Hamilton Jordan: Looking Back

A. We came up here kind of cocky, that's right.

Q. Another thing was that when you were made chief of staff, that was said to be the first time you really got with the congressional leaders. How come for two years there had been so little contact with the Hill?

A. Well, the initial reason was that we thought and I don't think incorrectly -- that if everybody on the Hill thought they could call me and Jody Powell -- you know people test you at first -- to get something out of the department or get an appointment with the president, it was going to undermine our congressional liaison. So, particularly the first six or eight months, we'd say: well, you'll need to talk to Frank Moore.

This stuff about my never returning telephone calls to members of Congress is just not true. I'm sure there were some I missed, but I've got a goodly number of people there I'm friendly with. During the campaign, I had six or eight meetings over at Jim Free's [congressional liaison office] house for 20 or 30 members of Congress. But I never saw that as my purpose or function, to be dealing with the Hill.

But if I had to do all over again, I would have from the outset defined better what I was going to do and not going to do, and not been perceived as disdainful of Congress. I don't want to sound like I'm making excuses, but the thing of my not returning calls and not having relationships with people, I feel it's exaggerated. And a lot of it is like this stuff about Tip O'Neill -- not giving him inaugural seats and I supposedly called him and asked if he wanted him money back. I never had that kind of conversation with the speaker.

Q. But if you wanted to help Jimmy Carter succeed. . .

A. That was my purpose in coming here. I didn't expect Washington to changed and become like us, but neither did I think all of us had to change and be like Washington. There are a lot of things about this city that are interesting and attractive, but you won't find the answers to most of this nation's problems by gaining a concensus of what people think inside the Beltway. There's a very cautious attitude politically, there's a compromising attitude politically and there's a terrible tendency to procrastinate in terms of dealing with the country's problems. If you look at the things that I would say are the hallmarks of the Carter years, they are examples of where Carter has gone against the grain and gone against conventional wisdom.

If you'd asked 10 people on the Hill and 10 people in the political community and the media, when do you normalize relations with China, they'd say, well, you do that in the second term. If you asked them whether we consummate a Panama Canal treaty, everybody will say, hell, no, that's unpopular. If you ask them: to keep the Middle East peace thing from going down the tube, do you risk having the president dash off to Israel and Egypt to try to hold it together, they'd say, hell, no. If you'd asked the Democrats, do you deregulate natural gas and decontrol oil prices, they'd say no. They'd give you good political reasons not to do it.

To the extent we have been successful, and I think we have when measured against the country's problems, it's because Carter brought an unconventional attitude to Washington.

Q. Were you ever scared during this time? Did you ever look up and think, my God, what am I, Hamilton Jordan, doing here? y

A. When I was 23, 24 years old, I managed Carter's gubernatorial campaign. When I was 25 years old, I was the governor's chief of staff, and then I went from there to run his national campaign. So I developed, deserved or not, a confidence about myself and a knowledge of my strengths and weaknesses. When I got here, there were times when I pinched myself, but I was never intimidated by the responsibility or by being in the White House or by being the chief of staff. Of course, that related to this myth about all the power I have. Things in this city are exaggerated.

You know, I never presented myself as -- I am not -- a policy person. That's not to say I don't have things that I believe deeply in. I was qualified when I got here to do things I was called upon to do, which was to advise the president, coordinate and so forth.