Embarrassing calls at work. Threats of jail and even violence. Improper withdrawals from bank accounts.
Washington Post reporter Caroline E. Mayer was online to discuss consumer complaints related to a new breed of debt collectors.
Read her story: As Debt Collectors Multiply, So Do Consumer Complaints . She also offers tips to understand what's allowed and what isn't: To Protect Their Rights, Consumers Should Understand the Rules of Debt Collection .
____________________
Caroline E. Mayer: Hello everybody. Glad to be here and chat about debt collectors. I see there are a lot of questions already--many from people who've had really unpleasant experiences. I'll try to get to as many questions as I can.
Before I get to the questions, I've got a couple other comments to add to my story.
Today, the Federal Trade Commission won a $10.2 million judgment against a debt-collection operation, National Check Control. It's the largest judgment in FTC's history for violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. The company--which apparently bought the debt, in this case for bounced checks--sent threatening letters and falsely threatened consumers with civil or criminal charges if they didn't pay up. In many cases, the FTC said the consumers didn't owe the money--or owed far less than NCC claimed....Sounds just like what I wrote about this morning.
On another note, my first phone call this morning asked me about the statute of limitations and how people could find out if their old debt was past the time limit in which they could be sued. A good Website to check that out is: http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/statuteLimitations.shtml
Hope this answers some questions already....
_______________________
Adams Morgan: This article was amazing. I have a friend who tells me about his problems (it actually IS a friend in this case) with creditors calling him at work, harassing him, threatening legal action, and telling him non-existent agencies are coming to seize his wages. What can someone do in this situation to get the harassment to stop?; I mean, if he had enough money to get an attorney, he could just pay the debt off. Thanks.
Caroline E. Mayer: How to get the harassment to stop seems to be the question being asked today. Unfortunately there's no easy solution--which is why you are all asking the question.
Here's the advice from the FTC: First, get the address of people who are calling and then WRITE them a letter insisting they stop (that's assuming of course that you have a valid reason such as you don't owe the debt or the statute of limitations has expired).
Then, write everyone you can think of about your problem. That includes the FTC, your state's attorney general's office, the Better Business Bureau--and send copies to the company as well.
Unfortunately these places can't solve individual complaints but do go after big offenders (as illustrated by CAMCO and the case the FTC just announced today). And unfortunately it takes them a while to bring cases. So you may want to see if you can find a lawyer who will also help, at reasonable fees...
_______________________
Milford, Maine: Hi Caroline,
Thanks for all the useful consumer protection info in today's paper!;
We receive collection calls for two people: a previous owner of our home who defaulted on some debts, and a man who had our phone number before it was assigned to us. Despite the fact that we are not affiliated with either debtor in any way, we continue to receive collection calls for both, some of them very rude.
We've called back the collectors who leave voicemails, told all of them that we don't know the debtors, and asked that they please stop calling. Yet some continue to do so. Any ideas on how to get them to stop calling, other than reciting the useful consumer protection rules you provided and calling the FTC when needed?; And why would debt collectors continue to call the wrong number for over a year when we have made it clear that we do not know the person they are trying to contact?; It seems like such a waste of their time and energy too.
Thanks!;
Caroline E. Mayer: It is a waste of their time, but apparently they get lucky enough some of the time to persist in their calls. If you haven't done so already,I'd follow the steps I just outlined--putting your complaints in writing and contacting the agencies I mentioned. It doesn't seem fair that the burden falls to you, but right now that seems to be the best way to try to stop the calls.
_______________________
Washington, DC: I think I've been a victim of a "zombie-debt" collection agency. I got a letter from an agency saying that I owed money for a credit card that I haven't had since college (10 years ago). I wrote them a letter saying I believed their claim was false, that I checked with the Better Business Bureau and found that their company had over 200 complaints, most unresolved and that if they could not provide me with proof of debt within 30 days of receiving my letter, the matter should be dropped.
This was two months ago. I never got any written proof, so I thought it was over. However, I came home the other night to find a message on my answering machine telling me to call a number about "a personal financial matter". It was the same 800 as that agency. How do I get them to stop?; As an aside, how do we tell the difference between actual legal documents and those that are just supposed to scare us?;
Caroline E. Mayer: I guess, and consider this is from a consumer, not a lawyer with expertise, I'd be inclined to ignore any message left for me asking to call about a personal financial matter.
You can try sending another round of letters. BTW, these letters should probably be sent by certified mail and you should keep copies of these all.
As for how to tell legal documents, if it's a real legal document it should have the name of a court on it--if it doesn't, it probably isn't (unless it's for arbitration and that's a whole different story--don't ignore those!). If it does have a court on it, call the court to make sure it's legit.
_______________________
MD: ok, the examples you cited ARE over the top, but my first instinct is: HEY - you aren't paying your bills and you SHOULD be embarrassed about it. Part of me longs for the time when people used to feel shame for not paying their own way. The bills you don't pay means that someone out there might not be able to pay their own.
sorry - vent over.
Caroline E. Mayer: You are right--and that's largely the arguments that the collectors give. However, what I've heard from plaintiff attorneys and regulators is that there are a growing number of collectors who are going over the top, trying among other things to get money from people who never had the debt in the first place.
_______________________
Austin, TX: Hello Caroline,
My sister is a reporter for the Post and forwarded me your article. I have a question:
I was called yesterday by a law office claiming I owe them $4,000 on behalf of Citibank. I did have a Citibank card from 1998-2000 which had a limit on it of $300. This account was charged off as bad debt by Citibank with a balance of $287.
The man on the phone from the law office threatened, harassed, etc. I called Citibank and they said that I don't owe them a dime. What can I do to get the law firm to understand that I am in no way giving them $4,000 when Citibank themselves said I don't owe any money?; Do I have to pay these creeps?;
-Patrick
Caroline E. Mayer: Patrick, from the little I know about your situation, my guess is you don't owe Citibank because it wrote the debt off--and sold it to the person who's now collecting. Whether or not the debt is valid, it seems to me from your brief explanation that even if it is valid, the collector is seeking WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY too much money for the $287.
I'd check your statute of limitations in the state where you live and then figure out how to proceed. If the debt is past the time limit, then write the collector that--again in certified mail and keep the records.
_______________________
20009: Obviously, a single complaint to the FTC isn't going to put an immediate stop to a company calling me at work (especially when I've already repeatedly ask this company to stop). What can I do that will have an impact right away?; I mean, I can't afford to sue the debt collector on my own. And no matter how much I attempt to make clear that I know my rights (demanding written information, stating that the statute of limitations has passed, etc), these guys won't give their threats a rest.
Caroline E. Mayer: That's a tough question--and like a lot that I haven't gotten to yet. If you've followed all the other steps I've listed above--including certified letters to the collectors--and gotten no redress and were desperate, I guess it would be time to seek a lawyer and see if he/she can give you any better advice.
_______________________
Alexandria, VA: Scary that they're trying to get parents, relatives to pay old debts for other people. that's completely illegal right?; The only thing I can think of is that if that person is deceased their estate has to pay outstanding debts. Otherwise, lost.
Caroline E. Mayer: You are absolutely right. In the case I talked about this morning, the Lanham resident who was pressed to pay her mother's deceased debt for buying a home security system--the estate would have had to pay --assuming the estate had any money. But I gather it didn't. From the lawsuit, it looks like the daughter agreed to go ahead and pay the debt anyway, even though she wasn't responsible for it...so again, if you receive any requests for debts, yours or a relative, know your rights before you do anything.
_______________________
DC: Hi -- I think you missed a point... with the new bankruptcy laws for consumers SO much tougher, most people are/will be forced to put up with the harassment by collectors, and collectors know this and feel freer to be even more aggressive.. their victims no longer have any defense... the bankruptcy bill was a total shaft of the working class for this reason alone, among many others!;!;!;
Caroline E. Mayer: That's what many people fear-but the incidents I wrote about and heard about took place long before the bankruptcy bill was even passed. I'd love to hear from you all in the future about your experiences (good and bad),from collectors and creditors, especially as we get close to October--and afterwards, when the new bankruptcy bill goes into effect.
_______________________
Frederick, Maryland: Expanding on what one of the previous posted stated, when you receive calls that are intended for previous owners of a telephone number, would having you number on the DNC registry make any difference?;
Caroline E. Mayer: Good question. I'm not sure, but I suspect the collector would say he/she has a business relationship with you--or at least thought they did, so that they could still call you even if you're on the do-not-call list.
_______________________
Baltimore, Maryland: Hi. I have a debt, which I dispute. Either the creditor keeps trying different debt collectors, or the debt keeps being resold. At least 5 times I have received notice of the claimed debt, and I have disputed it within the 30 days, providing my backup support and documentation. I never hear anything until a new company tries the same thing, and the process repeats. Recently, a new collection company contacted me and I didn't respond within the 30 days. Have I lost my rights?; Aren't they abusing the rules?; Thanks for your thoughts.
Caroline E. Mayer: Sounds like you are caught in the debt-buyer cycle. One expert told me that debts sometimes get sold seven times--and each time you get a new call. It may be too late, but it wouldn't hurt--if you have the documentation--to follow up with the original creditor to get these calls to stop now (and also file a complete detailed report to FTC, your state attorney, BBB, etc)...I don't know about the effect of missing your 30 day window. I'd be inclined to still send a certified letter--and also monitor your mail carefully in case they do follow up with any legal action.
Again, do not ignore notices requiring arbitration. Those are as valid as a lawsuit and have forced some consumers to pay debts they contested.
_______________________
Washington D.C.: PLEASE HELP!;!; These agencies have unbelievable power that they abuse, leaving consumers feeling totally helpless. I recently pulled my credit report and saw that a $132 charge is listed as a "collection account" being handled by NCO collection agency, supposedly unpaid for the past few years. I have learned from NCO that it is for a medical bill from 1999 that was supposedly given to NCO in 2002, but NO ONE has ever tried to collect this from me -- not the doctor, and not NCO. NCO claims they did not know how to reach me. Obviously this is damaging my credit substantially!;!; And of course I would have paid this if I had known of it. What should I do?; NCO is totally unhelpful and could not be more rude if they tried. Thank you for any advice.
Caroline E. Mayer: This is a complaint I have heard from several plaintiff attorneys --that collectors ding a credit report and most consumers don't know it until they review their report...Which brings up another good point: Check your credit reports regularly--at least once a year for each of the three major credit bureaus. That's free now for Maryland residents and will be free to all East Coast residents in September.
As for the debt you found on your report, do you think you owe it? If it's totally bogus, again, do the steps I outlined above.
_______________________
Herndon, VA: Dear Caroline,
How do you find out the statute of limitations on a medical debt?; I called the Va Attorney General's office and they were no help. I went to the link at the top of the page and I'm not sure what category of debt medical bills fall into. Thanks.
Caroline E. Mayer: That's a good question and I'm sorry I don't know the answer. Another site that may is budhibbs.com Budd Hibbs, from Texas, has always been extremely critical of collectors (and vice versa), perhaps because the site has some useful consumer tips.
_______________________
Santa Rosa, Ca.: Caroline,
Two close friends who suffered credit problems have run into a new twist: after settling the debts (for less than the original amount) Citibank then reported the original debt as income to the IRS. This of course increased the tax liability they had to pay.
Have you ever heard of such things in other states?; Is this legal?;
Thanks
Caroline E. Mayer: Yep. This is a big deal in the industry--and is legit as I understand it.
_______________________
Indianapolis, IN: Just a comment/story:
As a potential victim of CAMCO -- they called me several
times last year trying to collect on a 17-year-old, non-
existent credit card debt -- it's amazing how persistent
they can be. I did get a bit of satisfaction however.
After CAMCO's initial call, I went to the FTC web site and
downloaded the Commission's news release about their
initial lawsuit against CAMCO. When their collector called
again, I allowed her to make her spiel, then began
reading the FTC news release to her. At the bottom of the
release, I told her, was the name and contact info for the
FTC enforcement officer. "I believe I'm going to be giving
him a call," I told her before hanging up.
I haven't heard back from CAMCO since, although I have
had some nice follow-up discussions with FTC staff.
I considered it a victory for the little people.
Caroline E. Mayer: Thanks for the input
_______________________
Duluth, Georgia: I was receiving collection calls for a person who does not live at my residence. I asked to speak to the supervisor at the collection agency to inform them that this person cannot be reached at this telephone number.
The supervisor told that they spent a lot of money to find this telephone number and that they knew that the person was at this (my number) and that unless I faxed or mailed them a copy of my telephone bill showing that the telephone bill was in my name and not the name of the person that they were looking for that they were legally entitled to call once a day, each day.
I told him that he had to be crazy if I would share this much information with strangers and to please not waste their time or my time by continuing to make these calls.
I was told that I should expect to continue to receive the collection calls if I did not provide my telephone billing information as suggested by the supervisor.
I subsequently had my telephone number reassigned to another non-published telephone number.
Guess what?; I started receiving collection calls for a man that I did not know at the new number. But this collector has been more reasonable and terminated the calls once I told them that this was a newly assigned telephone number for me.
How often do non-involved persons like me get caught up in receiving collection calls at their home about strangers who may have once had the same address or telephone number?; My gut says that this is not a unique situation to me.
Caroline E. Mayer: Wow, too bad you had to change your own number to get rid of the calls, only to be harassed again! I just attended the annual convention of debt collectors in Washington and learned about all the sophisticated ways collectors have to track debtors. Apparently they used those ways to track your number even if you were the wrong person.
I'm with you--I wouldn't give any personal info the collector as well if I wasn't the person the collector was looking for. But again, I'd send certified letters to the collector and complaints to the FTC, state attorney general and BBB to tell them why collector should quit calling you.
_______________________
Reston, VA - Please help me with these list callers: I have been receiving abusive phone calls from a 3rd party company that apparently buys some kind of old debt lists and calls looking for them. Unfortunately, we bought the house from a family that had been there 30 years, and this was not the person they were looking for, apparently our new phone # got recycled and used to be this debtors phone number. Instead, I get harassing calls at all hours of the day and night, telling me I'm lying, that I am really this person they are looking for, that they are coming for me etc. When I told them to stop calling, he said they will never stop calling because I'm a deadbeat and I have no rights.
What kind of company can get away with this?; Should I start recording these calls and get an attorney involved?;
Caroline E. Mayer: Please see the above answer. I hope that helps.
_______________________
Bethesda, MD: Last October I started getting calls asking for "Frank Smith" -- my condo neighbor. I could see from my caller ID it was a debt collection company. I told the caller they had the wrong number. My neighbor only has a cell phone and they apparently were trying to track him down through his closest neighbor. I've had numerous calls (from the same company) over the past 6 months - each time I tell the caller they do not have the correct number for "Mr. Smith" and they say they will not call again -- but they do. What can I do to stop this?;
Caroline E. Mayer: Your question came in before I had a chance to answer the previous two but I think my answer would be the same..Good luck
_______________________
Reston, VA: I've recently been swamped with hospital bills for a procedure that my insurance company admits should be paid 100% by the insurance company. They admit to having mis-processed the claim and would re-submit, however I continue to get calls from the hospital and others on the unpaid claim. They are threatening collection.
Question: Would it be better to pay them off and avoid collection agencies etc, then hope to collect from my insurance company?; Or should I hold fast and keep pressuring my insurance company to pay the claims?;
Caroline E. Mayer: I'd be inclined to hold fast and put pressure on your insurance company to pay right away--that's also assuming you don't need to refinance or get a mortgage anytime soon where your credit report may be checked
_______________________
Phoenix, AZ: I have been involved for the past year with such a debt buyer. To date, the debt buyer has been unable to provide any "title" to the ownership of the debt. We held a trial before a justice of the peace judge and she refused to consider anything to verify the debt, such as a bill of sale. A judgment was issued stating that we owed this debt buyer the monies claimed. Our objection was this complaint was filed before the debt buyer even reviewed the account. They pulled a credit report on my husband and myself and determined, based on our credit report, that we would want to settle this account merely to save our credit rating.
I would have loved to have heard how this is being played out. This debt buyer has put a huge black mark on our credit report and we decided to fight it and see it through.
Caroline E. Mayer: Let me know how your case turns out.
Again, everyone, I'd like to hear your concerns, especially as we near the implementation of the new bankruptcy law. Write me at mayerc@washpost.com
_______________________
Santa Rosa, Ca.: Caroline
You responded to my previous question with:
Caroline E. Mayer: Yep. This is a big deal in the industry--and is legit as I understand it.
Can you tell me more about why it's a big deal and whether it's controversial enough that it could be stopped?; I think it is incredibly unfair.
Thanks again.
Caroline E. Mayer: I think the industry thinks it's a lot of paperwork and burdensome, but I gather they are responding to an IRS ruling which considers forgiven debt income--So it's up to you/your friend if I recall--to decide if you want to fight.
_______________________
Caroline E. Mayer: Gotta run now. Thanks all for the questions. I hope I answered some of your concerns.
Caroline
_______________________
Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.
