Join host Evelyn Vuko to talk abou preparing your kids for the SAT; the next testing dates are Dec. 4, 2004 and Jan. 22, 2005. Vuko's guestis Jim Montoya, vice president of regions and higher education services at the College Board, creators of the SAT. They will share study tips and answer questions about the new version of the SAT debuting March, 2005. The new SAT will feature advanced math, a critical reading section and a writing component—25 minutes to write an essay on a given topic.
Wouldn't you love to give your kids the testing edge?
Evelyn Vuko
(washingtonpost.com)
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Join Vuko and Montoya online Tuesday, Nov. 23, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss helping your child study for the SAT.
Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.
Montoya is former Chief Student Affairs Officer at Stanford University with long experience in the field of college admission.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Evelyn Vuko: Tests are never easy, whether it's a poke in the arm by a needle-toting nurse or a pop quiz on spelling words. But the SAT's are in a class by themselves; here, the grade received is not an end product but the first step on the path to college. Joining me today is Jim Montoya of the College Board, the creators of the SAT. Let's get started...
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Durham, N.C.:
My son has to take the SAT this year.
He resists studying for it. How can I
persuade him that studying will give him
an advantage?
Jim Montoya: Often students feel more willing to prepare for the test if they understand that the skills being tested are necessary for college success, and not just random test questions.
Evelyn Vuko: Remind him that the SAT is a test, too, despite the broad range of material covered. Would he chose not to study for an English test or one in Algebra II? Discuss together what areas he's not 100% sure of...can he comprehend dense materials? Is he able to look at a lengthy paragraph and make editorial changes so that it reads more smoothly? Can he recognize mistakes in grammar? How are his math reasoning skills, computational skills? Assess his skill on some of the elements of SAT and work together on those areas that need beefing up. Sometimes just a few points will give him the leg up he needs for a better score.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
It was suggested that my son take the SAT at least twice. Is this true?
Thank you.
Jim Montoya: About half the students who take the SAT take it more than once. Of those who take it a second time, most scores go up, but modestly. Only one in twenty five students see a score gain of more than one hundred points. Students who are familiar with the kind of questions asked on the test seem to have a better overall experience. Taking the test a second time is one way to become familiar with the test, but a less expensive way to do this if for your son to take a practice test. A full length practice test is available on our website at no cost.
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Alexandria, Va.:
How can the essay portion of the new SAT be scored objectively and on a consistent basis? How will they be able to evaluate all the tests on a timely basis?
Jim Montoya: The CB has invested extraordinary resources in developing a scoring program that will be thorough and fair. The SAT subject test in Writing has had an essay scored by readers for years, thus the process is not new to us. Approximately 10,000 teachers of writing have applied to be evaluators. They will go through extensive training before they ever score a student's actual essay. A supervisor monitors the scoring in real time to further insure quality control. There are two readers. If two readers' scores differ by more than one point, a scoring leader will score the essay.
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Naples, Fla.:
My daughter will graduate from high school in 2006? Should she take both the existing and new SAT?
Jim Montoya: The College Board recommends that juniors wait until spring of their junior year to take the SAT. By then, they will have covered as much English and math course work as possible. If a member of the class of 2006 were to submit scores from the current SAT, many colleges and universities would accept the scores, but other colleges would not. Members of the class of 2006 who choose to take the current test should be sure to check the requirements of each school to which they apply.
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Houston, Tex,:
I have terrible handwriting, but I do pretty well in my English classes. How is the essay scored -- and will I get points off for my handwriting?
Jim Montoya: Readers are trained to overlook bad handwriting. It is only in extreme cases where several readers find the essay unreadable that it will not be scored. This almost never happens. Readers are trained to concentrate on the writer's clarity of thought, sentence structure and flow. Each essay will be scored independently by two readers on a 1 to 6 scale. The scoring guide they will use is on our website in the new SAT section.
Evelyn Vuko: Though I might be accused of flogging the obvious once again...why don't you practice your handwriting before you take the SAT? Instead of typing an email or an assignment, write it out in long hand. Then give it to your mother or a friend to review and advise you about which words were problematic. Then practice those words or letter combinations until they become more legible. It's a simple solution that will ease your worries. Good luck!
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Detroit, Mich.:
I heard that the new test will be harder. Is this true?
Jim Montoya: The new SAT will not be harder than the current test. A field trial of 45,000 students was carried out to verify that this would be the case. Students took both the new and the current test, and we compared their scores. Scores on the two tests are interchangeable, much as scores on the current test taken in October are interchangeable with scores on a slightly different form of the test given in November. And we pre-test all test questions to judge their difficulty, and then build test forms to specifications, including difficulty level.
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New York, N.Y.:
I don't have a lot of extra money to spend on tutoring for my son. Is he at a disadvantage? What is the best way to prepare for the new SAT?
Evelyn Vuko: There are some wonderful websites available free for studying for the SAT. Nose around together and find one that appeals. Or invite a group of his friends over and host a study party and invite several of his most trusted friends...the College Board publishes an excellent text, including a CD version called "10 Real SAT's." It costs $19.95 (probably cheaper if you buy it online) and four friends could split the cost. This text includes not only practice tests but helpful strategies for dealing with all the different testing sections. They discuss the strategies, take the tests, then critique each other's performance.
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Philadelphia, Pa.:
Can you please explain why the writing section is required and not optional?
Jim Montoya: Good writing is critical to college success. To make the writing section optional would detract from its importance. Colleges and universities have for some time expressed concern about the writing skills of high school graduates. Similar concerns have been voiced in the secondary education community and among business leaders. A 2003 report from the National Commission on Writing for America's Families, Schools, and Colleges—-a blue-ribbon group made up of university leaders, public school superintendents, and teachers, assisted by an advisory panel of writing experts—-revealed that the amount of time and money devoted to student writing must be drastically increased in every curriculum and at all grade levels. (For information on the Commission, visit www.writingcommission.org.)
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Vienna, Va.:
Hi. My daughter is currently a freshman. She did badly on her SSAT. How soon and how often should she take the SAT? Should she get into one of these coaching institutes? DO you have a listing for Northern VA? Thanks for taking my question.
Evelyn Vuko: I think the SSAT is great preparation for the SAT so she should pay close attention to her weak areas in that test and focus on them when she's studying for the SAT. Check the websites of major tutoring organizations like Sylvan Learning Center or Kaplan's for locations in the Northern VA area. Then call her school. Many provide SAT study booklets or can provide recommendations for a private tutor if you decide she'd prefer to work one-to-one.
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Washington, D.C.:
Are both essay readers human, or is one a computer?
Jim Montoya: As mentioned before, both the readers are experienced writing teachers -- and definitely human!
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Mechanicsville, Md.:
My daughter is an exceptional student she is 13 and a junior at small high school that is local to her mom's. She was homeschooled for a while and is catching up on history, as she is adapting to acceleration. She did extremely well on her PSATs. Questions:
Should homeschoolers, or those with a substantial homeschooling past take a different approach for test preparation?
Since the test is changing substantially in March, is there any benefit to either taking the test early (if you're good at standardized tests) or waiting until March (if you have particularly strong writing skills, for example)?
Thank you.
Jim Montoya: The good news is, if your daughter did "extremely well" on the PSAT, then she is likely to get good scores on the SAT as well. The two tests are very similar -- the main difference being the essay on the SAT. Students should write as much as possible, and read widely, to be prepared for the test -- but those are skills that students need to be prepared for school, as well. Also know that the more rigorous the courses your daughter takes, the more likely she is to do well on the SAT. Go to our web site to see the free materials we offer for preparing for the new SAT, including a full-length sample test.
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New York, N.Y.:
Who will score the essays?
Jim Montoya: Readers for the new SAT essay will be experienced high school teachers and college faculty members with at least three years of classroom experience who primarily teach English, composition or language arts courses. More than half of all current applicants teach at the college level and nearly 80 percent have master or doctorate degrees. Readers will be required to complete a rigorous online training course that will familiarize them with the principles of holistic scoring and teach them to evaluate the new essays according to the agreed-upon standards.
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Lancaster, Pa.:
How does the College Board respond to criticism that economically disadvantaged students don't have the same access as more affluent students to all the prep and test taking strategy classes for the SAT? I know of two extremely competitive, academically rigorous schools, Bates College and Bowdoin College in Maine, that haven't required SAT or SATII tests for quite a few years. In the case of Bates where I have more knowledge, there has not been any difference in the academic performance of the non - SAT submitters and the SAT submitters.
Jim Montoya: Economically disadvantaged students can receive a fee waiver for the SAT from their high school. Eligible students can actually receive two of these, so that they can test twice if they wish. Last year, more than 215,000 students had their SAT test fees paid this way. The College Board takes very seriously its commitment to equity and access. As for test preparation, free and low cost materials are always available from the College Board, both in print and online. (The vast majority of selective colleges continue to require the SAT because the test, in combination with high school grades, provides important information for making choices among students.)
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Washington, D.C.:
How can a writing test be scored objectively?
Evelyn Vuko: To help you understand how a writing test can be scored objectively, let me tell you how a writing test called the Written Language Assessment is scored. There are four scoring sections and only one depends on the opinion of the reader and in that, the reader is asked to look at literary style, grammar, usage, spelling, punctuation and content and make an evaluation from 0-4 (superb). The other three sections of the test are: productivity, in which the actual number of words is counted; word complexity, in which the actual number of syllables is counted; and finally a readability score is gauged by comparing syllables, sentences and words against a grade-level chart. It's tedious stuff to score, but my high school students' make great strides when we analyze their work so specifically.
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Berwyn, Pa.:
My son is a junior in HS and he just took the PSAT. It was a disaster, he said. He really has trouble comprehending when he reads and he can't figure out what's wrong with a paragraph and make corrections--two things he had to do on the PSAT. How can I help him so he doesn't do so badly on the SAT?
Jim Montoya: He needs to be comfortable taking the terst. The more familiar he is with the SAT, and the various question types, the more comfortable he will be. There are plenty of practice tests available, including a free full-length test on our website, and eight full-length tests in our book, The Official Study Guide for the New SAT, available in most bookstores. A really low-key way to practice is to come to our website and take the SAT Question of the Day. There's a new one every day, and it will take him very little time. You might even enjoy that part!
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Fairfax, Va.:
I did poorly on the SAT, but still got into college and have done quite well in life. My daughter takes the SAT in a couple years. I want her to put effort into it, but how can I express my resolve that it's really not important in the grand scheme of life, but something you should put some effort into? I find that all of my peers feel this way to. Since so many Americans view the SAT as a total waste of time and money, why do we even have our kids take it? Is the SAT just a money-making machine for the College Board, tutors and test-prep providers? Every person I know has done very well in life, regardless of how they did on the SAT. It's time to get rid of it.
Jim Montoya: I have served as a dean of admission at three insititution--Occidental, Vassar and Stanford. At all three insitutions, SATs have been one of many factors considered in the admission process, but NOT the only factor. However, the skills measured on the SAT are those identified by college professors as being critical to academic success. The combination of high school grades and SAT scores continue to be the best predictor of academic success in the freshman year.
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Washington, D.C.:
I recall taking an ACT for Community College. Then transferring to UM. Never an SAT. Is it possible for students not to take the SAT and still get into college?
Evelyn Vuko: Apparently it is. According to Jay Mathews in his "Class Struggle" column in the Washington Post's Education Review (11/7/04), the ACT is "a competing college entrance test that is take by almost as many students [as the SAT] and is accepted by as many colleges as the SAT." Mathews adds, "The ACT advantage is that, unlike the SAT, it lets you send just the ACT results you like."
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Silver Spring, Md.:
My daughter is a junior and has, so far, taken only the PSAT. Although she takes honor and AP classes and does quite well, she didn't score well on the PSAT (one of which was the new version with the writing segment). She completed Algebra II and is now taking statistics. She's not much of a reader. What do you suggest? Practice SATS from a book? A SAT prep class offered by her high school?
Jim Montoya: The fact is that reading is an important part of most college coursework. I would do all that you can to encourage her to read, and read widely. She will be at a clear disadvantage once she get to college if she is not an avid reader.
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Greenbelt, Md.:
As a practicing engineer, I would say I often rely in my work on my ability to visualize and rotate objects in 3D space. It allows me to develop an advance intuition to problems before solutions can be formulated analytically. I think many other professionals rely on this skill, eg. surgeons, pilots, architects, mathematicians, physicists, chemists etc... Why isn't there a test for this type of ability in the newly redesigned SAT? Math and english skills only get you so far when facing the unknown.
Jim Montoya: The admission process often includes opportunities for students to demonstrate those skills not measured by the SAT. Many colleges will allow students to submit descriptions of projects or research papers they have written. We will continue to work closely with colleges and universities as we explore future changes to the SAT.
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Evelyn Vuko: Thanks for joining us today and a special thanks to Jim Montoya for his comprehensive and reassuring answers. Join me again on December 7th to chat about making changes and providing efficient solutions in your home or your classroom for kids with learning differences like autism. Wishing everyone a happy, safe and delicious Thanksgiving.
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