For more than two decades, Juan Romagoza mostly suppressed the memories
of being shocked, shot and hung by his hands by interrogators during El
Salvador's civil war. But last year, in a U.S. courtroom, he testified
against two of Salvador's former military leaders -- and he won his case with
the help of the Torture Victims Protection Act.
Romagoza, whose ordeal was recounted in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine, was online to field
questions and comments.
Romagoza is the executive director of La Clinica del Pueblo in Northwest Washington.
The transcript follows.
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
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washingtonpost.com:
Juan will be with us shortly.
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Alexandria, Va.:
Who in the State Department arranged for the generals to be admitted to residence in Florida?
Juan Romagoza: This is a good question. I would like to know the answer as well. Joshua Phillips, the author of this article, explored the issue more and may have more information. But truly, I would like to know more about who was responsible for this immigration policy and who decided to give residency to these men. The immigration "treatment" that these men received contrasts dramatically from the great majority of Salvadoran refugees who were victims of the terror of these men.
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Silver Spring, Md.:
First of all I would like to congratulate you on all the triumphs you have had both personally and professionally. I am a 23-year-old psychology student and have always been interested in getting involved with your clinic. I was born here in Washington, D.C., and my mother is from San Salvador. I want to do something for my community. How can I get involved? Where do I start? Tengo mucho corazon y quisiera ayudar en algo.
Juan Romagoza: Thanks for your support and interest. Of course, La Clinica relies heavily on volunteers. We would be happy to have your support. Please call La Clinica at 202-462-4788 for more information.
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Washington, D.C.:
If you had to decide, what would be the best way to achieve reconciliation in El Salvador today?
Juan Romagoza: As the article mentioned, the main way people are dealing with this issues of the war right now is with silence. But I believe that this did not work - not with me - on the contrary, silence is another type of torture - it perpetuates it. I understand that there is a process and a time to recover, but it seems that in El Salvador, no one wants to open the window yet to talk about this. People talk on the family level, in bars, on the beach, but never officially. Never judicially, scientifically, emotionally, psychologically. It doesn't seem that anyone wants to talk about this formally. It seems that there is an official barrier to talking about this sincerely and openly.
My suggestion is to talk about it. Take it out of the closet and discuss it in churches, which have been silent up until now. Talk about it in schools. In universities. So that all of the social levels talk about this - how they can recognize the effects that exist and how to find solutions for the short and long-term.
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Northern Virginia:
How many appeals will you have to go through for this to be finished? How long will it take? Do you think you will ever see the settlement you were awarded?
Juan Romagoza: Until now, it's only one appeal, and we're waiting for the response - it may take around a year. We don't know how much time it will take. We are fairly sure we will not receive anything because the generals declared bankruptcy and are showing that they don't have any money. They had enough time before the trial to redistribute their capital - in ways that the law couldn't control.
From the beginning, compensation was not the objective. The greatest triumph was having brought these two leaders, supported by the US, to court. And the positive result is the reward of this effort - that has a huge meaning for millions in El Salvador and in the world. Many people who were killed - their families are happy, and this is the greatest compensation from this trial.
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Fairfax, Va.:
Senor Romagoza,
I was so moved by your story and your struggles. I think that it's amazing that you've been able to put these experiences behind you.
Do you think that the men who tortured you are evil? Or were they caught up in the circumstances?
Good luck in the future.
Juan Romagoza: Thank you - I'm afraid I haven't yet been able to put these experiences behind me. At times, when I see what's happening in the world, I re-live my experiences and wonder how many more are suffering similar things right now. Doing the the work that I was doing in El Salvador, serving the same population for which I was tortured, this helps me live, survive, and inspires me to overcome my physical and emotional limitations.
With respect to those who tortured me - no, I don't think they are evil. In fact, I have talked to one of them. I think that they were victims as well. They were poor people, people with needs, who had their only option to survive be to join the military. I think that the evil in this case was the system - the blind politics that trained these poor people to kill their brothers. These former military members need help now. They probably need more help than those who were victims of torture. We have support. We can show our scars, talk about it, and receive help. They have more fear of talking, about being identified as torturers. They suffer even more in silence. And silence is worse than the torture.
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Northern Virginia:
How did the United States play a role in the Salvadorian Civil War? I know they helped the government of El Salvador but what else went on?
Juan Romagoza: This was a policy that the US had for all of Latin America in those years. The situation in El Salvador was repeated in many similar forms in other countries in the area. The US prepared in advance with projects such as the School of the Americas in which they trained the military leaders on "counter-insurgency." A great percentage of the military leaders trained in the School of the Americas repeated the same human rights violations in their countries (Pinochet, Strossner, Noriega, D'abuison, Somoza, Alvarez....).
All were cut from the same cloth. They looked at the people as their enemy. They had the philosophy of eliminating all that they thought of as their enemy, with out caring about violations of human rights. The School of the Americas still exists.
In the 80s, US helped El Salvador with almost $1 million every day. All of this was in order to maintain a system of terror and later, they opened the door so that the military could come to the US - like a prize for them.
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Washington, D.C.:
You mentioned in the article that you were surprised at how uninformed Americans seemed to be about the true situation in your country. How do you recommend educating Americans about El Salvador and the rest of the world?
Juan Romagoza: I hope that this answer responds to several of the questions we have received.
The great shock that I received when I came here was to hear of the arguments and opinions that Americans had about the war in El Salvador. My impression, coming from El Salvador, was that because of the major role the US was playing in our country, most people would know what was going on. But the shock was that the only thing they "knew" was so limited and distorted, that they thought it was only a fight to stop communism. And they thought the communists were trying to take over El Salvador - things that were so diametrically opposite to what was actually happening in El Salvador.
I walked almost the whole country of El Salvador on foot - and I never met people who talked to me about communism. What I did see was hunger, unemployment, premature deaths, epidemics, injustice, massacres. This was what made the majority of Salvadorans denounce the government, organize, and resist.
I think that the North American people, before giving approval for the US government to go into a country, need to inform themselves about the reality of that country (without fabricated documents) and who are the allies that we can find who don't have their hands covered in blood. Who aren't corrupt, or aren't themselves human rights violators. If we don't, we're going to be accomplices in these abuses.
People need to learn more profoundly about these subjects, not just headlines. The consequences are many deaths, pain, orphans, traumas, widows, etc. We all need to take an active role, not a passive one. We can't give a silent "okay" to our government. We need to participate in our government and our foreign policy.
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Washington, D.C.:
The U.S. refuses to participate in the international effort to address torture and other war crimes through the War Crimes Tribunal (most likely because it is a major perpetrator of torture through what used to be called the military's School of the Americas). Your court case was an incredibly important means here in this country to hold some individuals accountable for their crimes. What do you think of the international court, and can you suggest ways to put pressure on the U.S. government to reverse its position?
Juan Romagoza: I believe that yes, definitely, we need to be responsible leaders in the world about human rights. To continue the spirit of the founders of this country - those who were themselves fleeing repression and abuses in their countries (those who came from Europe, etc.) . This ideal has been distorted through our policies. By not being part of the international courts, we're not adhering to the principles of our country - to consolidate democracy in the world. Those who love these principles of justice need to pressure our government to join this international accord. It's never too late.
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Eastern Maryland:
You said you didn't think your torturers were
evil, that they were also victims, but what about
the generals?
Juan Romagoza: Yes, I think they generals were also victims. They were used, trained, and given power at that moment, and then thrown away. They were disposable. Perhaps, as they were with their power at that time, they felt that they were untouchable. They were able to allow that violations occurred - they didn't see any consequences.
People have such short-term projections - they saw such a small, limited future, but didn't think of the long-term consequences. Today, they suffer those consequences. Now they are alone. They have fear about what they did. They suffer in silence. They, too, are victims of their own actions and their ambitions. But they are victims, and need help too.
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washingtonpost.com:
Thank you for joining today's discussion.
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Boston, Mass.:
Mr. Romagoza,
In Boston and nearby cities there are many Salvadorans now, who have formed communities like their country -- small, but very strong and vibrant. At the same time, especially for young men, it seems that the violence of El Salvador has translated into an American context, so now there are lots of problems with gangs.
My question for you is, as a Salvadoran who has worked for many years in the Latino communities, what is your view on the challenges facing Salvadorean youth in the U.S. today? What can we do to save these young people, whose families have come so far and fought so hard to survive?
Juan Romagoza: Thank you for your question - I think that the trauma that we Salvadorans have lived, we pass on to our children. And the worst thing is that we ignore it - we don't identify it. In ignoring it, we don't talk about the effects of the violence and trauma on our children. They maybe didn't see the violence themselves, but they have absorbed the experience into themselves.
I think that the challenge is to recover this family bond - family unity and values and look for answers in our families of these traumas we've experienced. Look for an explanation of our aggressive attitudes in our family traumas and our personal traumatic experiences. Through family, we can look for solutions for the future.
For me, it is important to look for space that allows us to hope, respect life, and fight for the future. This space is within our personal circles. The challenge is to reintegrate the family in the lives of our young people. These are the ties that keep us together.
Here, at La Clinica del Pueblo, our experience has been working with how to alleviate the traumas of war in families. We work to bring this issue to whole family groups and educate anew about how families can work together in this country. In bringing the subject of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder to the table in a simple, straightforward way, we can prevent violence and its effects on daily life.
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Juan Romagoza: Thank you for your interest and questions in this subject. This interest is a reflection that there is a strong promise that these things won't repeat themselves in other countries around the world, and that we have a strong responsibility to be a member of the most powerful country in the world. This power should not be transformed into abuse. Abuse such as this denigrates and stomps on human dignity.
Thank you also to Joshua Phillips and the Washington Post for giving me the opportunity to tell my story.
- Juan
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