A Conversation With John Kerry

The purpose of the deployment of the troops is to get the weapons of mass destruction under control. If at the last moment something indicates to you either there aren't weapons of mass destruction or you have a way to get them under control, you don't use the troops and you don't have to. I mean, those are the tough judgments. Look, what are you going to do? "Oh, gee. We're locked in. We don't have sufficient evidence but I'm going to send this kid from Illinois to die anyway?"

ON DOUBTS

Can a president afford to have doubt in a time of war?

Well, you better have your doubts before the war. And you better explore every doubt before the war. But once you've committed, you better not have a doubt. You better know what you're doing and you better be committed to winning and do everything in your power to do that.

Do you think they had a process of doubt?

No. Clearly they didn't, and that's a reflection of the president.

But Bush says, when I asked him earlier, I said, "You never get everyone to agree on the use of force."

I'm not looking for everybody's agreement. You're never going to get everybody to agree.

What are you looking for?

What I'm looking for is the broadest possible vetting and examination. And let the debate take place in front of me and I'll make my judgment. But nobody will have any doubt that every question was asked. Nobody will have any doubt that the alternative theories were examined, that history was examined, that culture was examined, religion was understood, that the dynamics of the region were explored, that people who've lived there have been inquired of. When I get to that decision I can explain it and there's only one rationale, not a whole bunch of shifting rationales. That's the way you take a nation to war.

ON HISTORY'S VERDICT

I asked Bush in December '03, "How do you think history's going to judge your war?" And that's when he said, "We don't know. We won't know. We'll all be dead."

I think history nowadays judges things much more rapidly, number one. And number two, certain things lend themselves to pretty rapid judgment. Vietnam is an example of that. . . . And history is going to judge this very, very, very rapidly, I think.

And severely?

I think history is going to be very, very tough on not just the way the war has been managed, but on the way in which the decision to go to war was carried out. It's going to be a low moment . . . in the presidency in history.