Post Magazine: The Secret

Today, Arnold H. Weiss is a prominent Washington lawyer. In the mid-1940s, as a Nazi hunter in the U.S. Army's Counter Intelligence Corps, he was one of the first people to get his hands on the last will and testament of Adolf Hitler.

Matthew Brzezinski, whose article about Weiss's World War II experiences appeared in yesterday's Washington Post Magazine , was online Monday, July 25 to field questions and comments about the article.

Matthew Brzezinski is a freelance writer in Washington.

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Fairbanks, Alaska: Terrific article on Weiss but wonder if he was aware that when the 45th entered Dachau that the actual guard elements had run away and the camp was under guard by a nearby waffen SS unit that were under orders to surrender it to the Americans. The adjacent train filled with bodies along with the deplorabe condition of camp inmates and other bodies justly infuriated the American troops and in the ensuing moments several waffen SS troops were machine gunned against a wall only to be halted by Lt Col Felix Sparks. Subsequent investigation showed that indeed the waffen SS troops were not the perpetrators of the crimes at Dachau. Charges were later preferred against Sparks, Lt Walsh and the enlisted 45th troops who took part. Gen George Patton upon receiving those charges tore them up and threw them in the waste basket. I suspect that Weiss knew Sparks and wonder if you would ask him to verify the story of the SS at Dachau? Meanwhile what finally happened to Zander?? Thank you, Bill McDonald Colonel USAF Retired

Matthew Brzezinski: Col McDonald; I have heard similar accounts of US troops summarily executing SS guards, but do not know the details of the 45th's experiences. Since Arnie Weiss's wife passed away last week, I have not had occassion to speak with him so I cannot say what he knows of the case you describe. As for Zander, it is my understanding that he served a brief time in captivity and was released in 1946.

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Rockville, Md.: This had to be one of the more surprising stories that I have read in the Washington Post Magazine. It was an interesting enough story to begin with, but the ending blew me away. Do we have any idea how many of these prison camp guards who were taken care of by the DPs?

Matthew Brzezinski: Obviously there is no record of how many SS perished at the hands of DPs. If I was to venture a guess, I would put the total number in the low hundreds.

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McLean, Va.: I thought your article was fascinating and very well written. I had an uncle who was also a German born Jew who was in the OSS part of the Army and was based in Stuttgart after the war. He was on the team that found Rommel. I was wondering whether I could write to Mr. Weiss to ask him if he knew my uncle? As you pointed out in the article, many veterans of this branch are now deceased. My uncle died in the early 70's.

Matthew Brzezinski: you should try Weiss at his office, which is listed in the phone book.

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Alexandria, Va.: How big was the US Army CIC?; Were there a lot of guys like Weiss running around Europe during and after the war?;

Matthew Brzezinski: CIC was probably as large, if not larger than the military intelligence presence we now have in Iraq. So yes, there were many US officer like Weiss stationed in Europe after the war.

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Potomac, Md.: For many years some American Jews refused to buy German cars because of the holocaust. I think there are several reasons for saying that Germany has to some extent redeemed itself: the holocaust is a mandatory school subject and antisemitism and hate crimes are not tolerated. Germany has done better at this than some other European countries. How does Mr. Weiss justify his "big Mercedes," or does he not see any issue here?

Matthew Brzezinski: if you have ever been to Israel, I think you will be surprised by the number of German cars... I know that Weiss spent a good deal of time in Germany during his legal career, and has represented large German clients...I do not beleive he bears a grudge against the German people

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Falls Church, Va.: First, whatever happpened to Zander after Weiss and others were finished interrogating him? Was he tried and imprisoned? How long did he live after the war?

Second, The Wash Post has given a lot of negative publicity to allegations of Bush Administration mistreatment of Arab terrorist prisoners at Guantanomo Bay and at Abu Ghraib. Yet it appears that you do not sufficiently condemn the practice of Weiss and others turning over low-level SS guards to post-WWII Displaced Person camps for supposed interrogation when Weiss knew full well that the DPs would certainly execute them. The DPs were not legally sanctioned Allied interrogators. Obviously the scale of the crimes (Nazi vs. Arab terrorism) differs. How else do you justify this apparent contradiction in judicial perspective--especially in light of the upward ratcheting of the war on terror just this month?

Also, has it ever been proven that the Soviets have part of Hitler's skull (with the bullet hole)?

Thank you for your fascinating article.

Matthew Brzezinski: As I am not a lawyer, I cannot speak to legal justifications. I do, however, beleive that those who did not live through the Holocaust or witness its atrocities will never be fully able to grasp or judge the actions of those that have

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Waldorf, Md.: What should the world community have done to prevent the murder of millions of Jews and other innocent people by the Nazis during WWII? Why do you think the world community continues to stand by idly while people are murdered today, for example in the Darfur region of Sudan, or in Rwanda or by Pol Pot in Southeastern Asia?

Matthew Brzezinski: good questions...unfortunately they are way above my pay grade and should be addressed to world leaders

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Columbia, Md.: I enjoyed this story very much, and I have a great respect for Mr. Weiss and others who lived through, or perished, during the Jewish Holocaust. However, I am disturbed by the cover headline which characterizes this event as the greatest crime. In terms of numbers, there are far, far greater crimes happening even now in parts of Africa where many, many many more millions have been the victim of genocide, forced relocation and government sanctined starvation, brutalization and more. today's Post noted the famine in Niger which received NO attention until increased media coverage--as always, too little, too late. Secretary of State Rice was in the Sudan--again, far too late to help the displaced and brualized millions who have lost everything, including their lives.

Why does the Jewish Holocaust remain of such interest when other events of equal and worst magnitude happen? Is it that the Jewish story seems more 'familiar' to Americans and Europeans, because of location and the skin color oft he perpetrators and victims, and therefore more worthy of attention? I suspect that this is so...and that in itself is our crime.

Matthew Brzezinski: i think the Holocaust continues to resonate partly because it wasthe first real example of a highly developed Western nation harnessing its industrial strength to systematically eradicate a people. And yes, the fact that both the perpetrators and victims were European -- ie "just like us" -- makes it even more frightening.

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McLean, Va.: I'm not sure if I should be proud or disgusted by the article, especially when the gaurds were handed over to the DPs. Could you tell us what reaction you anticipated?

Thanks...it was a great story

Matthew Brzezinski: exactly the reaction that you have had....this is a perfect example of how the world is often colored in shades of gray -- not black and white, as so many of our politicians will have us believe

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Maryland: I wonder how many other secrets are out there that need to be told before all WWII era veterans die. Does the government still classify many WWII records and operations?;

Matthew Brzezinski: yes it does

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Burnaby, BC Canada: In your article you mentioned the beatings that Mr. Weiss recieved by the Hitler Youth before the war.

Did he ever say if had he tracked down and confronted any of these people?; If so, what happened?;

Matthew Brzezinski: no, he never tried to

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Oakland, Calif.: Thanks. That was a great story. My father, a Yiddish-speaking NY-born Jew, was a Army Sargent involved in the military administration in Bavaria after the War. He later went to Heidelberg Medical School on the GI Bill. He is still alive, but has never wanted to tell me about his experiences in the War or reconstruction. His army records were destroyed in a fire in St. Louis. Can you recommend any books that tell the story of military government in post-war Bavaria?

Matthew Brzezinski: i'm afraid not, but I'm sure there are several on such a topic

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Washington, DC: Your article mentions that several thousand low-ranking SS officers were able escape justice because war crimes prosecutors were already backlogged. Do you know whether many of these low ranking members of the SS were caught by subsequent nazi-hunters, or did nazi-hunting efforts continue to focus exclusively on the big fish?

Matthew Brzezinski: the West German government up until the 1970s occassionally arrested and tried former SS men...i read that some 600 were convicted

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Alexandria, Va: Matthew, very good article and wonderful story of Mr Weiss getting back to you to tell his story.

A friend's father who just passed away this last year would not talk about what he did during the war and I think it's sad for the family and the community. Please thank Mr Weiss for telling his story to us thru you; not just the surprising parts.

Sorry the article couldn't have footnotes or something! You mention Weiss's CIC veterans website but no link and Google couldn't find it. You also mentioned Flegel but nothing of her attitude or revelations. Can you give us anything here about these 2 things? And, thanks again to you and Weiss.

Matthew Brzezinski: i believe the CIC association website is run by someone who lives in the DC area.. it should not be difficult to find

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Chevy Chase, Md: First, congratulations on an exceedingly interesting and well-written article. As a "graduate" of the Kindertransport (Aug. 1939) who spent 4+ years in England before coming to the USA in late Nov. 1943, I have a very special interest in information regarding children who escaped from Germany by this means.

Second, I have the following questions:

1. The Kindertransport was basically organized for children to come to Britain. Did Weiss spend any time in Britain; if not, who or which organization enabled him to come to the USA?

2. Was there no official reception, by a refugee organization (e.g., HIAS, Joint Distribution Committee), for him in New York? Who helped him try to find accommodation in NY and who then sent him to Chicago? With no money and no English, it is hard to imagine that a 13-year old would just have gone and then survived as a homeless person. But maybe he did but how was he able to do it?

3. Regarding Standartenfuehrer Wilhelm Zander, was he indeed a "monster?" or one of those misbegotten fancy clerks who ended up working at a high level just following orders? Did he have any record as an operational type in the Death Head squadrons or whatever? Getting to that rank as a relatively young man meant he impressed someone or other or had some connection or other. Could you clarify, please? Also, what happened to him -- was he tried and convicted, sentenced, etc., or is he one of the ones who got away?

4. How did Weiss's mother and 2 sisters get to the USA and when did they leave Germany? Are the sisters still alive?

5. Generally, to be admitted to the USA, a relative, however distant, or some kind person had to execute an affidavit pledging responsibility for support if the refugee were to become a public charge. Did such a person exist for Weiss himself, and/or his mother and sisters, and did that person make any other effort on his behalf.

That's a lot of questioning but your fine article does generate a very high degree of interest. This interest is heightened since, ironically, I am currently reading a book -- in German -- which is a collection of diary entries by people in Germany and elsewhere on the last days of the war, e.g. April 20, 25 and 30 and the day of surrender, May 8, and which quotes snatches from Hitler's political and personal testaments and show clearly that the man had lost all contact with reality. So your article comes at an extraordinary time for me and to the extent you can answer the above questions, I would be very grateful, indeed.

Frank Correl, Age 76

Matthew Brzezinski: you ask if zander was a "monster" or just a fancy clerk....just because he personally did not murder jews, and shuffled paper for Bormann at Nazi Party HQ does not absolve him of responsibility...Himmler and Hitler never killed anyone either

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Alexandria, Va.: I am actually quite stunned at the number of people who seemed shocked by what happened with some of the guards of the Concentration Camps. Didn't they ever read a book? While I certainly don't condone it, I also do not condem them as one can NEVER say how they would act in such a way. It is also vital to note that this was before the historic Nurenberg Trials which were the FIRST time people were prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humainty. Such terms didn't even exist before then. Thus, people were simply recacting in the same manner they have reacted to the end of wars throughout time. My god, if this shocked them, what would the readers think if they ever actually read about the Crusades or the Hundred Year Wars or the Jacobite Rebillion?

Matthew Brzezinski: excellent point... i do not beleive we are in any position to play armchair moralists sixty-years after the fact..those were different times with different mores, laws, and practices...and remeber 50 million people had just died in WWII, so people perspective on death must have also been different

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Alexandria, Va.: Did Mr. Weiss ever encounter the late Michel Thomas, who served as a 45th Division CIC agent concurrently with Mr. Weiss? Thomas is the man who saved the massive Nazi Party personnel files, SS files included, without which our prosecution of war criminals and Denazification programs would have been difficult if not impossible.

Robert Wolfe, who for 34 years was in charge of captured German and War Crimes Records at the National Archives.

Matthew Brzezinski: i do not know, but will ask him

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Leesburg, Va.: I disagree whole-heartedly with Potomac, Md!! I lived in Germany from 1989--1992. I found it a frightening place. The Germans in my neighborhood did not know the details about the holocaust, and thought the Americans were intruders. I was given a nazi salute by an old man, my children and I were spit on and kicked during a Christmas fair in our village. Another old man grabbed my children to look at their eyes, and told me he was thrilled to see blonde hair and blue eyes. While walking one evening, a house had the curtains parted--and hanging on the wall was a portrait of Hitler. How does Potomac MD explain all of the "Get out Turks" spray painted messages? I am glad that I lived there, and my children saw how it was like, but I was happy to return home. Mr. Weiss deserves everything he has.

Matthew Brzezinski: you should remember that we also have some pretty frightening people in this country...every nation has...germany should not be singled out on that score

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Dallas, Tex.: Your story was fascinating and I made copies for my children to read. You are correct that sometimes tragic events like the killing of SS guards cannot be always judged by conventional standards. Indeed we cannot always use black and white for moral judgements: sometimes actions need to seen in light of the circumstances surrounding them. Finally, forgive me, one question: are you the son of Zbignew Brzezinski?

Matthew Brzezinski: he's my uncle

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New York, NY: One thing not mentioned was Arnold Weiss's involvement as charter author and founder of the Inter-American Development bank. (not minor indeed!;) Are his accomplisments 'simply' those of a remarkable individual, or do you suspect that he was trying to make good, perhaps make up for the past and all the death and destruction?;

Matthew Brzezinski: i think he truly is an example of that "Greatest Generation" that lived through war and flourished in peace

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Clearwater, Fla: Has Mr. Weiss returned to Germany since his Army duty ended? How does he feel about Germans and Germany today? Does he (or you) have any plans to write a book about his experiences as a child in Germany, a penniless refugee in this country, and an American soldier tracking down Nazis in 1945? Such a book could have much to contribute to our understanding of that time and place, and I, for one, would look forward eagerly to reading it. Thank you

Matthew Brzezinski: as i mentioned, Mr. Weiss has been to Germany frequently and has no ill-will toward the German people; I think he has chosen to put the past behind him

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Glen Burnie, Md.: Those of us who have known Arnold Weiss - I served in the Interamerican Development Bank when he was General Counsel and on the Board of Directors of the IDB Retirees Assn. when he was also on the Board, can attest to his modesty and common touch. This article will be a revelation to all his friends and a further confirmation that he has had a most interesting life. Ronald Dobrydnio, IDB retiree.

Matthew Brzezinski: he would be pleased to hear that

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Washington, DC: Fabulous article. You should right a screenplay and turn it into a movie. my father was a WWII vet, and every day I realize these stories are being lost. They should be brought to a medium where more can see, read, hear, and learn.

Matthew Brzezinski: it is true that every day we lose some of our collective knowledge of WWII and the Holocaust...unfortunately I don't know if the movies are an ideal medium for preserving history

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Washington, DC: Unfortunately I will not be around during the chat, but I wanted to say that I really enjoyed the article. I am also curious as to your background. About 20 years ago, I was working at a law firm in Cleveland and met a very kind visiting attorney from Warsaw whose name was Andrzej Brzezinsky. I remember him telling me he had a son, Matthew, who was living in Boston with his mother?; Could that be you?;

Matthew Brzezinski: no relation...brzezinski is a common name in Poland, though an unusual tongue-twister here

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New York, NY: Great story. Too bad you didn't publish pictures of the will or the Beretta. Other than than that, like I said great story. And do I smell a screenplay?

Matthew Brzezinski: the will is pictured in the story; the beretta is hopefully safely locked away from grandchildren's reach

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Bethesda, Md.: Thanks for your fascinating article. In it you use the term 'sonderkommando' and imply that it refers to a group of German soldiers who were among the major perpetrators of the Holocaust. But I have always learned that the term refers to Jews who made the agonizing choice to work in the crematoria rather than die themselves.

What's your understanding of the use of the term?

Matthew Brzezinski: the term applies to both..some jewish kapos --especially those that worked the gas chambers and crematorium were also called sonder kommandos, which i belive translates as special task force or group

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Sumerduck, Va.: As an eighth grade teacher, I have taught the Holocaust to students and provide background knowledge and historical data to make this atrocity in history relevant.

I have made every effort to educate my students concerning a regime governed by hatred and ignorance so these events are not forgotten and repeated.

My goal, as with all teachers,is to emphasize the importance of knowledge, not violence, in preventing injustices today and in the future. Is education not our best defense?

After I read this article, I wished I had not. Now I feel this is one more page in the history of World War II.

Very few individuals have the opportunity, outside of a court of law, to face a perpetrator capable of diabolical crimes and have the chance to determine their fate. At what point does the victim become the perpertrator, and do not all perpertrators feel victimized?

Mr. Weiss comments that "Whatever anger I might have had was dissipated by the devastation and destruction I witnessed of German society." It is difficult for me to believe that Mr. Weiss did not feel angry enough to provoke this response when faced with the possibility of these men going free. It is frightening to think that he turned criminals over for punishment without feeling angry.

I am astounded by the fact that Mr. Weiss has no regret and feels vindicated in his actions.

Whatever the circumstances, was it not Gandhi who said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"?

Matthew Brzezinski: i know that others share your sentiment, but it is also important for children to understand that sometimes there are no right answers, no proper course of action. Ghandi's experiences and worldview were formed rising up against British colonial rule, not Hilter's extermination machine. Had he lived through the Holocaust, who knows what he might have felt.

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Alexandria, Va. (Retired General Officer at Dachau): Mr. Brzezinski -

My apologies for this late posting, which is being typed with assistance.

I commanded two companies of infantry which defeated guard units at Dachau.

First, many SS personnel changed their uniform emblems as they determined that Allied forces were advancing. Most guard units captured at the camps were, in fact, regular SS whose flight had been interrupted.

Second, in addition to the major camps, there were several dozen "points of assembly" throughout central Europe where mass murders of civilians and partisans took place until many weeks after the truce signed by Adm. Doenitz.

Mr. Weiss's actions were reasonable in a military sense and, if anything, milder than what the Germans deserved.

E.M. Davidson, Jr.

BG (Ret'd) USA/AUS

Matthew Brzezinski: Thank you for writing...it is important for readers to hear the opinions of those who were present at the events in question

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Matthew Brzezinski: Many thanks for your interest in the article and the ambiguities it raies. It has been a pleasure chatting with you

Best

Matthew Brzezinski

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