IN CONVERSATION . . .

XG: At the same time, the great works of Chinese literature were by artists who wrote critically from outside the system. These are the works that have lasting value.

Traditionally, American readers have had some difficulty in understanding the Chinese mentality. "Inscrutable" is the old slur that used to be applied. Why do you suppose that is?

MJ: The Chinese have many sides to them, at least three or four. They will show one face when having a drink in the bar, another at another time. It's not duplicity, it's many-sidedness, a recognition that the world is not black and white, as Americans prefer to think.

Is it a good thing for a

writer to have this multi-dimensionality?

XG: It depends on who you are. It can be a powerful thing for one artist, but for other artists it can damage and kill them. Dishonesty can become part of their inner personality.

Neither of you were destined

to be dissidents. In your youth, Ma Jian, you painted propaganda posters for the government, the same job

done by your father, Xiaolu

Guo. When did you become aware that there were issues you needed to speak out against?

MJ: When I went to Tibet in 1985, I was struck by the disparity between propaganda and reality. There were Chinese soldiers with machine guns behind the plants. I came to understand that Tibetans live in a daily prison. The Chinese are restoring many monasteries, it is true, but they themselves destroyed them.

XG: My background is Muslim minority so that already gave me insight.