Talking About Torture

R. Jeffrey Smith writes in The Washington Post: "A Republican senator who played a leading role in drafting new rules for U.S. interrogations of terrorism suspects said yesterday that he believes a compromise bill embraced by party leaders and the White House will bar some of the most extreme techniques said to have been used by the CIA.

"Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) named three measures that he said would no longer be allowed under a provision barring techniques that cause serious mental or physical suffering by U.S. detainees: extreme sleep deprivation, forced hypothermia and 'waterboarding,' which simulates drowning. He also said other 'extreme measures' would be banned. . . .

"Aides said he did not clear his remarks with the Bush administration in advance, and spokesmen for the CIA and the White House declined to say yesterday whether they accept McCain's conclusions."

But as Smith himself wrote on Sept. 16, McCain reportedly thought the last bit of torture legislation he championed -- last year -- was also going to have that effect.

And as the transcript of McCain's interview on CBS's "Face the Nation" shows, McCain was not exactly expressing certainty.

Here he is facing interrogation by Washington Post national political editor John Harris and host Bob Schieffer:

"Mr. HARRIS: This whole debate turned on things that I think most citizens couldn't understand. You said you -- severe punishment, pain should not be inflicted, but serious pain can -- what can that possibly mean in concrete terms?

"Sen. McCAIN: In concrete terms, it could mean that waterboarding and other extreme measures such as extreme deprivation -- sleep deprivation, hypothermia and others would be not allowed."

Note McCain's use of the word could .

"Mr. HARRIS: That's what you say. What if the administration interprets it differently, as it is allowed to do under the provisions of this law? What if you disagree with the interpretation?

"Sen. McCAIN: If we disagree with the interpretation, the fact is that those interpretations have to be published in the Federal Register. That's a document that's available to all Americans, including the press. And we in Congress, and the judiciary, if challenged, have the ability then to examine that interpretation and act legislatively. These are regulations the president would issue, we would be passing laws which trump regulations. . . .

"I'm confident that some of the abuses that were reportedly committed in the past will be prohibited in the future.