Transcript: Bob Woodward Interviews Robert McNamara

Below is a transcript of portions of an interview The Post's Bob Woodward conducted with former secretary of defense Robert McNamara on Aug. 7, 2007.

McNamara: This is one of the problems... The chiefs never really discussed the military plan for Vietnam. I don't think you'll find any record, secret or otherwise, of the chiefs' critical analysis of the military plans in Vietnam. And that was a very serious deficiency. I don't think the books today, and I'm strongly supportive of the military, so don't misunderstand what I'm saying, but I don't think the books today reviewing the Vietnamese war gave adequate attention to the failure of the senior military leaders to acquaint their civilian counterparts with their feeling that we were on a hopeless course.

Woodward: Hard question, but important. But did you have respect for their intellect?

McNamara: Ah... Well, basically, yes. But I didn't feel that they were...completely open in discussing their views with either the President or me.

Woodward: Did you ever call one of them in and sit him down and say, hey, look?

McNamara: No. No. I probably should have, but I didn't.

Woodward: Never just said, "What's on your mind? What do you think of this?"

McNamara: No. No. I should have, but I didn't.

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Woodward: But this loyalty issue, this is... You see now in Iraq where Bush demands loyalty. Loyalty means supporting him. Loyalty means...

McNamara: Well, that's the wrong definition of loyalty, I think. Loyalty means...advising the president, the full impact of his course of action.

Woodward: It becomes...but it becomes kind of a cover, doesn't it? In a way?