Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice

SECRETARY RICE: Well, let's see if Robin gets the reference: "Three yards and a cloud of dust."

MS. WRIGHT: Oh.

(Laughter).

MS. WRIGHT: Oh, that's not fair.

MR. SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: It's all right. You're in good company.

SECRETARY RICE: It's all right. But Ohio State won a lot of championships.

MS. WRIGHT: No, I know.

(Laughter).

MS. WRIGHT: Just rub it in. (Laughter). The editor of the paper is from Ohio State. (Laughter). Okay, back to the specifics.

SECRETARY RICE: Yes.

MS. WRIGHT: Syria: A problem still with Lebanon; the economic boycott still on Iraq; obviously, with the radical groups. What is the United States doing on Syria? Are there messages being sent? Do you plan to take tougher action, go to the Security Council because of violations of 1559?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the first thing that we've done is to, together with France, mobilize international opinion so that the Syrians had to get out of Lebanon. There is no doubt that the Syrians continue to try to influence events in Lebanon in ways that are unseemly, including, I think, the pressure that they're putting on the Lebanese on the border.

We are going to continue to work with the international community to convince the Syrians that this is not an acceptable course. And I think it's -- I don't need to try and forecast where we'll be in a month or six weeks. But this is a daily proposition for me and for others in the administration to continue to press, not just the Syrians who hear our messages publicly but through multiple channels that Syrian behavior is hurting the Palestinians, hurting the Iraqis and hurting the Lebanese, and that they're out of step with what's going on in the international system.

MS. WRIGHT: But is there a moment in which you say, "Enough"? We've sent out, first administration, Powell, Armitage, Burns. We've sent messages, we've -- in united action. The Lebanese are against -- is there a moment in which you say, "Enough is enough," and you do something?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we -- well, I think --

MS. WRIGHT: I mean --

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I think it's not a small accomplishment that Syrian forces are out of Lebanon.

MS. WRIGHT: No, no, no, but it's still in violation of what you called for.

SECRETARY RICE: Yeah, but let's remember that, again, a lot has happened in the period of time since the Hariri assassination. And Syrian forces are out of Lebanon and there is a new government in Lebanon. And now, the next step is to make certain that the Syrians respect Lebanese sovereignty, and so we'll work on that step. But when you say, "Are you going to do something," well, I think Syrian forces out of Lebanon is a good thing.

MS. WRIGHT: And you now believe that all intelligence and military forces are out?

SECRETARY RICE: No, I don't. But I do believe that Syrian military forces are out of Lebanon. There's a verification team that will tell us what other elements there might be there. We still await the investigation into the assassination of Prime Minister Hariri. So there are a number of steps --

MR. KESSLER: Which will probably be out soon, isn't it?

SECRETARY RICE: Fairly soon, but I don't have a date in mind. We don't have a date that we've been given yet.

MR. MCCORMACK: You have about five minutes, guys.

MS. WRIGHT: Uzbekistan. Are you sending an envoy out or someone to see Karimov soon?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we'll see. What we're doing on Uzbekistan is, first of all, we're trying to deal with some of the near-term problems, like the refugee problem. And we're getting good cooperation internationally on that problem.

We also are making pretty clear to the Uzbeks that relations with the United States do depend on the clarity in the investigation into what happened in Andijan. And you know, we'll see whether or not we have somebody go out to talk to talk to the Uzbeks. We're talking to all kinds of people in the neighborhood, not just the Uzbeks. There are other states in that region that have relations with the United States at stake and would like to have good relations with the United States.

MS. WRIGHT: But we still want to hang on to the Uzbek K-2 base.

SECRETARY RICE: Well, of course, the use of the base would be a good thing. But, of course, the United States also does not believe that its strategic interests and its interest in democracy are divisible in some way. And I don't think the Uzbeks are at all confused by that. Don Rumsfeld's in Kryzsgstan today. Or yesterday.

MR. KESSLER: Yesterday.

SECRETARY RICE: Yesterday.

MR. KESSLER: I don't know where he is today.

The six-party talks. Chris Hill's predecessor, Jim Kelly, was always frustrated that he didn't have the flexibility, the negotiating flexibility that he thought he needed. Chris Hill seems to have a fair amount of flexibility to try to push this process forward. What accounts for the difference? What has changed here?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I don't know -- I mean, I've never talked to Jim about what he felt. The important thing is the six-party talks to unite -- keep united about what we're trying to achieve there and I think we've done a lot over the  last several months to do that. It has in part to do with the fact that North Korean behavior after February 10th really created a situation in which the international community, and particularly the other five parties, had to decide that they were going to unite around, not just getting the North back to the table, but getting the North back to the table ready to negotiate. So I think we're in a somewhat different position than we were a couple of tries ago at the six-party talks.

But Chris is a -- we sent Chris there because he's a good, tough negotiator. Chris knows where the principals are. He knows where our concerns are with the North Koreans. And I think everybody trusts him to get this done, if possible, within those constraints. I talk to him every morning. I talked to him this morning at 5:45, yesterday morning at 5:45. That's our appointed time for him to give me a call.

MR. KESSLER: So what did he -- what did he say today?

(Laughter).

SECRETARY RICE: He said that, you know, that there had been some getting everything out on the table that the North Koreans wanted to get out on the table, but that was to be expected, but that he found the atmosphere really businesslike. And that is good because the atmosphere has not always been businesslike. He also has had a series of bilaterals with all the other parties. I think we feel we're very linked up on what we're trying to achieve. And then he'll -- they'll have plenaries starting their time tomorrow. So, yeah, I think he has -- he has flexibility. He's a good negotiator.

MR. KESSLER: You know, there's been some grumbling within the State Department, lower ranks, that you have a very powerful 7th floor staff that tends to push policy down from the upper levels as opposed to letting policy come up. How do you respond to that?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, first of all, I have the most open door policy of anybody you would want to see. You know, I've seen -- I've had desk officers in to talk to me. I've gone -- I go by the bureaus and talk to people and say, you know, thanks for what you're doing.

I have very strong line officers who are my assistant secretaries. That's the real focus for policy in this building. And so if something is going to come up or go down, it's going to go through those assistant secretaries. And I expect the assistant secretaries to decide what can be decided at that level, their level, and what needs to come up for Bob [Zoellick's] attention or Nick [Burns's] attention or my attention.

I can't, in a world like we live in with so much swirling around, take every issue that might come up from every desk in the State Department. I just can't do it. I'm not going to try. I think people understand that now. But I do expect that if there is an assistant secretary who has something that needs to get resolved, that they're going to be in this office within hours. Not days, within hours. Sometimes within minutes. Sometimes immediately after we have staff meetings. So that's the way that I operate. I've always operated very strongly through my line officers, not through my staff. But this staff is not to cut off the assistant secretaries. They are the line of responsibility. So I see David Welch and Chris Hill and Connie Newman and Dan Fried and, you know, Christina Rocca and Sean all the time, and that's the way I expect it to always be.

MS. WRIGHT: Karen Hughes went through a confirmation hearing. We know what you want to do philosophically. Now that she's coming into office, can you describe for us in very specific, tangible ways what programs you expect her to introduce?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I think you probably want to have this conversation with Karen.

MS. WRIGHT: I do.

SECRETARY RICE: When she gets here.

MS. WRIGHT: I do, as a matter of fact. (Laughter.)

SECRETARY RICE: Karen and I have had long discussions about the importance of being able to get our message out and to, you know, to deal with a lot of the myths that are out there and so forth. I really am a big, big proponent of exchange programs and I hope that we're going to have as active as possible exchange programs, specialized exchange programs, civil society, business groups, women's groups. Some of what we're doing but perhaps even more.

I think Karen will try and operationalize the idea that this is a conversation, not a monologue, and to see if there are ways that we can listen better. And so it's not my job to design programs. That's why I got one of the best people, I think, out there to design the programs. But those are some of the things that we'd like to achieve.

MS. WRIGHT: But how? I mean --

SECRETARY RICE: My responsibility is to get the best person to run public diplomacy and to say, "Karen, here are the things we need to achieve." You know when you -- I've managed big organizations before and there are two things that you learn, especially when I was 38-year-old provost. I had never been a department chair before. And suddenly I found myself doing everybody else's job and thought there are two problems with that.

First of all, if you do everybody else's job, you won't do it very well. Secondly, good people won't work for you because people who are very senior and have come from -- I've assembled here a very senior team of people who have had enormous responsibility in their lives. And my responsibility is to say to them, "Here's what we're trying to achieve." And I've tried to assemble a team of people who agree on what it is we're trying to achieve and then to say to those people, "All right, go at it. Let's put together the very best program in the Middle East, David Welch." Or in public diplomacy, Karen Hughes. Or in economic policy when -- if the Senate confirms Josette Shiner. I mean that's how you manage a big organization like this and that's what we're trying to do.

MR. MCCORMACK: The last question, Glenn.

MR. KESSLER: All right. I'm tempted to do a 27-part Japanese question. (Laughter.)

MS. WRIGHT: Yeah, I just -- I want it to be one of those -- one by -- yeah, it can be one of those that the Japanese journalists did, you know.

SECRETARY RICE: Just one other point, though, on the assistant secretaries. The other reason that the assistant secretaries are so important is not just managing what happens here, but these are very senior people who can walk into a foreign minister or a head of state and who are, therefore, an extension of Bob or of me. The fact is I can't be everywhere all the time.

MR. KESSLER: You have been.

(Laughter.)

SECRETARY RICE: It only may seem like that, Glenn, because you're traveling with me. And, you know, you have to have really empowered people who can do these things.

Now, last question.

MR. KESSLER: Well, there are only 10 issues to choose from. What do you say to people who assert, in both the case of Iran and North Korea, that the administration is simply showing greater flexibility because it is convinced neither country will really give up its nuclear programs; and then, when the talks inevitably fail, the administration can return to isolating those countries without being blamed for the failure of those talks?

SECRETARY RICE: I think those people think too much. Would we like to resolve the Iran problem? Would we like to resolve the North Korea problem? Absolutely. And we have a strategy that says that the only way that those get resolved is if you are clear on what it is that you're trying to achieve; that is, you know, an Iran that doesn't have the capability, the technological capability for the fuel cycle, a North Korea that abandons its nuclear weapons programs and ambitions and begins to -- and dismantles them.

But what we put a lot of emphasis on is the diplomacy of that, which is pulling together with the Europeans in the case of the Iranian case, and with the others in the six-party talks in the case of North Korea, to first of all come to a common purpose and then just keep pressing that common purpose forward until, eventually, North Korea or Iran realize that there's no out.

You know, I do think that in -- when we first -- when I first went to Europe, I found that somehow we'd gotten into a position where it was the United States that was the problem in the Iranian situation, and so you actually had a strange situation in which the Iranians -- in which the Europeans were trying to broker between the United States and Iran. That was not a good place to be.

And so through that trip and then the president's trip to Europe and then my return trip to Europe, we worked hard to come to a common position so that we could leave Iran effectively no way out except to go through the EU-3 talks. That's what diplomacy is really all about and that's how I spend most of my time in trying to solve a problem is to try and create a circumstance in which that's the only course for a Syria or an Iran or a North Korea. Because when one of those states can get into a situation where it's a problem between the United States and Iran, or the United States and North Korea, or the United States and Syria, then the possibility of trying to cherry-pick a little bit from this side, a little bit from that side, exists. That's not where you want to be.

Somebody said that, you know, the art of diplomacy is getting everybody to the place that your policies are their policies. Well, some of diplomacy is finding a place where your policies and their policies come together. And I think that's what we've been spending a lot of time on.

MR. KESSLER: So how did the U.S. get in that place that you found when you went to Europe? Just, I do want to understand that. I mean, you were kind of part of the group --

SECRETARY RICE: Yeah, I don't know when. Over time, that's -- it had eroded to that place. And sometimes that happens and then you have to go back and fix it.

MS. WRIGHT: One last -- just one question. Is there anything that you think is important in terms of what's happening right now that you'd like to use The Washington Post to make clear a position or a development?

SECRETARY RICE: No, but I'll call you if there is.

MS. WRIGHT: Promise?

(Laughter.)

SECRETARY RICE: Great.

MR. KESSLER: Thanks so much.