By Jay Mathews
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, May 10, 2005
3:03 PM
Newsweek magazine has just published, for the fourth time since 1998, my list of the most challenging public high schools in the United States.
That means I have to start practicing my bobbing, weaving, ducking and other defensive measures as the many intelligent and conscientious people who don't like what Newsweek and I have done come after me. The list is based on what I call the Challenge Index, a list of the top public high schools ranked by their success in persuading their students to take Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate college-level tests. Many people, particularly educators, think this is an awful way to measure schools, and I put my e-mail address at the end of the list so they can tell me so.
Fortunately, Patrick Welsh, the author and star AP English teacher at T.C. Williams High School in Alexandria, gave me an opportunity to get in shape for the onslaught by agreeing to debate the worthiness of the Challenge Index in the Post's Outlook section April 10. Pat did such a good job that most of the e-mails I received afterward gleefully declared him the winner. I tried to reply to each one. Here is a sample of messages and responses, with a few pro-me letters thrown in to make it clear that Pat's victory was not entirely unanimous (but almost). I think they highlight the most important issues that surround the list, and why Newsweek and The Post continue to run the rankings despite the criticism.
· Q. Your premise seems to be that high schools are 'failing' the students by not providing wider access to AP. But isn't that simplistic?
By the time one gets to high school, study habits, attitudes and ways of learning/thinking are pretty firmed up. That doesn't mean a kid can't learn to think better in high school, but by placing an undue burden on AP, you frustrate those kids who mentally aren't on the college track yet and need more teacher attention. To put them in AP classes is cruel.
Bear in mind that half of high school grads go to college, and only half of them graduate with a degree five years later. That means college is competitive, since one's peers are roughly in the top 25 percent of the high school class. So if you want to assure wider college access/success, a better answer is to design instructional programs for kids on the margins who belatedly (or half-heartedly) decide they want to go, but haven't yet developed the mental skills needed to cope with classroom instruction that is designed to challenge the top 25 percent. -- Robert W. Goranson
· A. I have been studying for many years the education of those who, as you say, "haven't yet developed the mental skills needed to cope with classroom instruction that is designed to challenge the top 25 percent," and I have a different view. The mental skills are already there. What is missing are high schools that give those kids the time and encouragement they need to exercise those skills and learn the material.
A century ago, only 25 percent of American teenagers went to high school, and people then believed the rest lacked the mental skills to handle it. Blessed with hindsight, do you think they were right? I sure don't.
My favorite teacher, Jaime Escalante of Garfield High School in East Los Angeles, worked in a school FULL of Mexican American kids who allegedly lacked the mental skills for AP calculus. And yet he had more kids taking that course than all but four high schools, public or private, in the country, and most of them passed the AP test.
The time and encouragement he gave them, he said, had to have a goal. That was the AP test. Research indicates that even a kid who tries hard in AP and flunks the exam is more likely to graduate from college than someone who is not allowed to take AP at all.
· Q. Is it really that interesting to say that students who have taken AP or IB coursework do better in college than those who have not?
What you are saying, in effect, is that the more college-level experience you have when you get to college the more likely you are to do well. Your parents' college-experience can also serve as a proxy.
But, I would like to suggest that this trend is likely to lead to problems. Specifically, what the AP test is doing is concentrating the school experience. To be one of the top students now requires that you have completed all of your (formerly) high school coursework by the end of your sophomore year so that as a high school junior you can begin your (formerly) college coursework. Where does all the material that was supposed to be taught in high school go? To middle school . . .
At what point do we say, "Enough! The curriculum already has too much in it." Competitive college admissions processes will not readily allow this.
The other interesting question that I see: if AP for all is the trend, why should colleges continue to award credit for what has become normal high school coursework?
In mathematics (my field) there is a growing divide between those who come to college with scores placing them into calculus 2, 3 or even more advanced courses and those who need remedial coursework (even though they have often taken AP calculus classes). If the students who had taken AP calculus and need remediation came well-prepared with the traditional pre-college mathematics curriculum . . . they would be significantly better served. -- Tim Fukawa-Connelly
· A . You raise very interesting issues rarely discussed in this debate. I see your discomfort at the world rushing to new levels, but let's try a thought experiment. It is the 1920s. Only about 25 percent of Americans are graduating from high school. Some reformers (who sound very much like the AP expansionists I admire) say the country needs to build many new high schools because more young people deserve an education to increase their options in life. Would you say they were wrong?
Let's also look at your concern from the point of view of an the individual. You meet a bright African American kid in a DC school. He wants to be a doctor, but his single parent mom cleans houses and nobody in his family has ever gone to college. His high school has no AP or IB courses, or maybe he is not in DC but in a suburban school where the counselor says his Bs and Cs in middle school indicate AP is just not for him. His teachers say, wait until college to try college-level courses.
If you say yes, that's right, you have left him in a trap. If he waits until college he is likely to do poorly in that course, lose confidence and drop out. Like most Americans, I used to think this was because low-income kids just weren't smart enough to handle the material, but then I watched many AP teachers prove me wrong.
Whether a college gives credit or not for a 3 in an AP course is a relatively minor issue to me. The colleges I watch carefully do a good job, sometimes with their own placement tests, deciding which kids should jump to a tougher freshman course. All I want is for that bright kid at the DC school to get to college, and have a chance to survive there. If we don't open up more AP and IB courses for more kids, you will have to turn your back on that student in DC many, many times. And that seems to me a great waste.
· Q. Mr. Mathews, I am a high-school senior at Robinson Secondary School in Fairfax, and I recently read your debate with Mr. Welsh over students enrolled in AP/IB classes. I have been enrolled in AP and IB classes at my school for the past four years and am currently taking four IB courses and one AP course. Now I wonder if you have ever experienced a current IB or AP class at any high school class recently. Your point that "research shows that the intense academic experience offered by AP and other demanding courses increases the chances that high school students will graduate from college" may be accurate, but I feel that you have left several things unconsidered. For example, Mr. Welsh points out that many of his best students are the black girls and that the boys in his classes are more of a hindrance to the learning environment. The reason I take IB and AP classes is because they are more intellectually stimulating and I feel that I am receiving more of a "real life" education than if I were in a standard English or math class. However, I often find that the students who are in my classes for the sake of their transcripts alone hinder my learning experience. Your suggestion that those students be put into "their own AP section," is impractical and unrealistic. Are schools really going to do that so as to provide for those who really want to take their high school experience a little more seriously? They are struggling to keep teachers in the building as it is with low salaries!
Your arguments voice an opinion that values quantity over quality, the very objective of which you are supposedly arguing in favor. The ranking of schools that is based upon the sheer number of students taking AP and IB exams is superficial and does not provide the information it is intended to provide. The reason that IB and AP courses provide experiences that prepare students for college is that the majority of students enrolled are already intent upon getting the best out of their education. The solution is not to force students who are unwilling into a classroom; it is to create a greater amount of accountability and to preserve the quality of these classes. It is the obligation of the public school system to provide a good education to students at every level of need, from students with disabilities who need special accommodations to the driven students who need a rigorous education to prepare them for the challenging tertiary education they plan to pursue.
. . . Personally, I feel that if a student is dedicated, motivated and has an open mind, definitely welcome them into any AP or IB course because the type of education you receive will definitely reward you later in life. But do not force those into advanced placement classes who are there for merely "college benefits." Life is more than a score on some AP test, and learning life lessons in these AP classes is far more valuable than simply getting those college benefits. So much work is required from these classes too that even if the number of students taking the class may be off the charts, nothing has been achieved if the students have not learned anything because they are unwilling to do the work. --Sanna Barrineau
· A. You express the view that I had expected to get from many Fairfax County students of your intelligence and ambition when your county opened up its AP courses in 1998, and the fact that I had not gotten many such complaints from students (teachers are another matter) leads me to think that the harm you say you are suffering is not as great as you think, and that the benefits of opening up the courses are obvious to a lot of your classmates.
First, I would love another e-mail from you giving me more details. Exactly how are these students who are in AP just for a notch on their transcripts hurting your learning process? Do they speak out of turn? Do they tell jokes? Do they throw spitballs? Give me the details and I can respond better to your good question. And answer this question for me: if those people were not in the course, what would have been added to your learning experience that you cannot get while they are there?
Second, are you telling me that getting an AP mark on your transcript is not part of your motivation for taking the course? You would be the rare Fairfax County high schooler if that were true.
Third, put yourself in the place of those students who you would prefer not take AP. In fact, if you are really brave, and you know some of them, why don't you try to have a serious 10-minute conversation with one of them on why they chose to take the course, and what they hope to get out of it? And then, as a part of the exercise, I want you to do this for me: pretend you are that student's counselor, and compose for me what that counselor should say to that student in justifying not letting him take an AP course that he has signed up for. Keep in mind that AP courses do help students get into college. Keep in mind, and this is much more important to me, that AP courses help students exercise the academic muscles that will allow them to survive in college and graduate. Then compose your speech telling this student why he cannot be allowed to have that experience.
I have no problem with dropping AP students down to regular courses if they are not doing the work. That has happened for decades when honors course students failed to take the courses seriously, and I think it would be fine in this case also. My suggestion of an AP course just for them was just an idea, but it seemed to me if classrooms full of male malcontents produce great AP results in some of the schools I have visited, they might also work at Robinson. If a student is conscientiously trying to learn, all the studies and all the interviews I have had with AP teachers indicate he will learn more in the AP course than in a course that has a lower standard.
I agree with Pat Welsh that a regular course with HIM would be a challenging experience. Unfortunately, it is against the law for us to clone Pat, and there are a limited number of teachers that can make a course with a non-AP standard give a student what an AP course can give them. I am not bashing teachers here. I have spent my life writing about scores of the best ones. But you and I both know that not all teachers are the same, and the conditions of a regular course make it difficult for even a great teacher to do her best. Even before AP ever existed, there were regular courses in high school, and in most cases they have been compromises. The standards are relatively low so that kids will pass, that parents will be happy, and that some image of progress will be there. But we all know that a diet of such courses does not prepare students well for college, and we have the college dropout rates to prove it.
I also think Pat is right to want to give kids who do NOT want to go to college, but prefer trade school or some other option, a chance. But I don't think that such choices should be made by 16 year olds until they have had a chance to see how they might perform in a college-level course. Why shut off the option that is going to give them the highest living standards before they have even had a chance to try?
· Q. I enjoyed your back and fourth discussion on AP. However, it seemed to me that neither of you addressed the fundamental issue at the root of greater AP or IB enrollment -- which would be a larger pool of AP/IB ready students in high school.
This effort would not be initiated at the high-school level and, arguably, not even the middle-school level but at the primary-school level.
The word that many seem to avoid in this discussion is tracking, which I deplore on the elementary level as well as (though less so) on the middle-school level.
The problem is that by high school , the basic skill level among students varies so greatly due to years of educational neglect and social promotions that it is near impossible to bring them all together in one class and meet all their needs.
Are there borderline AP/IB qualified high school students that would benefit from the AP/IB experience with or without a passing grade on the end-of-year exam? Of course! But there will be at least as many that are overwhelmed to the point of being intimidated by the mere prospect of college-level work. Furthermore, as you note Pat, the teacher, would be forced to undermine the educational experience of those that are truly ready for AP as a trade-off for keeping the borderline students engaged.
Bottom line: find a way to send more students to high school ready for AP/IB and this discussion would not be necessary. -- Gus Griffin, counselor Central High School Prince George's County
· A. I agree entirely, but I do not think you can create enough pressure to raise standards in the lower grades unless you have a large and welcoming AP or IB program in the high school.
· Q. I was a teacher of honors-level chemistry and AP chemistry in Montgomery County for 15 years. Most of my service was at Churchill High School. I have to agree very strongly with Mr. Welsh regarding AP exams and the effect that Mr. Mathews' scoring system and others like it have on the outcome of students' learning.
Throughout the years, we were required to open the doors of classes at both the honors level and AP level to more and more students and while that happened, the average ability levels in those classes automatically went down. That is logical as there are only so many students within the community and we did not magically change the distribution of brains. At one point, we more than doubled the number of students who were enrolled in AP chemistry classes and honors chemistry classes and it became more difficult to expect the same degree of performance out of the students in the class.
The difficulty as I see it is that we need to challenge the wording we use in descriptions of the various offerings. I absolutely believe that we are in an insidious plight right now where we are neglecting some of the students in so-called "regular" classes and thus making it apparently seem advantageous for more students to go into advanced classes. My solution is to make the regular classes more rigorous than they are now and then still have even more stringent classes that we would call the "advanced placement" classes. If everyone qualifies for "advanced placement," over what is it advanced? The same logic applies to "honors" classes or "gifted" as they are called in Fairfax County.
If I were to give the same tests I gave to my regular students in 1984 at Churchill to the honors students I had to share with other teachers in 2001 ( my last year), I would have found that the younger students would have had a very difficult time passing the earlier tests. And yet, it was assumed that since these students were taking higher-level classes that a grade of C or lower should not be given as they would not get a lower grade in the lower levels and therefore, the low grade would discourage colleges from accepting them. So in essence, we were letting the mere presence of the student sitting in the class somehow be a indicator that he/she would do well in college. It makes no sense to me.
While I agree that we need to challenge more kids, I do not think that we should do it by this artificial and incomplete ranking that Mr. Mathews uses. Mr. Welsh makes the excellent point that the scores on the AP exams have to be considered as well as the fact that the students are just sitting in the classes and taking the tests. -- Linda Albus
· A. I would buy your idea in a second if there were a way to make those slightly below AP courses truly challenging and consistent year to year, and teacher to teacher. But I don't see any way to do that, other than creating another national curriculum and testing system, with outside graders. And I don't think that is likely to happen in any of our lifetimes.
Churchill High is special, and it can maintain pretty good regular courses because of the affluent, well-educated community it serves. But how are you going to produce that high standard for non-AP courses in the vast majority of American high schools? And how are you going to decide who is not worthy of AP at Churchill? That kind of sorting produces other problems. Haven't any of the AP students you thought would be shaky ever surprised you? If so, wouldn't you feel badly if you deprived them of that opportunity?
· Q. Although I've been the director of curriculum and instruction for the Lower Moreland Township (Penn.) School District since 1993, I also taught Advanced Placement for 22 years.
Let me begin by stating at the outset that I agree fully and squarely with your position. Some figures: 30 years ago, Lower Moreland had just 23 percent of its juniors and seniors enrolled in AP, with 81 percent scoring a 3 or better. Twenty years ago, the participation rate had increased to 32 percent, with 80 percent scoring a 3 or better. Last year (2004), our participation rate reached 41 percent with, you guessed it, 81 percent scoring a 3 or better. If 93 percent of this district's graduates continue their education and 85 percent do so at four-year colleges and universities, then it would seem to me that minimally 85 percent to 92 percent of our students should have had at least one AP course upon graduating. These students should have this experience here because this will help them as they move on to college. They are capable of doing this advanced work; indeed, they will need to do so upon graduation.
Please be assured that I am not concerned with the INDEX. Who would turn an entire school upside down, change curricula and channel students into inappropriate courses merely to see his or her name in a single issue of Newsweek? It's not about the numbers, but the academic rigor that these numbers represent. Rigor that teachers, administrators, parents and students can't fudge nor dumb down. The proof is in the participation and in the scores. At Lower Moreland, everyone who takes an AP course also takes the exam. Always. -- Del Hausman
· A. Thanks very much for this interesting and encouraging message. This year, with the help of Newsweek researchers Dan Brillman and Dan Berrett, I found 1,042 public high schools that achieved a Challenge Index rating of 1.000, meaning they gave at least as many college-level tests as they had graduating seniors. That is a 26 percent increase from two years ago, when we last did the Newsweek list. But it is still only about 4 percent of all U.S. public schools. I wish there were more high schools like yours, and more school administrators like you.