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Election 2004: Stem Cell Research

Janet M. LaRue
Concerned Women for America Chief Council
Monday, October 25, 2004; 4:00 PM

With less than 10 days to go before Election Day, the presidential race is still too close to call. Both sides are feverishly courting undecided voters, rallying their base and aggressively pushing their candidate.

The debate over stem cell research has figured prominently over the campaign and seen as a sleeper issue by many Democrats.

Peggy Noonan talks with Vice President Dick Cheney (top). Donna Brazile teaching a course at the University of Maryland. (The Washington Post)


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Janet M. LaRue, chief counsel for Concerned Women for America, discussed her opposition to embryonic stem cell research.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Bethesda, Md.: Why do you believe stem cell research has become such an issue this election?

Janet M. LaRue: People care deeply about their health and that of their loved ones. Most all of us want to live long and healthy lives. Even politicians get that. :)

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Virginia: I am one of those "oddball" Americans who is pro-life and who finds IVF to be morally suspect. I'm not a religious nut (I'm agnostic) and I'm not oldfashioned (I'm 23). But the idea of creating a human life (a sperm fertilizing an egg) only to destroy it seems to be morally questionable at best and murder at worst.

I am sympathetic to the cause of those who suffer terrible illnesses. My grandmother died of Alzeihmers and my older brother passed away from a brain tumor last year. But I still feel sorrow for those lives that are created and destroyed in the name of science. How can we ever answer the question of when does life start, or does that question not matter in the pursuit of science? If the latter is true, where do we draw the line between embryo and fetus?

Janet M. LaRue: That's one of the defining questions that should be considered. When life begins isn't a matter of religious political, or judicial philosophy. Life begins at conception. It's a fact of biology.

When fertilization initially takes place, whether within a fallopian tube (in vivo) or in a petri dish (in vitro) it forms a single-cell embryo called a zygote. The zygote divides progressively into a multicell embryo. After about five days, the embryo contains many cells with a cystic cavity within its center and is called a "blastocyst." If this blastocyst implants into the uterus and continues to develop, it becomes a fetus. But this is also the stage at which the individual cells become viable for use in ESC experimentation. "Blastocyst" is not to be confused with "blastocyte," which is simply another term for an embryonic stem cell (ESC).

President Clinton's National Bioethics Advisory Commission, in its 1997 report Cloning
Human Beings, explicitly stated:
"The Commission began its discussions fully recognizing that any effort in humans to
transfer a somatic cell nucleus into an enucleated egg involves the creation of an embryo,
with the apparent potential to be implanted in utero and developed to term."
2
The President's Council on Bioethics defines: "Cloned human embryo: (a) A human embryo resulting from the nuclear transfer process (as contrasted with a human embryo arising from the union of egg and sperm). (b) The immediate (and developing) product of the initial act of cloning, accomplished by successful SCNT, whether used subsequently in attempts to produce children or in biomedical research." (emphasis added), Human Cloning and Human Dignity: An Ethical Inquiry Executive Summary 2002.


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Lakewood, Wash.: How many people have had any illness or injury cured or alleviated by stem cell technology? How many have received any stem cells in the attempt to cure? What specific data confirms that stem cell application has any benefit to humans?

Janet M. LaRue: I can answer part of your question. I don't know the # of people who've been treated by stem-cells. I've heard that there have been hundreds of thousands because adult stem cell treatment (ASC) goes back to 1971. Bone marrow transplants are an ASC.

Following are successful treatments from adult stem cells (ASCs) listed online at: http://www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/treatments.htm
1. Brain Cancer
2. Retinoblastoma
3. Ovarian Cancer
4. Merkel Cell Cancer
5. Testicular Cancer
6. Lymphoma
7. Acute Lymphobolastic Leukemia
8. Acute Myelogenous Leukemia
9. Chronic Myelogenous Leukemia
10. Juvenile Myelomonocytic Leukemia
11. Angioimmunoblastic Lymphadenopathy with Dysproteinemia
12. Multiple Myeloma
13. Myelodysplasia
14. Breast Cancer
15. Neuroblastoma
16. Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma
17. Hodgkin's Lymphoma
18. Renal Cell Carcinoma
19. Various Solid Tumors
20. Soft Tissue Sarcoma
21. Scleromyxedema
22. Multiple Sclerosis
23. Crohn's Disease
24. Rheumatoid Arthritis
25. Juvenile Arthritis
26. Systemic Lupus
27. Polychondritis
28. Systemic Vasculitis
29. Sjogren's Syndrome
30. Behcet's Disease
31. Myasthenia
32. Red Cell Aplasia
33. Autoimmune Cytopenia
34. X-Linked Lymphoproliferative Syndrome
35. X-Linked Hyperimmunoglobuline-M Syndrome
36. Severe Combined Immunodeficiency Syndrome-X1
37. Sickle Cell Anemia
38. Sideroblastic Anemia
39. Waldenstrom's Macroglobulinemia
40. Aplastic Anemia
41. Amegakaryocytic Thrombocytopenia

For an extensive list with documentation, see: http://www.lifeissues.org/cloningstemcell/adultstemsuccess.htm
Rep. Dave Weldon, of Florida said the following on the floor of the House regarding successes from ASC treatment:

"Mr. Speaker, the following diseases have been successfully treated with adult stem cells from humans: Parkinson's disease, blindness has been treated, relief of symptom of lupus, multiple sclerosis, and rheumatoid arthritis; the cure of combined immunodeficiency diseases, the treatment of several different types of leukemia, solid tumors, neuroblastomas, non-Hodgkin's lymphomas, multiple sclerosis. Indeed, the list goes on and on.


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Harrisburg, Pa.: Why not allow diminishing so much suffering and allowing the lives of so many people to be improved, and future lives saved, by allowing research that will allow this all to happen?

Janet M. LaRue: I support adult stem cell research (ASC) because it has been proven effective. Contrary to popular belief there is no ban on stem cell research.

In accordance with the "Dickey Amendment," passed each year since 1995, research involving the destruction of human embryos cannot be funded with taxpayer dollars. This is not Bush's policy; it is the law of the land, passed annually by Congress and signed by both Presidents Clinton and Bush. This law does not ban embryo research, and it does not fund embryo research. It is a policy of public silence.

In 2000, the Clinton administration discovered a loophole that would allow the NIH to provide some federal funding for embryonic-stem-cell research without asking Congress to overturn the Dickey amendment. By law, the government could not fund research "in which" embryos were destroyed. But if the destruction itself were funded privately, the government could offer funds for subsequent research on embryonic-stem-cell lines derived from the destroyed embryos. In other words: A researcher could destroy endless numbers of embryos in his private lab, and then use the fruits of such destruction to get public funding. This would not violate the letter of the law, but surely the spirit.

When he took office in 2001, President Bush put implementation of the Clinton guidelines on hold. He wanted a way to support potentially promising research, but he also did not believe the federal government should create an ongoing incentive for the destruction of human embryos. On August 9, 2001, President Bush announced his new guidelines: federal funding for research using stem-cell lines that existed before the announcement, but not for those created after. In this way, federal money would not act as an incentive for destroying human embryos in the future, but stem cells derived from embryos already destroyed in the past could be used with federal money to explore the basic science.


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San Antonio, Tex.: I--along with my sister and nephew--carry the genetic code for a rare, late-onset, dominant-gene genetic disorder, from my father's side of the family.

Herb and Marion Sandler, who are the CEOs of the company for which my husband works--World Savings and Loan, based in Oakland, Calif.--have recently contributed $1 million for the passage of Prop. 71 in California. With the recent death of Christopher Reeve, we have lost one of the bravest spokespersons for supporting and promoting the important work of embryonic stem cell research. Given the opposition in some quarters to embryonic stem cell research, what avenues do you suggest for carrying on this important cause, this important fight?

Janet M. LaRue: While I understand and share the hope you hold for finding a cure for your disorder, I believe that money donated in support of Prop. 71 in Calif. could be better spent to fund ASC research. All that we have with regard to ESC are promises with nothing scientifically to show for it. Not one human treatment or cure.

ESC research results in the destruction of human life. When we value one life over another in the name of medicine, we have opened the door of vulnerability for the disabled and aged to be euthanized. Scare federal resources should go to fund research that has already produced documented effective treatments from ASC treatments instead of funding ESC research that has not. It is unethical to play on the emotions of people and give them false hope for cures. If ESC research were truly promising, private foundations and pharmaceutical companies would be funding it. Instead, private investors have avoided funding ESC research because they don't want to wait years for results that very well may not materialize and because of the ethical objections of the vast majority of Americans to such research.

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Alexandria, Va.: Why do you think John Kerry is pushing ESCR (which hasn't yielded any cures) so hard while ignoring all the cures we've already found from adult stem cells? And why doesn't President Bush make his case for adult stem cells stronger?

Janet M. LaRue: In my personal opinion, Sen. Kerry is exploiting vulnerable people with dibilitating medical problems for the sake of an election. His positions have been inconsistent. In the second debate he said he only supported using existing embryos in IVF clinics "that will be destroyed anyway."

Kerry has endorsed so-called 'therapeutic cloning' for years. ["While I am opposed to reproductive cloning, I believe that the process of somatic cell nuclear transplant (SCNT), commonly referred to as therapeutic cloning, should be protected." Kerry letter of Sept. 3, 2002.] On July 13, 2004, Kerry cosponsored a bill (S. 303) to allow the mass creation of human embryos by cloning solely for research, as long as they are not allowed to continue developing past 14 days. This bill has nothing whatever to do with so-called "excess" embryos created and stored in vitro fertilization (IVF) clinics.

Kerry's sponsorship of this bill was specifically referenced by a staffer on the national Kerry campaign, quoted in a news story that appeared in the August 10 Wall Street Journal: "Kerry policy director Sarah Bianchi says the Kerry bill prohibits cloned embryos from developing for more than 14 days or from being implanted in a uterus so they could produce live births."

Yet, Bianchi said just the opposite in an August 19 A.P. story. She said Kerry would allow scientists to study leftover embryos that had been created for infertility treatment and would otherwise be discarded. Kerry is "absolutely not" suggesting creating embryos for the sole purpose of research.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: I constantly hear the argument, perpetuated by Laura Bush, that we shouldn't do Stem Cell research because we don't have any proof that it will have any benefits.

That makes no sense to me at all. We don't know for certain that there is a God, yet we go to church and synagogue and pray on a daily basis.

If it wasn't for curiosity, we'd have no medicines at all because there is no proof when you start out researching that you will have posotive results.

Perhaps you could better explain this line of reasoning?

Janet M. LaRue: When Mrs. Bush speaks about funding for research, she is speaking about federal funding.

Scare federal resources should go to fund research that has already produced documented effective treatments from ASC treatments instead of funding ESC research that has not. It is unethical to play on the emotions of people and give them false hope for cures. If ESC research were truly promising, private foundations and pharmaceutical companies would be funding it. Instead, private investors have avoided funding ESC research because they don't want to wait years for results that very well may not materialize and because of the ethical objections of the vast majority of Americans to such research.

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Ottawa, Canada: Assuming that stem cell research takes place in other countries, would you forbid Americans from having access to this treatment?

Janet M. LaRue: No one is forbidden to undergo stem-cell treatment in this country. There is no ban on either ASC OR ESC treatment in the U.S.

No such ban exists on funding exists. In August 2001, President Bush disallowed federal funding of only the kind of stem cell research that would require the killing of human embryos. Last year, the Bush Administration provided over $200 million for stem cell research, of which about $190 million was allotted for research on adult stem cells. Adult stem cell research is the only stem cell research that has yielded any clinical benefits for humans.

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Burke, Va.: I have always been troubled by the question of why it is fine for fertility specialists to create and dispose of thousands of embryos but not OK to use these discarded, and unfertilized, embryos for scientific research. In an earlier chat, Ron Reagan said: "If you make a moral argument against the use of embryonic stem cells, claiming that disrupting these embryos is tantamount to murder, moral consistency requires that you also campaign against in vitro fertilization clinics where thousands of early stage embryos are routinely discarded every year. If you don't take that position you leave yourself open to a charge of hypocrisy and that is what the Bush administration has done to itself." Your response?

Janet M. LaRue: I don't agree with either. Any existing embryos that are no longer wanted by those parents who created them should be made available for adoption rather than destroyed.

There is a misunderstanding about the # of embryos in IVF clinics that are available for creation of ESCs.

See: http://www.stemcellresearch.org/facts/2004-06-11.htm

According to a 2002 survey by the RAND Corporation of IVF clinics in the United States , the vast majority of the 400,000 currently frozen embryos are NOT slated for destruction. The vast majority — 88.2% — are being held for family building.
Only a small fraction — 2.2% --- are slated to be discarded.
An only slight higher percentage -- 2.8% — have been designated for research. That means of the original 400,000 frozen embryos, only 11,000 are actually available to be destroyed for their stem cells.
Only a small number of those 11,000 embryos would actual yield stem cells. Using what it calls "a conservative estimate" the RAND study calculated that only about 275 stem cell lines could actually be developed from the embryos available for research. And even then, the RAND study concedes that this number "is probably an overestimate."
Leading fertility experts also agree that frozen embryos would yield a far smaller number of stem cell lines than is often assumed. Dr. William Gibbons, of the Jones Institute for Reproductive Medicine in Virginia, says the Institute has about 200 frozen embryos available for research, but "there is no guarantee that we would get any stem cells from those 200 frozen embryos… We hear all this stuff about how all these embryos are available, but we just didn't think there was much there." And Dr. Barry Behr of Stanford University notes that "By far, by far, the vast majority of embryos that are frozen are not good. If we thawed 10,000 embryos, we would get 100 or so that are viable blastocysts".
So behind the seemingly impressive number of "400,000 frozen embryos," the reality is that the actual number of stem cell lines likely to be produced from them is so small as to be clinically useless. In order to treat diseases (still a very distant prospect using human embryonic stem cells) hundreds of thousands more embryos, beyond those currently frozen and available for research, would be needed. This could only be achieved by a deliberate effort to create new embryos for the sole purpose of destroying them — an outcome that the use of the frozen embryos is supposed to avoid, but would most likely cause.
And if these 275 potential stem cell lines derived from frozen embryos would therefore be used only in basic research, then the number of human embryonic stem cell lines already available for federal funding under current administration policy (a number sure to increase) is already sufficient for this purpose.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: What do you think will be the ultimate outcome of the battle for federally funded embryonic stem cell research?

Janet M. LaRue: I hope that when the public understands the truth about funding and the success of ASCs as opposed to no successes from ESCs, they will agree that federal funds is wisely spent on ESCs.

A poll taken last August shows that 74% of Americans support federal funding for stem cell research that does not require killing human embryos. 69% of Americans support a total ban on human cloning, including a ban on cloning human embryos for stem cell -research which would kill the embryo.

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Alexandria, Va.: What is your distinction between "embryo" and "fetus?"

Janet M. LaRue: When fertilization initially takes place, whether within a fallopian tube (in vivo) or in a petri dish (in vitro) it forms a single-cell embryo called a zygote. The zygote divides progressively into a multicell embryo. After about five days, the embryo contains many cells with a cystic cavity within its center and is called a "blastocyst." If this blastocyst implants into the uterus and continues to develop, it becomes a fetus. But this is also the stage at which the individual cells become viable for use in ESC experimentation. "Blastocyst" is not to be confused with "blastocyte," which is simply another term for an embryonic stem cell (ESC).

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Washington, D.C.: Does your organization oppose the process of in vitro fertilization? As long as we have IVF, we'll have leftover embryos. I think it is better to use these leftover embryos rather than discard them as medical waste.

Janet M. LaRue: Concerned Women for America doesn't take a position on IVF. We do believe that human life should not be created to be destroyed, even for noble purposses. Those embryos that are no longer wanted by those who created them should be placed for adoption rather than destruction.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: Who contributes to your organization? Any loose breakdown on your
contributers? How old is it? Any organizations that your group is aligned with? Thanks

Janet M. LaRue: Concerned Women for America just celebrated its 25th anniversary. Our contributors are people who share our values on the subjects of the sanctity of life, religious liberty, the family, the harms of pornography, national security, etc.

CWA is not officially aligned with any other organization other than our ow Legislative Action Committee or PAC, which are separate organizations. We do work closely with other pro-family organizations.

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Upper Marlboro, Md.: I just want to thank you for coming on with another viewpoint and some facts.

Janet M. LaRue: It's my pleasure to participate and I hope to shed more light than heat.:)

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Alexandria, Va.: Ms. LaRue,

Do you also oppose invitro fertilization on the grounds that if the IVF is successful the remaining embryos may be destroyed?

Janet M. LaRue: As I mentioned in another answer, CWA has no position on IVF. We do believe that human embroys should not be created to be destroyed. Those embryos that are no longer wanted by those who created them should be made available for adoption.

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Janet M. LaRue: The promise of embryonic-stem-cell research is very real but wholly speculative. No human therapies of any kind have yet been developed or tested, and none are on the horizon. And the notion that embryonic stem cells will cure "cancer" and "heart disease," broad categories of disease that encompass a complex array of particular ailments, is unsupported by even informed conjectures.

There are many problems associated with ESCs, such as a tendency to cause malignant tumors, and the body rejects them just as it rejects donated organs.

Yet it was always believed that ESCs had one huge advantage over their ASC counterparts -- that while an ASC could become or "differentiate" into only a few types of mature tissue with those tissues dictated by the source of that ASC, the ESCs could become any type of tissue in the entire body. In medical terminology this is known as "plasticity." But this has never been more than theory, and lately that theory has begun crumbling under the weight of empirical findings.

There's a huge ESC industry seeking research funds. Private investors avoid them because they don't want to wait many years for results that very well may not materialize and because of the ethical concerns. That leaves essentially only Uncle Sam's piggy bank, primarily grants from the National Institutes of Health, to keep these labs open. This, in brief, explains the "stem-cells wars," the perceived overwhelming need grossly to exaggerate petri-dish advances with ESCs, while life-saving new applications of ASCs are downplayed or ignored.

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Janet M. LaRue: In response to a question earlier today, Ron Reagan said:

"John Kerry to my knowledge has said no such thing. He realizes that embryonic stem cell research offers a potential cure for many diseases but nobody including Mr. Kerry is offering any guarantees."

Ron is wrong. Here's what John Edwards told a rally in Iowa earlier this month:

"If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again."

That's political pandering at its worst.

Here are some facts about spinal cord injuries and ASC treatment:
Two American women who suffered spinal cord injuries that left them confined to wheelchairs testified before Congress after receiving ASC treatment in Portugal. They said they were told by American doctors that they would never get out of their wheelchairs again. After receiving treatment derived from their own stem cells derived from the olfactory mucosa that lines the naval cavity, they can both stand and walk with the assistance of braces. Both Dr. Geoffrey Raisman of Britain's National Institute for Medical Research and Dr. Steve Hinderer of the Rehabilitation Institute of Michigan have studied Dr. Lima's techniques and are hoping to begin human trials based on them in Britain and the U.S.

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Silver Spring, Md: Since excess IVF embryos are not adopted as you suggest they should, why doesn't your organization oppose the way IVF is currently conducted with the same vehemence you oppose embryonic stem cell research? Sounds inconsistent.

Janet M. LaRue: That may happen if IVFs become more of a public policy and law issue.

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Janet M. LaRue: Thanks so much for your questions and to the Post for allowing me the opportunity to respond. God bless.

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