Outlook: The New SAT

Here we go again. It's going to be code-red panic next Saturday in households across the country as thousands of American high school students set off to be guinea pigs for the first New SAT. The anxiety level's been building for a month, says Alexandria high school teacher Patrick Welsh in his Sunday Outlook article, New SAT? We Know the Score. Welsh has been teaching a prep course on the New SAT for the past month, but he wonders what exactly is so "new" about it. Yes, the latest version adds a writing section with a 25-minute essay to the old exam, and drops the much-dreaded analogies that were a longtime hallmark of the SAT. But the new test on the whole just looks like a combination of the old math-and-verbal SAT plus what used to be the SAT II in writing, says Welsh, who worries that this latest "innovation" in testing is just another straw in the stack of stress we heap on our students, and that it won't be any better at helping colleges decide whom to admit than all its predecessors were.

Welsh, who has taught English at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria for more than 30 years, was online Monday, March 7, at 12:40 p.m. ET to take questions about the New SAT.

Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Greenwich, Conn.:
I realize this is a slightly different subject, but I'm curious about the SAT II subject tests. Since the elimination of "score choice" academic advisors here have been suggesting that students only take the SAT subject tests after taking the equivalent AP course. They say that even a score of 700 on a subject test is too low to impress a competitive college. What is your opinion?

Patrick Welsh: Ideally, one should take the subject tests as close to the end of a course - AP whatever - as possible so the info will be fresh. I am not so sure about a 700 not impressing a competivite college. If it were combined with other good scores and a good transcript, how cold it not impress?

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Alexandria, Va.: It is breathtakingly astounding that anyone who teaches at TC Williams could criticize the SAT in any format. Your piece smacks of jealous anger, at the root of which might be TC Williams' students' neanderthal-range SAT scores and horrible college prospects.

Patrick Welsh: I would not describe the students I've taught who have graduated fromPrinceton, Yale Harvard, UVA and other fine schools as Neanderthals. Nor woldI describe Ed Wong (TC '91) who had the lead story in the New York Times from Abu Ghraib as neanderthal. Your comments smacks of the racist drivel that so many who have no idea of what goes on in public schools would like to believe. I was going to call you an elitist - but I think neanderthal would be better.

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Rockville, Md.: The new writing section seems to require a formulaic essay with no points for originality, the hallmark of good writers. What's your opinion?

Patrick Welsh: I agree totally. It encourages shallow writing and thinking,

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Alexandria, Va.: I remember taking the old SAT and I also remember not being the biggest fan of standardized tests. I scored well enough, but needed grades from high school as well as activities such as sports and community involvement to help me out with merit-based scholarships for college. Do you think the new SATs offer a better chance for acceptance to universities and accompanying [merit] scholarships for those of us who aren't huge fans of the old two-part standardized tests?

Patrick Welsh: I think the opportunitews will be about tha same as it was when you took it.

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Rockville, Md.:
What follows is some free advice for conscientious high school students (and their parents), so take it for it's worth:

Don't believe the hype when it comes to the importance of SAT test scores or what college you go to.

I went to Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School in the early 1980s and bought into that hype. Little did I know that there were more than enough good colleges available that I did way too much unnecessary worrying. Now, I have well-respected professional colleagues who began their college educations at community colleges (subsequently going on to state universities to receive their advanced degrees).

As far as your high school academics, enjoy the intellectual stimulation which they provide and your grades and test scores will take care of themselves. If you wish, take a low-cost SAT prep course, but please don't stress out over the SAT. You'll find that the most important things in your life will have nothing to do with how you scored on the SAT.

Patrick Welsh: Bravo! Every parent should read what you wrote.

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Washington, D.C.: Why are you starting your chat at 12:40? Is this a test?

Patrick Welsh: It's my lunch hour at school - no test.

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1999 Graduate: They're taking away the analogies? I always thought that was the hardest part of the verbal section. I'm disappointed, but I guess it doesn't really matter for me anymore...

Patrick Welsh: I'm a bit disappointed too, if no no other reason than they were fun to go over - and I think they did distinguish the kids who had super high verbal talent.

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Alexandria, Va.: I'd like to comment on the SAT in general. I went to a superb university, where I graduated with phi beta kappa and magna cum laude honors. While in college, I had two majors, played a varsity sport, and held a job on campus. My overall GPA was a 3.8. I would not have been admitted to this university if I had sent them my SAT scores, which were pretty bad. Luckily, they accepted ACT scores, and I had much success and contributed much to the school. That is Point A about how little SAT scores really measure an individual's aptitude. Point B came later, as I was applying for a job. I had spent 3 years in a large corporation, in which time I had received a promotion and had great references. The older gentleman with whom I was interviewing ingored all of the above and asked -- three years post graduating from college, mind you --- what my SAT scores had been. It was horrible that all that success and experience meant nothing in the face of antiquated test scores. I am now a very successful professional and would like to share my experiences as an example of how SAT scores really cannot be relied upon to measure a person's success in an academic or professional environment.

Patrick Welsh: Thanks. I've seen stories like yours play out with so many former students who worried about their "low" SAT scores and are now extremely successful.

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Chicago, Ill.: Hey Mr. Welsh -- a former student of yours here, sitting in my office where I'm taking a break from writing a particularly intricate response to a motion to dismiss in a federal securities fraud case. Just writing in to say hello (I had you for AP English a long time ago -- I'm TC '92) and to take further issue with the troglodyte who had the audacity to call TC students neanderthals. I went to UVA for college and law school and remember with great fondness and admiration many of the teachers I had at TC who made me a better writer and thinker. That poster's comments just really incensed me. I don't have any comments about the new SAT except that I'm grateful I'm past that. That, and in my jaundiced view, the new SAT is just another way to justify the testing industry's existence. Thanks for letting me vent my spleen.

Patrick Welsh: Thanks. But who are you. I want to know.

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Laurel, Md.: I always enjoy your articles as I used to teach in Alexandria (at GW), in fact, I had Tyler Spillenkothen as a student in 7th grade -- he's a great kid!

I believe testing is really out of control in our school systems across the country -- as the other young man said in your piece -- they could be learning so much more instead of spending so much time being tested. I remember a guidance counselor saying her title should be changed to testing coordinator and only that, as it consumed so much of her time.

But my biggest frustration is my daughter's experience in kindergarten in Prince George's county. She is doing very well, however she hates school. It is very intense, few breaks, lots of worksheets. I feel it is the county's way of cramming as much in as they can so that the kids will pass the tests which are begun in 2nd grade. It feels like to me that tests are driving everything these days and it's a shame because we are losing so much to it.

Thanks for your articles and keep it up!

Patrick Welsh: Testing is driving way too much today - especially in public schools.

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Alexandria, Va. (T. C. Williams Parent): Mr. Welsh -- your opinion story was called "we know the score?" Then how come the average Alexandria public high school student can't even crack 1,000 on the SATs?

Patrick Welsh: As a TC parent you know that 27% of our studetns come from other countries and English is not the language spoken at home. Also some 40% are on free and reduced lunch. Unfortunately SAT scores are often dependent on a kid's socio-economic background. While the average score may not be above 1,000, there are many kids with 1300 and 1400 SAT scores. When socio-economic background is taken into consideration T.C. does as well as any school - public or private.

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Sarasota, Fla.: It seems that the scoring will be different than the old SAT. There will be weighting of questiions? With more difficult worth more that easier questions. Can you explain?

Patrick Welsh: As far as I know the question themselves are not weighted. An easy sentence completion would have the same value as a the one mentioned where the answer was treacly.

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Arlington, Va.: Not a question, just a comment. I'm much prouder of my high school senior daughter than myself. She absolutely refused to take the SATs more than once, even though three months ago I was convinced she needed to raise her 690 math score. She said she has to take too many standardized tests as it is. Of course, we're still waiting for the April college letters but in retrospect, I think she was right.

Patrick Welsh: Hurray for your daughter. A 690 was a great score. She sounds like a confident, balanced kid who will thrive wherever she goes to college.

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Springfield, Va.: Hi, I just have a comment, or perhaps a word of hope, for students facing a daunting standardized test. Don't panic if your test scores aren't perfect or you don't get into an Ivy League school. I scored in the high 1,200s on the SAT during the fall of my senior year. I was content with this and did not retake the exam. Many of my friends did score better, and were anxious about retaking it to improve their scores. I went to a state university and, after two years, transferred to a dedicated liberal arts school where I graduated with honors. Now, nine years after graduating from a Fairfax County public high school, and at the age of 26, I work at a large IT firm, I have a very good salary, and I own a four bedroom townhouse. I even worked in the video game industry for a few years after college. I enjoy holidays abroad, cultural activities and have a great social life. Some of my peers who had better test scores and more robust academic lives are still trying to catch up. My point is that what matters most is what you learn in high school from your favorite teachers, friends, books, and experiences, and how you apply those memories to your life. Don't try to compare yourself to everyone else who has their own agenda to become valedictorian and go to Harvard. Certainly, that is admirable too, but everyone has different ways of shining, and your time will come. You don't have to try to accomplish and prove everything by the time you're 18 -- you have a big long life ahead of you, filled with more education, work, travel, successes, friends, mistakes, fears, accomplishments, and fun! Do your best and enjoy yourself for who you are. Worry about making yourself, not everyone else, happy... you're the one you have to live with! No matter what, your parents and true friends are proud of you.

Patrick Welsh: If I can do it, I am going to copy your response and show it to my students. It's the kind of wisdonm they don't hear enough of - from parent or teachers.

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Washington, D.C.: My graduating class was the last to take the old SAT-- analogies and all, scoring system same as back in the Nixon administration. Since then, it seem like the College Board is revamping the test ever more frequently. The SAT used to be somewhat of a "gold standard" for measuring college apptitude (or whatever you want to say the test measured) across different populations across time and geography. The test was supposed to basically measure verbal and mathematical acuity independentally of actual specific knowledge of particular literary works or mastery of "higher" math, so as to compensate for the differing education backgrounds of takers.

It seems to me, the College Board has given up on the ideal of any sort of test which could be targeted to measure general aptitude, and is instead trying to be the test of all things. IN doing so, the test loses relevance, because it is duplicative of the other factors which college admissions officers already weigh. Entrance essays or AP tests show writing ability, as should high school grades. College transcripts show which students have taken calculus and which have not. Additionally, the test becomes ever more favorable to those with the means to afford elite schools and private tutoring.

The changes have destroyed much of what made the SAT unique and worthwhile, while not adding anything of value to glut of data admissions officers already sift through.

Patrick Welsh: The college board is saying that the new test is going to measure what a kid learns in school but there is no way of escaping the fact that what it will measure most is what the test in your day measured - as you say acuity - which kids are
quicker than others mathematically or verbally. And this "new" test is going to be more coachable.

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Orange, Va.: There's a critic on every street corner. I've yet to hear a pundit or critic come up with alternatives. It's easy to say an essay on a national assessment ecourages shallow writing and thinking; how would you practically design an assessment for three million students that can be scored efficiently and that measures a student's writing proficiency? It seems that you'd throw your hands up and say it can't be done on a national assessment.

Patrick Welsh: As I said in the article, the old test measured writing
ability. Any kid with a 700+ could write well, even though it had to be coaxed (or beaten) our of him or her. Ironically, the new section where students actually have to write an essay will not measure writing abiltiy as well, because it is too short and will hurry kids and because there will be problems getting consistent grading. At least that is what I think.

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Springfield, Va.: To the person who was beating up on TC Williams earlier in this session, try reading The Washington Post a little more often in addition to weighing in with poorly grounded opinions. Remember this headline from last month?

"T.C. Williams Weighs Plan to Join Magnet
Opponents Cite Cost, Loss Of Top Science Students

By Tara Bahrampour
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 25, 2005; Page B01

Twice in the last six years, Alexandria's ethnically and economically diverse T.C. Williams High School has pulled off a minor miracle: It has won the Virginia Science Bowl, beating out Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, a highly selective powerhouse in Fairfax County that attracts some of the brightest science minds in Northern Virginia......"

Patrick Welsh: Right on! But I gave up on those people long ago - for many reasons, they just don't want to believe that such a diverse high school can be successful. And if you knew the kids on those two science bowl teams, you wouldn't call it a miracle minor or otherwise. They were brilliant kids whose parents
knew they could get a top flight education is a diverse school.

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Washington, D.C.: A question about handwriting: I've read that essay graders are not to take into consideration a student's handwriting. Is this so? How can poor handwriting NOT affect a scorer's grade?

Patrick Welsh: I tell my students who are going to take the AP test in English to try to write as legibly was they can - I even tell them about what kind of pens to use, because like you I believe agree that no matter how hard a grader tries, he or she cannot help but be swayed a bit by handwriting.

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Alexandria, Va.: Dear Mr. Walsh:

I am also a former student and could not agree more that the SATs (and all standardized testing) consumes an inordinate amount of time and space in the lives of our children and our teachers. While I agree that there needs to be accountability in our schools and some way to measure acheivement, standardized testing is just a small piece of the puzzle. Back about a million years ago I did OK, but not great, on the SATs (1,190 after two tries). But TC Williams and you taught truly taught me how to be a better thinker and writer and I received a 5 on the AP English test. I attended UVA (though I am not sure I could get in now) and graduated with a 3.8 average. I went on to graduate school and received a Ph.D. in Social Psychology and am now a research psychologist. What my brothers (two of whom also had you) remember most about our years at TC are not our test grades, but some of the great teachers we had (many of whom are actually still teaching there!)

With both of my children now again in the Alexandria public schools, I am tryting to encourage them to do the best they can on things like the SOLs but also remember that what they do in the classroom and how they interact with their peers and teachers will always mean much more than what their scores were on those tests. And to address the earlier neanderthal -- I can't wait until my children attend the new TC Williams High School.

Patrick Welsh: I hope I am still here when your kids come to the new school.

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Massachussetts: Why are analogies so praised? I've always thought they were very unfair to ESL students. There are nuances to words that you pick up over 17 years that even the most proficient or intelligent ESL student hasn't.

Patrick Welsh: There were nuances in the analogies - especially whenyou got past the sixth or seventh one. What I have always told the ESL students is that they speak two language -in some case three or four - and that will help them in college and beyond.

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SAT scores mean nothing: I suffered through LD beging told I would never be a success, I got very low SAT scores, told I would never be a success. Ten years later I have a BS with a 3.8 average and almost done with a MS with a 4.0. The SAT are a measurement of nothing.

Patrick Welsh: Congratulations.

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