Beltway to Get Va. Toll Lanes

Construction of the first major expansion of the Capital Beltway in a generation could start as soon as next year, Virginia transportation officials said yesterday, Washington Post staff writer Steven Ginsberg reports in Friday's article, Beltway To Get Va. Toll Lanes (Post, April 29).

Steven Ginsberg was online Friday, April 29, at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the deal.

The transcript follows.

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Steven Ginsberg: Good afternoon everyone, lots of questions so let's get right to it.

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Eastern PWC: "The lanes will be in the middle of the Beltway and will have several access points, including one at Tysons Corner. Through drivers would merge back into the regular lanes at either end." -- I foresee the Springfield "mixing bowl" becoming increasingly trickier to maneuver as a result of the above-mentioned merging. Has this been taken into consideration, and will any steps be taken to alleviate a potential increase in congestion there?

Steven Ginsberg: yes, we didn't have room to add that a carpool connection through Springfield would be added as part of the project. The state has wanted to do this for years and is just now getting the money together. It'll be built by the same firms doing the HOT lanes.

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Falls Church, Va.: Who is paying for the extra police needed to monitor cheaters? The police do not do enough to monitor/enforce existing HOV lanes or protect from aggressive drivers but now they can be allocated to protect the rich so they cna have their special lanes?

Steven Ginsberg: Those decisions are a ways down the road, so to speak. The companies believe that by 2010 they won't need any old-fashioned eyeballs watching people. They feel that everyone will have transponders and people can be tracked that way. There are other ways to enforce it without police as well. All of the incentives are on the companies to make their money back, so you have to think they will do whatever is available to enforce the road, including paying for police.

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Fairfax City, Va.: I'm all for expanding the beltway, but not with toll lanes. Why should we, the tax paying general public, finance a private company's profits?

If politicians could better manage our taxes and allocate them accordingly, we wouldn't be in this mess.

This idea is just wrong. Why should we pay an additional fee for something that is a basic right of citizenship upon paying our taxes?

Frustrated with the idiots in Richmond.

Steven Ginsberg: Well, the state folks say that since none of your taxpayer dollars are going into this, then it's not a basic right of citizenship upon paying taxes. And they'd say that the lanes are optional, so it's up to you whether you pay to use them. I think there are lots of people in Richmond who would rather just widen the Beltway, but they accept the reality that it would be many, many years, if not decades, before they had the money to do that. Yes, some of that is because of their decisions, but that is nevertheless the present reality.

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Fairfax, Va.: This county already has a lack of trees and an over abundance of impervious surfaces. Why must this happen?? I think it's absurd and completely unnecessary. Who is going to benefit from this?? I feel no one really is.

Steven Ginsberg: One of the things state folks like about this plan is that it doesn't take very much land from around the Beltway. When the state looked at ways to widen the Beltway they came up with a plan to take 160 acres and some-200 homes. The private cos have cut that down to 6 homes by using the middle of the highway.

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Kingstowne, Va.: I read that construction is anticipated to start within a year, but I haven't seen any timetable for the end point. Do you happen to know when the expected end date will be?

Also, I know that the PPTA statute allows for a 65 mph speed limit on PPTA roads (such as the Pocahontas Parkway in Richmond). Can we expect to see 65 posted in the HOT lanes, much as it is in the express lanes on I-395? Quite frankly I believe that the 55 mph limit on the Beltway is a joke.

Steven Ginsberg: The completion date could be as soon as 2010, the companies say. All highways can be 65 mph, not just PPTAs, so I suspect that decision will be made just as it is for other roads.

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Hyattsville, Md.: I have enjoyed your coverage of DC-area transportation issues!

Lexus Lanes--One of the ways that other HOT lanes projects have overcome the idea of "Lexus Lanes" available only to the wealthy is to invest some of the proceeds from the road costs into public transit. Your article did not mention this at all. Do any of the proceeds from the HOT lanes in VA go to transit, or are all the proceeds for the companies involved? Thanks!

Steven Ginsberg: Thanks. You are correct to point out that one of the selling points of HOT lanes is that you can run public transit on it. The reason there's no bus service on the Beltway is because there's no way to make it reliable. Buses would be able to use the HOT lanes. Who pays for that is unclear right now.

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Arlington, Va.: Is this really anything more than a moneymaking scheme, when you look at the heart of it? Yes, it may alleviate congestion, but the entire premise, that as roads get more full, the tolls go up, would push people to stay on the regular Beltway lanes. And how do you know what the cost will be when you get on the toll sections (or when you are already on them, and the cost is rising as the road fills)?

Seems like an idea that won't really work effectively, and just costs people more money.

Steven Ginsberg: Well it's certainly a money-making "scheme" for the private companies. (They'd probably prefer investment.) For the state, they see a way to build more Beltway capacity at no cost to taxpayers.

Tolls will be posted and charged upon entry. You won't face rising prices once you're on the lanes.

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Alexandria, Va.: Honestly, whose gonna pay to use lanes that may (and I emphasize may) reduce congestion for a few miles? You still will end up in bad congestion no matter where you're going.

Steven Ginsberg: Well, I guess you won't be paying to use them, but I would bet you a lot of money that a whole bunch of people will. This is one of the wealthiest and most congested regions in the country and that would seem to bode well for people who would pay to use the lanes. Also, it could be pretty cost-effective for someone like a contractor who is late for a job, parent who has to pick up child from daycare, etc. to take the lanes.

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Crystal City, Va.: I don't understand the concern for enforcement here -- If people have to stop to pay a toll, won't the toll booth workers be able to tell who is not following the HOV-3? If those folks presumably get to bypass the booths, it seems that at least some one should be paying attention to occupancy. This seems like a great improvement over the lax enforcement on the current HOV!

Steven Ginsberg: Forget about toll booths in the future. We'll all have cars with transponders and that's how we'll be charged, just as cars are now with at-speed EZ-Pass tolls. Or it'll be some other technology.

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Reston, Va.: What provisions or guarantees have been asked of the construction companies to lessen the impact of lane closures and other construction-related delays between now and 2010? There's no money in it for them to accommodate present-day beltway drivers with presumably construction-slowing measures that would decrease the disturbance to an already snails-pace traffic pattern.

Steven Ginsberg: They will be subject to all the same restrictions placed on all construction projects. The biggest of those is how work impacts commuter travel. But you're right to question just how the relationship between the companies and the state will work. That is one of the interesting aspects of this because they're not going to always have the same priorities. Both sides assured me yesterday that this is a real partnership, but we'll see.

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Arlington, Va.: In order for drivers to get from Virginia to Maryland all must use the American Legion Bridge, no other options in the northwest suburban area of Washington, D.C., a lot of traffic enters from the Dulles Tollway, G.W. Parkway, etc., feeding an overwhelming amount of traffic onto the beltway right at the bridge. Now the toll lanes on the beltway will also terminate right before the bridge forcing that traffic onto the existing beltway near the bridge. This will create an even worse bottleneck for everyone as it allows more traffic to the chokepoint. What is the logic behind this move? It makes it worse for all the drivers even for the "Lexus Lane" voters the politicians covet who are the only ones who can afford the tolls. Do they think that as the backups extend well onto the new toll lanes similar to what happens at the terminus of the I-95 express lanes in Prince William County? People will not pay $8 for that when it happens day after day.

Steven Ginsberg: HOT lanes don't necessarily create more traffic. The idea is to take some portion of existing Beltway traffic out of the regular lanes and charge them a fee for a better ride. I'm sure there will be some users if the lanes work, but I don't know that it'll be an extreme number. The merge will come before the bridge, so presumably there will be time for the cars to come back together before crossing the bridge. I agree this doesn't make the bridge any better, but it remains to be seen whether it makes it worse.

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Silver Spring, Md.: In your article you mentioned that critics have lessened pressure about creating "Lexus Lanes" because studies indicate that individuals of a wide range of income levels use these optional toll lanes. However, even if lower income individuals use "Lexus Lanes" they will be hit with a regressive tax. At this point, is there any resistance to the creation of "Lexus Lanes?"

Steven Ginsberg: Is it a regressive tax if there's no state money involved?

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Fallls Church, Va.: It is unrealistic to assume all drivers will have transponders especially given this is the national capital region which attracts a lot of visitors for that reason alone as well as the fact that I-95 does not go through D.C., a lot of East Coast thru traffic goes around both sides of the beltway. The police will have to be paid for by the taxpayer as this road will eventually and it is costing the taxpayers already. They are building in the center of the roadway which is public property the taxpayers paid for when it originally got built. Now they are providing the land free to corporations to make a profit for themselves. The state should make them at least buy the land since they get to keep all the money from the tolls.

It would help if The Post were a little bit objective and point this stuff out. It is clear The Post favors corporate welfare as it did when endorsing a blank check for baseball. I am sure your editors will weed this comment out instead of address it!

Steven Ginsberg: here's your unweeded out comment. I asked that same question of the companies--what about through drivers? They still feel that most people will have transponders, partly because so many states are moving toward tolls. They accept that some number of people won't have transponders, but they feel it is possible to monitor traffic with videos or other technology. As far as the land goes, the companies are essentially renting it, not owning it. They will likely get the toll money for 60 years, which is a tremendously long amount of time. But then it returns to the state. The state will also have a cap to limit profits for these companies. It'll be interesting to see how high that is set. That'll give us a decent sense of how much money is at stake.

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Annandale, Md.: Seems to me the last time this idea was attempted, the Dullas Toll Road extension was someones brilliant "public/Private partnership idea that, if memory serves me correctly, was turned over to the state because the private partner couldn't make enough money. I just drove to Pennsylvania this weekend and paid a 5 dollar toll for about 50-60 miles of highway ... seems like 8 bucks for 16 is a little out of line don't you think???

Steven Ginsberg: That'll be up to individual drivers. And I think the way they'll look at it is as a matter of time, not distance. 14 miles can take literally hours sometimes. On days that's the case, I expect people to pay $8 and much more to save what would amount to be a morning or evening at work or with their families.

The other road you're referring to is the Dulles Greenway, which has struggled mightily to turn a profit while tolls have been raised. But it remains a completely private road.

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Arlington, Va.: I've read that Maryland is a few steps behind Virginia in this. How will a privately operated toll road in VA affect MD's decision for publicly funding HOT lanes? If they are even considering that? Seems like it should be a coordinated effort between the two areas since many of the bottlenecks occur near state lines.

Steven Ginsberg: Both states promise a coordinated system once it is built. I don't think it would work for anyone if you had to get off a toll road at the state line to just get on another. Maryland is exploring several ways to finance their express toll lanes, including using private money.

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Yes!: We need more user fees/tool roads out there. Why should I, an urban dweller have to eat the costs of expansion for Sprawlland, Stripmallvillia? You want to ruin perfectly good cropland for your new McMansion? Great! So pay for the associated costs.

I'm tired of being overtaxed to provide extra highway capacity and exits which only serve the ex-urbs.

Steven Ginsberg: Okay!

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Silver Spring, Md.: Perhaps regressive tax was slightly incorrect, but the fee is certainly more burdensome for individuals with lower incomes. Still, what resistance, if any, exists to the creation of "Lexus Lanes?"

Steven Ginsberg: The fee is more burdensome for lower income people. The state would say that those people might enjoy bus service that they could run on the HOT lanes. They would also say that they will lessen traffic on the regular lanes, though I'm skeptical that that would be enough to make much of a difference.

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Arlington, Va.: You say that HOT lanes don't create more traffic. But one of the longstanding arguments against widening roads like 66 through Arlington is that it doesn't ease congestion long-term, since drivers who had taken alternate routes go to the new wider interstate. Wouldn't it seem logical that if you take cars off of the Beltway into HOT lanes, "Lexus Lanes" people (and I think there will be plenty) who are willing to pay will flood those faster lanes, and with those cars gone from the regular lanes, new drivers who had avoided the Beltway will simply return to the Beltway?

I just find this really remarkable, that the same people who have used all those arguments against widening roads like 66 are now jumping into bed with these "investors" and ignoring all the old arguments.

Steven Ginsberg: I'm not sure who you're referring to as far as jumping into bed with anyone.

I agree that some number of people will turn to the Beltway because of the HOT lanes, but I think that the fee will be a deterrent. There's a big difference between adding a free lane and a tolled one.

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Response to Falls Church: The reader from Falls Church does have a good point considered in regard to the incompatibility of toll transponders around the country--e.g., Florida's SunPass is not compatible with E-ZPass. Makes me think that what we need is a "USA-Pass."

But if a driver doesn't have a transponder, he doesn't use the HOT lanes, just like if a driver doesn't have three people in the car, he doesn't use the expre ... oh, wait a minute!

Steven Ginsberg: That's true today for sure. It doesn't seem likely to be true 5 years from now, or whenever these lanes open. Transportation folks realize that getting people through toll lanes is key and are addressing the technology. One of the companies in this deal, Transurban, is an Australian firm brought in to manage the tolling. They said that the rest of the world is way ahead of us on this sort of technology.

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Arlington, Va.: I think this could be a new, creative, non-gov't. approach to traffic problems. Why not give it a shot? What about trying it on I-66 INSIDE the Beltway?

Steven Ginsberg: I think you'll see people trying to do this on all kinds of roads.

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Arlington, Va.: I'd like to think that in 60 years we won't need roads because we won't be driving cars! Weren't we supposed to be flying around by now anyway? So the private company getting the tolls for that long is irrelevant I'd think.

Steven Ginsberg: Good thinking. I forgot about the whole flying around thing.

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Springfield, Va.: For the person who asked about tollbooths: I expect that the toll collection will be like it is on Route 895 in Richmond, or the Express E-ZPass lanes on the New Jersey Turnpike and the Atlantic City Expressway. The lanes look like normal lanes with what looks like a sign gantry overhead, and the electronics to read the E-ZPass are mounted on the gantry. You need not slow down; on the road in Richmond, the police tested it and it works at speeds of up to 100 mph.

Steven Ginsberg: Right, that's what I was referring to. (There's some on the Dulles Toll Road too.) There still remains the question of how they will know how many people are in those cars. That's where cameras come in.

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Annandale, Va.: BAD, terrible idea!!! Don't do it!! Waste of our tax money only to help nothing. How much is it going to cost to drive in these lanes?? 20 dollars?!?! This is ridiculous!! This state needs to wisen up.

Steven Ginsberg: There is no tax money involved.

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Arlington, Va.: Re: transponders,

This is one area where people in D.C. don't get it. Go to NJ/NY where everyone has an EZPass (SmarTag, without the stupid name) and uses it every day throughout the entire region, as opposed to here where it's just applicable on one road, and you'll see how easy they are to deal with.

In many parts of the country, daily tolls are common. In D.C., the question will be over the effectiveness of "Lexus Lanes," which I think are bogus ...

Steven Ginsberg: I'm always amazed by long lines at toll booths when the EZ Pass lines move right on through. It seems inevitable to me that people will have transponders as more toll roads are built.

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Washington, D.C.: Though I rarely find myself in the shuffle during rush our on any of the major arteries in the area, I occasionally hear of HOV restrictions being lifted on 95/395 when there are extenuating circumstances such as an accident. Being that the HOT lanes will be privately owned/operated, I'm having a hard time seeing a similar lifting of the rules in should such a scenario occur. From what I gather, this would only increase the cost of jumping on the alternate road. Is this correct?

Steven Ginsberg: That is correct. The worse traffic is, the more incentive there is to use the HOT lanes. They will, of course, be available in emergency situations.

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Ellicott City, Md.: Some questions:

1. What if the companies go bankrupt while still building, what then?

2. Who will do the "policing" to be sure they are doing upkeep on these private roads.

Thanks.

Steven Ginsberg: I asked both those questions. The state said if both companies go bankrupt on the same day they'd be in real trouble. But aside from the unlikely scenario, there are guarantees that the state won't be stuck with this. And the state will be in charge of overseeing quality of maintenance, though not actually maintenance. They don't expect too many problems since all the incentive is for the companies to maintain a good road since they need to entice users.

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Foggy Bottom, Washington, D.C.: These lanes will do nothing to ease congestion on this strip. All that will happen is traffic will be displaced on two separate lanes, with the merges on both ends causing horrific backups. It will be a parking lot.

Steven Ginsberg: The idea is that the tolls will rise so it doesn't get congested, but we'll see.

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Fredericksburg, Va.: Is there any more than what's contained in your story on the status of the two I-395/95 HOT lane proposals? The additional capacity is desperately needed.

Steven Ginsberg: Nothing definite, but I think we'll hear something soon.

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Washington, D.C.: Have these private toll roads been proven to lessen congestion?

Steven Ginsberg: I haven't seen anything that says they lessen congestion on the regular lanes. What they do is provide an out for those who don't want to sit in congestion. Giving people options is the idea these days. No one thinks there's a solution to congestion.

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Arlington, Va.: Personally, I use and love the (privately-financed) Greenway, so I think this new plan is great. Why not let private outfits build the infrastructure and let users pay for it if they choose to use it? We've already got lots of public highways, so people can think they're driving for free (obviously they're not) and it seems that public highways create a free rider problem in that taxpayers get more returns on their taxes invested in highways if they use the highways more whereas pay-per-use highways will allocate costs to heavier users (which seems appropriate, especially to those of us who walk to the metro every morning to get to work).

So is this a sign of things to come for NOVA? Any insight as to what's next for NOVA HOT lanes? I-66? Tollroad? 395?

Steven Ginsberg: This is definitely a sign of things to come. I'm guessing 95/395 is the next one up for HOT lanes.

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Herndon, Va.: BREAKING NEWS!!!! D.C. has worse traffic than LA (and LA has not needed to put in these ridiculous HOT lanes). I am not kidding. I just spent a month in LA and was amazed at how much better traffic flows there, how people do not HONK at you (although they DO drive much faster) and how there seem to be at least 4 or 5 ways to get from A to B there (as opposed to here, where there are just a coupla roads for moving millions of people and where there are 3 jurisdictions that do not talk to each other when it comes to moving people around). I am now convinced that I can go to the most congested place in the U.S. and still have a better commute than the one I have in D.C. Why can't D.C. just build more roads and byways? I hope that me moving there makes all Washingtonians' commutes better (one less car!). If stupidity like HOT lanes is all that D.C. area officials can dream up to reduce traffic, I feel very sorry for the people who have to commute in this region and for their miserable futures.

Steven Ginsberg: Hey thanks!! Shame you won't be sticking around. One of the first HOT lanes was built in Orange County, which is part of the LA megalopolis.

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Fairfax, Va.: Why don't politicians show more resolve and just raise taxes to fund the needed infrastructure improvements? Privatization of the widening of the beltway is a cop out.

Steven Ginsberg: Well they gave that a shot a couple years ago and voters shot it down. Some do try to raise gas taxes every year, with no luck so far.

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Arlington, Va.: The point about transponders was missed. These corporations want to toll every freeway in the country and of course they are pushing for one toll transponder to be able to use in all 50 states.

Steven Ginsberg: Sure they do. They think there's money to be made in it. But it's up to states, i.e. taxpayers and their representatives, to decide to let them. I suspect that if states see big returns on these roads, they'll start paying for them themselves. Right now they're all too happy to let the private sector assume the risk.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Re: 60 years is a long time. Flying cars? Are you folks nuts? Put a couple million Washington-area folks in flying cars (including the teens) and it won't be safe to WALK outside.

Steven Ginsberg: Yeah, but they'd be so much fun.

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Funfax, Va.: Why is this necessary? It just means more environmental destruction, less places for water to run off, more flooding and another construction nightmare for the area. If people have such a problem with the traffic then they should start carpooling or taking Mass Transit. Many people don't use mass transit ... and that is all I use ... and it's fantastic. I feel that this is totally unnecessary and a waste of all our tax money. Find a better way to do this!!! Perhaps HOV lanes, but do it w/out building more!!!

Steven Ginsberg: Some people have suggested turning some current lanes into HOV or HOT lanes instead of adding more. Whether that's the right or wrong way to go, I think that would cause a revolt and I don't foresee anyone at the state level suggesting it.

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Leesburg, Va.: Will the tolls pay for maintenance (winter plowing, deicing, etc..) along with the reconstructions as needed over 60 years?

Steven Ginsberg: the companies are responsible for all of that.

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Transponders: I made the statement about a "USA-Pass" earlier. It's not just the toll road builders who want a universal transponder. I'd like it too. It was really annoying and stupid when Virginia had its own separate system and you had to have two transponders if you ever drove north. Same is true now if you ever go south, as Florida and Georgia have transponders that don't work with E-ZPass. Seems kinda dumb that you have to sit in the cash lane when a universal transponder could eliminate the nuisance.

Steven Ginsberg: Yep, and that's why I expect one soon, or at least the ability to use your local one wherever.

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Steven Ginsberg: Okay, everyone I have to run. Thanks for all the great questions. This is a new and interesting idea and I'm sure we'll be talking much more about it--on Monday if you like. My transportation partner Lyndsey Layton and I will be hosting a chat at 11.

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