Chatological Humor*

Gene Weingarten (Richard Thompson - The Washington Post)

*Formerly known as "Funny? You Should Ask."

Gene Weingarten's controversial humor column, Below the Beltway, appears every Sunday in the Washington Post Magazine. He aspires to someday become a National Treasure, but is currently more of a National Gag Novelty Item, like rubber dog poo.

He was online, at any rate, each Tuesday, to take your questions and abuse.

He'll chat about anything.

Weingarten is the author of "The Hypochondriac's Guide to Life. And Death" and co-author of "I'm with Stupid," with feminist scholar Gina Barreca.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Gene Weingarten: Good afternoon.

Today, a milestone in interactive technology. In the 23rd century, Internet historians will blame this moment for having destroyed the American economy; this will be the tipping point, after which workplace inefficiency will reach fatal levels due to online time-wasting.

We are going to be conducting a real-time poll of readers to determine, scientifically, how good your senses of humor are. Liz will link to the poll below.

I have selected five comics from the last week, and labeled them A through E. They are all at least pretty good. You look at them, and then answer three multiple-choice questions about them. Try to do this during the first 30 minutes of the chat.

By the end of the chat, Liz will tally and post the percentage breakdowns for each answer. I will then reveal the correct answers. By comparing your choices with mine (my pronouncements about humor have papal infallibility; they are scientifically unchallengeable) you will discover - if you dare to find out - the quality of your sense of humor.

Hint: Do not try to figure out which ones EYE think are the best; you might be surprised. Judge it entirely on your own.

On a related matter, I spoke last week with the managing editor of the Washington Post, to express my frustrations with the poor quality of the comics pages across America. I spoke passionately for a long time. I educated him about cartoon history; I explained the pressures -- economic and otherwise -- that are contributing to this lamentable mediocrity; I regretfully revealed the shabby complicity of newspaper editors in perpetuating this situation. I wept for my species.

Well, not quite. But he did let me fulminate for a long time, remaining silent until I got to the part about how there are LOTS of great, creative strips we could be running. At this point, the managing editor made the following statement: "Show me." By my calculations -- estimating salary, time elapsed, etc. -- he earned $391.45 per word.

So I have to show him. Being the most knowledgeable person on the planet about comics, I already have a number of worthy strips in mind. But I can use help. If you are a fan of a strip we do not run, let me know - not here, at my Post email address, which is weingarten(at)washpost.com. Cartoonists may nominate themselves. I'll look at everything.

It was a good comic week. The POW is yesterday's Zits, the runner-up is Sunday's Boondocks.

And lastly, a question directed only to women: Is there any woman out there - any woman at all other than Cathy Guisewite - who is not offended and horrified by Sunday's "Cathy"? Is there no end to this woman's trivialization of the gender? Anyway, if you are unoffended, speak up and explain.

Okay, let's go.

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washingtonpost.com: Comic Pick of the Week:
Zits, (March 22)
Runner Up: Boondocks, (March 21)
Cathy, (March 21)

Vote in today's poll. One vote per chatter.

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Falls Church, Va.: I wanted to congratulate you on your wonderful piece on gay marriage in the Sunday Post. It was simply brillant. I think it shows the shallowness of the arguments of those who oppose gay marriage. I believe that it is time for all those who are strongly opposed to gay marriage and gay rights in general to be honest and say what they are about: they believe that no one should be gay and therefore the thing to do is to make gay people's lives as miserable as possible so they will stop, and anything that makes their lives easier will encourage currently straight people to become gay. I truly despair for our country when I see that a major political movement in this country is taking policy position on the basis of how unhappy they can make other people.

For the record I am a happily married heterosexual man who is confident enough in my own life choices to know that having more loving relationships recognized as marriage makes the institution stronger not weaker.

Thanks for these chats, they are almost always the most interesting chat of the week. Besides I love the poop jokes.

washingtonpost.com: Aisle Be Damned, (Post Magazine, March 21)

Gene Weingarten: Well, that's one viewpoint. Others follow. This column got more mail than any column I have ever writ.

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Arlington, Va.: Well, you were just full of screedy goodness this week, weren't you? You've written in the past about how zealotry can be the enemy of humor, and I think you fell off the wagon this past Sunday. I'd love to hear that there was some subtlety to the column that I missed, some "Weingarten Code" that when detected spells out "B-O-B L-E-V-E-Y I-S N-O-W W-O-R-K-I-N-G A-S A R-O-D-E-O C-L-O-W-N," but if it was there, I missed it. Instead, the column just reads like a strident political rant, and if I wanted something like that, I'd read Richard Leiby.

Gene Weingarten: And this one, and the one that follows:

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Alexandria, Va.: What I'm about to say isn't funny, but I hope you'll post it anyway.

You keep asking why those of us who oppose gay marriage do so. Here is one answer:

The secular marriage laws were written and exist to promote the raising of children. It is in the government's interest have children raised in the best environment possible. As a result tax incentives, guardian responsibilities, etc., etc., etc. developed all to promote the healthy raising of the next generation.

I firmly believe that everything being equal, children are best raised by a mother and a father. It is the difference between the two genders that provide the best framework. It is a fact that men and women see the world differently... men and women are different. That inherent diversity in a hetrosexual relationship is something that can not be attained in a homosexual one.

Of course there are exceptions, but I feel that marriage between men and women should be promoted by the government above all other relationships for the raising of the next generation. This promotion includes not allowing homosexual couples to achive the same rights.

And as a final comment... M+M or F+F does NOT equal M+F. It just doesn't.

Gene Weingarten: Well, you seem to be making the point that marriage exists only for procreation. I happen to agree with that, a position I took in "I'm With Stupid," to Gina's extreme annoyance. My reasons are very different from yours, though. I don't need or want the government and/or a religious authority to sign off on, or to police, my commitment to love another person. Things change when there is a third party involved, whose rights must be protected.

However, that is not the issue here. The issue here is that the government IS in the marriage-sanctifying business, and given that fact, I believe they should not discriminate over which consenting adults have access to that right. I believe any other position is bigotry. But let's look at your argument here. You contend that male-female marriage is intended to promote the healthiest possible atmosphere for the raising of a kid; fair enough. I suspect, but cannot prove, that you are right. However, look at all the single-parent households in America. Look at all the abusive marriages. I contend both of these are worse environments to raise a child than a loving and lasting gay relationship.

I think the big, unspoken fear across middle America is that gay unions will "create" gay children. No one with any sophisticated understanding of gender and sexuality believes this. At the most, gay parents will provide some solace and positive role modeling for a kid who IS gay, so he doesn't grow up with the sorts of anguish and burdens so many gay kids have faced.

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washingtonpost.com: Vote in today'spoll. One vote per chatter.

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Arlington, Va.: Gene,

You said that Trudeau did very few caricatures in Doonesbury, but what about probably his most famous: Ronald Reagan as Max Headroom?

This is a great snapshot of 1980s culture. And the reason every other president/VP has been a blip (with some defining characteristic -- feather, waffles, cowboy hat...) is that no person since Reagan can compare.

Gene Weingarten: Yeah, Trudeau emailed me after the last chat to make a few points. First, as I suspected, he still draws the whole strip. He has used an "inker" for thirty years, but the entire creative input is his.


Second, he DOES draw caricatures, which accompany his essays in "Time." And are good. He simply has chosen to represent famous people with icons in D'bury.

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Alexandria, Va.: Something that I find amusing is how perfectly intellegent people just lose all control when the name George W. Bush is mentioned...

The past few weeks, the idea that Bush is the worst president has been promoted. That is not true.

The worst presidents in the history of the Republic were the ones that did nothing as events ran out of control. Franklin Pierce (1853-1857), James Buchannan (1857-1861), and Herbert Hoover (1929-1933) are three that come to mind quickly. It can not be said that Bush has let events run out of control.

Quite the contrary, Bush has been in firm control. In the past four years, the country has gone to war, twice; taxes have been cut; terror has been faught; etc. Now, obiviously many people disagree with a lot of these actions and that's fine. But these are the actions of a strong president. A weak one would never have gotten any of this accomplished.

I'm not a historian, and certainly not a future one but judging by how history seems to rank Best vs. Worst presidents, I can not see how Bush will fall into the second catagory.

Gene Weingarten: Ah. Well, Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin were not do-nothing leaders. I am not comparing our president with these guys, just pointing out that nonfeasance is not the only way to get on the pantheon of Worsts. Aggressive malfeasance can get you there, too.

You know, I have a problem with this issue. On one hand, I am no expert on politics and my opinions on this subject are worthless -- more important, I am a humor columnist who relies on the goodwill of his readers, and by expressing opinions robustly, I risk alienating good people who disagree with me. On the other hand, Liz has informed me that when this issue was raised last week, questions to the chat soared. So I am met with an interesting conflict: Self-serving refusal to deal with this subject, versus self-serving demagoguery. I like to take my cue from my hero, George W. Bush, who never misses an opportunity for demagoguery.

Okay, worst president in history? Comical observations only.

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Warrenton, Va.: Today's "Zits" is pretty good, too. It explains how come my wife has 3/4 of the closet.

washingtonpost.com: Zits, (March 23)

Gene Weingarten: Yep, he is definitely on a roll.

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Reston, Va.: Gene -- I am female and I am not offended by the Cathy comic strip -- it is obtuse.

Gene Weingarten: It is obtuse? How so? It is very obvious, no? We are looking at the one where she has fashioned a bridal gown out of paper?

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Poll: They all suck.

Gene Weingarten: Oh, they definitely do not. None of them sucks. They vary in quality, definitely, but none sucks.

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Dulles Va.: Okay, so I completed the poll and was the 80th person to answer. 80 people answered question #1, 80 answered question #2, and question #3 had... 78 responses. So who do you think the two idiots are here that can't do simple math? Is Beland one of them?

Gene Weingarten: Yes, I blame Beland for most of life's idiocies.

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washingtonpost.com: Vote in today'spoll. One vote per chatter.

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Wedded Blitz: Gene, we really enjoyed your column on Sunday about President Bush, the first openly gay President. So how's the hatemail running?

Gene Weingarten: Several people have asked this. Most of the hundreds of emails have been... supportive. I am shocked. A large percentage of these, for some reason, are from straight women. Gay people liked it. Not many straight males wrote in.

Virtually all the criticism was on religious grounds.

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Washington, D.C.: Gene,

I saw you and Gina at Politics & Prose a week ago, and bought "I'm With Stupid." I'm only about halfway through it now (c'mon, I don't spend THAT much time in the bathroom).

I have to disagree with you on the joke about the three feminine hygiene products. It IS funny in the sense that it's a clever wordplay, but it's NOT funny on any deeper level. It's disingenuous of you to claim that this joke pokes fun at loser guys who use the c-word to describe women. The joke pretty obviously is what it is -- an expression of contempt for women.

Don't believe me? Here's a simple experiment: tell the joke in a bar full of guys. I'll bet you 10 bucks the reaction from most listeners leans less toward "Ha, ha! What an amusingly ribald wordplay, which also subverts the phallocentric paradigm through inviting ridicule toward the joke-teller," and more toward "Ha, HAHHH!!! Yeah! [Expletive-ing] [female dogs]!"

To answer your first question, I am a guy.

Gene Weingarten: I apologize to those who don't know what he is talking about.

You are wrong. That joke is funny because we totally understand what sort of feeb guy would say such a thing. It is true that only guys will laugh. They recognize themselves.

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Vo,TE: This reminds me of a multiple choice pop quiz I took in the 8th grade where all the responses were wrong. The teacher was testing us to see if anyone was brave enough to turn in the quiz with no responses circled.

All the choices are equally awful.

Gene Weingarten: No two things are equally anything. There are gradations. And that is what this test is intended to quantify.

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Worst. President. Ever.: I believe it was Chester Arthur who is believed to have urinated out of the Oval Office window. That's pretty bad. But bad in a good way.

Gene Weingarten: No, Chester Arthur was a very crooked bribetaking pol, prior to being president on the assassination of Garfield. But he was an honest if ineffectual president.

Hell, they ALL urinate out the Oval Office window. That's, um, better than what Clinton did.

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Anonymous: #$%--!; I picked the wrong circle for question two. I submitted my vote before I realized my error. Please include a +/- factor in the results for people like me. Lawyers, that is.

Gene Weingarten: Noted.

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Washington, D.C.: I nominate Thursday's "Bizarro" for pick of the week. I'm 25 and being made fun of and STILL laughed out loud.

washingtonpost.com: Bizarro, (March 18)

Gene Weingarten: I really like this.

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City of Fallen Angels, CA: Love your chat, but you were mistaken about that Vivian Vance thing. According to www.snopes.com:

What fuels the rumors of Ball's supposed demands on Vivian stems from a fictitious contract written by Ball and given to Vivian at a party. In the bogus contract, Ball outlines certain requirements -? that Vivian gain five pounds a week, that she not wear eyelashes, that she not dye her hair within five shades of Ball's, and that Vivian never get more laughs than Lucy. These exaggerated conditions do bear some resemblance to the truth but by bringing these demands out in the open in the guise of a joke, Ball probably thought that everyone would have a hearty laugh and it would all be forgotten. However, the joke backfired. This mock contract took on a life of its own and through the years has become more fact than fiction.

Sorry!

Gene Weingarten: Thanks. Boy, this is a commonly held belief. A few years ago I was hugely disappointed to learn that "Ring Around a Rosy" was NOT about the Black Death.

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washingtonpost.com: Vote in today'spoll. One vote per chatter.

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Arlington, Va.: In last week's chat, you asked if we "MIGHT have a new winner" in the competition for worst president. Look at foreign relations, the budget, environment, civil rights. This assault on the constitution, while regretable, does not make him the worst ever -- that contest was already over. Now he's running up the score.

Gene Weingarten: Okay, then.

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Washington, D.C.: Is it true that Reliable Sorcerer Richard Leiby once wore a bra at your request?

Gene Weingarten: Yes.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Liz, how was your lunch with Gene last week? Where did he take you?

washingtonpost.com: Paradise, baby.

Gene Weingarten: And it turns out Liz is a hottie. But she wore pants.

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Wom, AN: Sunday's Cathy is offensive.

Gene Weingarten: Duh.

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Portland, Ore.: The flaw in Alexandria's argument is this premise: "It is a fact that men and women see the world differently... men and women are different. That inherent diversity in a hetrosexual relationship is something that can not be attained in a homosexual one."

This is only true if all men are the same and all women are the same. I am different from my husband, sure. I am also different from every last one of my female friends, though. If I were raising children with one of them, there absolutely would be diversity in the way we see the world and approach things. And, by the way, my gay friends don't choose people just like them -- like anyone else, they tend to settle down with someone whose personality complements theirs, rather than mirroring it. Also, their children get to meet other adults, including those of the opposite sex -- gay people do stray off the Gay Compound every now and then.

Gene Weingarten: Honestly, and I know I will be offending some people here, when you strip down ALL arguments against gay marriage, they come down to this: Gay people are not as good as straight people.

If you think that, say it. Don't fumfur around trying to sound high-minded.

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Dulles, Va.: Hi Gene -
Per the Cathy strip. Hate to admit it, it's kinda funny -- why? because mothers do that to their daughters, especially older daughters. AND, daughters really want to indulge, but dont want their mothers to know -- hence she's seen determining her style a la memos. I do fear this will only serve to encourage mothers to continue to harrass their daughters - because clearly that's really what Cathy was thinking as well. Sigh. We are what we are...

Gene Weingarten: But, it was Cathy who is fantasizing with the memos.

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Ballston, Va.: "Ring Around a Rosy" was NOT about the Black Death? What, then, IS it about? (Not Whisk Detegent, I hope)

Gene Weingarten: It isn't clear. But it apparently was birthed in the 18th century.

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Arlington, Va.: In order to assist your quest for e-mailed suggestions for comics we like that are NOT carried in the Post, what would you prefer:

A - One e-mail including a list of comics
or
B - One e-mail per comic

I would like as helpful as I can in promoting a comics revolution!

Gene Weingarten: However you want. I'll read em all.

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washingtonpost.com: Vote in today'spoll. One vote per chatter.

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Cville, Va.: After having read your column for a couple of years now, I have to say that Sunday's on gay marriage was by far your best. I'm curious as to how you feel your views are affected by your Jewish faith. Are you liberal on gay marriage because you're Jewish or because of moral feelings outside of Judaism towards the matter?

Gene Weingarten: I was born Jewish and consider myself Jewish and am proud of being Jewish because of all the cultural things that embodies: cynicism, anxiety, neurosis, fatalism, etc. But that's where my Judaism ends. I don't practice it, I married a shiksa, my kids were not raised Jewish, etc. So, basically, I am liberal on gay marriage because it is right to be liberal on gay marriage.

Actually, the reason most journalists are liberal -- conservatives HATE this position -- is that journalists tend to be better informed about public issues than most people.

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Cubeville: Gene,

I am female and I do not find Sunday's Cathy offensive. I have dealt with enough newly engaged friends to say that while the strip does disparage women, it is all too often true and I cannot be offended by the truth.

Gene Weingarten: Good answer. Yikes.

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Takoma Park, Md.: Sunday's "Garfield" was another example of how it is never quite definite that humans can understand animals' thoughts.

At first glance, it does appear that Jon understands Garfield's thoughts in the final frame. However, he could be responding to the thumbs-up rather than the actual word.

washingtonpost.com: Garfield, (March 21)

Gene Weingarten: I am still investigating this issue.

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Arlington, Mass.: How do you get to the online version of your Below the Beltway article? In the past, I always just put the words below and beltway in the search box and searched, and you would be the second response. Now, the search only turns up Chatological Humor. You don't seem to be either a columnist or in the Style section of the online edition -- what's going on? Is The Washington Post ashamed of you or something? Have they intentionally blocked you from their site search because you talk about dogs eating horse manure? If so, how has this chat slipped below their radar?

washingtonpost.com: Before Gene freaks...
-- his column does appear in the Columnists drop-down box on the homepage on the day it runs -- Sundays.
-- He's not included in the Style section because he's not a Style section columnist, but a Magazine columnist.
-- He is, however, in the listings page for Arts & Living columnists, here and on the Post Magazine page, here.
-- Here's a direct link to the Below the Beltway archive for you to bookmark, and...
-- If you lose it, there's a link to his column archive on the top right of each chat, right under the photo.

Gene Weingarten: I'm freaking.

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Ring Around the Beltway: It's about the potato famines. True fact.

Gene Weingarten: what was the rosy, then? and why a pocket full of posies?

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Bowels of the Ear, TH: I think every cubicle in America should have one of these as standard equipment.

Gene Weingarten: I actually know the man who tested these and proved their efficacy. I interviewed him in my first book. He is a gastroenterologist who is the world's leading expert on farts. His wife invented "Mylar pantaloons," which trap the farts so they can be analyzed by a gas spectrometer. In the book I called his wife "The Betsy Ross of Flatulence."

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Harrystru, MN: So I'm reading David McCullough's excellent biography of the only president to be named after your dog. Truman also endured popular speculation that he was a terrible president. Such speculation, proved, of course, to be incorrect.

In Bush's case, I think the question is not whether he will be reviled as a bad president by future historians, but whether he will leave us any future to look back from.

I wish we could bring back Harry.

Gene Weingarten: Hey, Lincoln was not a particularly popular president. Popularity in office doesn't mean squat. You need about 30 years distance, at least.

When Cleveland left office he was considered a horrible failure. Now he is sometimes ranked among the near-greats.

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Conser, VE: "Actually, the reason most journalists are liberal -- conservatives HATE this position -- is that journalists tend to be better informed about public issues than most people."

What we really hate is journalists not admiting they're liberal. (B Levey always denided it.) It is entirely possible that you ar the first liberal journalist to admit that most journalists are liberal. Therefore I must love you (even though you are really uninformed about the issues.)

Gene Weingarten: I like this.

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Baltimore, Md.: If you want to protect the sanctity of marriage, then we should have a constitutional amendment banning divorce.

Gene Weingarten: Or banning adultery. Making adultery a federal offense. How do you think that one would do, in the state legislatures?

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Crabby Charm City (Bawlamer), Md.: Actually, I thought the reason that liberals gravitated towards journalism is that they tend to find enough reward in "changing the world" through journalism, whereas conservatives want "da bling-bling" and make more money through private industry.

Just a thought.

Gene Weingarten: No, it is that journalists talk to a lot of real people, with real problems.

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Ring Around the Rosy?: the much more interesting question is what is the classic girl group song "Sally Go 'round the Roses" about? I've read a theory that it's about teenage lesbians, which would be pretty damn cool for a song from 1962.

washingtonpost.com: I LOVE that song.

Gene Weingarten: I never heard of this.

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Homosexu,AL: Gene said: "...when you strip down ALL arguments against gay marriage, they come down to this: Gay people are not as good as straight people. If you think that, say it. Don't fumfur around trying to sound high-minded."

Gene, I am a lesbian. But this statement of yours has me thinking...will YOU marry me?

Gene Weingarten: Sure, what the hell.

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Arlington, Va.: You said above that "journalists tend to be better informed about public issues than most people."

Really? Did you like Jayson Blair's book, or are you waiting for Jack Kelly's?

Gene Weingarten: I read Jayson Blair's book. I called him for an interview. I am probably the only interview he actually turned down!

I think it was because I told him I was going to be "almost unbelievably vicious and unfair." He took a pass.

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who car, ES: Early question for PTP, overheard on the Web. Maybe you're familiar with the Bon Jovi song (I'm not thank gods) but the question is still there:

We were concerned about Bon Jovi's song where he says "I'll be there for you. These five words I say to you." One person said "Ha leave it to Bon Jovi to screw that one up. It's six words." I however was convinced it was five words.

The whole thing got bigger than it needed to, but the professor didn't have an immediate answer.

After reviewing with some colleagues including one who was an attorney, the general consensus was that it was indeed six words. It's also a contraction, which is pronounced as one word, but if you diagram that sentence, you have to separate the subject and the verb.

Gene Weingarten: This is such a stupid question it intrigues me. I would say a contraction is one word. But I'm not sure. pat, are you out there?

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Tardy polltaker: Arrived late and so have just taken the poll. Is there a reason that C+B was not an option? If this is discussed later in the chat, nevermind.

Gene Weingarten: There is a very good reason that I will explain shortly.

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Washington, D.C.: If all journalists are liberal, what explains FOX News? Are they undercover liberals?

Gene Weingarten: No, they are not journalists.

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Gene Weingarten: Okay, we had a huge response to the poll. Liz will now post the results, which, unfortunately, do not reveal fabulous things about your collective senses of humor. My comments will follow.

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washingtonpost.com: Today's Poll Results

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Gene Weingarten: The key here is that there is clearly a "best" and a "worst." Cartoon C, "Pickles," is the best. It is a very clever inversion, an unexpected punchline, and it is delivered with exactly the sort of veiled, passive-aggressive hostility that defines the gender wars. A top notch cartoon. And I've never seen the gag.

The worst is Cartoon B, "Speed Bump," which is a valid effort but just flat-out doesn't work. It is stretched to the breaking point. It goes on forever, it is telegraphed, and to make it seem to work, he needs to wrench the expression from a "six figure job," to a "six figures" job. Plus, the "six" is arbitrary.

All the others are pretty good. My second favorite one is the Frank and Ernest (D), because Abominable Slushman is just, y'know, funny. Then Close to Home, then The Wizard of Id.

So, you rank great if you chose as the two best C and D.

If you chose B as the funniest, and C as the least funny, and B and E as the two best, well, you should seek a career in agronomy or as an insurance actuary.

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Fairfax, Va.: Enough about Lieby.

What we want to know is have any Washington Post staffers taken off a bra at your request?

Gene Weingarten: Only Broder.

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Pitt is It: Gene,

I love the new illustrations in your columns. I'm amazed that a high schooler can draw with such maturity! Does he come up with all the concepts himself? Or, do you help him with the concept and then have him go draw it. I'm thinking of the horsehead in bed with you in particular. That one (almost?) upstaged your column!

Gene Weingarten: Eric, shouldn't you be at class?

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Misery: The dichotomy of my perception of you never ceases to amaze me. The things that you find funny (which I discover only thru this chat) always strike me as singularly unfunny along the lines of some dweeb who finds amusement that no one else sees and if the rest don't see it, they're idiots.

And yet, I think you use humor better in your columns than any other writer in the entire USofA. Your columns are priceless.

My head hurts.

Gene Weingarten: Now, think about it. Think real hard.

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Gene Weingarten: OOOp, I almost forgot. I have an appointment and have to run out a couple minutes early. Next week you can lambaste me about my choices.

Thanks. Huge numbers of people today.

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Jaynetts link: Gene, you have heard this song - I am sure of it.

Here's a link to a snip of it.

washingtonpost.com: This works, but will launch your Real Player.

Gene Weingarten: Okay.

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