A CONVERSATION WITH HAMID KARZAI

The overall strategy is to try to get rid of poppies by improving the overall Afghan economy, by bringing better prosperity to the Afghan people, by eradicating poppies and by replacing it with other alternatives. But how to bring this about is something that we have all to agree about. In short, opium came to Afghanistan because of the desperation of the Afghan people. Thirty years ago, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, when we began to fight them, no Afghan family was sure if they were going to stay in their own house the next day or not, if they were going to be in their country the next day or not -- if they were going to be alive the next day or not. So for them the easiest way was to have a cash crop. And opium was promoted from outside the Afghan borders. The mafia came in and told the people that this is a cash crop: "Grow it, and we'll pay you."

I know people -- men -- who have destroyed their pomegranate orchards to replace them with poppies. Now no family would do that -- ever -- unless they are absolutely in limbo about the future. And I know people, families, who have destroyed their vineyards in order to replace them with poppies because they were not sure of their tomorrow. The more Afghanistan is sure of its tomorrow, the more the people have hope for the future of the country and its prosperity and stability, the higher will be our achievement in eradicating poppies, as has already been demonstrated in parts of the country.

But don't people need a substitute?

When there is stability and prosperity, then that is the substitute.

But how do you get there?

By what we are already doing. Fighting terrorism, bringing the rule of law, improving governance and having a better economy. Whatever it takes to have a society that is governed by the rule of law and is at peace.

How do you think you're doing with that ambition?

Well, we've taken magnificently strong steps. We have children going to school, we have our highways being rebuilt, we have our health services improving, we have our economy improving, we have everything right. The only thing that we have to get right is an effective fight against terrorism. With that achievement, when it comes, Afghanistan will move much faster in the direction of a proper economy, away from a criminal economy, into a legitimate livelihood.

When you talked to President Musharraf, did you say, "Okay, what are you going to do about the terrorist bases in Pakistan?"

We do see eye-to-eye more than before on this question.

Why is that?

Because of the glaring blow that we have.