Before integration, black Washingtonians had a color barrier all
their own. And while the author and his family may have had the wrong shade
of skin, that wasn't going to stop them from succeeding.
The Post's Colbert I. King, whose article 'The Kings of Foggy Bottom' appeared in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine, was online Monday, Feb. 2 at 1 p.m. ET to field questions and comments about the article and life in black Washington in the '50s and '60s.
King is a Washington Post deputy editorial page editor.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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Columbia, Md.:
Thank you for this inspiring story and also for your weekly column. Every Saturday I look forward to reading your column--because of its honesty, intelligence, insistent diligence and commitment to the city. My question today though comes from the shootings at Ballou -- what can be done to make schools safe for the students and when/how can we make it happen?
washingtonpost.com: Two Shot at Ballou High School (Post, Feb. 2)
Colbert I. King : a good, but tough question. the first thing is to admit we have the problem. then separate the troublemakers from the students who want to learn. reexamine security at the schools...the status of metal detectors, the quality of the security guards and police stationed at the schools. above all, get the thugs out, and that's not hard to do.
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Long Beach, Calif.:
Dear Mr. King,
"The Kings of Foggy Bottom" was great!
Your article took me back to my youth.
My dad was stationed at the Naval School of
Music in the mid-50's, and I can remember the
trucks with the watermelons slowly moving down the street. I can also vividly recall the kids of D.C. dressed up for church, which leads me to my question:
How did the churches of D.C. reflect the stratification of the black community?
(P.S. Did you ever hear Sam Cooke sing in church?)
Colbert I. King : I heard Sam Cooke sing spirituals but never in a church. You could detect the stratification on the basis of ministerial behavior--the higher class of preachers raised their vocies slightly...our ministers at the Liberty Baptist Church then on 23rd Street N.W. shouted and sometimes when the spirit moved them, ran around the church. None of that kind of stuff went on at high-toned churches.
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Mclean, Va.:
Dear Mr. Colbert:
Reading your article "The Kings of Foggy Bottom" in the Washington Post Magazine is like meeting you in person; I have been reading your editorials in the Post most of the weeks, skipping only those that focuses on DC urban problems which I find them to be painful and frustrating to read through, and leave me feeling uneasy for not doing anything about it.
I wish I could pick the phone and write a note to your mother to pay my uttermost respect. We parents understand the innate force in us that drive us to care our children, but your mother's love for her kids was sacrificial, which was rewarded, I am so glad to learn, in her children's success. What a comfort Kings' children brought to their parents.
I also was a working mother, and experienced discrimination, it pains me whenever I think about it. But compare to what you folks had to go through, it is not worth mentioning.
I am curious, during those segregation days, what was the predicament of those people who were neither black, nor white in Washington D.C.? Asian Americans, for example.
Betty
washingtonpost.com: The Kings of Foggy Bottom (Post, Feb. 1)
Colbert I. King : Dear Betty: My parents have passed away. I recall a small Asian community, mostly Chinese,and owners of neighborhood laundries.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
Mr. King,
I am 33 years old and I am a rarity like you: A District born and raised African-American. There aren't many of us around who can say that. I enjoyed your vignette immensely. The insights that you provided are similar to the ones I have heard from my elders who went to McKinley Tech (When Tech was Tech.)
There are quite a few of your readers who will be turned off by your words of wisdom because they will think that we don't need to remember the past. It makes us bitter, they say.
African-Americans can live almost anywhere in the District and its suburbs that they can afford. We can drive luxury cars and eat at The Palm. What we can't do is allow the younger generation to forget how much hard work it took from people like you and your generation for this to be possible. Your message is for the young not to waste the privilege of education. Live your life the right way. Take care of family. Being "all about the Benjamins" is what seems to be all the rage now. Hopefully, someone will read your article and take the message with them.
Colbert I. King : We ignore the past at our peril. There are plenty of lessons to be learned if we would only take the time to listen to the old folks ( like myself)
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Washington, D.C.:
Greetings!; I am the daughter of Mr. B.A. (Bernard Alvin) Cole, your sixth grade teacher at Stevens. My father passed little over a year ago. His words of encouragement to you were typical of his approach. I was wondering if I could get a copy of the note he wrote you.
Colbert I. King : You certainly can. It's in my autograph book. Mr. Cole was a giant of a man...in fact the only male teacher at Stevens at the time. He was a leader and role model for all of the boys... and the adviser to the student patrol, an elite organization. he made me a lieutenant which meant I wore a badge with red stuff on it, and it made the girls look at me.
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Springfield, Va. (DC in Heart and Spirit):
Hi Colbert,
This is not a question, but a comment. Several years ago my daughter gave me a beautiful book with blank pages and asked me to write her some of my memories about growing up and life in general. I've not put anything in the book and I keep saying I'll write something. After reading your article, "The King's of Foggy Bottom," I've decided to put your article in the book for her to read and to get some understanding of how life was in our days of the mid 50's and 60's. You and I were at Dunbar at the same time and I know your memories of Dunbar and DC are factual. My prospectives were somewhat different from yours because I am female, bi-racial and of the "Lighter Hue," but you captured your experiences with the honesty and openness that characterizes your writing stlye.
It is so very important that our young people, be they black, white or yellow, understand their history and don't take for granted that what they have today has always been there. They stand on the shoulders of so many of us who have lived through other historical times.
Again, thanks for helping me start the book for my daughter.
A Friend,
Jean
Dunbar 1958
Colbert I. King : Hi Jean: You've said it all. We also laughed a lot at Dunbar and you were an outstanding cheerleader.
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Washington, D.C.:
Your story was quite a contribution. It does seem so much the worse when the divisiveness comes from within the group that has already been alienated from the larger society. My family, in which there are 10 adult children who range from dark to light and every shade between, has also suffered divisiveness from within, in light of the fact that the more successful (according to society's definition) of the children are also of fairer complexion. Division of people according to color and, as you point out, class, tears people apart at every level of society, even down to the level of the family - it's an American tragedy.
Colbert I. King : This is a painful topic, but I doubt there are many adult African Americans who have not had to deal with this problem in one way or another.
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Hampton, Va.:
I enjoyed your column today because it brings back memories of growing up in Washington DC during your era. I went to Spingarn High School and Howard. Do you remember the Howard University days and the issues of skin color for homecoming queens? I congratulate your parents for remaining intact during your childhood. Many of us were not as fortunate. It makes a difference.
Colbert I. King : Do I remember??? The Homecoming Queen contest was completely wrapped up in class and color. Class because the Greeks usually sponsored a candidate who often won. And pigmentation of the lighter variety often carried the day...until the year the non-Greeks on campus put up Robin Gregory, a non-Greek, who became an upset winner. She was also of the lighter variety...the independents knowing better not to stray too far out of the box.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
Hi there,
I was really moved by your article. I wish that every child, white, black, whatever, would have people in his or her life like your teacher or your parents who inspire him/her to do great things. I will aspire to do that with my own children for sure.
Colbert I. King : The people who inspired me did it by example, not so much by what they said...though my parents had a lot to say...all of the time. The important thing, at least it has been for me as a parent, is to live your life in a way that your children wouldn't mind becoming like you.
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Houston, Tex.:
Colbert, thank you for your article. I have read it two or three times today and sent it to several friends as well. I grew up in New Orleans where a caste system based on skin tone is alive and well. I have achieved some success partially because I was fueled by anger because of my treatment at the hands of snooty black folks. How did you keep from being angry and bitter?
Colbert I. King : The bitterness may linger but you have to move on. There's nothing like success to compensate for the hurt. But I've learned one more thing: some of them were hurting, too.
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washingtonpost.com:
Photo Gallery: A Picture of Success
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North Carolina:
Mr. King -- Terrific article!; My observation is that when my aunts & uncles left NC to journey to the promised land of DC and worked so hard and stressed the education and family loyalty they managed to pull themselves into the middle class (and a couple even higher). However, I find that many of the following generation having been born "more privileged" than their parents could have imagined and given opportunities for college educations as a given have stagnated. They seem lost and almost totally lacking the motivation for betterment that their parents had. So many of them seem to have little motivation for ANYTHING!; And family loyalties among this latter generation -- fuggetabit!; I have no idea if economists have perhaps given a name to a trend such as this, but have you thoughts on this?
Colbert I. King : yes I have. There's nothing like a little oppression to concentrate the mind wonderfully! Don't worry, the younger generation will soon discover that the "Promised Land" this isn't; and that it falls to each generation to re-win the victories.
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Houston, Tex.:
Editor King,
You were lucky. At least your color
segregation was up on a hill. Mines was
in my family in Brenham, Texas. Willie
Lynch (the West Indies Plantation owner)
was alive and well then as he is today.
My Father's mother treated him
different from her other 8 children. He
was the oldest and darkest in the family.
She also hated his children. Among
other things she did, was to make us
work in the fields and garden while our
lighter skinned cousin played at the
house. She would take the food our
parents would cook for us each day
before they went to work and and bring
along with us, was given to my lighter
skinned cousins. This went on for some
time until we fully understood what was
going on and was able to tell our parents
about this and the punishments we
received.
The grandparents on my mother side
were completed different. Those
grandparents brought some of the most
enjoyable time of my life as a child. They
also were the first ones to die.
L. Johnson
Freedmen's Town/Fourth Ward, Houston,
Texas.
P.S.:
I have spent many a day in the old slave
warehouse that now house the Center for
Community Change (1000 Wisconsin,
NW)(I guess that is the same area). I
knew that that area was once home to
Black people right there on the Potomic
River. They were driven out just like we
are being driven out of Freedmen's Town
which sits on the Buffalo Bayou next to
downtown Houston. However, Black
people who are elected Representatives
for D.C down to the School Board led the
charge. We even got the Frost-Leland
Amendment (1987) through Congress
and signed by Reagan to protect the
neighborhood. A black Congresswoman
named Sheila Jackson Lee got it
repealed. Now days, many of the Blacks
are very dark, i.e. former Houston Mayor
Lee Brown.
L.E.J.
Colbert I. King : I've heard about such stories. Can tell some of my own, not about my family, but about the way in which kids did things to each other to show how much they valued light skin and hated the dark. They were in the dark, too.
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Washington, D.C.:
You wrote about 'The Bottom' in the 50's and
and 60's. I lived in Georgetown where I do not feel that we had the problems that you faced until we crossed the P Street bridge.
I think we were prepared to handle to problems because of the area in which we lived.
I am the daughter of the school doctor - Dr. Joseph Dodson - you had at Stevens and Francis.
Barbara
Colbert I. King : Hello Barbara: I remember your father well. He used to show up with trays of needles which he seemed delighted to stick in our arms. Dr. Dodson, at least when he was on duty, was not a warm and fuzzy man. Those shots hurt!
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Arlington, Va.:
From a fellow St. Columban
I was expecting to see in yesterday's article a mention of the "brown paper bag" test that I read or heard about several years ago. If there was such a test, would you please explain it for the benefit of friends who think I made it up. Thanks.
You also didn't mention Gold Coast residents who I believe were thought of as even higher class than hill residents.
Last question: where did largely African American St. Mary's parishioners fit in?
Colbert I. King : the "brown paper bag" test was applied to membership in clubs. if the applicant was darker than a brown paper bag...next!
The Gold Coast came later in the sixties...Blagden Ave and the immediate environs.
St Mary's was two doors from my grandparents house at 716 23rd Street. My grandfather was the sexton at the church , though he attended Liberty Baptist which was in the 600 block of 23rd, where the GWU physical education building for women used to be located. St Mary's folks were hinkty.
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Washington, D.C.:
Colby,
Your article had me remembering when I was a child growing up as a native, it was had for me to read some parts of the story because I lived quite a bit of it, your were so honest and frank you made me cry I had to stop reading for a minute and just reflect. Great piece. I am so proud to know you and to see someone tell the truth.
Johnnie
Native Washingtonia who also live it.
Colbert I. King : Yes, Johnnie we can look back and weep...and laugh, too.
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Washington, D.C.:
I read you article and a tear trickled down my cheek. I worked in the District for about 20 years and my colleagues didn't seem to put a premium on skin color. However, I recently started working in the suburbs and was taken aback and quite surprise with the disproportion about of blacks who place a premium on being light skin. Can you provide any insight into what that's all about?
Colbert I. King : I'd have to know a little more about the area in which you work. But consider this: the folks who used to live "up on the Hill"? They moved on up to the Gold Coast when we move up a little closer...then they fled to the Platinum Coast..which is the 4th alphabet ( i know this is confusing but I'm having fun with this), and after when got our coins together to move on up a little higher, they fled to the 'burbs.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
I am a native Washingtoninian and I thought that your representation of the city was fair. It is interesting how people of all races seek to seperate themselves from their group by skin shade, economic standing, chosen profession or other affiliations. Just because other folks do it to us doesn't mean it's alright for us to do it to each other for a percieved leg up. The old crab in the pot argument (one tries to get out and the others drag him back.) Good article.
Colbert I. King : thanks. crabs are for eating, not fighting...
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Washington, D.C.:
Dear Mr. King:
Can you elaborate on the Gold Coast? I grew up there. I'm honey brown - maybe slightly lighter or darker than a paper bag - depending on which one you use. My Dad is dark-skinned, my mother light - but they are not Old washington families -They came from rural environs where their parents did not go to college. I can't really say that my Dad was color struck, because his first wife, was medium to dark brown. I think we ended up on the Gold Coast - purely based on merit. I'm 31 years old.
Colbert I. King : I'd have to know the year in which you moved to the Gold Coast. The area has changed quite a bit, racially, though it still is a middle class community.
I must point out, however, that it was not unusual to drive along Bladgen Ave during the early period of our migration there and spot the number of taxi cabs parked in front of the houses, suggesting that some folks were working two jobs.
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Mitchellville, Md.:
Mr. King,
I enjoyed reading your article this past Sunday regarding "Kings of Foggy Bottom"! I can relate to the internal class issues that Blacks dealt with then, and I wonder if things have changed so much? My question is how do you explain to someone (who happens to be black as well) that to call another "red" "high yellow" or anything else of that nature is frankly rude and hurtful (can I add childish as well)?
It seems as though my very own husband is still what I define as "color struck" and used to refer to me (his own wife) as "red"! He always gets on me for going to the Univ. of MD at College Park, while he attended Howard University. Explaining I'll never understand the "experience" that he had at black university versus a predominatly white university. He claims that "folks like me" still think I'm better than other "black folks" because I'm light skinned with "good hair". I really don't understand where he gets these views because he comes from a very affluent family who comes in ALL shades. My husband happens to be brown skin although he likes to think of himself as dark skinned (not at all). While I love my husband and we end up agreeing to disagree, I guess I find it amazing that in today's society, some people in the black community still harbor many of the sentiments that you wrote about when you were growing up. For as far as we as a people have come, some things just haven't seemed to change. Your thoughts?
Colbert I. King : segregation "affects their hearts and minds in a way unlikely ever to be undone" said the Supreme Court. He is an example of that.
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washingtonpost.com:
That was the last question for today and thanks for reading.
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