Transitioning from orphaned days on Harlem streets to musical stardom, Ella Fitzgerald's life and career is the focus of the PBS documentary "Ella Fitzgerald: Something to Live For." During her 58 years of performing be-bop, ballads and the blues, the artist won 13 Grammy Awards and sold more than 40 million records. The Grammy-Award nominated film is part of the "American Masters" series. It airs on Wednesday, June 1, at 9 p.m. ET on PBS (check local listings).
Series creator and executive producer Susan Lacy and Gene Seymour, who writes a jazz column at Newsday, were online Thursday, June 2, at Noon ET to discuss Fitzgerald's life, the documentary and "American Masters."
American Masters was granted exclusive access to the artist's estate, making for the first full-length documentary portrait of Fitzgerald ever made. Narrated by Tony Bennett, the film features Fitzgerald's friends, colleagues and family as they provide insight into the singer's life.
Lacy has been responsible for the production and national broadcast of 130 documentary biographies on artists who have made a significant impact on American culture.
Seymour, also a film critic, has worked at Newsday since 1990. His work has appeared in such publications as The Los Angeles Times, The Nation and Entertainment Weekly. A two-time winner of the New York Association of Black Journalists for distinguished criticism, Seymour is a contributor to The Oxford Companion to Jazz and is the author of "Jazz the Great American Art (Franklin Watts)."
The transcript follows.
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Gene Seymour: Hello. I'm Gene Seymour and this is all very new to me. So forgive me if I stumble along the way. I appreciate the questions I'm seeing so far and I hope you'll bear with me and I attempt to get at as many as I can.
It's been a while since I've thought about Ella this deeply and for this alone, I'm grateful that American Masters decided to re-present, so to speak, the documentary.
So let's get started. I'm here for you....
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washingtonpost.com: Susan Lacy will be joining us shortly ...
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Baltimore, Md.: Mr. Seymour, are there any young artists today that you would put in the same class as Ella Fitzgerald? Who's music are you currently excited about?
Gene Seymour: Though it's somewhat under the pop-cultural radar, there's a surfeit of fine jazz singers working these days. So many of them work in different idioms, at different speeds and tempos. If I had to pick one singer right now who's keeping Ella's flame stoked the brightest, I have to go with Dee Dee Bridgewater. She has all the warmth, all the vivacity and also a sensational stage presence. But more than that, she has a keen sense of instrumental expression and the ingenuity to deploy it with any kind of song -- love ballad, show-stopper, whatever. If you're at a record outselt, seek out Bridgewater's "Live at Yoshi's" (Verve) and you'll know what I'm talking about.
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Austin, Tex.: I recently gave my husband a copy of your book "Jazz: The Great American Art." He was thrilled with the addition to his library. Thanks for a wonderful history of Jazz. Were you also involved with Ken Burns series on Jazz?
Gene Seymour: Alas, no. But Mr. Burns has been kind enough to acknowledge my book to me personally. So that's something....
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Susan Lacy: Hello everybody, it's Susan Lacy, I'm the executive producer of the series, and I'm happy to be here today!
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Chicago, Ill.: Ms. Lacy, Congratulations once again on a wonderful film. Thanks for bringing this great series to television. There has been so much talk in the press lately about the relevancy of public TV. Obviously those critical of PBS don't watch American Masters. Thank you!!!
Susan Lacy: On, that is one of the nicest things I've heard all day! Thanks for recognizing it and appreciating it with us. Of course, we never want to be in the position of putting down our competition, but it's nice to know that people do see the difference.
As far as relevancy, if you feel this strongly I urge you and anyone you know who shares this feeling to go public with it. Public television is in trouble. You are obviously a member of a discerning audience. We believe there is a large audience out there equally discerning. But Congress, many of whom do not actually watch these programs, are making surface judgments. You can have a program about the same artist on public television and on cable television and they are as different as night and day. But you have to watch them to know that. So help us get the word out there that Public Television is relevant.
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washingtonpost.com: Gene, as a jazz columnist and a film critic, how would you describe Ella Fitzgerald's music? What did you think of the PBS documentary "Ella Fitzgerald: Something to Live For"?
Gene Seymour: I am an admirer of the late Charlotte Zwerin, who made the documentary. If I'm not mistaken, she was also involved in the Thelonious Monk documentary Straight No Chaser. She understands and appreciates jazz music and she chose wisely from what I can only assume is a vast body of TV and film clips of Ella in performance. (And Ella in performance is the best way to appreciate her legacy.) The film was also tender and delicate towards the facts of Ella's life, without sparing any of the melancholy aspects of her life. A difficult task to pull off since there was very little that Fitzgerald disclosed about her inner life and thoughts. She didn't sing her life. She celebrated life. I think that hits all your points.
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Arlington, Va.: Major jazz fan here and I loved your documentary. A question: What do you think is her best live recorded performance? My vote is "Live from Berlin."
Gene Seymour: The Berlin set is a classic. But "Ella in Rome: The Birthday Concert" (Verve) which was recorded in 1958 cooks just as hard. She really did pick up added wattage in front of a live audience (as the documentary showed. How about that set at Ronnie Scott's in London in the late 1970s!) If you can find any of the Cote D'Azur concerts with Duke Ellington's orchestra from 1966, those would be pretty special additions to your library as well.
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washingtonpost.com: American Masters was granted exclusive access to Ella Fitzgerald's estate, which made for the first full-length documentary portrait of the singer ever made. Susan, can you explain how American Masters was granted this access and what exactly that meant for the making of the documentary?
Susan Lacy: That's a complicated question. Ella Fitzgerald's estate did not actually own any materials. It was mostly owned by someone who managed her career for a very long time, some 40 years, Norman Granz. That is whom we had a relationship with. Without his full cooperation we would not have had access to most of those performances. And one of the things we're proud of in the show is that we were able to have lengthy excerpts of performances. That is one of the most difficult things to achieve in making these programs. Many, many companies and organizations that control footage put real restrictions on it, like 30 second maximums. They feel that it might diminish the value of the total program that they own and have in distribution. So one of the first things I do before I start any program is to figure out where the material lies, who owns it and what kind of arrangement I need to make in order to not be faced with those restrictions. We're not interested about making programs about great artists and showing their work in 30 second increments. We're usually able to make those arrangements because people trust the quality of our work. And over these many years we've developed that kind of a reputation. And when we can't get that kind of cooperation, we don't make the show.
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Arlington, Va.: Susan, how much time went into making this film? Is this the first time it's been released?
Susan Lacy: No, this show, I can't remember exactly how old it is, but it is a repeat. I think we did this show about six years ago. And it took about nine months-- after I'd spent a year negotiating all the rights. It was directed by a wonderful filmmaker, Charlotte Zwerin. She was a great jazz lover and I think she really understood Ella's story and brought great humanity to it.
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Washington, D.C.: How do you determine the line-up of American Masters? For instance, is there a reason why Cary Grant is followed by Ella Fitzgerald? I'm just curious about the decision-making process in terms of production. Thanks for your insight.
Susan Lacy: We discuss the schedule with PBS. Because we are so eclectic, PBS regards it as a strength that each week is a different great American subject. The connecting glue is that they are all people who defined their discipline.
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Susan Lacy: We do have the opportunity with this new weekly schedule however, to do some thematic groupings. For example, beginning mid-August through Mid-September we have four programs on writers which we're calling The Writer's Block. And the writers are Ralph Ellison, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Willa Cather and Ernest Hemingway.
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Port-of-Spain, Trinidad: As a young person I had heard about Ella Fitzgerald but never took a real interest in her or her music. I saw the PBS program and I was literally bowled over ... what a voice!!!!. I now know why they called her "the first lady of song." I am now a fan. Now I know she has many, many albums but if I wanted to go out and purchase her album what would you suggest I get?
Gene Seymour: Holy cats!!! Where DO you start??? If you've an historical sensibility, you may want to start with the Chick Webb band recordings of the late 1930s. Others with some A-Tisket, a-Tasket...But off the top of my head...Geez!...How about "Pure Ella", a 1954 series of duets she did with pianist ellis Larkins? Or "Ella In Berlin" the great live concert? Or one of the "songbooks"? And there are so many of those!!! I started with the Cole Porter Songbook, but if you twist my arm, I'd recommend the Harold Arlen Songbook. Or maybe the Gershwin. Or the Ellington...Yikes! Now I've really made your head explode...Anyway, from the above, you could at least build yourself a nice starter set...
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Susan Lacy: Two of those programs are repeats, and Willa Cather and Hemingway are new.
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Greenwich, Conn.: When will this be on again? My husband is furious that he missed it.
Susan Lacy: You have to contact your local PBS station and ask them when they're repeating it. We don't control the repeat schedule.
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washingtonpost.com: PBS TV Schedules
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Tokyo, Japan: Can I buy this as a DVD?
Susan Lacy: Yes you can and here is the link.
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washingtonpost.com: Shop PBS: American Masters: Ella Fitzgerald - Something To Live For (DVD)
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Philadelphia, Pa.: hello Gene. Do you have an all-time favorite performer? Do you enjoy other music besides Jazz? And are there any jazz festivals that you recommend? Thanks.
Gene Seymour: There are artists to whom I'm constantly returning for different forms of sustenance. Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Billie Holiday, Lester Young, Clifford Brown...It's difficult to pick just one from that crowd. I can tell you that lately I've been on a Billie kick, but later this summer, I could find myself immersed in Duke again. As for festivals, I am going to the New York JVC festival as I do every year. But the Monbtrael festival, which comes in early July is one of the best in the world.
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Atlanta, Ga.: I just wanted to say that the program was AWESOME! Truly one of the best documentaries put together on such a wonderful performer. Is there a mailing address where I can send a check or money order to purchase the doc. for my personal collection? Ella was truly one of the best singers that crossed this side of the earth! Thanks for documenting her story so wonderfully!
Susan Lacy: Thank you so much for your wonderful words. Please see the link that we just posted.
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Capitol Heights: Hello, and thanks for taking my question and or comments. I would love to see a movie based on Ella's life, and also another one on Billie Holiday, with Queen Latifah as the lead part in Lady Day. What do you think? I for one know that The Queen is right for the part. The look the voice. Remember you heard it here first. Thanks!
Susan Lacy: There was that great film on Billie Holiday, Lady Sings THe Blues, with Diana Ross. Sounds like a great idea, the world will know who's idea it was. And I think Queen Latifah would make a great Ella, that's a great suggestion. You should suggest it to her!
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Herndon, Va.: I'm another who'll have to catch a re-run! Did Ella marry again after divorcing Ray Brown and have any other children?
Susan Lacy: No.
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Watertown, Mass.: I'm a 44-year-old white guy and I gotta tell you I think Ella has the greatest voice to come out of America ever. Thank God for mom and dad playing her records around the house. Whenever I talk fondly of her work, I often encounter the old, "She's no Billie Holiday" and the argument that Holiday's voice is tinged with real pain as opposed to Ella's stylized warblings. I couldn't disagree more. I can hear sorrow in Ella's voice and I think your program demonstrated that she really had a lot of misfortune to draw on. Your thoughts?
Gene Seymour: I'm glad someone out there raised this issue. Because too often Billie and Ella are set off against each other, as if
it's impossible to love both. The best answer I heard to this dillemna came from the late great jazz critic Martin Williams who said that if Holiday was a great dramatist then Fitzgerald was the greatest of melodramatists. And if you love (and sometimes need) melodrama for its visceral satisfactions, then there's nothing wrong with the enthusiasm, ingenuity and sheer love of song for its own sake that Ella embodies.
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Alexandria, Va.: Ella Fitzgerald was a wonderful scat singer. I once heard a story that she actually invented "scat" singing one night during a gig when she forgot the lyrics to the song she was singing. Any truth to this "urban myth"?
Gene Seymour: If memory serves, it was Louis Armstrong who during a 1920 recording session, forgot the lyrics to a song and just started making up nonsense sounds to a syncopated beat.
Pops may have invented it, but Ella helped take it up a notch or three...
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Washington, D.C.: I sadly missed the documentary. What was Ella's first step toward stardom? Thanks, and I'll have to watch it ...
Susan Lacy: Well she hooked up with the band leader, Chick Webb. She had a very unhappy childhood, an abusive childhood. And actually spent part of her youth in a juvenile delinquent home. And was discovered at an early age by Chick Webb. And went on the road with his band. She had this amazing voice.
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Susan Lacy: Unfortunately, I have to go to a meeting, but this has been great, please keep the questions coming, and keep watching! Next Wednesday is our show on Gene Kelly -- and it's marvelous!
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Arlington, Va.: Hello Gene. What's your experience writing about Ella's music? How did you get into jazz writing?
Gene Seymour: Hmmm...well, let me answer with a story that may or may not address your question indirectly...
Ella died on a Saturday and I had to compose an obituary for Newsday pretty quickly. Which I did -- in time to attend a backyard barbecue for some writers and editors here in Manhattan. While making small talk with some of the other guests, I mentioned that I'd just finished writing Ella's obituary. Out of the blue, with no warning whatsoever, this young loudmouth starts jabbering about Ella being the most overrated singer of the 20th century and that Betty Carter was so much better and that she sounded so childlike and people love that but there was no real substance, etc etc etc...
Well, I was taken aback (as were others watching this tirade). But I've been listening to and writing about jazz long enough to have some perspective and even tolerance towards such callow outbursts. I wrote two weeks later that I recognized this young fellow's impatience so well, because I too went through a "Ella is overrated" phase that I outgrew. And i was able to say how I outgrew it and how best to arrive at a more balanced, reasonable and satisfying place with Ella's music.
It takes time. It takes patience. But it's worth the candle.
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Washington, D.C.: When I was a child in the early '60's, I had a small tape recording device that played tapes and one I remember was Fitzgerald singing sweetly "a tisket a tasket" and a sultry "Destafinado." She was one of a kind.
Gene Seymour: Agreed. Which makes that earlier question about who among today's active singers is the closest to Ella. The fact is there are pieces of Ella to be found in just about every person, man or woman, who calls him/herself a jazz singer. But someone who can go from a nursery rhyme to Jobim without no seams showing??? No one now. No one ever.
And with that, I shall take my leave because I'm late for a meeting. This was fun. Thanks for all your questions and I just hope I haven't confused anyone.
A pleasure....
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washingtonpost.com: Next week's American Masters, "Gene Kelly: Anatomy of a Dancer," airs on Wednesday, June 8, at 9 p.m. ET on PBS (check your (local listings). A Live Online discussion will follow on Thursday, June 9, at Noon ET.
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Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
