Author Mary Gaitskill and her husband thought bringing a poor urban child into their home in the country for two weeks would be a rewarding
experience. Ultimately, it was -- but only after considerable heartache.
Gaitskill, whose article about the experience appeared in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine, will be online Monday, May 10 at 1 p.m. ET to field
questions and comments about the article and about the perils of being a stand-in mother.
Gaitskill is a novelist and story writer. Her latest book is the story
collection "Because They Wanted To."
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Washington, D.C.:
Ms. Gaitskill
First of all I must tell you that I am a HUGE fan of your writing and have been since your first collection, "Bad Behavior" was published when I was in college. The article really was very moving, my partner and I have discussed adoption, but the fundamental change of having a child in the house and it's affect on our relationship seems pretty daunting. Did you and your husband consider this before fostering?
Mary Gaitskill: Thanks very much. Yes, we did consider what a big thing it would be even just to have a child we didn't know in the house for two weeks. But we pictured tucking him in, kissng him goodnight, all the most beautiful stuff. We were a combination of extremely nervous and longing. We knew it would be tough, but we didn't have any idea how tough! We also underestimated how tough it would be for the children--imagine going to stay with completely strange people at the age of six! And for poor Isaiah, who knew already at seven that we were basically the enemy--my God, what a thing for a seven-year-old to have to deal with
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Bowie, Md.:
I found your piece moving and powerful. I have a few questions:
How,logistically, did you work out hosting a child for two weeks? I assume that both of you work full-time. Since you're a writer, do you work from home? Or did one/both of you take two weeks' vacation during the host period?
What advice would you give to other childless couples who want to do this?
Finally--have you made any decisions about having children of your own?
Mary Gaitskill: Luckily for us we are both writers and we both work at home, so we arranged just not to work for those weeks. It must be incredibly tough for families were both the parents work--which is most families these days.
My advice for childless couples, if I dare give advice, would be to if possible have a family with kids near-by who are prepared to play with and welcome the guests. The most successful days we had will Isaiah were when we took him to visit a little girl who he really clicked with. Also, be aware that this is not a fairy-tale scenario of benevolent giving and grateful receiving. It will be tough for everyone, especially the kids.
We have gotten so involved with Christopher and Maxieel that I don't know if we will adopt. We feel that when they come see us, we want to give them full attention.
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Baltimore, Md.:
Thanks for the lovely and touching story. What I did not understand was why the charity that brought the children into your lives cared so little about their families. I got the impression that they discouraged contact with parents and had a rule against taking in siblings. My experience has been that the less kids have the more important it is to support and value the family ties. No matter how wonderful the host family homes are, they don't substitute for parents, no matter how troubled. Not fully incorporating the children's families into the experience is almost asking for the kids to think less about their families, their communities, and themselves.
Mary Gaitskill: I AGREE 100%. I was really shocked when the chairperson seemed to think I was some kind of weirdo for wanting to meet the parent(s). I think that the major reason it finally worked out with Christopher was that he saw his mother meet us and approve of us--and that we consult with her about what he can and can't do. Because the host families live far away, they wouldn't always be able to make the effort required to meet the parent--but I think they should at least have the chance. It has to make the child feel safer, and its respectful to the parent too--just asking them to give their child to strangers is not, and I believe the kids know that. That was a big part of the problem with Isaiah, I think. There was no connect between us and his mom, and I think he felt that to bond with us would be a betrayal of his mom--and bless his loyal heart, he would never do that. I was really mad at him often, but I respected him for that, and thought he never should've been put in that position.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
What a great story, Mary. I find you exceptionally brave for sticking with a charity who would be so daft as to presume that children do not understand trust and would then take Christopher away in the manner they did the first time. I hope this policy was limited to the caseworker and not the charity as a whole.
What will you be doing this summer as a bus chaperone, and how will you take your experience with Christopher as a model for yourself and to share with other chaperones?
I am very glad you sent Christopher his life jacket! A very symbolic gesture, I think. The best to all of you.
Mary Gaitskill: Thanks very much. I'm actually not sure what bus chaparones do as I've not done it yet. Probably just keep the kids orderly and entertained. I imagine that I'll just talk to the others about the experience and listen to what they have to say. Possibly I'll wind up getting more involved in this organization--if I do, I'd like to talk to somebody about changing their policy so one, kids aren't sent away from home so young, two, the host families have an opportunity to meet the parents and kids beforehand.
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A working mom in Silver Spring, Md.:
Read and enjoyed the article yesterday. Kudoes to the author and her husband for trying to make a difference in the lives of these children. Bigger kudoes for fighting the system and demonstrating commitment to try to stay in the lives of the children. My criticism, however, goes to the charity in charge of the program. Regardless of their home situations, 6 and 7 year old children are rarely ready to be away from their home turf for two weeks. I would think this would be especially true where the home turf is unstable. It is a very grown up, middle class assumption that two weeks in the country would be a welcomed relief. From the vantage point of a 6 year old, being dumped off with two strangers, possibly of another race and culture, in a strange place, may just be one more terrifying thing over which he lacks control. I also think that the preparation the host family received from the charity was inadequate. The whole set-up was unfair to the children and the author and her husband. Hopefully, though, it will all turn out well for all concerned. The children will experience a caring, disciplined environment and the adults will learn about their capacity to love. Thanks for sharing. Good luck with any adoption plans.
Mary Gaitskill: I agree with you that 6 and 7 is too young to be away from home with total strangers. That seems so commonsensical to me now that I'm embarrassed at being so ignorant not to have known before. In a paragraph that was cut for space I said something like "Forget about race and class for a minute. Imagine that you are 6 years old, and that your mother has taken you to a bus terminal where i.d. cards are draped around your neck, you are put on a bus and driven for three hours, then let out in the middle of nowhere. Your name is shouted off a list and you are herded towards two nervously smiling strangers. Now put race and class on top of that. Would you be smiling? If you were, would you mean it?
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Albuquerque, NM:
How long ago was the initial visit and how often do you see the children now? Does the Spanish speaking pastor still see the children? Have you continued in contact with the mother?
Mary Gaitskill: The initial visit was a little under two weeiks. Since then we've had them up for three more visits. We've also seen them in the city a couple of times--we went out to their school to be chaparones for a school trip that got cancelled, took them to the movies, went to their baptism (we were going to be godparents, but we're not Catholic so their church said no--we got to go through the ceremony with them though). We also talk to them on the phone almost every week, partly because I help Maxieel with her homework and Peter reads with Chris. The pastor hasn't seen them again, but he's acted as a translator over the phone. We have regular contact with their mom too, though that's hard as we have to do a three-way conference call with a translator.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Your story was beautiful and wrenching. I was so shocked by the behavior of the charity representative when she came to take Christopher away, yelling at him that he was making her late. And I, too, found it highly objectionable that they send 6-year-olds to live with total strangers for a week or two. Have you shared your concerns with the charity, or have they taken steps to fix the specific and general problems?
Mary Gaitskill: I was shocked too, and felt terrible about my importence in the situation. I would like to talk with them about it, and am thinking that maybe sending them this article and following up with a phone call might be the way to go.
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Washington, DC:
Hi Mary,
Your essay seemed keenly aware of class difference, but not so conscious of racial difference in interactions with the low-income children, is there a reason for this notable omission?
Mary Gaitskill: I don't think it was omitted entirely. I think a black couple would've known right away what to do when Isaiah said that he was dumb because he was black and we obviously failed him in that regard. Also, it seems obvious that part of Isaiah's difficulty with us was that we are white--I don't think he would've been saying to a black woman that her hands were dirty--that came up directly in connection with my whiteness. I've already said this, but I'll say it again: Isaiah already knew at seven that we were the enemy--yet he'd also been told that he should be loving and good to us, and that it was great to be with us. It was an impossible situation for him, and I thought I made that clear. Though I don't think it was entirely a racial thing--I don't think that particular child would've been all that happy staying with affluent black people either--and while most host families are white, there are some black families too.
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Washington, D.C.:
Mary,
How old are you and your husband?
(can I ask?)
Are you still considering children?
Mary Gaitskill: I am 49 and my husband is 51. We are still thinking of adopting, but are leaning towards no, partly because of our age. Though if we did, it would be an older child, 5-7, not an infant.
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Washington, D.C.: I have mixed feelings about your story.
I was a moving one no doubt, but I
wonder how common your experience
was. Have you ever investigated to check
the "success rate" of these types of
programs? Are they more beneficial than
the camps that are sometimes provided?
Being black, I am not sure I want want my
child to have that experience seeing white
people have more than they have and not
being able to live like that themselves.
Mary Gaitskill: I have mixed feelings too, in the way you're talking about. I have learned, from talking to other people that our experience is more common than not. We did try to find out what the success rate is, because all you ever hear about this charity is warm and fuzzy--nobody even talks about how hard it is, for everybody. We looked on the internet literally for hours and could not find anything negative--and I don't believe that's because there isn't anything negative there. (When I was trying to publish this article, I was amazed at how reluctant people were to print what actually happened. The first place I wrote it for did an edit that deleted most of the awful stuff.) We did think of your concern--how good is it for a black kid, no matter how kindly he is treated to get the message that all this affluence and niceness is white? I have so much to say on the subject, I don't think I can do it justice here. On one side of the scale, while we live in a mostly white place, there are black families and mixed families here and Isaiah definitely registered them. Also, the one alumni of the charity that we know is a friend of Peter's and she said she got the message that she could have this some day. That's really what tipped the scale for us when we were trying to decide. But then there's the other side. Maxieel once asked me, "why is it that white people are better at making a good life for themselves than black people, and Hispanic people?" I was glad she asked, and did my best to talk about racial prejudice, and class, and also pointed out that black and Hispanic people live where we live--and that any color person with money is going to find it easier to act nicer in general. I'm sure she listened, but words are not as strong as what people see, and the fact is when she comes to visit us, she sees mostly white people. There's more on the other side too, more than I can write here. So I'm torn. The camps you mention might be a better way to go for a lot of people. But then I can't get away from the fact that we love having these children in our lives, and they wouldn't be in our lives if not for this organization
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Washington, D.C.: Was there any kind of orientation for this program? For the kids or adults? When I was a teenager, my family hosted an exchange student (it happens our area was rural and she was from a big city), where the placement didn't work out for a variety of reasons. Expectations were part of the issue, I'm sure. There was a large sense of failure that went with that, just being on the host side. I have no idea what it is like on the other side, and find it hard to imagine sending kids from inner-city urban life to a rural life without more preperation for all involved.
Mary Gaitskill: No, there wasn't an orientation. I agree, there should've been. Part of the problem is that outside the city its an all-volunteer operation, and the volunteers are usually people who have families and who work, plus they're dealing with families who work, so everybody is pinched for time. Also part of the problem is this charity was, long ago, concieved on a very small scale. Now its a bureaucracy, and that always leads to a certain loss of human sensitivity
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Albuquerque, NM:
Thanks for the answers. What I meant in my original question was how long ago (last summer 2003, or 2002 or when) was the initial visit? I also agree with some of the other writers that a meeting with parents and other neutral people would be a big help to the kids. We have a mentoring program here in Albuquerque and first the mentors and the child and the counselor meet for about 10 minutes. Then it is once a week at the elementary school for 45 minutes, then it gradually gets longer and in other places once after children and families feel comfortable.
Mary Gaitskill: The first visit was in 2002.
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Arlington, Va.:
Mary -- wonderful story. Thank you for sharing in such an honest way. Do you know if programs such as this would be available to a single woman without a spouse or partner? Would you even recommend trying it with just one person? Also, I commend you for continuing being a part of those kids' lives.
Mary Gaitskill: If the program I was writing about does let single women act as hosts, and apparently some times it works out really well. I don't know if I'm in a position to recommend it or not, I don't know enough about it. I think a lot would depend on how experienced you are with children, and if you have a family with experienced parents to call on
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Alexandria, Va.:
Hi Mary - I really enjoyed your story and first hand approach. I have been tutoring/mentoring for over 5 years and have had the same brother and sisters for over 3. I am very involved with their home life and we often do the "fun stuff" to take our relationship beyond the library/tutor role. The one thing I have always been hesitant to do is to bring them to my home, eventhough they have repeatedly asked. They come from a low income household that is at some points quite a dire situation, while I live in a nice home with food in the fridge. Was your quality of living ever an issue for Christopher or his sister? If so, how did you handle it?
Mary Gaitskill: Well, of course it is an issue, though in our case not garishly so--we don't own our house, we rent and its a small place. Isaiah was frankly disappointed in our care, which at the time was a used 92 Taurus. I don't get the sense that the kids are over-awed by what we have. It's definitely more than they have though, and I guess I can't know the impact of that long-term. It's a really complicated subject and its one reason I agonized about trying to build a relationship with Christopher--and the debate about that was much more intense than I was able to put in the article. I guess I finally felt that they already know they're deprived in a big way. I feel like at least this way they get to have some good experiences in the country and at the movies (we take them out in the city sometimes too) that they wouldn't otherwise have. And hopefully they might come to see a pathway for them that can include both their world and ours. But in your case, if your gut feeling is that you shouldn't bring them home, you should listen to that. Especially as you wouldn't be bringing them in to spend the night, eat with you, ride bikes, etc. It would just be a quick peek.
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Mary Gaitskill: I'm signing off now, and want to thank everybody for the questions. I just feel frustrated that I couldn't answer some of the more thoughtful ones more thoroughly. Because of space there were so many issues that I could only touch on in the piece--subjects I wish there was more dialouge on just generally. Anyway, thanks to everyone again.
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