Charles Murigande, Rwandan Foreign Minister

Q: So how do you deal with the problem of the FLDR?

A: We think that a level of forceful disarmament must be applied. We need to break the grip of the commanders. The problem is, who should apply that force? Who should carry out this forceful disarmament?

We contemplated MONUC . . . but the U.N. has been categorical that they will not give that mandate to MONUC. Another option is Congo, because they have the legitimacy and duty to do it. . . . But the problem is the Congolese army is not yet very strong, not very well trained, or very well motivated to do it.

Another option is for Congo, Rwanda, Burundi and Uganda to mount a joint operation against the forces. But there is an unwillingness by Congo to allow that. They are saying the people of Congo are not yet at the psychological point to allow Rwanda or neighboring countries into their territory. Option four is that of appealing to friendly [non-bordering] countries to support the Congolese army. This last option is most feasible if the government is willing. The Congolese do not reject the option outright but they are not forcefully pursuing it. This option is viable in the short and medium term.

Q: What is Rwanda's relationship to Laurent Nkunda, [a renegade Congolese general]?

A: Rwanda has no relationship with Nkunda. In 1994, when the genocidal forces came to eastern Congo, they did not abandon their genocidal ideology.

They began a campaign of ethnic cleansing, killing Tutsis in North Kivu including the parents of Laurent Nkunda. . . . As long as these ex-FAR are around, [the Tutsis] have nowhere to go unless they can defend themselves. And that led to Nkunda. And if you look at what caused Nkunda, the problem was when he refused to be deployed. He said, how can I leave when my people are threatened? He said, no, I can't be deployed. He said, I will be in the army if I am deployed here, where my people are threatened. . . . So that's the problem.

Of course because Nkunda is [a speaker of the Rwandan language] and a Tutsi, it is easy for people who do not do a deep analysis to conclude that there's no way Rwanda could not be sympathetic to his case. And then they conclude there's a relationship between Rwanda and Nkunda. Rwanda cannot establish a relationship with such a person, but we can understand why Nkunda is Nkunda. We can understand his argument. Because at least he and the people he is with would be willing to die to protect their people. Which is not the case with everyone. . . . The major root cause of instability in eastern Congo is the ex-FAR. It is the inaction and irresponsibility of the international community that has created this mess here.

The Congolese government seems to be saying that Nkunda is the problem. They seem to be building the case against him.

This is a case of lack of logic, lack of fairness. This is someone who says, I'm here because these forces kill my people. Please, deal with these forces. . . . But instead of dealing with what caused him to be what he is today, you want to deal with him. It's like saying, if we didn't have these Tutsis, the ex-FAR would not have people to kill. It is an ugly way of seeing things. But, let's hope that which is just will prevail.

Q: To what extent has this situation with Nkunda been a source of tension between Rwanda and Congo?

A: It hasn't been a source of tension, because, you see, Congo is a sovereign country. It is free to choose its own policy. However, in our dealings with them, as a neighbor, as a country that wants to be friendly, we offer friendly advice. Like the need to resolve the Nkunda problem with a political solution, rather than a military solution, which would come at a great cost.

There is an argument that says a sovereign country cannot accept a rebellion. But I would simply respond by saying a sovereign country should be more concerned about the presence of a foreign force.

Q:What about the suggestion some analysts have made, that the Congolese army might use the ex-FAR to attack Nkunda . . . ?

A: A lot of people are worried that as has happened in the past, the government forces might link up with the ex-FAR and I know the ex-FAR would not be unhappy with an opportunity to kill Tutsis. If that happens, that will start worrying us seriously. And that is the message we have been giving. . . . That might be a disaster. Because we are also able to fight.

--Stephanie McCrummen