Southern ICC Route

Maryland highway officials announced today that the more southern route outlined in Montgomery County's master plan is their choice for the path of the proposed six-lane intercounty connector highway.

The highly anticipated announcement followed a 2 1/2-year federal environmental review of a highway proposal that has sparked political controversy for more than four decades. The state's choice is largely the same route that former Maryland Gov. Parris N. Glendening (D) called an "environmental disaster" when he cancelled a similar study in 1999, Washington Post staff writer Katherine Shaver reports.

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Washington Post staff writer Steven Ginsberg was online Tuesday, July 12, at 2 p.m. ET to answer your questions.

The transcript follows.

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Steven Ginsberg: Hello chatters. There's tons of ICC questions and comments, so let's get right to it.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Thank goodness the state has finally decided on a route. My question is: I've heard that the EPA favors the northern route, and they still have to issue their report. The ICC article pointed to Ehrlich's ties to the administration. Would these ties go as far as being able to lessen EPA's desire for the northern route?

By the way, I consider myself very environmentally aware. We hike all around Sandy Spring, and also around Meadowside Nature Center and Lake Needwood. I would put my environmental bona fides up against anyone's. But, we desperately need the ICC. Anyone with a lick of common sense and a map can see that.

Steven Ginsberg: Ehrlich and Transportation Secretary Bob Flanagan were both very confident yesterday that the EPA would approve the route they chose. They said more than once that they've been in constant contact with the feds and feel good about where they stand.

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Silver Spring, Md,: Did the Governor gain (or hope to gain) some political advantage by announcing the ICC's construction even though the project still awaits federal approval?

Steven Ginsberg: Well, what he announced was a preferred route, which the state has to do. I'm sure there will be some political advantage and some disadvantage that comes with such a high-profile project.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: I have always thought that building the ICC was a great idea. This area has grown so much in the last 10 years and I hear that it is expected to continue to grow, but yet no new highways or roads are built to help alleviate the traffic situation. I remember once in blue moon when commuting to downtown DC in the middle of the week from Gaithersburg, didn't take close to 2 hours. I believe this new project would help alleviate some of the traffic on the back roads and possible certain spots of 95 and 270.

Steven Ginsberg: This is the pro-ICC argument. That growth has occurred without the highway and it's high time it was built to handle all those new people and businesses. The people who oppose the road say it won't really solve any of your traffic problems because it'll just fill up with even more new people. They say the answer is to stop building out and move the people closer-in, near transit.

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Montgomery Village, Md.: Is making the ICC a toll road new? This is the first I have heard that the ICC would be a toll road.

Steven Ginsberg: No. It's been in the plans (and our articles) for some time. The plan is to have variable tolls that rise with traffic, so they can manage it. In theory, this prevents it from ever congesting so long as you're willing to pay a price. These types of tolls are all the rage and are being discussed on a lot of roads in this region and across the country.

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Frederick, Md.: The ink is barely dry on the ICC proposal, and already residents in Frederick and points north are wondering whether this road -- if it is ever built - will do us much good.

The idea, as I understand it, is to relieve traffic on local roads and take some of the burden off of 270. But ... most of the jams that happen on 270 in the morning happen because of a bottleneck of traffic trying to get on to the outer loop, toward Virginia or northern DC. The ICC likely won't help that situation at all.

It seems to me that the money being spent on the ICC is primarily going to benefit Montgomery County residents, who will find it marginally easier to drive to their local Starbucks. It's not a viable solution for the rest of us, though.

What we need, instead, is more investment in economic development that will bring good, professional jobs to Frederick and Washington Counties. Or how about more aggressive incentives to encourage telecommuting?

More roads are not the solution to the congestion problem. Better jobs closer to where commuters live IS the solution.

Any thoughts?

Steven Ginsberg: So there's no Starbucks in Frederick? State folks say this road will do what you're calling for: bring more economic development. It'll do it by connecting the I-270 corridor to BWI and Baltimore.

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Olney, Md.: Are the environmentalists going to seriously try and hijack this scaled-down ICC route, again? I'm growing sick and tired of their whining and I tend to consider myself an environmentalist.

Steven Ginsberg: They promised to yesterday. They are dead set against this road and are willing to use any means, including going to court, to slow its progress and try to stop it from being built. Gov. Ehrlich also seemed to be more than a little sick and tired of their whining yesterday, especially when they kept interrupting him.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: Why does The Post keep publishing the boo-hoo stories of people who completely ignored the fact that they live in the the path of the ICC? Why should we feel sorry for these people? They took a risk, ignoring the needs of the region as a whole, only thinking of their own selfish desires. Please publish the stories of the people who will save hours of time and possibly enable them to enjoy life a little more not being stuck in traffic or lower the risk of accidents traveling on a safer road - the majority of the population, like me.

Steven Ginsberg: We've run plenty stories about everyone that would be impacted by the ICC, including people who are expected to save time by using it. I think the decisions made by those people who admittedly gambled on the route are fascinating, especially in light of the region's hot real estate market.

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Crystal City, Va.: If the ICC is built, could this be the start of and outer beltway?

Steven Ginsberg: Yes it could. The road was originally on a map as part of an outer Beltway. That idea has diminished, but some say has been reborn as a series of shorter roads, including the ICC. Nevertheless, it's hard to see that happening any time soon. This one has taken 40 years and they're still not turning dirt yet.

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Springfield, Va.: Looking at the maps of the proposed ICC route, it doesn't take too much imagination to see that the Gaithersburg end lines up almost perfectly with the Leesburg end of the Fairfax County Parkway. What are the odds of the two roads eventually being connected? Is this the beginnings of an "outer beltway"? Will the folks in Potomac and Great Falls ever let such a thing happen?

Steven Ginsberg: The folks in Potomac and Great Falls and a lot of other places don't seem eager to have such a thing happen. It'll be interesting to see if anyone is ready for another big fight if and when this one ends.

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Urbana, Md.: Assuming that construction on the ICC is started next year, when will the road be open?

Steven Ginsberg: if it starts next year they're thinking 2010.

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University Park, Md,: How is the ICC going to impact the areas between 270 and 95?

Steven Ginsberg: Supporters of the road say it will increase business in those areas and make it easier for people who live there to move around. Opponents say it'll attract many more people to the area and make it harder for them to move around. It'll be interesting to see who's right.

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Rockville, Md.: How many homeowners are going to be displaced because of the ICC? Does the state/county intend to use imminent domain to kick people out of their homes?

Steven Ginsberg: 58 homes will be taken to build the road.

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Columbia, Md.: Why is there not more opposition to the notion that the ICC should be built as a toll road? I applaud Gov. Ehrlich for championing construction of a road that should have been built 30 years ago. However, I strongly believe that the road will not be utilized by commuters and trucking companies given the additional cost. Users would be triple taxed, when you include Gas taxes, State Taxes, and a toll which varies depending on utilization.

I live in Columbia and work in Rockville, so my daily commute would be reduced to 20-30 minutes, from the current 60-90 minutes. However, I strongly oppose construction as a toll road and would continue to use the back roads rather than pay the proposed five to seven dollars per use. I strongly suspect that the premise that commuters and trucking companies would utilize the road is false, when the financial effect of tolls is calculated into the equation.

Steven Ginsberg: I think there has been minimal opposition to the idea of tolling because without that revenue the road couldn't be built. So if you want the road, you have to live with the tolls. But you hit on a good point. Recently built toll roads have struggled, in some cases mightily, to attract as many drivers as they hoped for.

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Silver Spring, Md.: I'd like to offer my congratulations to Bob Ehrlich and Doug Duncan. I never thought they could succeed in ramming this ill-conceived, shortsighted and unnecessary monstrosity through official channels, but they did. If the ICC is built, it will ruin parks, change neighborhoods forever, and, most noticeably, will create more, not less, traffic and sprawl - which, ironically, its supporters claim it is proposed to alleviate. Not to mention it will likely cost $5 billion or more (see the Wilson bridge) to build when all is said and done. Well done, gentlemen!

Steven Ginsberg: We here in the transportation chat LOVE sarcasm! But we also like it to be accurate. The Wilson Bridge is estimated to cost $2.43 billion. The current estimate on the ICC is $2.4 billion before financing costs.

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Anonymous: environmentalists who block the ICC are just going to cause my suv to burn more gas when I get sick and tired of driving country back roads from gaithersburg to baltimore over driving all the way down 270 to the beltway, going around, then all the way back up 29/95/BWP.

What do they want?

It's absolutely insane that people between the beltway and 70 have to go either direction and dozens of extra miles just to cross this state on something other then a two lane dangerous road.

Steven Ginsberg: Just a wild guess here, but I think what they want is for you to get rid of your SUV, no matter what roads you're driving it on.

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Silver Spring, Md.: How do you anticipate the addition of the ICC to affect property values in the neighborhoods close by? Will it be an plus for commuters or will the excess traffic be a detracting factor? I am not speaking of areas that the ICC will be running directly through, but rather areas that are within a mile or two.

Steven Ginsberg: My colleague Katie Shaver wrote an interesting article about this a couple weeks ago. History says that highways don't help property values, and it seems like that would have to hold to a degree in this case. But the market here is so hot and people are so eager to live as close-in as they can that a highway may not have as much impact as in the past. Homes near other highways in other parts of the region seem to be selling just fine and in many places new homes are going up next to highways.

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Anonymous: Mark My words 90 percent of anti-growth anti-ICC protestors own houses and don't understand that middle class people cannot afford to buy in the region because of lack of inventory. Its going to become a tight little club of anti-growth homeowners and then the rest of us who can't afford 300K+ homes the lack of growth is causing.

Steven Ginsberg: To their credit, many of the people who oppose roads like the ICC also make a point of calling for more affordable housing. The problem seems to be one of space. If everyone is going to live close-in that's probably going to mean a lot of high-rise living. Otherwise, people will have to move further out to get a hold of the land they want.

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Damascus: When exactly did Mr. Duncan flip-flop on the Purple Line as a transportation alternative? I hope Dougie is ready for the unemployment line because it will be the day after never when he is elected governor of Maryland.

Steven Ginsberg: In his remarks yesterday, Duncan also called for building the Purple Line.

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Washington, D.C.: Do we know yet where the interchanges on the ICC will be? I've lived in states that have built major highways before, and there was always a lot of speculation on real estate around sights that were designated - or rumored - as interchanges.

Steven Ginsberg: They were listed as part of the map we ran in the paper today. I believe they are at Georgia Ave., Layhill Road, New Hampshire Ave., Route 29, I-95 and Route 1.

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Columbia, Md.: If part of the theory of the ICC is to improve connections to Baltimore and BWI why isn't the route further north into Howard County? This would eliminate the Prince George's opposition as well. If the road is built could we eventually see a northern spur paralleling 108 to 32?

Steven Ginsberg: I haven't heard anyone talk about a spur.

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Rockville, Md.: It interesting that no one has a problem with the ICC as long as it is not in their back yard. Well, it is about to come very close to where I live and I am angry. I do not care if this route was in a master plan 30 years ago. When they started allowing subdivisions to be built in the plan, they should have research better routes or removed the plan altogether. It seems no one cares that most of this road with run through subdivisions and I find it hard to believe that only "58" houses will be affected by a six lane road. Where are the environmental studies about noise pollution and how it will impact the home owners? For those who keeping commenting on us who will be affected by calling us "boo-hooers," I bet you would be doing the same if it was in your back yard. Why as home owners in the "ICC path" who worked hard to afford a nice place in a quite and safe neighborhood not complain

Steven Ginsberg: the other perspective...

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Hagerstown, Md.: So, should we view the decision to build the ICC as a decision not to devote more resources to public transportation? It seems like Gov. Ehrlich has hinged his transportation policy on this road ... and it's all or nothing.

Also, do you see any possibility of linking the ICC to a renewed push for slots? I'm thinking that Ehrlich might try to gain support for his slot plan by earmarking at least some of the money for this and other transit problems.

Steven Ginsberg: In a world of limited money, using this much money has to take away from other possible projects, transit or otherwise. Haven't heard of any connection to slots.

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Toll costs: $5 to $7 per use? I'm with that other poster. The most anyone will save with the ICC is a half hour. That's certainly not worth $7 a pop. I thought it would be more like $1 per use?

Speaking of, is the toll based on distance?

Steven Ginsberg: Those are someone else's figures. There's no telling what the toll will be at this point or whether they will be based on distance or if it'll be a flat fee for getting on the road.

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Columbia, Md.: With the comments about the eventual construction of an outer beltway I have a hard time believing the state of Maryland would ever go that route. An outer beltway would make it much easier for people in the Maryland suburbs to get to Dulles, which I would imagine would hinder the growth at state owned BWI. Or would the belief be that businesses in Virginia would move across the river? Any thoughts?

Steven Ginsberg: That's a legit perspective. Part of the rationale for the ICC is to stop all those people from Bethesda from using Dulles, which is right now as accessible to them as BWI. But an outer Beltway would run in both directions and could also help Maryland.

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Fairland, Md.: I see the ICC as an abomination. The environmental damage this will cause will destroy the last decent tracts of forest and ecosystems in central Montgomery County.

In addition, previous SHA studies have shown it will do very little to alleviate traffic on the Beltway.

The main traffic problems we have are radial to the city - that is where any improvements should be focused.

The last thing we need is is to divert resources that could be used for public transportation to such a monstrosity that will only encourage more people to drive.

Steven Ginsberg: How are you feeling after yesterday? Do you feel like you have any hope of stopping it?

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College Park, Md.: THANK YOU Ehrlich for finally taking a step towards getting this project moving. Traffic around DC is awful, that's certainly nothing new. I-95 is bad, I-270 is bad, 495 is as bad as the both of them...I'm sick of all the people complaining that building the ICC isn't going to solve the problems because its not the "right" solution. Why can't all these people wake up and realize that doing -something- is much better than what we have been doing, which is nothing. News flash- traffic isn't going to get better on its own. Building this road is a start, just for the simple fact that its evidence of state leaders recognizing the congestion problem and being willing to do something about it. Maybe not everyone likes this particular road, but honestly, I'd rather take a step towards improvement than have this road spend another 40 years under study.

Steven Ginsberg: This is close to Duncan's view. He says building the ICC is a huge part of the solution, but only one part of many other things that need to be done.

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Silver Spring, Md.: who was the einstein who decided that the southern route would affect fewer homes when it is chock-full of large housing developments? The northern route is much more rural.

Steven Ginsberg: The northern route would take 83 homes, instead of 58 along the southern route. I'm no einstein, but I think 58 is less.

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Rockville, Md.: The idea that there will tradeoffs if the ICC is going to be built is an important one.

In a state where school construction and renovation is being badly underfunded and the children's health fund is in danger of being guttted, it seems to me that it would be fairly easy for opponents of the ICC to drum up support for their cause.

Steven Ginsberg: That sort of argument was addressed indirectly yesterday when Duncan said that almost everything on planning maps has been built except for transportation projects. There's a feeling in Maryland that it's time to build something.

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Thurmont, Md.: Will the OCC get built without federal money? And, where will that money come from? Will it require Congressional approval? Or does the funding come from the Department of transportation?

Steven Ginsberg: The plan to build the road includes borrowing money against expected future federal money, as well as using existing state and federal funds. and, of course, toll revenue.

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Alexandria, Va.: Silly question: what kind of number designation will the ICC get? Will it be I-370? A Maryland highway? A U.S. highway?

Steven Ginsberg: Silly, but fun. I have no idea what number it'll get. It'd be fun to have a road with a fraction. So maybe I-270.63. That would throw MapQuest for a loop.

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Olney, MD (almost): Why do you focus your interviews primarily on homeowners with an ax to grind? I guess they make for good copy and controversy, right? I have NO sympathy for people who knew the path of the ICC four years ago, and bought anyway. I bought in Olney in 2001 specifically because of the planned ICC. I've been renting the house out, and now I plan to move in when the lease ends. And I consider myself to be an environmentalist as well. So please try to track down more people like me when you research your stories. Thanks.

Steven Ginsberg: Consider your voice heard, along with the tons of other pro-ICC residents we've included in stories over the many, many years we've covered this road.

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Hyattsville, Md.: Prince George's County really seems to be the loser in this deal. It is only facilitating the continued status of our county as a bedroom community for DC and the 270 corridor. Instead of making it easier for people to commute to MoCo, let's make it more attractive for businesses to locate where their workers can afford to live.

Steven Ginsberg: Here's one view on what the road will mean to PG...

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Rockville, Md.: Has it occurred to Duncan or others in Montgomery County that with the building of the ICC that perhaps we will see more business and residential "flight" from Montgomery County to Prince George's County where property values and property taxes are lower? My boss has already begun floating the idea of moving from an office that is less than 3 miles from my house to somewhere along the ICC route in PG County because he figures rent will be cheaper. Is this supposed to ease traffic by putting myself and my wife on the road with longer commutes to work? Also, where does PG County stand on all of this?

Steven Ginsberg: And here's another...

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Aspen Hill, Md.: Not everyone who bought a home near the route knew that the ICC could be built there. People should check the Master Plan before buying, but many people don't, either because of language barriers or just because it's not high on the list of things to do when you're closing on a home. Besides, remember that Glendening canceled it only a few years ago. Many people bought homes after that and before Ehrlich was elected, thinking that the ICC was dead.

Steven Ginsberg: That is true. But it also doesn't change the fact that it's a homeowner's responsibility to know about these things. Most that we've spoken to conceded that much, they just thought, or hoped, it would never be built.

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Washington, D.C.: As a lot of people here have pointed out, a major part of the congestion problem involves north-south traffic coming from the Maryland suburns into Virginia and DC.

Given that, would it make more sense to focus on building new bridges to cross the Potomac? Once people could actually get across the river, they'd have a lot of existing road options. Now, the way things are set up, there is a natural bottleneck, because if you are going south, you have to cross at the American Legion Bridge.

Steven Ginsberg: The truth is I really don't know. Another bridge would provide more capacity, but could just encourage people to live further from their jobs.

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Shady Grove, Md.: I recognize that part of the solution is to live close to where you work, but that's not always practical with a 2 job family. One other way to look at the ICC is whether you want someone like me commuting from Baltimore to Shady Grove through your community on the back roads at 50 mph or whether you want a limited access highway, where your kids won't be playing, near your neighborhood. This road might actually help those in the Frederick area who work for FDA (currently Shady Grove/Rockville) that now have to find a way to White Oak. Talk about a rotten commute and a rotten deal.

Steven Ginsberg: True enough. There are lots of reasons people have long commutes and my experience is that very few of them are because people want McMansions on dozens of acres. Most people I talk to would prefer to live cloer-in, but can't afford the type of home they want or have other factors to consider.

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Germantown: Can you clarify something? From the maps, it looks like the ICC will connect to that is now known as "sam Eig Highway." It's I-370, which basically runs between Shady Grove Metro and Great Seneca Highway.

Is that going to be the connecting point from I-270, as far as you can tell?

Steven Ginsberg: yes

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Columbia, Md.: With the significant long-term financial commitment required, how will other needed projects such as the Purple Line, Metro expansion to BWI and alternatives to an aging Bay Bridge be impacted? On a side note, isn't it a bit ironic that to save money and avoid sensitive areas the administration has proposed converting the Purple Line to a bus system but they are mentioning putting a Metro line along part of the Parkway.

Steven Ginsberg: I believe the ICC will consume something like 15 to 20 percent of future federal funds for a number of years. That will limit the state's ability to do other projects since most transportation money comes from the federal government.

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Liberty, Md.: Can you explain the rationale for ending the ICC at I-95? It seems like it make more sense to continue on an connect it to the Beltway.

Steven Ginsberg: It's actually going to end at Route 1 and I think the belief is that 95 is as good as the Beltway and that they don't want it to loop too far south.

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Silver Spring, Md.: What about a proposed hiker biker trail along the ICC route?

Steven Ginsberg: The bike trail that was supposed to mirror the highway has been cut as a way to save money. There will be trails near much of the highway, but not the whole thing.

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Steven Ginsberg: I hate to do it, especially with a load of interesting questions left, but I've got to run and write another story. Thanks for your interest in the ICC. I'm sure we'll have a chance to chat about it again soon.

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