Transcript of Interview

Actually, as you know, the American policy toward mainland China and Taiwan [has] actually gone through seven presidents without change, and next year, 2009, will mark the 30th anniversary of the Taiwan Relations Act, which has provided a very solid foundation for the two sides, so I expect to see the continuation of the policy. Maybe conducted in a different style, but the essence will be the same.

Q: Will closer China ties for Taiwan lead in the long term to fewer arms purchases from Washington?

A: No I don't think so. I think we certainly would like to see closer ties with Washington and Beijing and also between Beijing and Taipei, and Taipei and Washington. I think triangular relations could actually benefit from the improvement of bilateral relations. This is why at the end of last July, when President Bush was interviewed in the White House, I'm very pleased with the state of relations between mainland China and Taiwan. I think that shows the administration generally would like to see the status quo continue.

When we were able to reduce tension in this part of the world, I think no country will be unhappy about that, particularly the United States, when they are very much troubled by Iraq, Iran and even the Korean Peninsula. Now the flashpoint in [the] Taiwan Strait has almost been defused, and this is something that everybody would like to see. I have received quite a lot of foreign visitors, almost everyone praised what we have done.

Q: Were Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie's remarks [reported Monday, calling for an end to such sales] then just boilerplate?

A: I think they understand that what we are getting in arms from the United States are for defensive purposes, and it is necessary for Taiwan's defense, and the two sides have exercised restraint over the Taiwan Strait in the last decades, and they understand. Of course, as a matter of policy they will continue to do that.

Q: If Taiwanese are increasingly feeling less and less "Chinese," and thousands are protesting the KMT [or ruling Nationalist Party] getting too close to China, how will you unify the populace or bring around opponents or nativists so that you can politically accomplish your agenda?

A: Of course there are some people in Taiwan who still attach importance to the birthplace of a person or where their parents come from, but as I said, this is only a small portion of the population.

Take my case for example. My parents came from Hunan, mainland China, and I was born in Hong Kong, I wasn't even born here. I was actually conceived here before my parents went to Hong Kong. But still I was elected with 58.5 percent of the votes. And why people decided to choose someone like me? That reflects that Taiwanese democracy is getting more mature. They look at the candidate's quality instead of their birthplace. No matter whether you call yourself Chinese, Taiwanese or half-Chinese, half Taiwanese, doesn't matter. In other words, what they want is a clean government, is a dynamic economy and a harmonious society and peaceful cross-strait relations. This is what they want. That is why they won't attach as much importance to your provincial origin as a decisive factor in a choice of candidates. I think this is good.

Of course, we have made a lot of efforts to win this support. I spend a lot of time in the countryside, talking to farmers. Last year I spent almost a year traveling, staying in some cases for more than two weeks in a given county to understand people's problems. I gradually found that there are five qualities of Taiwanese people, upright, friendly, very industrious and also very forward-looking, very pragmatic, and those qualities become the basis of consensus in Taiwan. On one hand, they don't want to be reunited with the Chinese mainland at the moment. But they don't want to go for de jure independence either. In other words, they care that we are the Republic of Taiwan, they want to maintain the status quo, keep the options open, but at the same time develop a close relationship with the mainland. They're very, very pragmatic, they're great businessmen, they create a lot of business opportunities here and on the Chinese mainland.

So I think this is what Taiwan, why Taiwan is so competitive in many things. And I think as a president of this country, I certainly want to keep all these good qualities and to develop Taiwan into not just a prosperous but also a very respectable country. That is why I keep saying I want to become a peacemaker, not a troublemaker. By doing what I have done ,people understand this is what Taiwan is heading for.

Some people take some issues to the streets. Well, this happens all the time in Taiwan, because this is such a free country. When I was mayor of Taipei, for instance, in one occasion we have half a million people demonstrating against [the] then-president, President Chen Shui-bian, for corruption. Certainly, as a matter of conviction, I support all anti-corruption efforts, but on the other hand, I have to keep order in a democratic society. If they violate the law, I also have to enforce the law.

For those who don't like me and want to criticize me and apply for permission to demonstrate [at] my office, the City Hall, I say fine. The police gave them the permission, so they set up a tent over there on the sidewalk and play audiotapes which I can hear for three days. I let them do it. Why? Because I'm a strong believer of freedom of expression. I disagree with every point they make, but I let them speak, this is the fundamental idea of a democratic society and I as mayor have practiced that. I made Taipei city the freest place to have demonstrations, you could do that for 24 hours a day. That's exactly what the red shirt army did two years ago. Only by doing that will people understand what freedom of expression is.

I keep telling them that. Listen, freedom of expression, including the freedom to have assemblies and parades, is not to demonstrate your force, it's to let people understand your view and as a result [they] will be influenced by you. You are not here to intimidate people, that's not the right way. So through those processes, as a lawyer, as someone who very much respects and abides by the constitution, I want to give people the correct information about what a liberal democracy really means.

I think we're doing a great job in this area. I'm sure you're an ethnic Chinese, you understand that in a traditional Chinese society, those ideas are not permitted. But now here in Taiwan, they are.

Q: The recent protests turned so violent, people on the mainland and elsewhere looked at that and said it was crazy --

A: That's really regrettable. We do have a small proportion of people who sometimes go beyond the limits of law. For instance, the tight security when Chen Yunlin came here was actually prompted by two incidents before that. The vice president of ARATS came here a week before Chen Yunlin did, but he was actually jostled down to the floor and hurt although it was not seriously. And the second time, just a day before Chen Yunlin came, some [Democratic Progressive Party, an opposition party] members of Taipei City Council even announced that they will give cash awards to people who throw eggs at Chen Yunlin and depending on the place they hit, they will give different cash rewards.

So that has made the police nervous, so as a result the security was very tight. But still when the police had clashes with the people, altogether 172 police were injured compared to less than 30 demonstrators. But when the police in some cases hit the wrong guy, the interior minister and the police commissioner went to the home of that person, apologized and promised to take care of their medical bills -- actually, they did it twice. So by and large, I think the police were able to maintain order. But there are individual cases where people were hurt as a result of the over-use of force. That is something that could be reviewed and corrected, but by and large I think the people of Taiwan are basically freedom-loving and peaceful. The violence demonstrated during Chen Yunlin's visit should be considered the exception rather than the rule.

Q: To outsiders or to critics, how can a democratic legal system hold someone for up to four months without charge?

A: Pretrial detention is not unusual. Beginning in 1984, the United States started to have pretrial detention for some criminals who committed a felony or had a possibility to escape or the possibility to destroy evidence or have other potential problems. They could be subjected to pretrial detention, so this was not only used [for] DPP members.

A second misunderstanding is why in the last couple of months, people investigated or indicted were all DPP members. This was not the case. Just yesterday, a KMT legislator was indicted and was sentenced to 15 years for corruption. In the last eight years, not including yesterday's case, there were altogether 57 cases. Twenty-three are KMT, 19 DPP, 10 independent and five PFP, People First Party. So for the 23 KMT, either cabinet ministers, legislators or county or city magistrates or mayors -- so there are actually more KMT than DPP. But the DPP members who are indicted or investigated, most of them fall in the last year or so. Why, because they were in power for eight years. When you investigate a corruption case, certainly they will concentrate on people in power.

Actually, I was indicted, as well, a year ago, as I told you. And I'm not a DPP member. But I was acquitted. Second, the former president, his case was actually indicted two years ago, but he was not indicted because he's protected by the constitutional immunity, so his case was started again during the inauguration, May 20th, when he stepped down as president. The prosecutor general who is investigating him was actually nominated by him two years ago. So it will be very difficult to say this is a persecution on the part of the KMT. I [have been] in power for slightly more than six months, so we haven't done anything regarding those old criminal cases. These were all started prior to our inauguration.

Also, as a lawyer and as a person who very much respects the constitution and the separation of power[s], I never interfere in any judicial cases, and I told the director of the investigation bureau, which is the counterpart of the FBI, and also the police commissioner that if you find anything, any evidence of crime relating to either myself or members of my family, please don't let me know. Go tell the prosecutor. I'm not supposed to know things like that. You report to me only on information intelligence regarding national security not criminalities.

I'm sure if you follow the news events in Taiwan, you will know that the former chief of the investigation bureau leaked information of money laundering to the president, and after that they have laundered money as a result, so the director of the investigation bureau was indicted and in the trial by the district court, was sentenced for 10 years. He actually retired in July, two months after I was inaugurated.

So as a matter of practice, they came here to report to me once a month, so I met him twice before he retired, so I didn't really expect that he would do things like that -- he gathered criminal information about the president and actually he leaked to the president. That is why I asked the investigative bureau: Never tell me anything like that. And I'm very confident there won't be such things.

When I was inaugurated my wife actually got early retirement because she didn't want to do anything that might have a conflict of interest. She also asked her brother to quit his job because his company has some business dealings with state-run corporations here. I also asked my elder sister to quit her job, so I always joke that in my family, while I am employed, three people lost their jobs. I just want to get rid of these potential conflict of interests.

My concept of a good president, first of all, [he] has to lead a clean government, and I attach a lot of importance to that. Once in a while I will remind the cabinet ministers to be clean is very important. In an economic downturn, people are rather unhappy with the economy, but if they have a corrupt president or a corrupt cabinet, they will probably choose something very drastic. So I keep telling them that at least you have to remain clean. So this is what my administration will practice for a long time to come.

Q: Is there anything I've failed to ask you, especially as it relates to the current economy?

A: I think the economy, the corruption investigations, actually these days fill the media. But it's very difficult to change the economic reality when we are so much affected by your financial tsunami. Fortunately we were able to keep the banking system sound. As you know, we were the first country in Asia to announce that all the bank deposits were protected, with no limits. That was made in early October, actually [made] everybody feel much relieved, and ever since then our banking system became quite stable.

We don't have any bankruptcies, even one banking holding company acquired the subsidiary of ING, the Dutch insurance company. That was pretty interesting. We are now actually taking the advice of [Paul] Krugman, the Nobel [economics] laureate, that we should get fiscal, so a large infrastructure project, the distribution of consumer vouchers and a large plan to provide up to 340,000 jobs in a period of four years, so we hope by the massive infusion of resources we could make the downturn shorter.

Hopefully we will see some signs of revitalization in the later part of next year. But that requires a lot of efforts and also a lot of luck.