The pressure is on for kids to perform and excel in school and on the playing fields. Packed academic schedules cram their days. Afternoons are a constant merry-go-round of sports and extracurricular activities and homework rules their nights. And it all begins in kindergarten. Though this non-stop lifestyle might eventually land them in a top-tier college, but at what expense?
Wouldn't you love to help your kids find a happy and healthy balance?
Evelyn Vuko
(washingtonpost.com)
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Join Evelyn Vuko and Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D., president of Southern Vermont College in Bennington, online Tuesday, Oct. 26, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss the pitfalls and ramifications of over-scheduling kids with academics and extra curricular activities.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Evelyn Vuko: Over-scheduling kids is becoming more common today. Many factors are pushing parents and teachers; such as, the pressure of standardized testing and the multitudes of kids competing for the comparatively small number of spots at coveted colleges. Barbara Sirvis, a former special education teacher, now a college president, joins me today to help you find a balance between academic demands and the social and emotional needs of your developing child.
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Washington, D.C.:
Hello,
We (my 13-year and 10-year old daughters and me as their chauffeur) have fully scheduled days. I recognize my own stress points and can tell when I am overextended, but what red flags are sure indicators that my girls are over-scheduled? On some days, they thrive on the stimulating schedule, yet on other days the same schedule is a marathon. Thanks, Taxi Mom
Evelyn Vuko: Good for you that you can recognize when you are over-extended, most people don't have a clue in the zoo when it happens and just plow on through until they crack! What are your typical signs? Do you get cranky, head-achy, light-headed, confused? When that happens to you, share it with your girls. Enumerate the number of things you did that day and say it must mean that you've hit your limit. Tell the girls you will be monitoring them for similar symptoms and that they must look for them in themselves. Agree that you will stop and take a refresher break from whatever you're doing when you see those symptoms in each other.
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: I totally concur with Evelyn. Your daughters are old enough to understand and learn from their mother's ability to articulate her own stresses. It also sounds like they could do well to ease up on some activities and begin to learn about things they can do at home, alone, or with each other that are equally enjoyable. Overstimulation can become just that and can lead to more difficulties with fatigue, concentration, etc.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
My mother had a rule: No more than two extracurricular activities. Period. We have stuck with this: Our 9th-grade son plays lacrosse in a games-only league once a week, and he takes private music lessons.
Our kid is an A student. He performs well on standardized tests. He gets adequate sleep every night. He has various hobbies including photography, cartooning, and reading. He built a computer last month. Some evenings, he and his dad even play a board game! On Fridays he often goes ice-skating with friends he has known since kindergarten. He performs assorted volunteer work at intervals throughout the year: Creek cleanups, book drives, etc.; and enrolls in a variety of short courses or camps in the summer, as well as taking the annual wilderness canoe camping trip with relatives. He is a well-rounded boy. Now, having said all that: Is he likely to find himself--this healthy, active, intelligent young man--"under-credentialed" for college, because he is not enrolled in umpty-ump organizations?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Great question! In my opinion, you have set the right parameters for a good balance between academics and co-curricular activities. When it comes time for college applications, that should show in his application. As he moves into the upper grades of high school, you may want to suggest that he could choose an extra activity. Balance as a lifelong skill requires that young people also learn the concept of choice.
Different colleges look for different things in their applicants. Good grades are the first expectation, then most likely test scores. A balanced life should be a good sign that he has the potential for success in college.
Evelyn Vuko: I agree with Barbara, especially about encouraging your son to chose what activities he will pursue. In that decision-making process, be sure to discuss together his energy limitations. Is he a kid who needs more sleep than most and is refreshed by taking a quick nap or by lounging for a bit on the sofa? Will whatever activity he's chosing allow him time for his pause that refreshes? The more he's cognizant as a young man of power and individual ways he has of conserving his energy, the more successfully he will be able to maintain when he's a busy college student.
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Washington, D.C.:
I am a teacher, and I think there is way too much pressure on kids to perform in some ways, and not enough pressure in other arenas. I would love to know how to change adults' expectations of kids from those which concern academic and athletic achievement to those which concern social responsibility, respect for others and personal accountability. I think that there is so much pressure on kids to perform academically and extra-curricularly that we as adults often tend to go easy on them when it really matters that we be harder on them-- to stick with it when disciplining, to follow through on stated expectations, to make them think about consequences of their actions, to discuss citizenship and what it means to be a good person rather than just a highly accomplished one. How might these achievements become better recognized so that adults will start seeing them as more important than scoring a goal or having enough activities on the resume?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Teaching parents is an important role for classroom teachers, though often a most challenging one. By modeling expectations for students, and helping parents to understand why it is important, they may begin to see the value. For me, the concepts of balance and choice are the most important. With that comes also a recognition that today's young people will be tomorrow's citizen leaders, be that in PTO, neighborhood organizations, etc. Social responsiblity can be taught/learned through academic activities that include a community service component. Some of those activities can also include parents, so they engage and contribute side-by-side with their children.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
My daughter is in full day kindergarten. She has homework every night. It usually takes no more than a half and hour for her to complete it. She also has projects on the weekends. She doesn't seem to have a problem with now, but by starting so early with it will she later become burnt out on homework in later grades?
Also, my daughter often immitates her teachers at home by screaming at her little brother telling him to "sit down," "be quiet," or "time out." She says that's what her teachers do all day. The teachers say they raise their voices sometimes to control other kids in the class. I realize that at times a teacher will have to raise their voices sometimes, but how can you tell when it is too much?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Learning about choice and organizing time starts earlier and earlier. Today's children in kindergarten are expected to be involved in more academic activities than others of us may have experienced in the past. Thirty minutes is a nice balance, and, hopefully, weekend projects should have an element of "fun" that becomes enjoyable. This also can shape an attitude that learning is fun.
With regard to the mimicked behavior, there may be some concern there. On the other hand, children often exaggerate what they see in adults. I might ask the principal if this has been a concern expressed by other parents and/or if s/he could watch your child's interactions with the teacher to determine if there is some conflict there.
Evelyn Vuko: Last week I substituted in a public kindergarten. We didn't have time to finish a cut-out assignment, so I told the kids who didn't finish it that they could do it for homework and bring it in for their teacher to see tomorrow. Apparently, their teacher never assigns homework, or never calls it that, because their eyeballs all got huge when I mentioned it. In questioning them, I learned that they were flattered by my request because all their older siblings get homework and now they did, too! This all goes to show you that you can never predict what a kid thinks about something. Why don't you interview your daughter for her opinion and her feelings about her nightly homework?
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Philadelphia, Pa.:
My fourth grade daughter has a full-scale IQ of 115. She is in a very competitive school that makes academic demands that are leaving her frustrated, inattentive and making her act out in school and when she's doing her homework. Does her IQ have anything to do with it? I know it's only considered high average, but how can I help her?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: I suggest that you look at the academic demands but also consider that there may be other factors that are causing her to act out. A conference with the teacher to discuss the dynamics of the classroom might help. I would look beyond IQ but also consider whether the school environment is the right one--if it is too competitive and there may be a better choice.
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Burlington, Vt.:
How important are extra-curricular activities to developing well-rounded children and how do parents make choices between things like soccer and ballet which offer specific skills, and things like Girl Scouts that are more general?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Well-rounded, balance, choice--these are all important concepts that can only be learned through doing. Children should be encouraged to have preferences. However, sometimes the pressure of specific-skill activities can create more frustration than joy for kids. "General" activities like Girl Scouting that provide opportunities for developing social responsibility, social interaction, and life skills provide an excellent balance to academic demands of school. At the same time, they provide a chance for the less-skilled and/or shy child to grow.
Evelyn Vuko: I think extra-curricular activities, especially those that develop muscle strength and coordination are excellent for growing kids. I think, no matter their age, all kids need to run and exercise on a regular basis. I also think, and you've probably done this, that you should expose your child to a variety of experiences outside school--crafts fairs, plays, martial arts exhibitions, art demonstrations, etc. Then gauge his/her reaction to each event to see whether it is a likely candidate for continued involvement.
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Washington, D.C.:
My daughter is in 4th grade and has homework that keeps her up as late as 11:00 at night. How is a 9 year old expected to manage this much homework?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Personally, I would be concerned about a 4th grader who has that much homework. At the same time, I wonder if she is using her time wisely. Does she have the study skills to be successful and/or is she distracted by other activities, television, etc.? It sounds like time for a teacher conference to me to determine "both sides of the story."
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Personally, I would be concerned about a 4th grader who has that much homework. At the same time, I wonder if she is using her time wisely. Does she have the study skills to be successful and/or is she distracted by other activities, television, etc.? It sounds like time for a teacher conference to me to determine "both sides of the story."
Evelyn Vuko: Before you make a teacher conference, get yourself some facts and figures. I think you should pull up a chair and sit beside your daughter when she does her homework and believe me, I don't recommend that parents do this very often, I am all for kids working 95% of the time on their own. Now where was I? Oh, yes, have her explain an assignment to you, then ask her to begin working. Using a stop-watch, time how long it takes her to do five math problems, for example. Then watch and note what she halts over...is it the eight times table that is slowing her down? Encourage her along through the assignment and record how long it took her to do it. Do this for all her assignment for one night only! Now, schedule a teacher conference and take your notes with you. The teacher will know, given your daughther's skills, how long it should take her to complete each assignment. Strategize together how, together, you will make your daughter work more efficiently at her homework. Good luck!
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Washington, D.C.:
I had extra curricular activities growing up in 70s & early 80s but also caught my lessons. I think I turned out ok. I was one who enjoyed school & still today like the learning process. I never cut class in high school even though so many of my friends did. Everyone seemed to, there being a large well known mall a couple of city blocks away. But we're becoming the laughing stock of other nations(English speaking especially). When I get on one of my Yahoo chat rooms people from all over the world are in there talking. People from UK, Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc and of course the U.S. ...And more and more I see abysmal writing & spelling from people here in America. It's embarrassing to see so many of us Americans who can't punctuate or structure sentences grammatically. Can we really say too much extracurricular activity or teachers not getting paid enough is the fault of this trend?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: Everyone looks for someone to blame. For many years, parents received the brunt. In reality, however, it is a much larger social issue. At the college level, we often find students who do not write well--some cannot use punctuation appropriately!! It is past time for the proverbial someone to stand back and look at the issue. NCLB is not the be-all answer nor is blaming parents. There needs to be a collaborative effort. The First Day Foundation presents a concept that more schools should consider. That brings parents to school on the first day with their kids. Unfortunately, the internet does not require good spelling, grammar, sentence structure, etc. PTO groups can encourage parental involvement, and after-school programs that teach social responsibility and academic success help. That goes back to an earlier question about skill-specific programs, e.g., soccer or ballet, vs. more "general" programs like Scouting. Somewhere there is a balance. For the moment, we need to be strong voices wherever people will listen.
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Fairfax, VA:
Re: Philadelphia daughter . . . Fourth grade is a time when kids must go beyond "learning to read" to "reading to learn." Are her reading skills less than they need to be to keep up with her curriculum in science, social studies, etc? I'd see what her teacher or the school reading resource teacher thinks about this.
Evelyn Vuko: Hello, Fairfax! I'll pass along your excellent suggestion and add that if there is a lag in reading, especially at this stage where intensive; study reading is occuring for the first time, that the parent should not hesitate to bring on a tutor.
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Annapolis, Md.:
My eigth grade daughter plays the violin and swims on a competitive swim team (3 nights a week). She has asked us to transfer to an IB program for high school at a nearby, public school, instead of the one she would attend. Her high school offers honors and AP classes and is a very good school absed on SAT and other scores. The school counselor told her the IB diploma will help when she applies for college. She is taking geometry this year and French I and had algebra last year (7th grade). She is a A- student -- mostly A's, couple B's , and even two C's last year. Our concern, in addition to not fully understanding the IB program (it is new in this area), is if this is just too much.. She is working hard to demonstrate to us that she can handle more, but we don't want to set her up to fail or hate high school. In your opinion, if she continues her music and sports, and takes honors or AP classes, would will colleges notice her well-rounded or is an IB diploma needed? Thanks
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: International Baccalaureate programs are high pressure and very selective, both from the school's perspective and the child's. IB is not essential for college entrance. Music and swimming suggest a well-rounded non-academic life, and her grades are more than adequate. Most IB programs assume that students will seek the most prestigious colleges that will likely continue the pressure. Unless she is totally academic in her focus or has her heart set on a specific, very selective school, she is probably fine where she is. On the other hand, you also want to listen to her wishes. Is there an option to attend a summer school program at the IB school and let her see if it "feels" right?
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Annapolis Md.:
What is going on here? When I went to college, long long ago in the early 1980s, they wanted to see grades and SATs. They could not have cared less how many clubs I was in or teams I was on. Does everyone think their life is over if their kids don't go to Yale or has college changed that much? BTW, out here in the work world you either have a degree or you don't. No one seems to care too much what it was in or where it came from (diploma mills excepted).
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: "The times they are a'changin'" is unfortunately true in the 21st century. All colleges look for some evidence that students have a life outside the classroom. For some colleges, that extra-curricular life means the difference in accept or deny. While that is not true for the majority, we do find those parents who push their children to do whatever it takes to be accepted into the "name schools." As college degrees become more the expectation in some parts of the "work world," or at least the higher-paying segments where graduates want to work, there is a perception that the "name" does make a difference. For my vote, it is far more what the student learned in college and if they learned critical thinking, problem solving, appropriate oral and written language, etc. Parents, whether or not college graduates, want something "better" for their children. What "better" means is different for each family.
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Gaithersburg, Md.:
I was at brunch the other morning and overheard a Pearl and Cashmere mother tell her relatives that her son "wants to go to Maryland, but he won't get in if he doesn't keep his grades up"! Said son was 9 years old at the most!!! GIVE THE KID A BREAK!!!
Evelyn Vuko: A Pearl and Cashmere Mother! Unfortunately, you were ringside for precisely the kind of pressure that can have deleterious ramifications on kids. If I were there, I would have spoken up, but I can't help myself, I have been known to do this in supermarkets and dry cleaners. I would have asked her what kinds of activities he is involved in OUTSIDE school. Is he a soccer player, does he play the piano? Even if she refused to answer, that kind of question, without being head-crackingly obvious, would likely have put her to pondering. Next time, speak up! You could help a kid.
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: I,too, have difficulty being quiet in a situation like that! If there is a gentle way to approach the mom, I would encourage you to do so. The challenge is to be polite and respectful because she wants only the best for her son. This is the reverse of the answer to some of the previous questions. This is, indeed, the time to remind the mom that if she wants her son to get into a "good" college, he needs to have other extra-curricular activities. This is a boy who needs soccer or music or YMCA or some other outlet that enhances his non-academic social and emotional development. Otherwise, he will become so frustrated that he will give up on the academics too. So, next time that happens, stand tall and speak directly and respectfully mom to mom.
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Gaithersburg, MD :
As a mother of a third grader and a fifth grader, I am constantly conflicted over the amount of homework that must be completed versus the lack of play time. I feel I must hold my children accountable for completing their assignments on time but it is at the expense of going for a walk, catching frogs, or just playing kickball with friends. Where and how do I draw the line so that my kids are not stressed out and learn all those other important skills that only playing with friends will teach? This is such a common complaint among other parents, yet the school system still expects so much out of even our kindergartners. Please give me some perspective.
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: You are asking the toughest question, and there is no single answer. How I wish there were! Unfortunately, I have to go back to the concepts of balance and choice. For some students, they study better if they first go for that walk, play with friends, participate in an organized after-school activity. Then, the stress of sitting in school all day is released, and they feel some joy of daily living. Rather than coming home from school and going right to the books, maybe they need to play first. For others, it's better if they finish their homework and then play. Try some different options with your kids, and make sure they have that important time for themselves. Engage them in figuring out the best way to create that balance.
Evelyn Vuko: This goes back to an earlier answer, but I think you need to monitor how your kids do their homework, because lots of kids waste incredible amounts of time preparing to do homework, finding the right supplies, getting distracted, shopping online rather than researching, instanting messaging with friends, you know the routine. What you need to determine is how much productive time they are actually spending on their homework. Hover around, as inconspicuously as possible and time how long it takes them to actually get down to work and the amount of time each distraction took. Present this to your kids and together, devise methods that will eliminate wasted time and monitor it until they do it naturally. You will all be amazed at the amount of time that will be left for catching frogs.
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Monterey, Calif.:
It is the zeitgeist of our time that there is a lot of discussion about how our children are "over-extended" as you describe it, and then a lot of discussion about drugs to treat their hyperactivity, their genes. their "attention deficit"....all of which deftly avoid the source of the problem: parents tragically unable to connect genuinely with, nurture, support or stand up for their children because of their own childhood wounds.
What we do instead -- and specifically to avoid this emotional pain and lack of genuine intimacy and connection in our lives is all the busy-busy-busy stuff -- among endless other addictions available in our junkie culture.
We really have to change everything, don't you agree? For starters, maybe we should think seriously about requiring parents to obtain a license first. Well okay, since that won't happen -- where do you think we should start?
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: The "zeitgeist of our time" is the very essence of this online conversation. There are no easy answers. Science and research will continue to look for the answers in DNA or ADD or some other acronym. In reality, our society is creating some of the demands that then pressure children. Two working-parent families give kids lots of time to determine their own agenda. If there is a way to help them make good choices and/or to structure that time for them until they are old enough to make good choices, that can help. Malls and television are major distractions and provide numerous opportunities for negative role models. At the same time, they can be useful tools for social development and learning. If I could choose one thing, I would ask parents to spend quality, not quantity, time with their kids. That includes 1:1 time where there can be genuine discussions of the events that affect kid's lives AND where parents can also share an appropriate amount of their own stressors. There also is a need for quality family time where everyone gathers together and shares some joy and lets go of whatever might be making them "cranky" at a given moment. These are not easy challenges, but they are worth the effort and could be a good start.
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Queens, N.Y.:
I remember being a kid. I left school, went to the library and spent hours just reading and doing my homework. I went home, ate dinner, and went to bed. I had a few activities here and there, but mostly during the summer. The one sport I participated in was swimming and that was it. Otherwise, I was free to ride my bike, play with dolls, or just watch some TV. I am only 30, by the way, so this was only 20 years ago, but it seems so cruel how these kids are kept so busy and they are just as stressed as adults...Do parents ask kids if they want to do this stuff??
Evelyn Vuko: Hello, Queens! Thank you for asking what I think is the most critical question in this chat, "do parents ask their kids if they want to do this stuff?" I think kids have the right to be involved, and to chose, in the selection of any repetitive activities that eat up numberous days each week. The more stake they have in choice, the more they invest in the outcome.
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: It's all about choice and balance. Somehow parents get into a mindset that their kids need to do everything. Some kids don't want to do everything. Some want lots of organized activities, and others want time just to play with their friends. Involve them in the conversation early, remembering that first you need to expose them to the options. You don't want them to say, "No" just because they don't know how or it is something new.
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Annandale, Va.:
My son and daughter (ages 7 and 8) have some planned activity every afternoon after school (tennis, yoga, drama, music, soccer practice), plus soccer and religious school on weekends and Brownies or Cub Scouts a couple of times a month. While we'd like to encourage each kid to develop his or her own interests, we have only one parent free to supervise in the afternoons, so we tend to sign up both kids for everything, thinking that's better than having one sit on the sidelines while the other participates. Does this sound like too much? We keep almost all evenings free, and their homework load is minimal.
Always enjoy the chat!;
Barbara P. Sirvis, Ph.D.: What a great opportunity for an important life lesson! We do not always get everything we want when we want it. This is a good time for them to learn simple negotiation. They can learn that there is only one parent available, so take turns. One can be a spectator sometimes while the other is a participant and vice versa. There also may be the occasion where there are two activities nearby. Then, too, this may be just the time for them to begin to learn that they can do some things alone--like reading or drawing or just watching--while the other sibling has the choice. The roles should reverse with equality. At their ages, those role reversals need to be relatively close together because they may not be ready to hold off for two or three weeks to have their turn. Take advantage of this chance for them to learn these important skills.
Evelyn Vuko: I think Barbara's answer is excellent and have nothing to add except I'm delighted to hear you always enjoy these chats. You just made my day.
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Evelyn Vuko: Thanks for sharing your experiences and your opinions here today. I think the main lesson you should take away from this chat is that kids of all ages, even preschoolers, should be involved in considering, chosing and planning how activities will impact their time and their energy. Conversations about energy levels, gifts and talents and time commitments prior to making choices forces kids to reflect and take the time to make wise moves. Thanks to Barbara Sirvis, for her excellent responses. Join me again on November 9th to talk about helping teachers and parents use technology to help kids.
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