Giuliani Praises Kerik's Crime Results

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Rudy Giuliani said Monday that if his achievements as president are as good as the crime-reduction results of his New York police commissioner, a man now under criminal investigation himself, "this country will be in great shape."

Giuliani, in an interview with The Associated Press, acknowledged mistakes by Bernard Kerik, who was police commissioner when Giuliani was mayor. But he said crime reduction for the city was more important.

Kerik, whom Giuliani pushed to head the federal Department of Homeland Security, is under investigation on what could be multiple felony charges. Giuliani said he hadn't spoken to his friend and one-time business partner recently and had no idea what implication a Kerik indictment or plea deal could have on his presidential campaign.

"I have no idea what's going to happen, first of all, nor do I have any idea what he's going to do," the Republican contender said.

Giuliani has accepted responsibility for his role in Kerik's embarrassing 2004 withdrawal as President Bush's Homeland Security nominee after revelation of tax problems. Ethics questions and corruption allegations also have swirled around Kerik. But the former New York mayor said the results of the commissioner's time in New York far outweigh isolated incidences.

"Bernie Kerik worked for me while I was mayor of New York City. There were mistakes made with Bernie Kerik. But what's the ultimate result for the people of New York City? The ultimate result for the people of New York City was a 74 percent reduction in shootings, a 60 percent reduction in crime, a correction program that went from being one of the worst in the country to one that was on '60 Minutes' as the best in the country, 90 percent reduction of violence in the jails."

"Sure, there were issues, but if I have the same degree of success and failure as president of the United States, this country will be in great shape," Giuliani said.

On another controversial topic, Giuliani wouldn't rule out the use of interrogation procedure known as waterboarding that many consider torture.

"If you take a simplistic position on it, you're probably irresponsible," Giuliani said. "I should not take a position on waterboarding until I know precisely what we're talking about. If we're talking about what the media says constitutes waterboarding, I have said that I think that's repulsive. But I've also said that I have not been briefed on precisely what we do. I would want to keep an open mind until I heard that."

As for Kerik, Giuliani said, "It was a mistake not checking him out as thoroughly as I should have. ... I don't like surprises. I don't like to find out things that I haven't found out myself. Not that it hasn't happened to me before. But I try to tighten up the whole thing and make sure we do a better job in the future."

Federal prosecutors in New York have spent more than a year pursuing criminal charges against Kerik, reportedly including bribery, tax evasion, obstruction of justice, providing false information and conspiracy to eavesdrop. Kerik rejected a plea deal in the spring, but meetings have continued.

"I made mistakes. I will continue to make mistakes," Giuliani said. "But what are the results? What kind of results do I get? What Bernie Kerik did wrong did not implicate what the results were for the public. What he did wrong, he's going to have to pay for."