Challenge Index 2005 -- I Defend Myself

First, I would love another e-mail from you giving me more details. Exactly how are these students who are in AP just for a notch on their transcripts hurting your learning process? Do they speak out of turn? Do they tell jokes? Do they throw spitballs? Give me the details and I can respond better to your good question. And answer this question for me: if those people were not in the course, what would have been added to your learning experience that you cannot get while they are there?

Second, are you telling me that getting an AP mark on your transcript is not part of your motivation for taking the course? You would be the rare Fairfax County high schooler if that were true.

Third, put yourself in the place of those students who you would prefer not take AP. In fact, if you are really brave, and you know some of them, why don't you try to have a serious 10-minute conversation with one of them on why they chose to take the course, and what they hope to get out of it? And then, as a part of the exercise, I want you to do this for me: pretend you are that student's counselor, and compose for me what that counselor should say to that student in justifying not letting him take an AP course that he has signed up for. Keep in mind that AP courses do help students get into college. Keep in mind, and this is much more important to me, that AP courses help students exercise the academic muscles that will allow them to survive in college and graduate. Then compose your speech telling this student why he cannot be allowed to have that experience.

I have no problem with dropping AP students down to regular courses if they are not doing the work. That has happened for decades when honors course students failed to take the courses seriously, and I think it would be fine in this case also. My suggestion of an AP course just for them was just an idea, but it seemed to me if classrooms full of male malcontents produce great AP results in some of the schools I have visited, they might also work at Robinson. If a student is conscientiously trying to learn, all the studies and all the interviews I have had with AP teachers indicate he will learn more in the AP course than in a course that has a lower standard.

I agree with Pat Welsh that a regular course with HIM would be a challenging experience. Unfortunately, it is against the law for us to clone Pat, and there are a limited number of teachers that can make a course with a non-AP standard give a student what an AP course can give them. I am not bashing teachers here. I have spent my life writing about scores of the best ones. But you and I both know that not all teachers are the same, and the conditions of a regular course make it difficult for even a great teacher to do her best. Even before AP ever existed, there were regular courses in high school, and in most cases they have been compromises. The standards are relatively low so that kids will pass, that parents will be happy, and that some image of progress will be there. But we all know that a diet of such courses does not prepare students well for college, and we have the college dropout rates to prove it.

I also think Pat is right to want to give kids who do NOT want to go to college, but prefer trade school or some other option, a chance. But I don't think that such choices should be made by 16 year olds until they have had a chance to see how they might perform in a college-level course. Why shut off the option that is going to give them the highest living standards before they have even had a chance to try?

· Q. I enjoyed your back and fourth discussion on AP. However, it seemed to me that neither of you addressed the fundamental issue at the root of greater AP or IB enrollment -- which would be a larger pool of AP/IB ready students in high school.

This effort would not be initiated at the high-school level and, arguably, not even the middle-school level but at the primary-school level.

The word that many seem to avoid in this discussion is tracking, which I deplore on the elementary level as well as (though less so) on the middle-school level.

The problem is that by high school , the basic skill level among students varies so greatly due to years of educational neglect and social promotions that it is near impossible to bring them all together in one class and meet all their needs.

Are there borderline AP/IB qualified high school students that would benefit from the AP/IB experience with or without a passing grade on the end-of-year exam? Of course! But there will be at least as many that are overwhelmed to the point of being intimidated by the mere prospect of college-level work. Furthermore, as you note Pat, the teacher, would be forced to undermine the educational experience of those that are truly ready for AP as a trade-off for keeping the borderline students engaged.

Bottom line: find a way to send more students to high school ready for AP/IB and this discussion would not be necessary. -- Gus Griffin, counselor Central High School Prince George's County

· A. I agree entirely, but I do not think you can create enough pressure to raise standards in the lower grades unless you have a large and welcoming AP or IB program in the high school.

· Q. I was a teacher of honors-level chemistry and AP chemistry in Montgomery County for 15 years. Most of my service was at Churchill High School. I have to agree very strongly with Mr. Welsh regarding AP exams and the effect that Mr. Mathews' scoring system and others like it have on the outcome of students' learning.

Throughout the years, we were required to open the doors of classes at both the honors level and AP level to more and more students and while that happened, the average ability levels in those classes automatically went down. That is logical as there are only so many students within the community and we did not magically change the distribution of brains. At one point, we more than doubled the number of students who were enrolled in AP chemistry classes and honors chemistry classes and it became more difficult to expect the same degree of performance out of the students in the class.

The difficulty as I see it is that we need to challenge the wording we use in descriptions of the various offerings. I absolutely believe that we are in an insidious plight right now where we are neglecting some of the students in so-called "regular" classes and thus making it apparently seem advantageous for more students to go into advanced classes. My solution is to make the regular classes more rigorous than they are now and then still have even more stringent classes that we would call the "advanced placement" classes. If everyone qualifies for "advanced placement," over what is it advanced? The same logic applies to "honors" classes or "gifted" as they are called in Fairfax County.

If I were to give the same tests I gave to my regular students in 1984 at Churchill to the honors students I had to share with other teachers in 2001 ( my last year), I would have found that the younger students would have had a very difficult time passing the earlier tests. And yet, it was assumed that since these students were taking higher-level classes that a grade of C or lower should not be given as they would not get a lower grade in the lower levels and therefore, the low grade would discourage colleges from accepting them. So in essence, we were letting the mere presence of the student sitting in the class somehow be a indicator that he/she would do well in college. It makes no sense to me.

While I agree that we need to challenge more kids, I do not think that we should do it by this artificial and incomplete ranking that Mr. Mathews uses. Mr. Welsh makes the excellent point that the scores on the AP exams have to be considered as well as the fact that the students are just sitting in the classes and taking the tests. -- Linda Albus

· A. I would buy your idea in a second if there were a way to make those slightly below AP courses truly challenging and consistent year to year, and teacher to teacher. But I don't see any way to do that, other than creating another national curriculum and testing system, with outside graders. And I don't think that is likely to happen in any of our lifetimes.

Churchill High is special, and it can maintain pretty good regular courses because of the affluent, well-educated community it serves. But how are you going to produce that high standard for non-AP courses in the vast majority of American high schools? And how are you going to decide who is not worthy of AP at Churchill? That kind of sorting produces other problems. Haven't any of the AP students you thought would be shaky ever surprised you? If so, wouldn't you feel badly if you deprived them of that opportunity?

· Q. Although I've been the director of curriculum and instruction for the Lower Moreland Township (Penn.) School District since 1993, I also taught Advanced Placement for 22 years.

Let me begin by stating at the outset that I agree fully and squarely with your position. Some figures: 30 years ago, Lower Moreland had just 23 percent of its juniors and seniors enrolled in AP, with 81 percent scoring a 3 or better. Twenty years ago, the participation rate had increased to 32 percent, with 80 percent scoring a 3 or better. Last year (2004), our participation rate reached 41 percent with, you guessed it, 81 percent scoring a 3 or better. If 93 percent of this district's graduates continue their education and 85 percent do so at four-year colleges and universities, then it would seem to me that minimally 85 percent to 92 percent of our students should have had at least one AP course upon graduating. These students should have this experience here because this will help them as they move on to college. They are capable of doing this advanced work; indeed, they will need to do so upon graduation.

Please be assured that I am not concerned with the INDEX. Who would turn an entire school upside down, change curricula and channel students into inappropriate courses merely to see his or her name in a single issue of Newsweek? It's not about the numbers, but the academic rigor that these numbers represent. Rigor that teachers, administrators, parents and students can't fudge nor dumb down. The proof is in the participation and in the scores. At Lower Moreland, everyone who takes an AP course also takes the exam. Always. -- Del Hausman

· A. Thanks very much for this interesting and encouraging message. This year, with the help of Newsweek researchers Dan Brillman and Dan Berrett, I found 1,042 public high schools that achieved a Challenge Index rating of 1.000, meaning they gave at least as many college-level tests as they had graduating seniors. That is a 26 percent increase from two years ago, when we last did the Newsweek list. But it is still only about 4 percent of all U.S. public schools. I wish there were more high schools like yours, and more school administrators like you.