The Documentary is Part of the "American Masters" Series on PBS
David Steinberg and Kyra Thompson
Actor, Director, Comedian and Writer, Producer, Director
Thursday, July 21, 2005
1:00 PM
The American Masters film "Bob Newhart: Unbuttoned" features the life and career of Bob Newhart. It aired on PBS on Wednesday, July 20, at 9 p.m. ET (check local listings).
In the late 1950s, a Chicago accountant who was trying to make some extra money began doing local radio sketches. By 1960, "The Button-Down Mind" -- recorded before he even stepped onto the stand-up circuit -- hit gold as Album of the Year and won a Grammy for Best New Artist. "The Bob Newhart Show" and, later, "Newhart," portraying the quintessential sane man caught in a world of zany characters gone mad, were viewing staples throughout the '70s and '80s. Newhart still performs up to 40 stand-up dates a year and was recognized with a 2004 Emmy nomination for his first dramatic role on "ER."
Actor, director and comedian David Steinberg and writer, producer and director Kyra Thompson were online Thursday, July 21, at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the life and career of Bob Newhart and the American Masters documentary "Bob Newhart: Unbuttoned," which airs on PBS on Wednesday, July 20, at 9 p.m. ET.
Second only to Bob Hope in appearances on Carson's "The Tonight Show," David Steinberg has directed shows such as "Friends," "Newhart," "Seinfeld," "Mad About You," and most recently Larry David's "Curb Your Enthusiasm" for HBO. His film credits include "Paternity" with Burt Reynolds, "Going Berserk" with John Candy, and "The Wrong Guy" with Dave Foley. Steinberg's film credits include "Paternity" with Burt Reynolds, "Going Berserk" with John Candy, and "The Wrong Guy" with Dave Foley. He is currently directing episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm for 2005, chronicling the Texas gubernatorial ambitions of Kinky Friedman and creating and hosting "Comedy Talk with David Steinberg," a series for TVland.
Kyra Thompson is a writer, producer and director of documentary films. She was nominated for an Emmy, a Directors Guild Award and an Independent Spirit award for her work on "Dying to Tell the Story," a film about war journalists as seen through the eyes of the sister of photographer Dan Eldon, who was killed while on assignment in Somalia. Thompson most recently completed "Stand Up: A Summer at Comedy Camp," about at-risk youth who learn to heal through laughter, which aired on PBS in 2002. Also on PBS in 2002, Thompson helmed a new series titled Global Tribe, focusing on social entrepreneurs in emerging countries.
The transcript follows.
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David Steinberg: Hi! David Steinberg here. I'll be happy to answer any questions that you have about Bob that I can answer. I'm just not good on dates. But otherwise I'll answer as best I can.
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Arlington, Va.: When did you decide to make this film? Was it the first time this aired and how did you decide to feature Bob Newhart? Thank you.
Kyra Thompson: The idea for the film started almost a year ago. I had wanted to do an American Masters for some time and spoke with the series creator Susan Lacy about possibilities. I grew up watching The Bob Newhart Show on Saturday nights with my family and also knew many of his routines from his albums so I had always been a fan. Previous to this documentary I had done a film about at-risk youth who attended a comedy camp to learn from famous comics about how to do stand-up. I interviewed a lot of comedians for that film and loved hearing them talk about their process. SO I began to think of comedians who would make for a great American Masters subject and Bob Newhart was at the top of that list.
Last night was the premier of the film. I believe it will air again on local stations later in the week.
Thanks for your question.
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Bowie, Md.: I know we're here to talk about Bob (I mean, my God, Button down Mind is still funny today!) but here's one for David: what's it like directing hit sitcoms? Is it more technical than artistic (picking shots, etc. as opposed to character) or is it like being a movie director and starting fresh with each script? I'd think that, with established characters and situations, there must be some sort of art to pulling it all together and making it all look so easy, which I know it isn't. Thanks and congrats on the career, really used to enjoy your standup!
David Steinberg: These are good questions about directing on television. Television directing is not at all like movie directing. It's much more collaborative. The executive producer and the star are usually the auteurs of the show. Directors in a lot of cases come and go. The integrity of the show, of going too far or not going far enough, are usually in the hands of the executive producer and whoever the star is. However, if you have a long run as a director on a show, that is doing 20 shows or more, your participation is usually a lot more. That is, you would be in the writing room with the writers and executive producer, you would be negotiating what works and doesn't work with them, and you would be lining up shots. The reason there is a difference technically between movie and sitcom directing - what we're talking about with Newhart, Seinfeld, Mad About You and other shows like them are shows filmed in front of an audience - and when shows are filmed in front of an audience, the cameras have to stay out of the way of the audience so the audience can see what is going on. So the angles and the lenses are usually preordained, so you have less flexibility than in a movie where you can put the camera wherever you want. I hope this isn't too complicated. Generally, if you remember my standup days, I talk too much! I hope that answers your question.
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Chantilly, Va.: Mr. Steinberg:
You told a joke on TV years ago that I consider one of the funniest ever. Last Tango in Paris had recently come out and you said you'd rewrite the scene so that Imperial Margarine was used, and a crown popped up on her head. Recall it? I can't seem to find any humor books that you've written. Are there any? And finally, what, to you, is the funniest religion or religious practice?
David Steinberg: Thank you for that! The Last Tango In Paris, I actually did four albums and that was on one of my albums. Basically, the Last Tango piece was me seeing the movie and not knowing anything about it ahead of time. And ending up saying that they'd have to spatula my fingers off of the screen. And yes, I did make an allusion to the buttering scene. As for religion, this is dangerous territory. But I will tell you this -- Johnny Carson used to always gauge whether I had good material or not, by how quickly I said "Jew" in the monologue. If Jew came up too fast, it was like a mother in law joke used too much, and he knew I had weak material to come. So I guess to Jews, Jews are funny.
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Arlington, Va.: What, in your opinion, is Bob's best routine ever?
Kyra Thompson: It's so hard to say which routine of Bob's is his best. But, if pressed, I would have to say Abraham Lincoln vs. Madison Avenue, which is also Bob's favorite piece of writing. It is so funny listening to the press agent try to explain to a slightly dim-witted President how to best market himself. As Bob has said, it's probably truer today than when he originally wrote it in 1958.
I also happen to love The Man Who Looked Like Hitler. Just to see Bob's facial expressions when he believes he is seated next to Adolf Hitler on an airplane is priceless.
There is also another routine where Bob is a reporter trying to do a story on a nudist colony and takes his clothes off so he will blend in better. This routine wasn't in the film but it is hilarious to see Bob trying to act casual while he is clearly so uncomfortable being in the buff (not for real of course).
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Port Washington, N.Y.: Kyra, I've always loved Bob Newhart and I loved your film. Thank you. I'm just wondering how you managed to get through all those interviews without laughing out loud and spoiling the shot!
Kyra Thompson: Thank you for your comments. Yes it was VERY hard not to laugh out loud during the interviews with all these comic legends, including David. I had to muffle countless giggles and, in fact, if you listen very closely, you can hear me snort a little during one of David Hyde Pierce's answers ( I think the one where he describes Bob's slow-burn take to a "slow, damp, smokey fizzle.")
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Omaha, Neb.: Mr. Newhart describes himself as a minimalist and others describe him in the context of "reactive" and his ability to use silence and expressions to convey his humor.
Benny and Carson along with many silent comedians were also known for these abilities, but Mr. Newhart is possibly the best at combining these traits.
Is there anyone who follows today who demonstrates this approach to comedy or has it become a lost art?
David Steinberg: I'm sure there are other comedians who react well on television, I can't think of them right now. It's not a lost art, it's just a unique talent. Newhart had it, Carson had it, Jack Benny had it, George Burns had it. And basically, you're getting your laugh representing the audience's point of view by reacting to the craziness around you. But it's not a specific kind of comedy that has disappeared at all. It's just how different comedians are from one another. Steven Wright and Dick Shawn were very visual comedians, not in their expressions, but in the language they used to convey their stories. There are comedians who can mimic and do impressions. Incidentally, one of the side notes on Newhart is that he is a great mimic, he can do anyone. He does Rickles well, Ed Sullivan, he has own repertoire. I, on the other hand, as a comedian, have no range whatsoever. I can't do sounds, I can't mimic anyone, I'm amazed that I'm here talking to you. But in answer to your question, it's just a style of comedy. And it's how some comedians just are.
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New Carrollton, Md.: My husband and I are big fans of Bob Newhart as well as you, Mr. Steinberg and, now, Ms. Thompson. The documentary was wonderfully done, really getting across what was so special and groundbreaking about Newhart and why he's still so terrific. [I thought he was rooked of an Emmy for his "ER" guest work].
So really, there's no question here, just a thank you for the wonderful evaluation of a superb career that is, happily, still ongoing. Oh, and Mr. Steinberg, I still crack up thinking of your "Moses" sketch.
David Steinberg: What a wonderful post! Thanks!
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Herndon, Va.: I was in college when Mr. Newhart's albums first came out -- still have them stored with my other "classic" LPs. Bob appears to be an "average" man, who also is hysterically funny. Would you agree?
David Steinberg: That was the point I made over and over again on television last night. And no one would disagree with that.
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Arlington, Va.: Kyra, what kinds of responses/feedback have you received about the program so far? How much time was involved in the filmmaking process? Thank you.
Kyra Thompson: We have gotten wonderful responses to the film and I think a lot of that is testament to the fact the Bob is just so well-liked by audiences and critics alike. As we were doing the interviews for the film no one had anything bad to say about Bob and that seems to have carried over to this film.
It took about 6-7 months to do this program. Normally these shows take longer, but we had an air date looming. This one was so much fun to do, though, that the timeframe didn't really matter. We spent most of the days laughing while we "worked."
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Bethesda, Md.: Bob Newhart's stand-up and television shows always felt like gentle humor, rather than overtly cutting edge or in your face, like some brilliant works of Carlin, Pryor, Klein. I would be interested in your thoughts as to whether you think Bob Newhart could have become a start working up through the ranks today.
David Steinberg: Good question. Humor that is gentle or dark is still humor. And you still need to carve out a little piece of comic territory. In a way it was harder in the sixties because there was no real precedent for the kind of humor that Bob was doing. And in a way it was easier because people weren't tired of seeing bad comedians. But as to whether Bob Newhart could succeed if he was starting right now, I would say the answer is yes, but with luck, which every comedian needs to get started.
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Manassas, Va.: I'm sorry I missed the show, and look forward to catching the repeat. My question: Bob did a variety series in the early 1960's. Do copies exist, or did it go the way of most taped variety shows of that era (erased)? Were you able to include clips in the documentary?
Kyra Thompson: Yes we included many clips from that early variety show. The old kinescopes are archived at UCLA so we were able to get fairly clean masters. It was great to see all those old routines. Bob did perform some of his classics from his albums on that show, but he also did a great deal of new material so it was a treat to go through it all. We even found one clip - which is in the show - where his wife-to-be (Ginnie) was an extra in one of the sketches.
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Harrisburg, Pa.: "Curb Your Enthusiasm" is one of the greatest shows of all time. It must be a difficult show to direct, as it comes across as a show with no direction, what must be hard to accomplish as a director. What is the secret?
David Steinberg: As it was definitely a daily pleasure to go to work with someone as funny as Bob Newhart, it is equally pleasurable to work with someone as funny as Larry David. If you don't notice the direction and you're just in the story, the director is doing a good job. So I suppose that's a compliment that it doesn't feel directed. However, it's not a selling point I would ask my agent to use. It is a difficult show to direct if you're not used to improvisation. For directors who are used to it, there is hardly any comedy television directing that is as much hands on and total involving and as much fun.
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David Steinberg: It's as much about listening as about lining up shots.
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Oklahoma City, Okla.: David Steinburg discussing Bob Newhart? In the world of humour, that's like Madison discussing Washington.
David, you are a very funny guy and a terrific writer. I feel fortunate to be old enough to have watched you perform on the Carson show, and of course I honestly don't remember a time without Bob Newhart. What a treasure.
But I've always wanted to know if Newhart's first sitcom (with Suzanne Pleshette) served as an inspiration for Seinfeld? So many similarities: The apartment complex setting; their single friend, Roger the pilot, behaving a lot like Cramer. Jerry the neurotic dentist/George, just so very neurotic.
Anyway, I'm glad to have this opportunity to tell you how much I've enjoyed your work and to thank you for the laughs.
David Steinberg: Thank you! Everything good influences everything else that's good. There is so much fake funny out there that's it hard for people to recognize real funny. Newhart was genuinely funny as was Seinfeld.
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NYC: Loved watching the show last night. I'd forgotten about the surprise appearance by Suzanne Pleshette at the end of the second Newhart series. Classic.
Is Newhart as nice a guy as he seems? Pleshette seemed to hint that there was a darker side to him ...
Kyra Thompson: He really is as nice a guy as he seems. He's very low key and extremely humble about all his achievements. I don't know that Suzanne was indicating a darker side to him, but I do think that there are always more layers to people than we realize. Bob is a private person and, as Suzanne said, keeps some of himself to himself. My experience with him was as an incredibly generous person who is still very enthused about life and about his work. He does say that he doesn't like to analyze his comedy too much though because then you run the risk of ruining it.
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Washington, D.C.: I feel the ending of "Newhart" must be considered one of the best television scenes of all time (right up there with Lucy and the chocolate belt). Do you agree? AND ... Do you see any current comics/actors with the staying power of Mr Newhart? Perhaps Mr Seinfeld?
David Steinberg: Again, to refer to my mentor Johnny Carson, Johnny used to feel that, and I agree with him, that being ahead of the time as a comedian is the same as being behind the time. It means you're missing your moment. Newhart's two shows were right for two decades which is pretty amazing. And Seinfeld was perfectly on time with his show. And yes there are comedians who will do it over and over again. Ray Romano is another example. A well written show, a likeable funny star that's right for this time. And it goes on.
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Washington, D.C.: With such a rich body of work provided by Mr. Newhart, and the many talented people with whom he worked, how were you able to narrow it all down to a couple hours? Was there anything, or any interviews or segments that were cut that you would have liked to keep in?
Kyra Thompson: That's always the challenge with films like this because you want to make sure you're doing justice to the subject matter while still making the story move along. I would have loved to include even more of Bob's early routines and television appearances, but I tried to take a listen from Bob - the master of comic timing - by leaving the audience wanting more. I hope we learned that lesson well.
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Laurel, Md.: Newhart's first series (the Chicago psychologist one) was the 9:30 entry of the "greatest night in the history of TV" on CBS, running after All in the Family, MASH and Mary Tyler Moore.
The other three series were part of a deliberate effort by CBS to update the TV sitcom from the Gilligan's Island/Beverly Hillbillies generation of cornball humor that had fallen behind the times.
But Newhart's show doesn't seem in any way different from previous sitcoms, except in being well-written and full of good characters.
Or am I missing some revolutionary aspect of it?
David Steinberg: Well when you say "except for being well written and full of characters", the assumption seems to be that that's easy to do. That in and of itself is revolutionary. The odd thing for me is,as you say, there was a golden age of television. But what is remembered today and what is played over and over again are the Gilligan Island, Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres sitcoms. Which have sort of a pop art campy feel to them. But were never considered critically right at their moment.
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Vienna, Va.: I have to disagree with Bethesda. I think the commentary in Newhart is actually very cutting edge. I always have seen Newhart as a critique of modernity. Yes, he's subtle, and low-key, but that's what makes him all the more powerful. Would you agree?
David Steinberg: Yes.
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Detroit, Mich.: Hello -- I saw the show and enjoyed it very much. However, while Newhart's comic talents were analyzed to a fare-thee-well, I thought one essential element was left out ... his eyes. Has there ever been anyone--except maybe for Keaton -- who possessed a pair of more expressive and laugh-inducing eyes? And has anyone (serious or comic) ever used them more effectively? That statue in Chicago should have been devoted to his eyes. Everyone would know what it means ... and everyone would laugh.
David Steinberg: I worked with Bob for ten years and never noticed his eyes that much. Go know.
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Herndon, Va.: How far back do Tom Poston and Bob go? I remember watching Poston for years on a game show I can no longer remember and I loved him. When I discovered he had a role on Newhart I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It was a little bit like watching Jonathan Winters and Robin Williams having at on Mork and Mindy.
David Steinberg: I don't know exactly when Tom and Bob met but it would go back to the sixties at least. Tom not only is a great golfer, but tells the dirtiest jokes in town. And no I can't repeat any. Tom is usually very quiet and then will go shock the room.
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Paris, France: Mr Steinberg, talking about religious humour, wasn't one of your first albums a biblical album. I think I bought that as one of the first albums I ever bought and actually it has influenced my theology ever since.
David Steinberg: How scary! That album was called The Incredible Shrinking God. And I don't remember that there was any theology in it, but I'm glad you got some out of it. And thank you!
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Columbia, Md.: I was intrigued that Bob did not like to rehearse, feeling that it would inhibit his spontaneity. As a comedian yourself, how do you overcome this?
David Steinberg: When you say Bob didn't like to rehearse, he still rehearsed. He just wasn't obsessive about it. But he did have his lines posted all over the stage in weird places, so when a previous letter writer wrote in about Bob's eyes, she might be referring to the fact that he was always glancing over to read his lines somewhere. Bob, if you're reading this, forgive me.
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Maryland fan: Hello. Thanks for your great tribute to a comedy legend.
Do you see any similarities between Bob Newhart and Ellen DeGeneres? She also sometimes uses an engaging stammer during monologues and is great at reactions to others. Both have a gentle, low-key, appealing manner. However, I would say that a lot of Ellen's humor incorporates the absurd -- with her making absurd statements, not always reacting to those of others. Your thoughts? Thanks.
Kyra Thompson: yes in fact Ellen herself has mentioned Bob as a comic hero of hers many times. She seems to have appreciated his smart, clean, observational style and I do see that same sensibility in her comedy. She also has a relatability that Bob has which may explain why she too transitioned so well into situation comedy.
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Vienna, Va.: How much of his material did he write? And in the same token -- How does a comedian find the right writers that embody his/her specific style?
David Steinberg: The comedians who don't find the right writers haven't had shows that anyone remembers. It's a tricky process. The MTM studios that produced Bob's shows always had the best writers in town. But Bob himself would have to give them the boundaries and the parameters of his character. Seinfeld had Larry David and Larry Charles. And it was insightful of Jerry to bring in Larry David who had never executive produced a sitcom before, and he had to fight mightily with NBC to keep him there. IT's a tricky process.
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Laurel, Md.: Both of Newhart's sitcom characters were married (from the feel of the show, for quite some time before the series started), but neither had kids.
The shows you've been involved in didn't feature children in any important role.
They obviously impose a time-limit on series life because of aging. But other than that, is there a bias in TV against family characters, possibly because so many TV people are singles or divorced themselves?
David Steinberg: No bias, just it's not funny with kids. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me. It's just my opinion.
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Alexandria, Va.: I think that one of the main reasons that Bob Newhart's work will hold up is that he deliberately avoided topical references in his shows just like Lucille Ball did in her sitcoms. Lucy could have done jokes about Eisenhower and Adlai Stevenson and probably gotten big laughs but in twenty years the shows would have been so badly dated that they would have been unsuitable for reruns. Similarly, although Newhart's first sitcom was right in the midst of Watergate, he avoided any references to Tricky Dick or George Wallace. So I think his shows will endure, while shows like "All in the Family" and even "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" will date much more badly.
David Steinberg: All sitcoms avoid topical references because of syndication as you say. It's not a philosophy, it's economics.
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Washington: Does Bob realize how important his show was? He seems to be a modest person, and until your wonderful film, nobody had discussed his show in its rightful place among Mary Tyler Moore and All in the Family. Does he realize that his show of "little stories" is one of the funniest shows ever produced?
Kyra Thompson: I can't speak for Bob but he is very modest and I don't know that he would ever say he felt his show was important. But he does seem to realize that the show has withstood the test of time. He never wanted to be too topical because then you immediately date the material, so he made a conscious decision to do the "little stories" that were nonetheless so true and so human and consequently so timeless.
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Silver Spring, Md.: I love Bob Newhart -- played my parents' copies of his records when I was a child along with Shelley Berman's stuff too -- not many white-bread gentiles in the 1970's listening to Shelley Berman I might add -- least not many 9 year olds.
Anyway, I have always wondered what your reaction was to this SCTV sketch where Martin Short played you as Captain Hook to John Candy's Divine as Peter Pan. That sketch was pure genius.
I was lucky to grow up in the 1970's and see yourself, Robert Klein and Albert Brooks on TV regularly; your kind of comedy is missed.
Can't wait for the Newhart special too.
David Steinberg: Thank you so much. I actually put Marty Short and John Candy on TV for the first time on a show I had in Canada brilliantly called The David Steinberg Show.
Marty who is a good friend of mine auditioned for me by doing this weird impression. I remember John Candy, Joe Flatherty and Dave Thomas were in hysterics. And although I thought it was funny I couldn't understand what it was he was doing. He was doing an impression of me. So, my aunt Diane who watched that SCTV show called and berated me for not telling her that I was on TV last night. That's how good the impression was.
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Arlington, Va.: A question for David Steinberg -- Do you worry that you'll run out of material or have Comics' Block, like writers sometimes experience?
David Steinberg: I haven't been funny in years. All I do is comment on other people who are funny now.
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Washington, D.C.: David,
Years ago you used to do a sketch where you played a crazy psychiatrist who said that "M.D." stood for "Me Doctor." When I was about 10 or 11 years old (I'm 46 now) I thought that was one of the funniest things I ever heard. Through the years I've shamelessly used that line without attribution. Hope you can forgive me for it.
David Steinberg: I can forgive you -- it was one of my favorites as well.
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Fairfax, Va.: I stumbled across the show last night and relived some great moments of my childhood. The moo-goo-gai-pan scene was hilarious. I think the Bob Newhart show seems to hold up better than Seinfeld.
David Steinberg: I'd say very funny. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
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Anonymous: Ms. Thompson, how did you find all those early sound clips? I read somewhere that even Bob didn't know about some of them.
Mr. Steinberg, where were you in your career when you met Bob Newhart? Would you say he's been an influence on your comic style? After seeing the program last night I realized what an extraordinary creative team the two of you made.
Kyra Thompson: Yes we did find one original acetate recording of Bob's early work that even he didn't know existed. We were interviewing an old childhood friend of his from CHicago (Paul Blume) who revealed that he had this recording of Bob doing some routines with his short lived partner Ed Gallagher. They had recorded the bits with the hopes of getting some radio airplay. Bob was very surprised and delighted to hear about he recording - although he did say with typical modesty that there was no reason for anyone to have saved this material. But from a filmmaker's standpoint it was a goldmine and as a fan it was just so fun to hear the beginnings of Bob's comic sensibility take shape.
David Steinberg: Thank you so much. I was a student at the University of CHicago, and Dan Sorkin who was on the show last night started playing comedy records that no one had ever heard before. And Newhart was one of his favorites. I didn't even know I wanted to be a comedian then, but I owe a big debt of gratitude not just to Bob but to Dan Sorkin, this wonderful DJ and whatever the term would be. For someone as enlightened as he was. And yes, Bob was a definite influence on me. And in working together our lunches were as much fun as anything I can remember.
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Fairfax, Va.: Watching your show last night, I wondered how Bob and Jack Riley (Mr. Carlin) managed to keep a straight face in their scenes together in Bob's office. The outtakes must be a hoot!
Kyra Thompson: Yes nearly everyone we interviewed who had worked with Bob commented on how hard it was to keep a straight face during the tapings. As Jack Riley said in the show, there were a few times he even used a thumbtack pressed into his hand to keep from laughing. Talk about dedication!
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David Steinberg: I've enjoyed this so much, thank you all for writing to me.
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Kyra Thompson: Thanks to everyone for all the great questions and comments. I wish we could answer every single one, but I thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you all for the hour.
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washingtonpost.com: Next week's American Masters, "Goldwyn," airs on Wednesday, July 27, at 9 p.m. ET on PBS (check local listings). A Live Online discussion will follow on Thursday, July 28, at Noon ET.
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Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.