Interview of the President by Mort Kondracke

And we'll see whether Congress heeds the call to come up with your solutions. I'm interested to see how they think they can solve the issue.

Q You told Bret Baier the other day that you were not able to be the uniter -- not a divider -- that you wanted to be. So what happened?

THE PRESIDENT: I think -- first of all, the biggest disappointment for me has not been able to establish the -- you know, the kind of the -- set those common goals that we were able to do in Texas.

Q Why not?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think the town is just very polarized right now. And I have actually -- I've looked back at history and looked at other periods; it's been pretty polarized in the past too. I mean, I remind people that -- you know, they say, gosh, it's been a tough presidency and all that business. And I said, nothing compared to Abraham Lincoln -- which was one polarized time. So the process itself, the political process itself, tends to create polarization.

But we have found common ground. You know, I know the story line has divided Washington, but if you think about it, we have found common ground. We found common ground in fighting the terrorists. We have debates over certain aspects of it, but most members understand that we've got to have good front lines here in America to protect America from attack.

We'll get a FISA bill, which is a sign of -- you know, there's enough common ground to recognize these professionals need the tools. We got tax cuts. You've got to understand on the tax cut issue, there's a philosophical difference in Washington on money. I mean, I view it that the Democrats want more money so they can spend more money. I don't believe you raise taxes to balance a budget -- the temptation is going to be too big to spend that money. And the job of the President, if you're a fiscal conservative person, is to lean-out the process, is to be the person that says, no, you can't have more money, because it's not going to go to balancing the budget.

Secondly, I'm a supply-sider. There's a big philosophical divide on supply-siders. People expect -- you know, there's one thing to compromise on pieces of legislation to get something done. It's another thing to compromise on principle -- which I have refused to do. People say, oh, you must be a uniter by compromising your beliefs. There are certain things on which I will not compromise. And I don't see how you can be President if you don't stand strong on your principles. There's too much incoming, there's too many complicated decisions, too much flattery, too much criticism, too many polls, too many focus groups. And the President has to say: Here is the ground on which I stand.

And one of the places I made my stand is what I said last night in this speech: We trust you, and we empower you with more of your own money. And on foreign policy, it is: I truly believe there's an Almighty, and a gift of that Almighty to every man, woman and child is liberty. That's what I believe. And history has proven me correct.

I fully recognize some don't agree with that. They say, well, you know, okay, some of us will be free, the others are not going to free; let's just make sure we have stability. The problem with that is, is it doesn't, in my judgment, understand the nature of the world in which we live, because I see us engaged in an ideological struggle, the likes of which we have faced before. The difference this time is that an enemy kills the innocent through suicides and asymmetrical warfare to achieve their objectives. But the struggle is the same. And the outcome will be the same if we do not lose faith in the transformative power of liberty. And that's what I talked about last night.

Now, is that a unifying message? Not really, because some people don't agree with it. But I have tried to speak in -- you know, what I try to do in my speeches -- if you go back and look at them -- is, mine is not a laundry list of this, that and the other. Mine is an attempt to get Congress to focus on big ideas based upon a philosophy. And two years ago, I think it was, I gave a speech warning the country about isolationism and protectionism.

So I view that opportunity to speak to the country about, you know, the big ideas we're facing, and how Americans must lead. Inherent in my remarks is that we must be confident in what we stand for, and not feel like we have to subsume our interests, our beliefs, in order to reach kind of unanimity in the world. Well, that also applies at home. And so people say, yes, you can unify -- but I will not unify if I have to compromise my beliefs.

Q Do you think that the United States is --

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you for letting me go on and on.

Q No, this is music to my ears. You state some things that make for a very good interview. (Laughter.)

Do you think that the United States is a stronger country than when you found it? And I would point out that our standing in the world -- and I grant, it's polls -- but is down in a lot of countries because of the freedom agenda, I suppose, but -- and Iraq war. And we're deeper in debt than we were before -- I mean, the national debt is bigger than we were before. And our debt to foreigners is bigger than it was before. So are we a stronger country?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, absolutely we are stronger. Absolutely. We're stronger because our military is stronger, and our military is becoming modern. We're stronger because we recognize the threats of the 21st century, and are dealing with them. We're stronger because we've added jobs; more Americans are working. We're stronger because real wages are up. We're stronger because productivity is strong. We're stronger because we're still a flexible economy with a strong entrepreneurial spirit. We have more debt, but we've also got more assets. We're stronger because America is in the lead, using its influence.

I frankly don't care what the opinion polls say. My attitude is, you can make a poll really say anything you want it to be. But when it comes to the world recognizing that America must play a constructive, leading role, I think you'll find in capital after capital they hope America does stay engaged. And when it comes to, where do you want to live, many people say, I'd like to be in America.

And so, yes, I say people respect America and what we stand for. Sometimes they don't like the President. No question the Iraq war -- no question they don't like the Iraq war. Nobody likes war. And approval ratings on war are not necessarily an accurate reflection about people's admiration for America. When Abraham Lincoln was President, if they had approval ratings, I bet the approval rating would be extremely low because of the war. On the other hand, when people think about what he stood for, the principles on which he stood, it was inspiring. And America inspires others because we believe in human rights and human dignity and freedom to worship.

And the great ideological struggle that's playing out, that's causing angst in the rest of the world, is that there are people willing to murder because of those principles.

Q Is there a conflict between your freedom agenda and your support for the process in Pakistan, where Musharraf probably is going to -- and his party are probably going to run a rigged election?

THE PRESIDENT: I don't think so. I hope not. I've certainly talked to him about not rigging the election. No, we believe that there ought to be open and fair elections, and have always said that. We believe that it's in the best course of Pakistan that they address the extremists by firm action, on the one hand, and making sure that people have an opportunity to express themselves in the ballot box on the other.

Morton, one of the things that's interesting about the freedom agenda is that democracies evolve over time based upon histories and traditions of the country. We cannot expect that every nation, all of a sudden, is going to be a flourishing democracy the way we want it to be. What we should expect is that institutions develop where peoples are given a chance to vote. The role of America ought to be, yes we support elections. I strongly supported the elections in the Palestinian Territories, because elections are defining moments, and they create clarity. They help people see the truth. And the truth was, in the Palestinian election, was that people were sick of the corrupt Arafat regime, and they wanted better health and better education. And Hamas hasn't delivered it -- which provides Abbas, who wants to live side-by-side with Israel in peace, an opportunity.

So America can seize on this moment by saying, let's get a state defined for everybody to see, to give these people something to be for, and let's help build institutions. And Pakistan -- the institutions are deeper-rooted in Pakistan than they are in other parts of the world. They've got a very active press, they've got active campaigning. But the thing that has complicated it is not Musharraf, but the murderers who wreak havoc on Pakistan democracy trying to create this kind of -- and this is the tactics, create fear, anxiety and --

Q But do you think Musharraf is doing everything that he can to deal with both the internal and the Taliban threat to -- you know, Karzai constantly complains that --

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, he does.

Q -- he's not helping anything.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think Karzai's tone on Musharraf has changed somewhat. I think President Musharraf understands the threat to his country and to his self, personally. We've got a very close relationship with him when it comes to fighting off these terrorists. And I can understand why he says -- when people out of America say, we're going to invade you, I can understand why he says, I'm concerned about that. It's a sovereign country. On the other hand, I know -- I talk to him quite frequently, I know that he wants to cooperate. I know that he's interested in taking care of these extremists. And I firmly believe -- and I have no evidence to the contrary that he's going to rig the elections; quite the contrary, he has told me that wants to have free and fair elections.

Q Is it true that he rebuffed us on intelligence cooperation in the tribal areas?

THE PRESIDENT: Not as far as I'm concerned.

Q Because there was a story in The New York Times yesterday that Hayden and --

THE PRESIDENT: I wouldn't necessarily believe everything you read in there.

Q Last foreign policy question, or one more foreign policy question. At the rate things are going, is not -- are you not going to leave office with Iran on its way to getting a nuclear weapon, insofar as the international sanctions don't seem to be working?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, 12 months is a long time. Secondly, what is definitely going to happen is that there is going to be a framework for the world to pressure the Iranians. Condi just came back from a successful European trip, where once again it looks like we're going to get the Europeans, as well as Russia and China, to send another message to the Iranians.

Whether or not it's working or not, that's an interesting question. There is evidence that the Iranian economy is not flourishing; the poor people have gotten poorer; that there's economic depravation. And one part of our strategy, of course, is to continue their isolation and continue to pressure, so that hopefully somebody rational shows up and says, enough is enough, therefore it's not worth it. And other than that, it's all I feel comfortable commenting on, except to remind you that all options are on the table.

MR. GILLESPIE: I think the President has only got time for one more, because the chopper is for him.

THE PRESIDENT: That's what you get when you come to a long-winded --

Q I understand. If the Israelis come to you and say, Mr. President, we've got to deal with this threat, what are you going to say?

THE PRESIDENT: I say we are dealing with the threat. And I will remind them what I said -- I was asked that very question in Jerusalem. My answer was, we're working on this issue every day. We recognize there's a threat. Part of the issue was whether or not I even recognize there's a threat is a result of recent -- an intelligence issue. And I did confirm how seriously we take this issue. And they confirmed to me how seriously they take it.

Q Exactly. And in order for them to attack, do another Osirak, if they wanted to do it, they presumably would have to get our permission.

THE PRESIDENT: To the extent that we're talking -- I'm not going to comment on any of the wild speculation that's going on about how this issue should be dealt with.

Q Okay, good. Thank you very much.

END, 10:08 A.M. EST