PBS: "James Dean: Sense Memories"

The Documentary is Part of the "American Masters" Series

The film "James Dean: Sense Memories" kicks off the 19th season of the PBS series " American Masters." Having premiered on Wednesday, May 11, at 9 p.m. ET, the film marks the 50th anniversary of Dean's death and release of "Rebel Without a Cause."

The documentary focuses on the most significant period in Dean's life before he died at the age of 24. "It was so clear that he was a special person," says director Mark Rydell in "Sense Memories." "Every moment that you spent with him you knew you were with an original. Strange and peculiar and arresting -- you couldn't take your eyes off him."

Performer Eartha Kitt, series creator and executive producer Susan Lacy and director/producer Gail Levin were online to talk with you about James Dean, the PBS documentary, "Sense Memories," and the series, "American Masters."

Kitt is an international star whose relationship with James Dean has been described as a dear friendship. As a performer, she has distinguished herself in film, theater, cabaret and music and on television. Over the course of her career Kitt has been nominated for a Tony award three times, a Grammy twice, and an Emmy award. Kitt was previously online to discuss her career and her latest projects.

Lacy has been an award-winning producer of prime-time public television programs for almost two decades. She has been responsible for the production and national broadcast of 130 documentary biographies on artists who have made a significant impact on American culture.

Levin is an Emmy Award-winning producer/director of both television and film. She has worked in various formats, ranging from original children's programming and network specials to collaborations with theater and performance artists. Her work includes documentary and independent film.

A transcript follows.

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Eartha Kitt: Hello everybody, to all my fans, because if it wasn't for you, so...Rrrrrrr!! (growl!)

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New Jersey: Ms. Kitt, I know this is a very personal question but do you remember where you were and your reaction when you heard the news that James Dean had died?

Eartha Kitt: Yes, I had just come off the stage from doing my performance at El Rancho Vegas in Las Vegas. In my dressing room, one of the girls from the chorus line told me Jamie was killed.

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Forked River, N.J.: For Eartha Kitt: Did you really have a "feeling" about the fate of the Spyder? What was Dean's response when you told him to not drive the car he eventually died in?

Eartha Kitt: Yes, because I felt that first of all, I had been in NY doing a play and the play had finished. I had stopped in LA to see my boyfriend Arthur Lowe. On my way to Vegas to do my usual engagement. James answered the door. I hugged him as we usually did, and I did not feel his spirit, I felt the body. I said, Jamie, what are they doing to you. Your body is here, but you are not. He said, Oh Kit you are one of your voodoo trips again. He wanted to go to his house to get some records to play around the pool that day. He got into that Porsche, went over Mulholland Drive where he was living, and I told him, I don't like this car, Jamie, it's going to kill you. No reason or other why I should have said that because he was driving very sanely. He laughed. And well, I guess the next day I went onto Vegas and the following Sunday, I think it was, I got the news. I'm not sure if it was a Sunday.

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Washington, D.C.: Ms. Levin, what was the most surprising thing you uncovered while researching the film?

Gail Levin: I don't know what I actually found that was new, as such... but what struck me enormously was the just random-ness of life and that now, fifty years later, these extraordinary people, men and women, who have survived Dean are such stunning examples of the triumph of living -- triumph with all its disasters and joys... and that fact is a sort of palpable subtext, for me, of this film... the random triumph of life...

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McLean, Va.: If Dean had lived, do you think he would have had a long career as an actor, or would he have gone in other directions?

Eartha Kitt: He probably would have become a director, because I think he was on the verge of being an Orson Wells, director, actor, producer. But I don't think he would have left acting.

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Eartha Kitt: But Jamie was just as interested in stage acting as in movies. But he did have a stronger feeling for the stage because he felt he was more in control of his creative abilities. Whereby, the movie business he felt he was not as important a creative artist, as far as directing and editing was concerned. He told me when he was doing Giant, he felt the attention was given more to the other actors, like Liz Taylor and Rock Hudson, then it was to him. And he felt lost there.

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Chicago, Ill.: Ms. Levin, What does the title "Sense Memories" mean?

Gail Levin: Glad you asked... I was looking at a book of film essays by the great German director Wim Wenders, and the book was titled EMOTION PICTURES... and I loved the title and felt strongly that that was what I was trying to achieve... a personal sort of "rashoman" -- the memories of people who knew him... but now, fifty years later, those memories have become many things -- and maybe the "sense" of them is different... it is also a "method acting" term, meaning to pull from one's own experience, one's own sort of muscle memory... so this was applicable as well... and it felt that because it was all so intimate and again, in the realm of memory, that "sense memories" might be a wonderful title...

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Alexandria, Va.: James Dean's three movies show that he had such raw talent; it's a real pity his life was cut so short. Were there any projects in waiting at the time of his death that would have continued to showcase his acting skills?

By the way, Ms. Kitt, you are absolutely AMAZING! I have followed your career for many years and am always stunned by your performances...

Eartha Kitt: Well thank you! Of course, there must have been other projects. He was becoming so important, he was in demand constantly. But it wasn't anything that he would talk to me about. I think he came to pick me up from time to time because he wanted to be silent, and he wanted to be with someone who understood him and didn't do a lot of blah, blah, blah. Most of our times together were alone, riding around LA or NYC, or walking around NYC at night, looking at the night people. This is where we found characters that we could use later on somewhere. So there was not much conversation between us, mainly laughing and enjoying each others company, and not using many words to communicate.

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La Jolla, Calif.: Who were James Dean's closest friends during the period that you knew him?

Eartha Kitt: I don't remember having friends around that he was very close to. There might have been a photographer, I don't remember his name. And I remember him following us a lot. But when I was around, there were not a lot of other people. I wasn't into parties, but we did go once in awhile together, and we played the congas together. He always kept a drum in the trunk of his car. He was learning. I was very often teaching him, because I was a conga player.

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Eartha Kitt: I know there is a lot of misunderstanding concerning a death wish. Where I'm concerned he did not have a death wish for himself as James Dean the person, or the actor. He had that feeling against how Hollywood was treating him. And that might have come into play on his personality, in interpreting him as a person who had a death wish. But I don't think that was the case at all. He was very often angry about the way he was treated in Hollywood -- as we say, a piece of meat, rather than the person himself. And he felt they got lost between James Dean the person, and the money making James Dean. SO the contact between the two personalities was very often disturbing to him.

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Washington, D.C.: Ms. Levin, congratulations on a wonderful, stunning film. I loved the way your subjects were interviewed in stark black and white. And the additional footage of Dean was interesting. What I found fascinating was the scene description in Giant when James Dean plays with the rope and touches the money with his little finger. The way he "stole" the scene from the other actors. Most of the actors he worked with on the films -- Rock Hudson, Natalie Wood, Sal Mineo, and others have passed away. Do there exist any interviews with big actors such as those about Dean. How did Rock Hudson feel about scene stealing Dean? Sorry for the long question but I was just so taken with the film. Thank you.

Gail Levin: First of all, my very real thanks... it makes all the difference to hear remarks like yours because we were very deliberate in our approach to this film and so I am pleased when it translates out...

As for other interviews... yes, we did see some other pieces... one from Julie Harris, which was quite moving... she told a story of Dean's actually sobbing when EAST OF EDEN had finished shooting and how very sensitive he was... and of course the scenes with Julie Harris and Dean in EDEN are quite touching...

I also saw an interview with Rock Hudson and with Elizabeth Taylor which were done about a decade plus ago... Elizabeth Taylor adored him and they were understandably close... he was indeed a type that she would have responded to completely.. I will add more in a minute...

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Susan Lacy: Hello, delighted to talk to you, I've never done this before!

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Colorado Springs, Colo.: Is James Dean still regarded as an icon, how popular is he? Is he only popular among us "older folks"?

Susan Lacy: I think he is still a major icon, and travels from generation to generation.

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Washington, D.C.: First off, I enjoyed the presentation, and particularly the insight into how directors worked with Dean.

It bothered me to hear candid remarks of the directors bleeped out, though. The words they chose were part of the authentic observations of American masters, not gratuitous.

In the future, could you knock off the censorship?

Susan Lacy: That is not a Susan Lacy decision. That's a PBS Decision. You should write PBS!

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Baltimore, Md.: Ms. Lacy, Has American Masters been affected by the rise of other biography series (like Biography)? How do you compete?

Susan Lacy: Good question. I don't really think that we compete. First of all we preceded all the other series. I don't think it will come as a surprise that everyone considers AM to be far and away the best biography series on television. And we are really doing different things. We are making films for the ages. And are not having to compete in the commercial marketplace. Also, our audience is significantly larger than any cable biography series. We have won the Emmy for outstanding non-fiction series 5 out of the last 6 years.

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Eartha Kitt: Well Like all of us who went thru those rebellion stages and feeling like no one understood us, we do come to a point of settling and understanding that we must be constructive rather than destructive. At least I think that is the case for most of us. But we all go thru stages of rebellion no matter who we are or what stage of history it is. Hollywood pointed out these rebellions which gave us an understanding of why we were rebelling, better than we understood ourselves, therefore opened up that self-analysis of what we are going to do about this stage of rebellion. Parents came to an awareness too, that children should be recognized as a more important part of the family than they were at that time! Now in some ways, I think that feeling of discipline, that we are constantly thinking of as parents and understanding of our children, is also getting lost. Because we have to get back to understanding that the children are the most important members of the family, and we have to discuss what our feelings are for one another. I wish that there were more films of that sort now, to force us to realize that children need discipline and understanding, rather than just bringing them into the world and then leaving them on their own. And then like the song Paul Lind sang in Bye Bye Birdie, What the Hell Wrong with Children These Days! The parents are just as responsible for rebelling as the children. We give ourselves all sorts of excuses. As to why the children are rebelling, rather than looking at ourselves as parents. These films brought that out, that we should be more connected with our children. And understand that they do go thru stages of rebellion.

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Falls Church, Va.: Hi,

Submitting early because of a meeting: I got to see a fair amount of last night's show--very interesting. Being in my twenties I wasn't around for Dean's heyday.

My question is this: looking at the current crop of attractive young males in Hollywood, who would you say subscribes most closely to the Dean school of acting, both on and off screen?

Susan Lacy: Good question. I'd say maybe Sean Penn. And Johnny Depp.

Eartha Kitt: They play rebellious characters, but seem to understand why they are rebelling.

And they have the ability to be both moody and playful.

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Washington, D.C.: Ms. Kitt: I saw you when you performed live at Anton's 1201 Club here in 1991 to an audience full of lovestruck Senators. Bush buddy Senator Simpson of Wyoming I remember especially, and Bush press secretary Anna Perez. Are you singing again here in town and if so, when? Love you much.

Eartha Kitt: No I have no engagements as yet. I was just there at Jazz Alley. Or is it Blues Alley. Because I love the personnel there, the club and the audience there. But I have no immediate plans to come back.

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Basking Ridge, N.J.: Gail, why were you chosen for this project? Are you a serious Dean fan?

Gail Levin: Actually it was the very famous photograph taken by Dennis Stock that was so influential in launching this film... I met Dennis while doing another film a couple of years ago called MAKING THE MISFITS, also for PBS, and knew of the famous Dean shot...

He then contacted me about this very important anniversary and suggested making a film... I then contacted Susan Lacy who liked the idea very much and was also able to work out an extraordinary arrangement with Warner Bros...

Often in filmmaking it is about lining up the planets, and luckily they lined up... I wouldn't call myself a Dean fan, but I would call myself a real appreciation of his extraordinary mystique and loved the possibility of making this film...

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Eartha Kitt: Besides I am doing more cabaret/theater now. Which would be more in theaters. There are not that many clubs anymore, which is a shame, I used to feel very comfortable there. Not that I don't feel comfortable in theaters. Once it is over 750 or 1,000 people, then I think you start losing the intimacy of what cabaret is all about.

Oh and it's Blues Alley!

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Colorado Springs, Colo.: Do you think a big deal will be made of the 50th anniversary of his death?

Gail Levin: Yes... keep your eyes and ears open!

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Harrisburg, Pa.: Quite a bit was mentioned in the program about Dean's instinctive gifts. Did you learn about his intellectual gifts, level of education etc. in preparing this program?

Gail Levin: Yes we did... he was an athlete and a debater in high school and had a particularly influential drama teacher while in high school who encouraged him greatly... he also chose a reading from a Dostoevsky short story as part of a speaking contest while in high school, which was especially difficult... and it is said, in the writing about Dean, that that gift was there early...

He then went to LA to go to college and first started at Santa Monica College... his erstwhile father wanted him to study accounting and economics which were not at all his forte... he transferred to UCLA to study drama and had as an initial teacher, the actor James Whitmore...

It was Whitmore who suggested he go to New York... he did... and subsequently became the youngest person at that time, ever taken into the Actor's Studio...

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Newport Beach, Calif.: Eartha, an honour and great pleasure. You have said that there "used to be" great personalities in Hollywood, but now its more of a business and about how we look. Can you be more specific? Do you feel times and the world has changed and that in the world there is generally a lack of personality and today's Hollywood simply reflects that? Do you think personalities of the 50's were more constructions, that people spent more times "developing" their personalities in those days? Why do you think there is a lack of personality in Hollywood -- is it that those with one have more trouble being successful? Advise please. Thanks for your time.

Eartha Kitt: Yes...Hollywood wants look a like, do a like, be alike, so they can replace you. And if you are not replaceable they don't consider that good business, because they can't replace you! And therefore, the individual, strong personalities, and creative artists who cared and loved their artistry, very often left Hollywood, because Hollywood seemingly, not only now but also then, wanted to please the masses, rather than be concerned about an out of the ordinary type such as Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Lena Horne, Paul Robeson...They are always looking for somebody that everybody and his brother will accept. Rather than recognizing a difference and playing on that. More so now, and I'm always saying, it's not what you are capable of doing as a creative artist, but how much money you are making at the box office, which seems to be much more important. I recognize that making money is important, we all have to survive, but when the money, money, money becomes more important than the creative artist, then you have a world of robotic "isms", and everybody looks alike, do alike, etc., etc. And the PR people are constantly competing to get their artists in the headlines, so that they can make more money at the box office, and usually it's the negative point of view. Usually, it seems that the more trouble you get into, the more you make at the box office. In those days we had glamour, we didn't take our clothes off, we were always ladies, and even if we did take our clothes off, it was always dignified. Look what Marilyn Monroe did. She was photographed nude, but from that photograph up, up, up. But she was still glamourous and very much a lady. That kind of thing, being a lady and glamorous doesn't seem to exist anymore, at least I haven't seen it. Nicole Kidman is in that category of being glamorous in that category.

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Washington, D.C.: Dean seemed like a good kid, but is he really a fit subject for "American Masters"? Other than his great looks, which live on endlessly on posters, what was his lasting contribution to our culture? He made only three movies, and, while I hate to say it, "Rebel" comes across nowadays as little more than a solid teen movie, verging on over-the-top melodrama. Isn't this program just a bit of baby-boomer nostalgia for a lost adolescence?

Eartha Kitt: Those films we learned something from. And if you are going to compare what is going on these days, these movies making today about teenagers to those kind of teenage movies - that's the way it was in those days. there is no comparison. That was then and this is now.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: Susan, kudos on a fantastic season ahead of you!!! The James Dean program was wonderful, mesmerizing, just incredible. How do you pick your subjects for the season? Do you have a favorite program, film, subject that you have profiled. Anyone still on the top of your list that you haven't featured yet? Thank you for great TV.

Susan Lacy: That's a lot of questions! James Dean is something of an exception, because it was a small body of work.

Eartha Kitt: But within that body of work, he was very strong and we are still remembering it. There's no such thing as a small body of work. It's the importance of the work.

Susan Lacy: But I am trying to make films about people who's body of work, large or small, has really impacted our culture, who are part of our cultural legacy. And people whose work affected the discipline in which they worked. Really affected it, the mold setters. And I am trying to have a diversity, from literature, film, architecture, photography, music, all of those things make up our heritage. And I have many favorites, but I'm not going to say! They are all my children, and I love them equally. I do have a few people we haven't done. My longtime answer to that was Bob Dylan, but I got Bob Dylan. Now I'd say Marlon Brando, who I think changed the acting style more than anyone. Steven Spielberg. Frank Sinatra. Meryl Streep. And thank you for the compliment!!

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Newport Beach, Calif.: Do you believe anyone truly knew who Dean was; many have said how he was always in character, so how can we know that we have any idea who he was? More to the point, how much do you think Dean invented his personality and persona? If so, how did he do it, how did he research this "character" and who all did he base it on and how did he test it? Do you think times have changed so much or is it that he could legitimately be so rude to people yet still make it in Hollywood. Do you feel there is anyone similar to him (in all ways) in today's cinema?

Eartha Kitt: Does anyone really know who we are. He found characters from watching people. He never knew when he would use it later on. I don't think we should think in terms of really feeling that we "know" someone. I think one of the reasons we are actors is that we are always searching for ourselves to find out who we are. And we are lucky to try different characters in our lives, never fully settling into one character. Because I don't think there is ever "one" character person, no matter who we are.

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Toronto, Ontario: Do you think the Dean mystique is warranted? Was he that special or was his untimely death at the peak of his success the tragedy?

Susan Lacy: I do think his untimely death contributed to his mystique, I don't think there is any question about that. Do I think it's warranted? Yes. There wouldn't be so much attention on him if it wasn't, that is what a mystique is. I think he was a wonderful actor...

Eartha Kitt: And getting into being a better actor, constantly.

Susan Lacy: And I think as Ms. Kitt has so eloquently stated, he really captured sort of the zeitgeist of his time among young people. And I think each new generation discovers him and discovers that in him, and relates.

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Alexandria, Va.: I would first like to express to all of you my admiration for all your work. 'Sense Memories' was an astonishing glimpse into the soul of a captivating, albeit misunderstood, American icon. My question for each of you is: Outside of his work, James Dean comes across as a 'peculiar' man; one of the people interviewed in your feature said he was not an easy man to tolerate sometimes. In your opinion, what was it about James Dean that, despite his quirks, made him so endearing to so many people? What was it about him that made him so arresting?

I thank you again for the wonderful program!

Gail Levin: First of all, thank you!... it seems that one of the most captivating aspects of James Dean was his vulnerability... if we think of Brando in those years as the screaming Terry Malloy of ON THE WATERFRONT, and Stanley Kowolsky of STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE, Dean was the sobbing young boy of EAST OF EDEN and REBEL...

That was new... and I think somehow very important... and people respond to that quality because it is one we mask... he did not...

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Colorado Springs, Colo.: I loved the show... does PBS have anything else on James Dean in the pipeline that we can look forward to? Ms Kitt, in my world, you are an icon. If American Idol can find another Eartha, it would then be worth the hoopla!

Eartha Kitt: Dream on darling! The wonderful thing about being an individual is that there is no one to compete with, which is a great joy. I don't worry about competing with other people. But it's too bad that the business itself is not more enamored of individuals who give a different view on things, who look at things a different way, such as the James Deans, and Marlon Brandos, and Sean Penn's and Johnny Depps. Because they give you a different point of view, food for thought. And that thought may be a secret that you are searching for as the interpreter of what they are doing. And they have it, and they don't even know it. Oh, and Robert Downey, is another wonderful person who gives you food for thought.

Susan Lacy: -- I agree...

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Washington, D.C.: What about his social and political ideology? Did he feel compelled to express his notions of society and/or the world to others? Did he engage in these discussions over dinner and drinks or was he more likely to express himself in more public venues? I ask because of the comparison to Penn and Depp. Thank you.

Eartha Kitt: No, I don't remember James ever doing that. whatever his feelings were was in his characters.

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Washington, D.C.: Picking up on the question whether Dean has made "a lasting contribution to our culture," it seems to me that the question almost answers itself: if there were not something compelling and significant about James Dean and the James Dean story, his image would not have achieved iconic status, and we would not be talking about him 50 years later. There are plenty of other performers artists who have met tragic ends who no one remembers today. I would be interested in any thoughts or comments the panelists might have.

Eartha Kitt: James Dean had something to say, it was his secret, that made an impact on us work wise that is...

He was not a surface actor, he dug within himself to find the understanding of the characters that he was working thru. He just didn't say the words, he lived the words that came from him from the characters. And gave us a feeling of understanding. Brando and Dean were not acting, they were living their characters.

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Bowie, Md.: For Ms.Kitt I recently saw the film Anna Lucasta starring you and Sammy Davis Jr. I thought it was a wonderful jazzy movie. What are your recollections of making the film and of working with Sammy Davis Jr.?

Eartha Kitt: Working with Sammy was marvelous, but he was fighting for being bigger than life itself. It was a joy to work with him. But, 2500 cinemas in America would not take the film, even though I was in the running for being an Academy nomination. From what I was told, I didn't look black enough on the screen to be making love to a black man. And Sammy and I signed 2,500 pieces of paper going across the country to ask theaters to play the film. But as we say, that was then, and this is now.

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Gail Levin: Just to elaborate on how Dean prepared and worked... it is said that Marlon Brando changed the way people acted, and Dean changed the way people lived...

In a sense he was the original method man... he pulled from life all the time... the life/art schism was very palpable and his approach to his art very close to the bone...

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Susan Lacy: We have grown to some extent.

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Newport, R.I.: In the circles that you and James Dean traveled in in New York in the mid-1950s, were people focused on the racial issues that were fermenting nationwide? By the latter half of the 1950s, the segregation crisis was reaching a boiling point -- was Dean aware of these issues, and did he discuss them/express any views on them?

Eartha Kitt: No, we didn't discuss them. We just went along as if there was no such thing as racial prejudice. And we found that if we ignored it, other people ignored it.

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Susan Lacy: Unfortunately, I have to sign off now, but I hope everyone will tune into American Masters next Wednesday night for our film on Ray Charles. And I've enjoyed this very much! Thank you and nice talking to you all!

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Eartha Kitt: I never say goodbye!! But we do have to hang up now because I have a show tonight and I have to go the gym! It's been fun!

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Athens, Ohio: Greetings Ms. Kitt, Susan and Gail,

I'm a 32 year old guy who knew pretty much close to nothing about James Dean, and out of curiosity I rented the DVD edition of "Giant", with Dean, Liz Taylor and Rock Hudson.

I found it interesting that a significant amount of Dean's acting on the film didn't involve dialogue: just him reacting to certain lines from other actors, or him conveying that he was a ranch-hand, or trying to develop his "then" meager oil well. This was interesting for me because most actors at that time anyway expressed their character through words, not so much behavior. Am I reading too much into this?

Gail Levin: No, I don't think you are reading too much into this... I think Dean was extraordinarily quiet and very internalized in his responses to things... and it was this sort of quiet absorption of character that informed his performance...

For me GIANT is his best performance...

Coming up: AMERICAN MASTERS: "Ray Charles: The Genius of Soul" Jerry Digney, Charles' publicist for the last 6 years of his life, will join producer, Susan Lacy, in a chat about Ray Charles on Thursday, May 19, 12 p.m. ET.

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