Transcript: Democratic Candidates Debate in South Carolina

BROKAW: You said that President Bush said.

SHARPTON: I think that they called themselves supporters of the Bush administration.

BROKAW: Not the president himself?

SHARPTON: Not the president himself.

BROKAW: We're now one-for-one here.

SHARPTON: But many of their supporters talk about how they represent Christianity. I don't think they represent Christianity any more than some of these murderers, and mass murderers, represent Islam. So let's not blame the religion. Let's blame those that use religion to do some ruthless, deadly, wicked acts.

Now, having said that...

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Having said that, I think we should build relationships with those nations around the world, and I have visited them. And how do you build relationships? Work with them on things of self-interest. Many of them need clean water supplies, clean sanitation, trade. They would become our partners if we engaged in partnership. But I don't that the way we do that is attacking people's religion, trying to act like our religion is better.

And as far as Mr. Bush saying that he doesn't need a permission slip from the U.N., he doesn't think he needs votes from the American people to be president.

BROKAW: Senator Edwards, do you think they would get enough help from our so-called Arab allies in this fight that is going on between those members of the Islamic movement who believe that we're unworthy and heathens in this country, and what the Bush administration is trying to do to close that schism that exists in too many areas?

EDWARDS: I think the answer is no, we don't get enough help in a lot of areas.

For example, the Saudi royals, who we're so dependent on Saudi Arabia for our oil, and we've not moved this country in the direction we need to go toward energy independence, which is desperately needed; cleaner, alternative sources of energy, more fuel-efficient vehicles, because we're so dependent on them for oil, the fact we don't get the cooperation we need from them.

And there's a complete disconnect between the leadership, not only in Saudi Arabia, but in a number of these Islamic countries and their people and their attitudes toward America.

Can I just go back a moment ago -- to a question you asked just a moment ago? You asked, I believe, Senator Kerry earlier whether there's an exaggeration of the threat of the war on terrorism.

It's just hard for me to see how you can say there's an exaggeration when thousands of people lost their lives on September the 11th.

I think the problem here is the administration is not doing the things, number one, that need to be done to keep this country safe, both here and abroad.

And number two, the president actually has to be able to do two things at once. This president thinks his presidency is only about the war on terrorism, only about national security. Those things are critical for a commander in chief. The president of the United States has to actually be able to walk and chew chewing gum at the same time, has to be able to do two things at the same time.

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BROKAW: Before we end this segment, Governor Dean, let me ask you, there is an attempt now on the part of Republicans, as well as Democrats, to modify the Patriot Act. There's something called SAFE that a lot of Republicans have signed on to.

Today, the attorney general warned that it would prohibit, or at least restrict his ability to wiretap terrorist suspects. And he said, if it's passed, this president will veto it.

DEAN: You know, I think in some ways, unfortunately, the terrorists have already won. We have an act that allows American citizens to be held without knowing what they're charged with and without seeing a lawyer. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened since 1798, with the Alien and Sedition Acts.

We can't do that, Tom. We can't -- I think none of us mind being searched and have our shaving kits rummaged through in the airlines and all that. But if we start giving up our fundamental liberties as Americans because terrorists attacked us, then we have a big problem.

I honestly don't believe that John Ashcroft and George Bush and the members of the Federalist Society view the Constitution the way mainstream American attorneys or the way most American citizens do.

We have a right to protection of our liberties. A lot of people died for that in the Revolutionary War. And I am not going to let the right wing of the Republican Party take those liberties away from us.

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BROKAW: When we come back in just a moment, we're going to talk about the issue here in the state of South Carolina, the loss of jobs in the last three years and what happens to the future of this economy.

All that and more when we come back from Greenville here on MSNBC in a moment.

BROKAW: We're back in Greenville, South Carolina, with the seven Democratic candidates for the presidential nomination of their party.

And in this state, there is no bigger issue than the issue of jobs. South Carolina's lost more jobs than at any time since the Great Depression -- 28,000 in the textile industry alone in the past three years or so.

Governor Dean, wherever I go, you ask people, "Why did that happen?" they'll say, "NAFTA, it's all about NAFTA." They're moving offshore because these foreign countries and foreign companies have a much better deal.

You were endorsed by former Vice President Al Gore. No one played a larger role in getting NAFTA passed and pushed through than the man who endorsed you, Vice President Gore.

DEAN: That may be true. Let me tell you what we should do about jobs.

We ought to change NAFTA. We've only done half the job with globalization. You've globalized the rights of big corporations to do business anywhere in the country, but what we now need to do is globalize the rights of workers, labor unions, environmentalists and human rights.

If you do that, you raise the standard of living in other countries. And what happens is our jobs stop going away because the cost of production goes up.

It also reduces illegal immigration, because now you don't have to come to the United States to make a living, you can make one in your country. People don't leave their countries because they hate their country; they leave their countries because they can't make a living. And now we can do that.

You've got to put the emphasis on fair trade, not free trade. And what the problem has been that when the Clinton administration and the Bush administration continued to push this, only half the job was done. We forgot about the workers.

If you want jobs in this country, here's what you do. First, you've got to balance the budget. Not one Republican president has balanced the budget in 34 years in this country. You cannot trust the right wing with your money.

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Secondly, you've got to invest in small businesses. Small businesses and self-employed people create 70 percent of all the new jobs in America. That's where our investments should be going, not tax credits to corporations who move their headquarters to Bermuda and their jobs to China.

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BROKAW: Senator Lieberman, NAFTA has become the bogeyman of this campaign, especially among Democrats. It was passed by your party.

LIEBERMAN: That's right.

BROKAW: Was it a mistake?

LIEBERMAN: It was not a mistake. Very important to say that all of us up here, and all Democrats, rightfully brag about the Clinton economic record. Twenty-two million new jobs created in the eight years. Trade was a key part of that, and NAFTA, though it's cost some jobs, has actually netted out 900,000 new jobs that were created by NAFTA.

Now, the jobs that are leaving South Carolina, very few of them are going to Mexico and Canada. They're going to Asia. And there the Bush administration hasn't had the guts to stand up to China, and other countries there, who are ripping off patents and copyrights of ours, who are fixing their currency in a way that gives them a price advantage and causes jobs here to be bled out of the country.

But, you know, I have said that I would give the same answer everywhere. It's not right to make a scapegoat of trade. We have to fight for fairer trade. We have to support manufacturing.

But let me say this, Tom, if some of my friends up here carried out their protectionist policies and we got in a trade war, you can't create jobs by building a wall around America.

In South Carolina, the state department of commerce tells me that 160,000 jobs are dependent on exports.

So we got to figure out how to keep the jobs who are here, stop the bleeding and work together with business and workers to create a whole new generation of jobs. I've got a plan to create 10 million in four years.

BROKAW: Congressman Kucinich, I know you have some strong feelings about NAFTA, but let me just preface your remarks with this observation.

This material that's coming in now from foreign countries -- it's a tragedy to lose the jobs here in South Carolina, but if you go to Illinois or California or the Great Plains and people go to Walmart or Costco or any of the other big, big stores these days, they kind of like those prices. They've gotten used to the idea of not paying as much for shoes or shirts or clothing or any other number of items because they are manufactured offshore.

KUCINICH: Well, that presumes that people of this country do not have a social consciousness. I believe they do. That's why we've lost hundreds of textile plants in this country. That's why our steel, automotive, aerospace, shipping and textile industries are in such severe trouble.

What I intend to do as president of the United States is to challenge this global trading structure where corporations are actually controlling nations with their trade rules.

That's why I've said my first act in office will be to cancel NAFTA and the WTO...

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... and return to bilateral trade, which will be conditioned on workers' rights, human rights and environmental quality principles.

Tom, with all respect to Governor Dean, you can't just say you're going to fix these trade agreements, because they're written so as not to be fixed. They could have been fixed in 1993 when NAFTA was passed, and in '94 when the WTO went into effect.

We are losing our manufacturing base. Some of these trade laws, you can't even buy America the way they're set up.

And so, you know, my position: Buy America or bye-bye America.

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