Chatological Humor*

People got offended. Go figure.

Gene Weingarten (Richard Thompson - The Washington Post)

*Formerly known as "Funny? You Should Ask."

Gene Weingarten's controversial humor column, Below the Beltway, appears every Sunday in the Washington Post Magazine. He aspires to someday become a National Treasure, but is currently more of a National Gag Novelty Item, like rubber dog poo.

He is online, at any rate, each Tuesday, to take your questions and abuse.

He'll chat about anything.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Gene Weingarten: Good afternoon. It was a great week for controversy.

One of my favorite enterprises is engaging someone in conversation who is DEADLY serious about something, so serious that he cannot possibly see that the subject is inherently funny. So for the last two weeks I have signed onto the NY Giants chat room during the game, as the spazzo Giants were in the process of losing about as ignominiously as possible. In those circumstances you find yourself surrounded not only by rabid fans, but rabid fans geeky enough to be signed on during the game.

The first week, I wrote that I thought that since the season was lost, it was time to pull a Charlie Finley-type crowd-pleasing stunt, like when he sent a midget up to bat. I proposed that the Giants suit up a couple of women, throw 'em in for a few plays, see what happens: "And not in the weenie positions, like placekicker. Outside linebacker or strong-side safety." I proposed that for publicity purposes the women be famous, like Jane Pauley or Carolina Kennedy. Well, the only debate that followed was about whether it was right that it was time for a desperation move.

So on Sunday, I said that I thought there was a brilliant solution to the terrible crisis the Giants were in: Trade every player on the Giants, one for one, right away, for a player on the Baltimore Ravens. Throw in enough money to sweeten the deal! Switch the teams!! That way we would IMMEDIATELY be a playoff contender.

The only debate that followed was what a MORON I am for even CONSIDERING losing Jeremy Shockey and Michael Strahan. So then I posted the following, verbatim:

"I regret to say that you gents are showing all the lack of imagination that has resulted in your being stuck in dead-end, low-paying jobs, and married to unattractive women with scabs and warts, self-medicating yourselves into oblivion nearly every night to avoid having to face the hellish disaster that is your life.

We trade the team. Bingo. Problem solved.

Hey, they laughed at Gates when he thought it might be a good idea to attach a typewriter to a TV."

People got offended. Go figure.

There is a fascinating racial controversy playing out regionally in the Florida media this week. Very, very touchy. Eggshells! So let's nationalize it right here, why don't we? Drag out the hobnail boots. A columnist for the Naples Daily News wrote this column: Why the Hip-Hop Winterfest in Collier Went Bust, (Naples Daily News, Dec. 2), which wound up causing huge consternation, including this editorial: A Journalistic Lesson in Racism, (St. Petersburg Times, Dec. 23). The writer of the original column apologized profusely, as did his editor.

I find this whole thing really interesting, and highly provocative, and wonder what you think. I'd particularly like to hear from African-American readers. I have my own thoughts, which I'll share later. (Plus, my own thoughts might be influenced by what you guys post.)

Great news on the comics page: A comics war! The comic pick of the week goes hands down to Stephan Pastis for Monday and Tuesday's "Pearls Before Swine," fearlessly throwing down the gauntlet for a conversation long overdue. It eclipsed some other excellent offerings this week, including Sunday's "Rhymes with Orange," Sunday's "Pearls," and today's "Boondocks."

Okay, let's go.

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Wonder IN: Hey -- it's nice to see the icon for the Sunday Magazine on the main page, but we folk out here in middle America want to know, was there a Sunday Magazine for Dec. 21? Did Gene write a column? What else was in the magazine? Maybe it was totally censored? As I send this query off to you on Monday morning, the Dec. 14 magazine is still the one that comes up and there is no way to access Gene or Dave Barry or any of the rest of the content from the 21st.

Just in case I have Liz's attention -- the content of washingtonpost.com is often not rolled over on Saturday/Sunday or long holiday weekends. I guess the people who are usually in charge have the day off and whoever is still working doesn't have all the steps down pat yet. The headlines change, but the dropdown menu for TODAY'S EDITORIALS, OPINIONS, COLUMNS remains on the previous day. Often the dropdown menu is never updated and Sunday is completely lost. When the regular workers come back, the menu switches from Saturday to Monday, just like Sunday never happened.

Since the Sunday Magazine happens just once a week, I am hopeful that someone will load the mag from the 21st before it's time to put up the one for the 28th!;

Gene Weingarten: The December 21 magazine was pulled from the paper at the last minute because it contained a story that might have embarrassed a key advertiser of the Post. The order was given personally by Bo "Boisfeuillet" Jones, the publisher, and required a team of 200 interns to personally remove the magazines, one by one, in the press room. The editor, Tom Shroder, was fired and subsequently committed suicide. The offending magazines were destroyed in a giant bonfire on a barge in the Potomac River in the dead of the night Monday morning, without proper authorization, leading to serious national security concerns and, ultimately, the raising of the Terror Alert Code to Orange, a decision which has not been rescinded because Homeland Security administrators would have to admit the embarrassing truth.

Kidding, kidding. Boy, you people will believe ANYTHING that demonizes the Post, won't you? One day a year - the Sunday closest to Christmas - the Post magazine does not publish. It happens every year.

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Depen, DS: Ahem. Submitted for your reading pleasure:
German plant turns incontinence pads into power, (CNN.com)

BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- Germany has only a small amount of its own natural oil reserves, but an enterprising power plant chief believes it has found an alternative source of energy with a bright future in an aging nation -- used incontinence pads.

Gene Weingarten: Thank you.

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Washington, D.C.: Analgesic is to Migraine as:

(A) Bandage : Wound; or,

(B) Decongestant : Cold.

The answer is B, right?

Gene Weingarten: Yes.

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Washlefting Post: Your response to whether or not you should apologize to President Bush last week was one of the most liberal loads of "horsepatootie" I have read in a long time. Who are "we" Mr. Weingarten? I was never led to believe these things. Can you name one war that the American public was led to believe that? If history tells us anything, a war costs us time, money, and unfortunately lives. I suppose the Democratic Party just forgot about Vietnam, which was 25 years of wasted time, money, and lives. Lets try to have a little more open mind about some of these things, even you did not get a 1600 on your SAT; so there is much room for improvement. Poop.

Gene Weingarten: I don't pretend toward expertise in any area other than antique clock repair and the etiology and ontology of scatology. So when it comes to geopolitics, I am just an ordinary guy asking ordinary questions. But yes, I think that we were seriously misled about Iraq. I think that our president has already made it clear this is going to cost vastly more in lives and dollars than he ever suggested - and I believe that at least part of the misleading was tactical, bordering on "lying." I do not think George would have amassed even the tepid international support he had for this operation - or the strong national support - had we not gargantuanly misstated Saddam's potential for inflicting his evil on others. I am no isolationist, and it may well be that it was the moral responsibility of our country to liberate the people of Iraq from a monstrous tyrant, but shouldn't our people have been trusted with that decision, based on the merits?

Why do you think an appalling 50 percent of Americans think Saddam Hussein was somehow involved in 9/11? You think our president has done nothing to foster that idea?

It's all bad. No apologies, still.

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Dublin, Ireland: The Empress of the Style Invitational got off to a shaky start on Sunday by dissing the erswhile Czar. Can we learn a bit more about The Empress (anagram: "Thee Sperms")? Is she from New York? Is she plump? Is she well-balanced, with a chip on each shoulder? Is she a nice person? Is she Carolyn Hax?

Gene Weingarten: I personally am not as familiar with The Empress as some other people are, though "a chip on each shoulder" is excellent, and sounds about right. Pat the Perfect, however, is in touch with persons close to the Empress. If Pthep is around, perhaps she can enlighten us.

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Washington, D.C.: Scientists have discovered a gene responsible for deluding talentless hacks into thinking they are funny. They have dubbed the discovery Gene Weingarten. Reaction?

washingtonpost.com: Every... f-ing... week with this one. Sheesh.

Gene Weingarten: Okay, will you stop now? Thanks.

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wrong again, gw: What happened to your fact-checking guys? The midget stunt was pulled by Bill Veeck, not Finley.

Gene Weingarten: Right. Ooop. Well, I WROTE finley in the giants chat, so I was COMPLETELY ACCURATE in this chat, by accurately quoting myself. So you are wrong.

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Metro Center, Washington, D.C.: Hi Gene:
I read the editorial and I don't think it is the least bit funny. I am African-American and I am sick and tired of people who think that this kind of racism is acceptable. It's NOT FUNNY and if you think that making jokes about blacks is funny, you are just as racist as the next person. Now granted, the column was about a hiphop festival, and not MLK Day or somehting to that magnitude. Oh, and BTW, I'm 25 years old, love hiphop, and I don't speak like that.

And no, I don't plan to "get over it" because if a black person did such a thing, we would never hear the end of it.

Gene Weingarten: Howdy. Okay, thanks. More, please.

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New York, N.Y.: Every year I look forward to Dave's year-in-review column. Do you get any input? Do you get to read it prior to printing?

Also, have you thought of doing your own cartoon year-in-review column?

washingtonpost.com: Dave Barry will be online Dec. 29 right here to talk about his year in review column.

Gene Weingarten: It is one of my favorite things, every year. From 1985 through 1990, I edited it, so I got to read it REAL early, and even nitpick.

Now, I'm just a fan. I have it right here, and will be reading it after the chat.

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Arlington, Va.: Gene, was that you? Last Friday night? Dinner at CB on Cap Hill?

Gene Weingarten: Yes. Were you the one in the giraffe suit?

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Hometown, US: Took a quick glance at the article you mentioned. I'm quite interested in visiting the past century, when I go down to Naples this week.

Gene Weingarten: Ok, more.

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Goodwill Toward, MN: In these serious times, let's hope that we can eliminate the casual disregard for our fellow man that plagues us in every aspect of life.

Meryy Christmas, Gene!;

Gene Weingarten: Somegody get this guy outta here.

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Tikrit, Iraq: I completely agree with your dismissal of the "Matrix." The sequels are even worse (I had to take my 12-year-old.)

Here are a few suggestions of other highly praised films that in fact suck out loud.

GONE WITH THE WIND
KING OF HEARTS (gag gag gag)
MELVIN AND HOWARD
TITANIC
EASY RIDER
MANHATTAN (seen it lately? I have.)
ANY JAMES BOND FILM AFTER "GOLDFINGER"
FROM HERE TO ETERNITY (doesn't hold up -- and who wants surf in her nose anyway?)
IN THE BEDROOM (talk about dreary...)
THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE

Any thoughts?

washingtonpost.com: You've gone too far with that last one, Pilgrim.

Gene Weingarten: I haven't seen them all. I certainly agree with you on GWTW and King of Hearts and Manhattan, mostly, on Titanic. I was shocked at how badly Easy Rider stood up. But you are wrong on Liberty Valance, and Liz is right.

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Washingtooon: Who is someone who doesn't look anything like you would think he or she should look like, given what he or she does? Or did? Past or present.

Gene Weingarten: Interesting.

Buddy Holly comes to mind.

Also, Harry Truman.

Any other nominations?

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Please Validate, ME: Gene, I know you still have ties to the Czarist regime, so I hope you will humor me for the next few sentences.

As heartbroken as I was not to have even been an honorable mention in the four-words-or-fewer movie reviews contest, I suddenly -- not to mention several weeks too late -- thought of the perfect entry.

Just for my own piece of mind, would you be so kind as to rate the following movie review and tell me if the Czar might have thought it worthy?

Movie review for "Titanic": Ahoy vey!;

Thank you.

Gene Weingarten: Fair to good. Maybe a solid good. Not a winner.

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F'shizzle, it was the edditizzel: Well, I don't mind the editorial. I just wonder how the white guy can write like that? Did he have someone over his shoulder helping him? Some people do talk like that -- and it isn't just one type -- lots of kids these days talk like that (those pink, purple, green, white and black). Who cares? It was funny nevertheless.

Gene Weingarten: Okay. More.

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Laurel, Md.: The Post Travel section had an article last Sunday about celebrating Christmas in New York. Seeing as you've now had Christmas in New York, Miami and Washington (and, I assume, grew up not celebrating it) which city do you think makes the best and worst Christmas?

Gene Weingarten: New York is the best. Because, you know, it's New York. Christmas in Miami is idiotic, which is a plus. But its also hot, which is not a plus. Dave Barry told it perfectly a couple weeks ago.

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Pgh, PA: Another nominee - Evis Costello.

Gene Weingarten: Yeah, that's pretty good. But it's the Buddy Holly paradox, repeated, so it loses something.

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Pat the Perfect, ME : In response to the Byrning question from Dublin:
The Empress, in my opinion, is too nice for her own good. She is, however, nowhere nearly as nice as Carolyn Hax. As the photo on the Dec. 14 Invitational page shows, she is fairly vertical (except for an unfortunately swollen, spherical head, which she understandably does not display).
As for her dissing The Czar, well, once he called her Flabbo. That sort of thing cannot go unaddressed.
Three Sperms!; The Empress is amused.

Gene Weingarten: Wait. How do you KNOW the Empress is amused?

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Washington, D.C.: Ref. the Naples brouhaha. Seems to me that hillbillies and Southerners with tattoos, Confederate flags and cans of Pabst Blue Ribbon are the constant subjects of parody and rarely does anyone rush to defend that culture. Meanwhile, the culture of hip hop can rap about b-tc-hes and hoes and the promiscuity of your mother and it deserves protection. I don't get it.

Gene Weingarten: Okay. I'll weigh in in a minute. For what it's worth.

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Naples scuf, FL: As in most of these types of situations, it is not possible to read the intent of the author. Was the author intending to have some fun with the hip hop culture's language, as some do with Yiddish, for example? Was the author intending to insult the culture, thus insulting its roots -- African American culture? I can see it both ways -- but have to think (hope) the intent was the former. BTW -- I am not African American.

Gene Weingarten: This is interesting.

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Black Editori, AL: Many would say that a double standard exists whereby comics like Dave Chapelle or Chris Rock can talk in "white" (nerdy) voices and it's funny while non-black comics (or in this case, columnists) talking in a stereotypically "black" manner would be considered racists. My take on it is that white folks need to suck it up and accept that being made fun of is universally acceptable and not get all bent out of shape over it. It's called accepting your comeuppance for too many years of dispensed horror.

BTW - MWM w/child who is a BIG hip hop fan.

Gene Weingarten: I don't think that this guy was writing in a stereotypically "black" voice. I think he was writing in hip-hop, or what he perceived to be hiphop. Hang on, a couple more posts coming up, then me.

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New York, N.Y.: Without judging the offensiveness of article in question, why is it this article gets labeled racist, but movies such as "Airplane" that make the same "joke" are funny? Were people less sensitive in the 70 and 80s? Are movies a medium that can tolerate offensive language?

Gene Weingarten: Interesting point.

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The Empress of The Style Invitational: Please let the peon know that there were literally thousands of entries to the terse-reviews contest. A number of fairly amusing entries did not get ink. There are only so many of these a newspaper reader can see at one time without getting bored. Trust me on this.

washingtonpost.com: Wow... the empress herself.

Gene Weingarten: Holy cow. Berkeley Breathed, the Empress? Who's next... Dubya?

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Washington, D.C.: I am black and thought the column was pretty funny, assuming the columnist was a humorist and not an editorialist. I cannot follow the flow of hip hop jargon and found the English translation helpful. Every good joke has an element of truth. Lighten up people!

The same professional journalists ironically do not take offense at the creators and perpetrators of crimes against literacy. The same goes for the morally indignant who allow black men the luxury of misogyny in music and think it does not permeate the culture. We open ourselves up to this type of critique, not that the column was a commentary on the entire black race.

Gene Weingarten: Okay, I'm next. Hang on.

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Gene Weingarten: Much of the criticism nationally about this colum was from black people and that carries a lot of weight with me; in my experience, the people who are OFTEN most offended are not the targets of an alleged offense, but those who are trying to show sensitivity to another group.

However, I have to say, I am not sure I see the offense here. Assuming his patois is pretty on target (I am no hip-hop expert, but it seems pretty good) it seems to me that his column was:

1) Pretty funny, and

2) Not at the expense of black people OR hip-hop. The hip-hop language he chose was interesting, funny, colorful, and vastly more efficient than the stiff, stilted white-guy "translations." He wasn't criticizing the promoters of the concert, or belittling their concerns.

In a way, this seems a little like the controversy over "niggardly," a controversy that shouldn't have happened, in my opinion.

I do disagree with one poster: I suspect that if a black columnist had written this, there would NOT have been complaints.

Mostly, I hate the column ABOUT the column. I think it is disingenuous. The columnist suggests it was bizarre to write in hip-hop in a column about hip-hop, which is just silly. And his line about how he hopes the newspaper doesn't abandon satire is, well, pathetic. They ain't gonna come CLOSE to satire for the next millennium.

Am I sure of myself on this? No. And I am mostly not sure because a substantial number of black people seem to have found this offensive. But I am not really understanding why.

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Epifuh, NY: It's not racist. The article never references the race of the attendees, police, concert promoters, etc. It does, however, speak to the urban slang that transcends race, thanks to teenagers of all races listening to their walkmen too #$#-%- loudly on my subway car. So until MTV stops promoting "Doggy Fizzle Televizzle" as the hip new show I'm supposed to be watching, I refuse to believe that adding "iz" and apostrophes to language is going to make me racist. It just makes me stoopid.

Gene Weingarten: This came in after I took that long hiatus.

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The Empress of The Style Invitational: If Liz is so impressed with The Empress, why did she not link to the Dec. 14 Invitational? I suspect Pants Envy.

washingtonpost.com: Ack, coming right up: Dec. 14 SI.
And as an added tribute a linke to Dec. 21 SI

Gene Weingarten: okay.

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Chicago, Ill.: Greetings,
Now that you are entering some variation on super status, can you permit your real photo to appear on the chat?

Gene at Armpit Festival
AASFE Feature
Another one

Thanks...

washingtonpost.com: I'd just like to add that on that last link, the best reading is under "Remarks."

Gene Weingarten: Yes, I agree with Liz.

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Alexandria, Va.: I'm white, middle-aged, female. I thought the Naples article was funny. I'm old enough to remember similar articles about slang my generation used in the late 60's, early 70's, with "translation" provided by the writer(s). Is anybody disputing that slang like that is indeed used by hip-hop fans? And appears in hip-hop music?

It's another form of dialect joke, which is equal opportunity humor, seems to me - Southern accents used in redneck jokes, Jewish accents in New York jokes, Italian accents in the "halo, statue?" joke, etc.

And anyone who protests and says "mentioning criticisms from the association and myself" instead of "and me" is a pretentious weenie.

Gene Weingarten: I agree. But honestly, I wish I had heard more black people say they were not offended.

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The Burbs....: As a (white) mother of two mixed race (white and black -- my husband prefers black to African American) children, I am horrified by the editorial....How does the columnist still have a job? How does the editor who allowed the article still have a job?

In addition to the column not being funny, it isn't funny that the police chose a hip-hop concert to bring the mobile breath analyzer. Do you think they do the same thing when the three tenors come to town? Don't they know that old white people like their before concert refreshments, too.

The whole thing is a lesson in racist behavior, beginning with the police and continuing with the columnist.

As a juxtaposition, why do people find it so odd that Strom Thurmond has a mixed race child? A lot of slave owners assumed that sex with a "domestic" was part of the privilege of owning the person. At least he wasn't a hypocrit about it -- he didn't like black people and he said so. He treated them badly consistently and without apology. Lots of us disagreed with him, but he didn't care. He stood his ground and got lots of respect for it.

Maybe the columnist should take a page from Strom's book....say what you mean and then stand behind it...no matter what the consequences.

Gene Weingarten: Well, yes ... but I think that the writer was trying to MAKE the case that the cops were wrong. At least he got the issue out there. And again -- I think the butt of this joke, if there was a butt -- were the white people.

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Washington, D.C.: So, finally Opus isn't a dream sequence for once. But it remained the exact same joke it's been for the strip's entire run thus far: Fat, ugly, penguins in Antartica aren't as sexy and desirable as persons elsewhere.

C'mon. Something new, please.

Gene Weingarten: Lets watch. I am worrying that without a daily presence to advance a storyline, the pressure on Berkeley is too great.

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Coat, TX: People with incongruous appearance:

I would submit Michael Jackson, but not so much because he looks different than one would imagine a pop singer looking, but because he looks so much different than one would imagine a HUMAN looking.

Gene Weingarten: Okay!

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Candorville: Hi Gene,

I am curious: What is your opinion of this comic? Though the characters are primarily minority, it doesn't seem to be aiming for any particular audience (as mentioned in today's "Pearls Before Swine"). I think the main character is supposed to be a stand in for the cartoonist. What do you think?

Candorville:
Dec. 17 | Dec. 23 | Dec. 21 | Dec. 10 | Dec. 12

Gene Weingarten: Boy, talk about appropriate to the moment.

I really like this comic! I'd never seen it before. It is obviously influenced by Boondocks, but is better drawn and tempers its anger with humor. It has elements of Goofus and Gallant, too!

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Fairfax, Va.: OK, I think the biggest problem (re the Naples thing) is the two HUGE assumptions that the editorial writer admits that he made: ONE is that he assumes that HipHop equals black people (regardless of where it started, it has a whole lot wider audience now -- all colors, shapes and sizes.) TWO is that he assumes that the slang used in speaking inplies something about the intelligence level of the person speaking that way -- historically not accurate -- I'm sure some of our CEOs of today spoke the "flower power" lingo of the 60s, and phrases like "bling bling" are moving more into the common vernacular -- check out Jay Leno or our own local Jack Diamond show in the am.

Anyways, just my two cents -- people need to relax and enjoy the humor -- whether it is white, black, redneck, Yiddish or HipHop!

Gene Weingarten: This is very well put. I agree.

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U Street, Washington, D.C.: I am 28 and black and enjoy older hip hop immensely. But it would be wildly hypocritical of me to chastise the author without looking at a couple of the points made here. One is that yes, black comics often speak in "white voice" and their fans of all races find it hysterical. So how is that any different? Are the people as outraged at the article outraged at them? Two, hip hop many times REALLY DOES SOUND LIKE THAT. Watch Snoop Dog on MTV just once to see how he talks and he is wildly popular among teens of all races. So why is their a segment of the black community that is so outraged, without addressing these points? I dont know. So no, I didnt mind the article given the context in which I took it in.

Gene Weingarten: Thank you. I like the way this is going. Let's get the writer's head out of the noose.

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Notfun, NY: Gene, you said that "I think that the writer was trying to MAKE the case that the cops were wrong." If that's what he was trying to do, he failed utterly: the column only serves to ridicule the speaker's complaint about the cops by making it clear that the complainant is so ignorant as to require translation.

Oops, almost forgto: you moron.

Gene Weingarten: I don't see this. I think basically he is talking about an astonishing dysfunction in communication between two parts of society. I read this piece and concluded the cops were wrong.

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Fairfax, Va.: Saw your Battle mountain pic. Just curious, where do you rank on the Whitest Man on the Planet rankings? How close to the top are you?

Gene Weingarten: No Jew can be close to hitting that pinnacle. NO Jew. All Jews are part African American.

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Georgetown, Washington, D.C.: The tip of my right index finger has been tingling for almost a week. I know Gina would have recommended visiting a doctor by now, but how much longer would you wait to see if it either cleared up or fell off? I'm left handed, so I don't view this as a critical problem.

Gene Weingarten: This is called a parasthesia. It can signal the onset of several terrible illnesses, including amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Or it can mean nothing. Good luck.

NEVER ask an expert on hypochondria a question like that.

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New York, N.Y.: "No Jew can be close to hitting that pinnacle. NO Jew. All Jews are part African American. "

Not even converts? From Scandanavia?

Gene Weingarten: I, personally, don't recognize converts as Jews. It's not that I disrespect converts, but to me, Judaism is ethnicity, not religion.

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Damascus, Md.: So, are you actually Stephan Pastis, or does he just read these chats? Today's strip certainly laid all the cards on the table, didn't it?

Gene Weingarten: It did indeed. Yes, I have been saying this, but so have others, including Breathed. Pastis just put it out there in a way Breathed hasn't and I can't.

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New York, N.Y.: I went outside to get to work today. By the time I arrived I had a sniffle. Wegener's Granulomatosis (sp?), I'm sure. How long do I have, Gene?

Gene Weingarten: Good news. Wegener's takes YEARS to kill you. First, it reduces you to a withered skeleton with pussy sores.

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All Jews, AA: You meant to say that "All Jews are African" right? Not "African American?" Because, if what you said was true, it would logically follow that all Jews were American...

Gene Weingarten: I stand corrected.

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Gene Weingarten: Oop, out of time. Thank you all for an excellent and provocative discussion. And Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. See you in 2004. Liz gets a week off.

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