given them new insight into "the other side", whether it be a Latino talking about the complaints of Anglo residents, or an Anglo resident talking about the humanization of Latino laborers.

More importantly, we are working with P.O.V.'s sister organization, Active Voice on a vigorous outreach campaign. They have developed some extraordianry materials that use the film as a platform for dialog. You can go to www.activevoice.net and download those materials. They are hoping to target in particular public service providers, such as police. Active Voice also arranged a screening/conference at the Brookings Institute which brought people from across the country to discuss the day laborer issue for the first time at this high a level. We recently received a request from the Asylum department of Homeland Security to screen the film.

Where I can attest to some dialog is in Farmingville itself. I thought it was a lost cause. After several screenings on Long Island in which people from the film participated, some of them are now talking about taking direct steps to try to move forward. That has been the most surprising and gratifying response to the movie.

Regards,
Carlos Sandoval

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Farmingville, New York: The film was good, but I feel that the racial issue for most of Farmingville is not true. Many people such as myself have hispanic people in their families. The living conditions that is going on here is terrible so many in one house I can't believe that houses that were once nice look deplorable. Blinds in the windows all broken, cars all over the place and the amount of garbage is unblievable I can't believe the town let's this go on. This is not only the American Dream for them,but is for many of Farmingville also. I feel something has to be done as a community we can not keep up with the influx of Hispanics coming into the Farmingville area. I pray there is a solution to this problem.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Most of the people of Farmingville are not racist. Farmingville is in a difficult position. Becaues rents there are cheaper and there are a number of landlords willing to crowd a lot of people into a single family home Farmingville has become a dormitory for the men who are being taken to other parts of the island to work. No one wants to have twenty or thirty men living in a house next door to them. You have legitimate complaints. One of the large problems on Long Island is that there is no affordable housing. Housing laws are difficult to enforce. It is not an easy sitution all the way around.

Our federal immigration laws need to be changed so that we can begin to accomodate the needs of our country. If those here working illegally had some legitimacy they would not be as ripe for exploitation by those willing to take advantage of their plight.

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Rochester, NY: It would be interesting to get drawings/photos/comments of the ancestors of the original human inhabitants of Farmingville, Long Island (The Native American tribe of that area) I would suspect the Mexican workers have more Native American ancestry then the "legal residents." In that sense, the Mexicans have a more legitimate right to be in "America" then the European Americans who seem to be shouting that they were there first. Did anyone in Farmingville consider this? - Janet

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: There is a wonderful poster that the Workplace Project has. On it is a Native American wearing his full regalia of feathered headdress, beads, ceremonial blanket carrying a sign that says, "Deport All Illegal Aliens."

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East Lansing, Michi.: How did the dynamics change (if at all) after September 11th between the two divided groups?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Immediately after September 11, the dynamics changed in that things quited considerably. Farmingville is close enough to Manhattan that it lost several firefighers and police officers. So the whole community was traumatized. Their focus shifted from the day laborers to their own losses.

One resident said, "Now maybe the rest of the country will know what it feels like to live with the unknown next door."

A number of the men returned to Mexico sooner than they would have, afraid a war might break out. Some residents, namely the SQL tried to use 9/11 to promote their own agenda. But overall, it did not seem to have a lasting change in the dynamic.

One other thing. We actually choose not to address 9/11 after a work-in-progress screening session provided to us by the Sundance Documentary Fund. We were struggling with the edit at that point, in good part because of 9/11. Members of the panel recommended we should ignore it because it would take the viewer out of the story, and risk dating what is otherwise a kind of timeless moment in the making of America.

Thanks for your question.

Carlos Sandoval

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Lyme, Conn.: What was the division of labor between two filmmakers, or was everything primarily a collabortion between you both?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Primarily a collaboration. Catherine handled the camera and Carlos mapped out the story. There was significant input from our two editors John Bloomgarden who did a masterful job in helping us shape the film cutting down over two hundred hours of material into a cohesive story, and Mary Manhardt who helped us hone it down further and polish it into what you saw last night.

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Canoga Park, CA : What ever happened to the initial female leader of the SQL?
Is she still leading the community in the removing the day laborers?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Margaret stepped down from the presidency of the SQL due to health reasons but is still active with the SQL. She has participated in a number of panel discussions after the screening of the film in various locations on Long Island.

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New York, N.Y.: How have groups like FAIR (featured in Farmingville) responded to the film?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: In doing a series of screenings on Long Island, we asked Jim Staudenraus of FAIR (who is seen in the movie) to participate on panels, which he did. He never presented us with direct criticism of the movie.

So we were a little surprised today to find out that yesterday, just before broadcast, FAIR issued a press release calling the film "one-sided and distorted." The surprise comes more from the timing than the response since Jim S. saw an earlier form of the movie last Fall.

For more on FAIR, I suggest you take a look at an editorial which ran in the Wall Street Journal last week.

By the way, contrary to FAIR's observation, reviewers have praised the film for its balance, one Long Island newspaper saying that we "bent over backwards" to be fair.

Our POV website contains a statement by Dan Stein, Executive Director of FAIR. Go to www.pov.org and follow the Farmingville link.

Carlos Sandoval

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Houston, TX: What was your feel for the mood in Farmingville? Did you feel that the majority supported the Sachem Quality of Life, or were they just the vocal minority?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: One month after the beatings of the two day laborers the SQL brought in Glenn Spencer of SQL to speak at the local VFW hall. The room was packed with Farmingville residents. A year later at the second SQL conference that you saw in the film the room was mostly empty. Most residents were not willing to go as far as the SQL. The SQL remains a very vocal minority.
CT

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Minneapolis, MN: Your film was pure propaganda. How about the recent hate crime by a gang of illegal aliens on the American couple in Long Island, where the man was severely beaten and the woman repeatedtly raped? I guess that doesn't fit into your definition of "hate crime".

Also, I'm an AMERICAN of Hispanic heritage who is vehemently opposed to illegal immigration. Illegal aliens are not "immigrants", rather they are invaders that should be deported. They can wait their turn if they want to come here legally. I see nothing hateful about insisting on securing our borders.

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: I haven't heard about the incident you refer to. While I've been tied up with the film at the cost of being aware of many news items, I feel I'd have heard about this, so I doubt its veracity.

You're right, there is nothing hateful in insisting our borders be secured. The problem is that we, as a country, have continued to be dependent on this labor source while not providing a legal means of obtaining it.

During the Depression, people were deported, including citizens who were Mexican American. Seven decades later, it's pretty clear that mass deportation is ineffective.

I am also an American of Hispanic heritage, at least 6th generation American as a matter of fact. That's why I chose to make a film that most reviewers and critics (including Lou Dobbs who is no friend of illegal immigration) have considered balanced.

I'm sorry that the vehemence of your position has led to a venemous position on the issue rather than one of open dialog.

Carlos Sandoval

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Miami Florida: How did you gain the confidence of both sides of the contraversy? The dayworkers must have seen you with the protesting community residents and vice versa. Didn't both camps feel suspicious?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Initially Carlos spent a lot of time in the community going to meetings with all the different groups to try to gain their trust. Most did not want to be filmed. The Mexican men wanted to remain annonymous, the residents were afraid to let their neighbors see which side of the issue they were on and the community had been tarred as racist so they were even less willing to talk, the SQL did not want to participate.

Eventually Carlos rented a house in Farmingville and moved in. Catherine lives about half an hour away and was able to commute daily (although there were times when she stayed there as well).

We were there full time for about 9 months. We told everyone that we wanted to tell their side of the story and that we couldn't tell it if they wouldn't tell us what it was. We were up front with everyone in telling them that we were looking at the issues from all sides.

Carlos became friends with Margaret and it was she who allowed us to film the SQL's side. Matilde, the Salvadoran refugee who works with the Mexican men, saw the benefit in having us film their activities and convinced them to participate. Louise, the resident who walks us through her neighborhood, happened to come out of her house one day while Catherine was filming and started talking because she was so fed up with what was going on in her neighborhood.

We are thankful to all those who participated and allowed us to tell their side of the story.

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Chicago, IL: When a town like Farmingville becomes a magnet for migrants, it is usually (always?) the case that there were disincentives to investment in the town before this occurs. It is these disincentives (often environmental problems) which then lead to (for example) overcrowding in housing as a way of selling houses when single families no longer want them. Was this the case in Farmingvile?

Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: I'm not entirely certain what you mean by disincentives to invest in a town due to enviormental reasons, but I'll attempt an answer.

So far as I know, Farmingville was, and continues to be a flourishing community. Even though it's about 60 miles from New York, people commute from Farmingville to work in Manhattan. I mention this because of the housing pressures that have pushed people to live at great distances, which in turn causes a demand for housing, which in turn, has led to investments in these communities. Farmingville is an unincorporated hamlet, so it really blends in with the communities around it. My observation was that there is great investment in the area. A new high school, for example is opening this year. In the course of our filming, several banks and hotels opened in Farmingville (it's close to Islip airport, making it a convenient spot for businesses, etc. to come to). In the mid-90's when the situation we film began, that region of Long Island was undergoing rapid growth from the high tech sector (Computer Associates and Symbol Technologies are nearby). So in Farmingville, I would say it was the opposite, that is that the demand created by an overheated economy led to the demand for labor.

Hope that answers your questions.

Carlos Sandoval

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Carlos Sandoval and Catherine Tambini: Thank you all for your stimulating questions. We found many supportive comments and some strong disagreement.

Overall, it was a great experience. We've stayed on a half hour longer than anticipated because we became so involved. Unfortunately we both feel drained right now, so we're signing off.

If you want to know more about the film or want to pursue the topic further, we welcome you to visit the "Farmingville" web site at www.pov.org (follow the links).

Regards,
Catherine & Carlos

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