Chatological Humor* (Updated 8.10.05)

aka Tuesdays With Moron

* Formerly known as "Funny? You Should Ask ."

Daily Updates: 8.10.05

Gene Weingarten's controversial humor column, Below the Beltway , appears every Sunday in The Washington Post Magazine. He aspires to someday become a National Treasure, but is currently more of a National Gag Novelty Item, like rubber dog poo.

He is online, at any rate, each Tuesday, to take your questions and abuse.

He'll chat about anything.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION BEFORE TAKING THIS WEEK'S POLL:

Before you take today's poll, I need to relate the substance of a conversation I had with Ms. Elizabeth Kelly just yesterday. I asked her if we could absolutely guarantee that all our ordinary poll answers -- indeed, all chat posts -- were entirely anonymous, the identity of the participant unknown and unknowable even to us. She said yes. Then I elaborated: Let's say that someone credibly indicated in a poll answer, or a chat post, this week, that he is an active serial killer, planning his next murder. Indeed, he has already abducted his victim and is considering various diabolical methods of extinction. And the police rushed to us with a subpoena for any and all electronic traces that could lead to this person's capture. Could we help the police in any way? And Ms. Kelly said, sadly, no.

Okay? So feel free to answer honestly. And twice. Please follow the easy instructions:

Step One: For Men Only | For Women Only

Step Two (take the same poll again, but...) : 30 and Under | 31 and Older

(And yes, we expect you to give the same answers each time. Note: In the last question, if your answer is "NEVER" please leave it blank. )

Weingarten is the author of "The Hypochondriac's Guide to Life. And Death" and co-author of "I'm with Stupid," with feminist scholar Gina Barreca. "Below the Beltway" is now syndicated nationally by The Washington Post Writers Group .

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Gene Weingarten: Good afternoon.

I expect today's chat will not be as funny as some, but it ought to be interesting. The results of the poll are nowhere near what I expected, and they are fascinating. I will probably share my personal answers kind of early, because I welcome a robust discussion about what it all means.

Two weeks ago, a chatter asked me how I thought I would do if I were blindly presented the text-only of one day's worth of comics, and then challenged to identify which comic was which. I said this sounded like a worthy undertaking, and suggested that I would do pretty fabulously, indeed.

Well, the guy who sent that in -- Nick Summers, an intern at Newsweek in New York -- contacted me after the chat and offered to follow up on the experiment. And he did. Nick e-mailed me all the dialogue from all the comics this past Saturday, deleting all names and any giveaway facts.

It was a LOT harder than I thought. I got 28 out of 38 correct, for a wan C plus. Not so good for an obnoxiously self-satisfied comics expert, is it?

To qualify to take this test, you of course cannot have read Saturday's comics. For those of you who want to try, HERE is the masterlist of the comics, and HERE is the dialogue, as redacted by Nick. WARNING: Unless you want to miss the rest of this chat, do it later. It took me more than an hour.

I will give the solution in the chat update tomorrow.

This was a great comics week. Many terrific strips, including Nonseq and Pearls on Thursday, Doonesbury on Saturday, Pickles on Sunday, Boondocks on Sunday, Non Sequitur on Sunday, and the CPOW, the most fabulous Pearls Before Swine from Sunday.

I must also call your attention to Curtis from August 5. It's just sort of mind boggling. I'm not sure I have ever seen such a thing on the comics pages.

Okay, let's go. I may have to leave a little early today.

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Alexandria, Va.: The shuttle returns
Our morbid fascination
Summer ratings gold.

Welcome back spacemen
Welcome back to spacewomen
Glad you are alive.

washingtonpost.com: Oh, you must be referring to the fact that Gene STOLE the name of the defunct poetry contest started by Meredith and me to name his column last week: Below the Beltway: News to a Muse , ( Post Magazine, July 31 )

Gene Weingarten: Nobody steals anything in this world. All ideas are old. There is a Force, from which people pluck ideas. Everything is recycled. After all, we are breathing nitrogen atoms that had been breathed by Aristotle.

Plagiarism does not exist; all is "homage." So dummy up, Chatwoman.

As to your poem, I am not a fan of free verse. I consider it lazy. See, I can easily rewrite your poem, with identical sentiment, but a spine:

Our morbid fascination,
Summer ratings sensation!
The shuttle returned,
Contents unburned.
Eileen and crew --
We were pulling for you.

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Alexandria, Va.: Gene, it's me about games at RFK again. There was a pretty good discussion over in Achenbach's blog on what would happen if you and I went to a game together. It was determined that if we ever met, the result would be total annihilation, and there must be some force at work that keeps us from attending the same games. How do you feel about this?

Gene Weingarten: I have invited you twice to contact me. I want to go to a game with you. Weingarten(at)washpost.com.

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Virginia: Hi Gene, love your column!

My husband was in the Navy for four years and has been out for seven years. He considers himself in the middle of the political spectrum, agreeing with Democrats on some issues and Republicans on others. I made the mistake of mentioning your column about flag burning to him and we ended up having a big fight about it. He feels that a flag-burning ban should be in the Constitution, and hates the "Freedom of Speech" argument because he doesn't think it's a freedom of speech issue, that flag burning destroys what he worked so hard to protect and what millions of people have died protecting. There seems to be no reasoning with him. When I tried to explain how I felt -- that I certainly don't agree with flag burning but I just don't think it should be amended to our Constitution -- he said "well I wouldn't expect YOU to understand." (presumably because I have never been in the military) Hmmm... should I start looking for a lawyer? Or is there any other reasoning I can give, if I'm stupid enough to bring it up again?

Gene Weingarten: Okay, let me try this again, at the risk of offending some people.

Your husband did not fight hard to protect a flag. If he did, he is a moron. I wouldn't risk my life protecting a piece of cloth, made in China, and replaceable for $4.99.

No, I am guessing your husband risked his life protecting what the flag represents, which is a country that values free speech above almost anything else. And I honor him for that.

Let me repeat something I said in an update last week: Several Supreme Courts have stated, without a whole lot of opposition within, that the burning of the American flag is clearly, obviously, definitely a form of speech -- it is an expression of an opinion -- obnoxious, certainly, but speech nonetheless. The whole purpose of a country dedicated to free speech means the country is dedicated to allowing controversial, unpopular speech. No one ever raised a free speech issue about the right to speak on behalf of motherhood. The entire first amendment addresses exactly the sorts of speech that might inflame or offend the powers that be.

Look at it this way. Let's say that a guy stands up on a soapbox in Times Square, and starts preaching about how America is an evil place and deserved 9/11. Now, I think we all agree this guy is a jackass. I think we might heckle him. I think we might shun him. But I don't think that even an ardent conservative would argue that there should be a law -- or a constitutional amendment -- specifically prohibiting someone from saying that the U.S. deserved 9/11. Why? Because we would understand, intuitively, that this IS free speech, as noxious as it is, and this country simply does not prohibit people from THINKING something. That would be unthinkable, as it were

The point is, there is no difference between saying that thing about 9/11 and saying, essentially, "America sucks," by burning the flag. No difference at all. Same crappy sentiment, and the fact that one involves a piece of polyester is of no significance.

In fact, I, personally, find someone saying we deserved 9/11 to be a good deal more offensive than burning a piece of cloth, which is an inarticulate and even an ambiguous act. It befouls the memory of thousands of innocent victims, attempting to legitimize a heinous, insupportable act.

But I would fight for his right to say it.

So unless your husband would also seek a constitutional amendment to say really bad things about the United States (such laws exist only in despotic states) I don't think he has a leg to stand on. He's just not getting it.

Gene Weingarten: One more observation: Doesn't a push to outlaw flag-burning sound just a little bit desperate, sullen, and isolationist? This just occurred to me, but it seems to me that this issue rears up every time The United States is not very popular in the world, rightly or wrongly, because of what we are doing.

That's when conservatives start wanting to punish Americans for criticizing America. Circle the wagons, boys, and throw out anyone who looks suspicious.

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Alexandria, Va.: From Yahoo! News: A month after running a negative review of (John) Irving's new novel, The Washington Post has run a negative review of that review. Irving's "Until I Find You," an 824-page novel based partly on the author's relationship with his father, was panned in a July 10 review by Marianne Wiggins as a "mass of lazy, unrefined writing. In an "Editor's Note" published Sunday Aug. 7, 2005, the Post stated: "Had we known that Irving had dedicated one of his earlier novels ("A Son of the Circus") to Marianne Wiggins' ex-husband, Salman Rushdie, and had we known that Irving and Wiggins had socialized with each other in the past, we would not have made the assignment. "We apologize to our readers for this misstep."

Gene, WHAT? Is this unintentional comedy, or simply gibberish? What's going on?

Gene Weingarten: I don't understand your confusion.

The Post should not have assigned the review to someone who was conflicted, as one might assume Ms. Wiggins was. As an editor, I would not assign someone to review a book of a friend of his, or an ex-friend, etc.

This is about reviews, not "blurbs." Blurbs are almost always written by friends, and, as such, should never be trusted.

This case IS kinda juicy, no?

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Sedalia, MO: The answer to every question asking which is the worst kind of person will always include pedophiles. Heterosexual pedophiles, homosexual pedophiles, Jewish pedophiles, whatever. Preying on children makes you very, very bad.

I win! My response was correct.

Gene Weingarten: Actually, severel people have pointed out that the answer you chose was obviously inferior, since one can be a pedophile and never act on your impulse, whereas a serial rapist is perforce a criminal, and a bad one.

However, both answers were stupid, under the circumstances.

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La Baule, France: Hello, Gene!

I don't know where you're going with today's poll, but I think it has a flaw. I answered as female/31+, and many things -no longer- bother me, although they did at the time. You know, a little cheatin' or puffin' here and there, but hey, that was in another country, and besides, the wench is a grandmother.

Cheerio, Judy

Gene Weingarten: It was intended to gauge whether you are currently bothered by having done it, gramma. So your answer should be "no."

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Silver Spring, Md.: Nine times out of ten, independent films are not funny. Not that everything has to be funny, but many of these films are also not uplifting, positive, upbeat or optimistic about anything.

Many are incredibly depressing, actually. Some, damn near suicidal, and gut-wrenching, unpleasant and unnerving to even watch.

And some independent filmmakers wonder why people don't go see their movies.

This is slightly funny, if you watch enough independent movies.

Gene Weingarten: Hm. When I go to see movies, I do not ordinarily seek out movies that are uplifting, positive, upbeat or optimistic. I like a lot of box office busts. And hate a lot of smash hits.

Speaking of which, I recently saw "Independence Day" for the first time. What a total piece of crap.

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Washington, D.C.: Hi Gene. What did you think about Sally Jenkin's 8/4 column on Raffy? Funny? I like her stuff generally, but I thought this was a waste of space. Maybe she's trying too much to be like you or Tony Kornheiser. Thoughts?

Gene Weingarten: I think Sally is one of the best writers at the paper. I love her stuff. I don't think this one worked so great; you can see the strain.

But all this begs the real question: Is Giambi juiced?

Is there any way Giambi is NOT juiced? Look at his numbers. You can practically track the date the needle first went in.

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give me a bre, AK: Have The Post's servers crashed yet with all the Omigods rushing to tell you about the deaf guy named Heard on page B1 Friday? Aptonyms are so lame. Almost as lame as me getting upset about them.

Gene Weingarten: You are the first. That is an antonaptonym.

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poe, MS: Um, Gene, I think that person was writing haiku...

Gene Weingarten: That person was TRYING to write haiku.

I don't like haiku either. I demand rhyme.

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Anonymous: What if I don't cheat and lie, but it really bothers me. Maybe there is a whole life out there I am missing. Then again, maybe not.

Gene Weingarten: Good point. I don't cheat on my taxes or expense accounts, and that really bothers me.

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Wheaton, Md: Hi Gene. I have long assumed that there is a federal law that requires the Post to publish "Classic Peanuts" rather than making room for a new comic. Do you know if this law also stipulates that only later, unfunny Peanuts strips can be printed? Some of the very early stuff was pretty good, but what's in the paper now is awful. Thanks for any info you can provide.

Gene Weingarten: This is a newspaper that respects its readers enormously, probably more than any other paper in the country. But in this one area, we are treating you like simpletons. I have never heard anyone -- anyone -- express gratitude for the rerunning of this crap.

Gene Weingarten: I should elaborate on that last word. I don't mean to suggest that I think Schulz's work was ever "crap," even in those last couple of decades when it seemed tired and formulaic, and after clearly Marrying Irving with the creation of Spike, Snoopy's desert-dwelling brother. But Schulz at his worst was better than many other things on the comics page.

But it is crappy that The Post is treating you like children, under the assumption that you are too brittle emotionally to face a separation from Schulz. These strips we are running are weak, and occasionally comically (no pun intended) anachronistic. What are we thinking?

(I have a theory; my theory is that the decision to retain Peanuts was made by people who don't really read the comics, but who only know that it was a historic strip and people loved it. They were unaware that in the last 20 years or so, Peanuts had been surpassed and even rendered quaint or obsolete by vastly better strips mining the same real estate.

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Happy Family: You should be very proud of the little Weins. It's kind of amazing that one family can be so funny -- and it's not like they were just talking about things you did. They are as funny as you in their own right, with their own life stories. For a dad, can there be anything better than this?

Gene Weingarten: I was going to answer, simply, no. But Molly is sitting here, and I showed her this nice note, and she said: "Yes, there can be. If I also pitched for the Yankees."

As always, Molly is right.

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Not Cambridge, Mass.: After your children covered your chat, a true story:

When I was a law student, I had a first-year required course in criminal law, taught by Alan Dershowitz. Toward the end of the semester, the 100 students in the course filed in for that day's session. After we had been seated, a boy walked to the front of the class. He was about 12. He told us that his father unexpectedly had been called away for a case he was working on, and that the father had offered his son the opportunity to practice his magic show before the conveniently assembled audience of 100 students. Whereupon the boy pulled out his props and began his show.

I'm not sure who had more nerve, Dershowitz for trying to pull this off, or his son for beginning a performance in front of a that kind of crowd.

I didn't stay, but heard that about 40 students did.

Gene Weingarten: This is great. But surely you are not surprised that Alan Dershowitz had chutzpah.

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Denver, Colo.: Gene, the Beethoven PBS was great, except for the fact that he was deaf in real life...

Gene Weingarten: He was deaf only toward the end. When he wrote Fur Elise he still had his hearing.

(FYI: I have no idea whether that last statement is true, but if you say something authoritatively enough, people will believe it.)

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Washington, D.C.: So, what is the most vicious rock song? The biggest putdown in rock history, set to words and music?

Gene Weingarten: Hm. This question sounds familiar. Have we discussed this before?

I'm fighting deja vu, but I like the question.

I think the most obvious answer is "You're So Vain," but I think there are much more vicious songs. Dylan's "Positively Fourth Street" comes to mind.

But I'm going with "Money For Nothing" by Dire Straits. A devastating mockery of Philistines.

Any other nominees out there? Include appropriate lyrics.

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Birmingham, Ala.: Previous chats about bathroom use quirks got me thinking about my own issues, including my inability to take a bath. Since I came to the sudden conclusion at age 10 that baths are disgusting, I've only been able to take showers.

Even with an immaculately clean bathtub, I still wouldn't be able to use it, knowing that other people's, uh, bottoms (well, members of my own household) have rested where I would be resting my own, not to mention that other people feet were where I am now sitting and that a bath is essentially you brewing in your own day's accumulation of sweat and dirt.

I would think that women (I am a woman) would be bothered by these things more than men, and yet advertising and other forms of media typically show women bathing and men showering. I wonder if any of your panty-throwing fans have similar issues with baths.

Gene Weingarten: That bottom thing is odd. Do you hover over toilet bowls, too, even in your own home?

I never take baths. Who can take the time?

I never thought about it as marinating in your own goop, but I guess it is.

Ladies?

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Rock lyrics with grammatical errors: The most egregious ever has to be Paul McCartney's "Live And Let Die":

"...But in this ever changing world in which we live in..."

Gene Weingarten: You know, McCartney has claimed that he was singing "... in which we're living" but he's a liar. I listened repeatedly, with headphones, at deafening volume, and there is no question.

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Gene Weingarten: To the woman who suggested something about the Federal Register, thank you. Definitely worth a try. I'm not being more specific here, because I don't want someone else doing it first.

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European eating style: I was the poster who first mentioned that I switched to "European" style of eating and seem to have touched off an identity crisis for another poster...?

A key point, though, that Gene didn't mention is that you have to have the tines of the fork turned down. If you just grip the fork in your left fist, perpendicular to the plate (as I've seen people do) or shovel away with your left hand, it's not the "European style." I think the tines down appeals to me as much as the lack of switching between hands.

A brief description here: http://www.drdaveanddee.com/american.html

Also, Gene just curious -- why do you find this difficult to master? What trips you up?

Gene Weingarten: Thank you. This is an excellent point.

What trips me up is 40 years of habit. And the fact that I am pretty non-ambidextrous, so eating, say, peas with my left hand, when my right hand is free, makes no sense to my brain.

Gene Weingarten: (I would like to point out that this description supports my contention that European lefties are likely to switch hands.)

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Prejudice...: I'm a black woman and I do hold preconceived notions about people of my race as well as people of other races. I try not to succumb to those thoughts and I make an effort to know all kinds of people, but my circle of friends skews black and white college educated professionals (there are some Republicans and gays in this group), as opposed to Latino, Asian, East Indian etc. I am always thinking about my actions and how not to fit the stereotype. For example, I leave a 20 percent tip every time, no matter what service I receive and I always smile and say hello and good morning and have a good day etc. to the people at my neighborhood chinese restaurant, and the Latinos who work in maintenance in my building and the East Indians who work in the parking garage -- and it is noticed, as they are all very helpful and kind to me. I have dated some white guys casually, but haven't gone deeper because I can't get past the idea that they might just be interested in the "black" me and not ME me. Enough for today.

Gene Weingarten: Noted. So you have mild prejudice and it doesn't particularly bother you?

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Chattanooga, Tenn.: Gene,

What are your thoughts on Hank Steuver's now-not-entirely- internal critique of The Post?

I thought it was quite amusing, as someone who reads a paper version of a newspaper every day, and someone who reads the paper version of The Post whenever I have the opportunity.

Gene Weingarten: It was brilliant. Totally nailed it. I have said the same, but not as eloquently.

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Loves Rhy, ME?: So does that mean you like hip-hop music?

Gene Weingarten: I like some of it, yes. I love clever wordplay, and a lot of hiphop has very clever wordplay.

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Absta, IN: Why doesn't the last poll question have the option for "I have never used illegal substances?"

I read the obituary for rock journalist Al Aronowitz, who introduced the Beatles and Dylan to marijuana. Never having tried pot, and I don't understand why the stuff is credited with changing their music. Does that mean that if I try some, I will be able to write Chatological Humor questions that will be timeless classics?

Gene Weingarten: Wasn't that obit incredible: Liz can we link to David Segal's appreciation in Style?

To summarize: Bob Dylan is the person who turned the Beatles on to pot in their one and (apparently) only meeting. Dylan went on to inject Beatle-style rock into folk music, inventing folk rock. And the Beatles began writing significant songs with intelligent lyrics, creating the canon we all love. Who knew? (Well, at least I didn't.

The final poll question accidentally omitted the "never" answer. If the answer is "never," leave it blank. (As we instructed on the intro page.)

No, if you start smoking pot, you won't start writing ingenious questions to this chat. But you, personally, might finally get laid.

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A Republican, for now: Gene: "That's when conservatives start wanting to punish Americans for criticizing America. Circle the wagons, boys, and throw out anyone who looks suspicious."

Let's get something straight. REAL conservatives don't support an anti-flag burning Constitutional ammendement. REAL conservatives don't like the idea of the government opening up that can of worms, for the exact reasons you cite. REAL conservatives may hate the idea of flag burning, and would shun anyone who did such a thing, but they wouldn't outlaw it as offensive. What we have in the White House and Congress are not real conservatives. They are some sort of ultra-religious, blindly patriotic, liberals who believe that Big Government is the answer to everything. We shall see what happens to the Republican party in 2006 and 2008. My guess is that you'll start to see a real schism as people like me, dissatisfied with the religious right, leave the party. The question is only if the Democrats are saavy enough to run a candidate that appeals to a REAL conservative.

Libertarian keeps looking better and better.

Gene Weingarten: BOY do I like this post. Thank you.

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Silver Spring, Md.: "all this begs the real question"

OK, who are you, and what did you do with Our Gene???

Gene Weingarten: I used it correctly. I am saying that talking about her column is avoiding the only important question.

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Calgary, AB: If Molly is around, could you ask her why cat bites are so bad? Because I got bit about a month ago, and it seems totally fine, except for a few little scars where the teeth went in. No redness, nothing. But, just now, after I read the transcript, my hand started to hurt again. The human mind is a weird and powerful organ.

I was bitten in a bar in Barcelona, by the bar cat. That's right, the cat had a little cushion nest right up on the bar, where it was resting. Weird, eh?

By the by the way, I have two cats who were originally farm cats, and usually cats like me. I was petting it fairly nicely (I think, although I admit I was in the bar for a reason) when it just up and bit me, then went back to sleep. It didn't even make a noise. Fortunately my friend knew to put pressure on it to stop the bleeding. Then she grabbed a bandaid from her purse (Girls have EVERYTHING in there!;) and put it on, and off we went to the next bar.

So, should I be worried at all?

Gene Weingarten: Molly said that she was told that cat teeth are so small, and long, that bacteria are deposited, and skin seals, and you get an abscess and aerobic germination of the bugs. This is vet-office word of mouth, and nothing definitive.

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washingtonpost.com: The Rock Journalist At a High Point In Music History , ( Post, Aug. 3 )

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Rock Egregiousness: "The worst has to be the Doors, "stars fall from the sky/for you and I!" simply because that last line is sung so forcefully."

I always sing "you and me!" at the top of my lungs when that song comes on the car radio.

washingtonpost.com: Jim Morrison and his pretty mouth can sing any damn words he wants.

Gene Weingarten: Now, calm down, Lizzie. We can't have that sort of thing. May I remind you, you are pantsless.

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Pompous, AS: Gene, I hope that you, as the final arbitor of humor and as one with an elegant streak of rudeness, can settle an argument. My friend and I are recent graduates of Columbia University, which has the reputation of an elite school. (It isn't actually an elite school; as I said, my friend and I are among its graduates.) Now that we have both entered the workplace, we are often asked what school we attended. As proper alumnae, we hope to uphold our alma mater's aura of elitism. She has chosen to assume a haughty, bold tone when answering and to stick her nose in the air. I have adopted a subtler approach. I say the name as if it were a one-word question and then demurely ask, "Have you hear of it?" She insists her way is rud because her victim immediately recognizes the pomposity. I contend mine is because I imply (though do not infer) that my poor dolt of a questioner does not possess basic social knowledge.

Gene, dahling, which of is funnier? Obviously I am equating rudeness with humor, which begs the question.

If it matters: my friend still resides in New York while I have returned to Washington. I think it might.

Gene Weingarten: I believe I am correct when I say that, among Ivy League snots, Columbia ranks either fifth or sixth among the eight in prestige -- considered clearly superior only to Dartmouth and Brown. Therefore, whatever snotty response you give is, in the end, a joke upon yourself. There is no rudeness, per se, since you are the one looking like a dork, and inviting others to laugh at you. Like we are, right now.

Gene Weingarten: Yes, indeed, I have done further research and can state with certitude that, on the Ivy League Snot scale of prestige, the schools rank as follows: 1. Harvard 2. Yale 3. Princeton (big drop) 4. UPenn 5. Cornell or Columbia 6. Cornell or Columbia (big drop) 7. Dartmouth (big drop) 8. Brown.

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Gene Weingarten: Poll results:

Well, I was surprised by the results of the poll, especially for the first question. Even given the promise of privacy, I expected less candor. Thank you.

I have said in the past that I believe it impossible for someone of any ethnicity to live in this country and feel no tinge of racial or ethnic bias. I still feel that, and I feel that anyone who claims this is probably deluding him or herself. My answer to question one is that I feel a small amount. The harder part was whether it bothered me.

I define as "bias" in myself the fact that I feel particularly aware that I am talking to a person of color when I am talking to a person of color. I don't feel that way in dealing with a woman, or an Irish-American, or whatever. This isn't a negative feeling so much as a feeling of "difference," and I'd be kidding myself if I didn't define this as a form of prejudice. It's subtle, but it is there. Ultimately, I decided it really doesn't bother me much, because I am aware of it and try as hard as I can - I think successfully - to ignore it, or overcome it.

With my whole sordid life as a scorecard, going back to irresponsible youth, yes, I have cheated on a spouse or girlfriend, and it actually does bother me.

Similarly qualified, I was at one point a serious and promiscuous substance abuser. And no, right now, looking back, I don't feel bad about it. I don't get upset by any victimless crimes, my own included. I do feel lucky to have survived, though.

Cheating on taxes and expense accounts: No, never. It's not because I am such an honest guy, though I think I am a reasonably honest guy. It's because petty thievery would make me feel grungy - the pettier the grungier -- and because of certain practical impediments. Advice to would-be expense-account fudgers. The best way to make sure that an employer can fire you unfairly, just because they don't like you, or want your job for the boss's nephew, or whatever, is to give them the rope to hang you with. Um, in my case, it is also because I love and respect The Washington Post and not only do not fudge expense accounts but SHORTCHANGE myself because I love my bosses so much.

As far as the IRS, I live with a woman who has federal top secret security clearance, is a federal prosecutor, and doesn't let me do anything even slightly, you know, AGGRESSIVE in accounting. (I love that term. It is an accountant's term for legal thievery.)

The woman-man-age breakdowns on the first question are interesting. Anyone have any thoughts on these poll results?

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Stephan, Santa Rosa: Beethoven: From what I read, he still had some of his hearing at the time he wrote Fur Elise.

Biggest putdown: Dylan's "Idiot Wind".

Gene Weingarten: Hey, Stephan.

Yes, yes. Idiot wind. Vicious lyrics. But is it more of a putdown than "Money For Nothing"? Its more angry, but less devastating.

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Rock put-down: Dirty Laundry, Don Henley.

Twenty years ahead of its time in describing the ambulance-chasing scandal-mongering 24/7 pseudo-crisis media.

Can we film the operation? Is the head dead yet?

You know the boys in the newsroom got a running bet

Get the widow on the set, we need dirty laundry

Gene Weingarten: I fail to find anything amusing in that disreputable song.

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Put-down lyri, KS: "Hound Dog" (Various): "You ain't never caught a rabbit." I mean, how do you parry that one?

"Knife and Fork" (Rockpile): "Wearing a size 44/You have to turn sideways to get through the door/Girl, you let a knife and a fork/Dig your grave." In the wrong hands, this can lead to suicide.

"Love Gone Mad" (Elvis Costello): "With

these vulgar fractions of the treble clef/I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" You know it's an insult, but you aren't sure just what it means.

Gene Weingarten: Both good lyrics.

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Vicioustu, NE: For most vicious rock song, does anyone have more vicious songs in his catalog than the brilliant Richard Thompson? "She Twists the Knife Again," "A Poisoned Heart and a Twisted Memory," "Long Dead Love," "Backlash Love Affair," "Why Must I Plead" -- and that's just for starters. Thompson has made a whole career out of being scathing. There may be better, more vicious individual songs out there, but few have as many scorched earth tunes.

Gene Weingarten: I don't know him.

"Fat people" is also great. This is fun.

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Baltimore, Md.: So how funny was your weekend? Can't be as funny as mine...

I send the wife and four-month-old son out of the house for the day so I can potty train my daughter (with the boot camp method). Early in the training she does the deuce and since she's not familiar with the post-poop routine, she starts running around the house before I've had a chance to wipe her. She's laughing the whole time as am I (while also silently praying that she doesn't sit down on something). Then she turns the corner and I see the dog walking behind her trying to lick her bottom. Which makes her (and me) laugh even harder. I had to decide whether to grab her or get the camcorder... I grabbed her, dammit.

And the best putdown in music isn't a rock song but a Tupac Shakur song. I forget what it's called but in it he talks about, in detail, how he slept with a rival's wife, and a bunch of other things. Not the high quality of "You're So Vain" but it certainly got the point across.

Gene Weingarten: Could be a movie scene!

You had a better weekend than I did.

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Alexandria, Va.: You've written so lovingly about your dog, you must have enjoyed today's "Rhymes with Orange." And is it coincidence that the "Pickles" that's directly beneath it is as opposite as you can get?

washingtonpost.com: Rhymes with Orange , ( Aug. 9 ) | Pickles , ( Aug. 9 )

Gene Weingarten: The juxto is fabulous. I have to say that I find the RWO just a teensy bit manipulative and saccharine, yet it happened to bring a tear to my eye today.

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Beethoven: It's pretty likely he could still at that point. Fur Elise was written in 1808, Ninth Symphony in 1824.

Gene Weingarten: Right. So Stephan said.

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Poll Ti, ME: So as far as your readers go a higher percentage of women have cheated than men. So much for the men are dog's bull**** that get's shoved down our aural cavities from the day we are born...

Gene Weingarten: Actually, it seems to speak to the falsehood of the interpretations we usually get to why more men than women admit to cheating, which should be statistically unlikely: The explanation is always that there are a few REALLY loose women who do it with lots of different men.

Silly. We cheat the same, I am guessing.

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Baltimore, Md.: Re flag burning. I have just completed 20 years of U.S. Air Force Medical Corps duty, 10 active and 10 reserve, and will soon retire as a lieutenant colonel. I say to "patriotic" conservatives: keep your filthy hands off the Constitution!

I think Ambrose Bierce understood patriotism best, as shown in the Devil's Dictionary: "In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first."

Perhaps it would be preferably to outlaw the murder of prisoners by military and CIA personnel.

Please sign me "Air Force, MD"

Gene Weingarten: No comment needed. Thanks.

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Baby Names: Hi Gene, I agree with you that baby names are getting out of control. A few weeks ago you suggested some great, old-fashioned girl names such as Eliza. We're expecting, and we're considering names along those lines, too. Finding cool girl names is relatively easy -- Ida, Adele, Virginia, etc.

Boy's names are much tougher. The old-fashioned route doesn't work as well since they just sound old -- Vern, Cyril, Horace... There's much less middle ground between the boring Bills, Toms, and Dans and the over-the-top. We've already tried the family name thing, and my family being Polish yields some unfortunate choices (Stanley, Casimir). Any ideas?

Gene Weingarten: Anything but "Earl."

I'm not really with you on certain names being "boring." That attitude puts you dangerously close to the vile category of people who name their kids as a way of showing off how creative they (the parents) are.

Having said that, I will concede that the number of funky, old-fashioned yet cool boys' names is disappointing. You may have to take a plunge. My grandpa, for example, was named "Isaac," a name that sounded unbelievably Old Worldish and walrusy to me, as I was growing up. Then Isaac Hayes happened, and it became cool.

Will the same think happen to Ebenezer? You have to ask yourself. Do you feel lucky? Do you, punk?

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Pittsburgh, Pa.: From Friday's chat with Desson Thomson:

Southern Maryland: Slate magazine recently carried two reviews of "The Aristocrats" where the writers didn't seem to understand the point of the movie. Your colleague Gene Weingarten has been discussing the movie's concept at length in his chats. (It's based on an insider joke among professional comedians.) Although "The Aristocrats" isn't yet in wide release, if you are tapped to review it, I would suggest that you get some background information from Gene.

Desson Thomson: Gene Weingarten is a constant source of information to me. He is a funny man. And an office pal. But he really needs to get rid of that mustache.

Thought I would share.

Gene Weingarten: Here is a fact that may never before have been revealed: Desson looks EXACTLY like Mariano Rivera, the Yankees' closer.

I have pointed this out in the office, and sports fans' jaws drop.

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Old Yeller: Gene -- while not a fecal matter, this is close enough to solicit you for an opinion.

Spouse A feels that peeing in the shower is both convenient and, hey, it saves water.

Spouse B feels that it is just gross. Really gross.

Your thoughts?

Gene Weingarten: I'm with spouse A, who I am guessing is a woman.

Peeing in the sink is a whole different matter. And it reminds me that that might be the funniest Lenny Bruce routine ever.

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Astoria, Ore.: Stuever's memo is fantastic, and for the love of God, shorter stories are not the answer. We already have a USA Today, we already have TV news, we already have a nation awash in short and boring newspaper articles. The extra length is where the interesting bits get in, and it's one of the major reasons I read the Post (that, the sense of humor, and the talent of the writers). I'd subscribe to the paper version, if it didn't arrive days too late out here. Newspapers aren't for everyone, and some people aren't ever going to sit down and read the paper, no matter what. So the hell with 'em: accept that the readership will be smaller than it once was, and make the best newspaper possible for those of us who want all the details on the stories that we care about. (I'm in my mid-20s, so this is not the cranky rant of a septuagenarian -- it's the cranky rant of a relatively young woman.)

Gene Weingarten: A minority of us have been making exactly this point for a long time.

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Alexandria, Va.: I found out the other day why nearly every drug has a HCl group attached to it. Apparently HCl has a tendency to make chemicals insoluble in water. So in an aqueous solution, the drug will float to the top. They can skim it off and not have to worry about other compounds getting into the good stuff.

I like my EE teachers.

Gene Weingarten: Thank you.

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Scary Rock: How about the Beatles' "Run for your life (if you can little girl ...)", and The Police's "Every breath you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you..."

Gene Weingarten: Those are not putdowns, those a threats. The best threat song I've ever heard is a relatively new one. I forget the group. "My Roommate's Gun Has Nine Bullets..."

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Rednec, KS: Most vicious? How about Randy Newman's "Rednecks": "We're rednecks, rednecks/We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground."

Gene Weingarten: Nice.

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New York, N.Y.: I've read the poll results 20 different ways, and the only thing I can deduce with clarity is that you post-30-year-olds are a bunch of immoral sluts who'll cheat on someone without a moment's hesitation and feel no remorse. Shame, shame on you.

(Seriously, though, that's what shocked me most... we, as a nation, are raising a generation of faithful partners who either won't cheat or will feel really, really bad about it. So are we choosing better now than we did in the past? Were you stuck with partners you didn't like, whereas now we're much more selective? Either way, I like feeling morally superior to my parents. As long as they, y'know, haven't cheated on each other.)

Gene Weingarten: This may be simply a function of living longer, and having more opportunities. But I like your analysis better.

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Agre, ED: "washingtonpost.com: Jim Morrison and his pretty mouth can sing any damn words he wants."

Thank you.

washingtonpost.com: Welcome.

Gene Weingarten: Yeesh.

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Cat bite in Calgary, Alberta, Canada: Molly is totally right. As a person who has worked in the veterinary field for many years and sustained a few cat bites, I can tell you with authority that if it has been a month and the wound is healed, you are safe from bacterial infection. Your hand would have blown up like a balloon in only a few hours. Think of those gloves that Mickey Mouse wears and you'll get the idea. However, do you know the status of the cat's rabies vaccinations? If I were bitten by a bar cat that's what I would be worried about, especially in a foreign country. I would look into it or go get the rabies boosters.

Gene Weingarten: Noted. Thanks.

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Albany, N.Y.: I forgot how old I was and answered the wrong poll. I mean I was off by like 15 years! What is wrong with me?

Gene Weingarten: Hahaha.

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Showers vs. baths, Washington, D.C.: I am a woman and I, too, can't take baths. The idea of sitting in water, trying to avoid the dirt and scum floating around, just creeps me out. However, I don't get the 'bottoms' thing either. I'm also Black and have small prejudices that don't bother me at all.

Gene Weingarten: Lots of women writing in with similar sentiments.

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Poll Questions: I must admit I would freely talk about my taxes here, since I assume IRS tax auditors have no sense of humor, and would never even be on this chat. Of course, I shouldn't generalize, since I am one of your token conservatives.

Gene Weingarten: Splendid. Please submit your name and social security number and whatever tax-fraud confessions you may have. We'll pair that with your assertion that IRS auditors are humorless geeks, and see what happens!

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Washington, D.C.: Hey Gene,

Just out of curiosity, have you ever read any of John Stewart Mill's philosophy? I'm particularly curious about your thoughts on Utilitarianism, if you've read it, as many of the things I've seen you say here seem reflective of that work; your apparent disdain for paternalism, strong defense of freedom of speech, etc.

Gene Weingarten: I read JS Mill for the first time several months ago, when I was writing a story on non-voters, and Mill was probably the person in history who gave the most thought to the minutiae of the democratic process. So I searched "On Liberty" and "Principles of Political Economy" and discovered that though Mill agonized over every aspect of representative democracy, the one thing that never occurred to him was that people who had the vote might not exercise it. It seemed impossible to him!

Yeah, he was a smart guy. His thoughs on the liberation of women were, oh, about 100 years ahead of their time.

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Soggy Foggy Bottom, Washington, D.C.: From 7/29: "What, exactly, attracted you to the Lao Tzu quote? Were you impressed by his erudiction? Please explain how, intuitively or otherwise, failure is lurking in success? I mean, it might be explicable in some sense, but as a great universal observation? Nah."

I don't recall if I voted for the Laozi selection, but I can explain how failure lurks in success. Per the Daoist viewpoint, qualitative extremes contain their opposites. Basically, in order to have a concept of "few," you also need to have a concept of "many" to compare it to. Same thing with "big/small" and others. Failure/success is a little less obvious, but I believe he's applying the same Daoist logic here.

If this gets published, I'll feel as if my expensive liberal arts degree (music and Chinese major) was all worthwhile.

Gene Weingarten: Well, here is your $150,000 fame.

However: The Lao Tzu chiasmus of several weeks ago: "Failure is the foundation of success; success is the lurking place of failure," does not seem to address your point. Whether one must have an UNDERSTANDING of failure when one attains success is irrelevant. Lao is arguing, somehow, that success contains the seeds of failure, and while that might be true in some cases (overconfidence, etc.) I think that, as a general and universal principle, it fails. Successful people tend to remain successful, because they have certain naptural aptitudes, skills and instincts that contribute to their success. (The other side of the Laotzunian quote, to me, makes more sense. It is perhaps a reasonable universal rule that, within failure, are inevitably important lessons in how to avoid that state again.)

So, maybe you flushed that $150,000 right down the pooper.

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Re: men vs women cheating: One reason why more women would admit to "inappropriate intimacy" is in how women define cheating. More women then men are likely to feel like they've cheated if they engage in emotional intimacy with someone else. Men are more likely to define cheating just as physical intimacy.

Gene Weingarten: Very, very good point.

During speaking engagements with Gina, I often ask the audience to raise their hands if I am describing an act that they consider "cheating," and put the hand down when it is no longer "cheating."

I start with multiple sex acts with a guy and his secretary in a hotel room, and all hands go up, and then I gradually lessen the offense.

At the point after I have said "a single, passionate kiss" there are always many more hands with nailpolish up there than others.

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Nine Bulle, TS: That would be Drive-By Truckers. One of the better bands out there today, IMO.

Gene Weingarten: Right. Thanks. A really disturbing, funny, and good song.

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Bone to pick with the Empress: Wasn't it a requirement that the DC songs should SCAN? Sheesh. Anyone can throw together words that sorta but not quite fit the tune.

Gene Weingarten: All the songs scanned perfectly. I have never known the Empress to make that mistake. Do you want to elaborate?

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Payo, LA: Gene,

I've seen articles today and recently in The Washington Post about "payola" and I'm wondering: is this a slang term that in recent years has gained legitimacy? Why don't the headlines read "FCC to Investigate Bribery Charges?" "Payola" reminds me of the phrase "fat cats" but nobody uses the term with any formality. Why payola?

Gene Weingarten: Sigh. Sigh. Sigh.

Every once in a while, a post arrives that reminds me just how old I am, and how young, healthy and attractive everyone else is.

Payola is an ancient term, coined in the late 1950s. There was an enormous "payola" scandal among rock deejays. As I recall, the great Alan Freed was implicated.

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Newport News, Va.: Elvis Costello's early career (and mid and late career) createst the greatest collection of vicious put down lyrics ever. In particular the album "My Aim is True", and the song "I'm Not Angry" stand out as scathing. Hint: he's lying in the title of the song.

Gene Weingarten: Reminds me.... Christine Lavin has a few icy putdowns that make me laugh. "If You Want Space, Go to Utah," a song written to a guy who told her he "needed some space."

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Washington, D.C.: On a topic related to this week's poll disclaimer, if I've already abducted my victim and I'm considering various methods of extinction, what's the funniest one I could choose? roo roo?

Gene Weingarten: Yes. NOTHING is funnier than death by roo roo.

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Cheating: Oh, definately women have a broader sense of cheating. I had to decide if holding hands with another guy (this is when I was 22, not 12) counted as cheating. I decided it didn't, because after holding hands for 15 seconds, I dropped his hand.

A guy wouldn't have even remembered this event.

Gene Weingarten: Exactly right.

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Shower pee: ...I'm surprised that you think Spouse A is a woman, unless that was an unfortunate typo. Personally, I think peeing in the shower is unbelievably gross and icky (technical term), and I would tend to think that more women than men would be bothered by it. (Wasn't there a whole Seinfeld episode about George peeing in a shower at a gym? He didn't see the big deal, as I remember. Convenience factor.)

washingtonpost.com: What about peeing in a bath? Anyone here for peeing in a bath?

Gene Weingarten: Hahahahaha. See this is why I heart Chatwoman a lot.

I DO think it was a woman. Can spouse B identify his or her gender, please.

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Best Rock Put Down:

Currently I am loving the Kaiser Chiefs song Every Day I Love You Less and Less...

It's clear to see that you've become obsessed

I can't believe once you and I did sex

You're turning into something I detest.

Somehting about the jumping, happy, pop-y way they sing it just really makes me giggle.

Hee hee.

Gene Weingarten: Nice, especially the title.

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HA HA Payola: Gene, you are old. I learned about payola in my history of rock and roll course in college. It was in the first two weeks of classes, then we moved on to ancient music history. Hee!;

Gene Weingarten: Sob.

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Wandering in the video store: But can Desson throw that devastating cut fastball?

Gene Weingarten: The only thing ol' Desson throws is bull.

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Holding Hands...: Did you tell your significant other about the 15 second hand hold? If not why not? Might have been cheating.... poop

Gene Weingarten: I disagree. If YOU know something meant nothing, and you further know it would bother your spouse, isn't it cruelty to tell him/her?

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Bordentown, N.J.: Molly and Dan seem like witty, funny, fun people, so I hope they were just putting us all on when they said they would have let a blind woman step in horse shi* for their edification.

A blind person joke that works is when irrascible Mr. Muckle keeps putting his cane through W. C. Fields' plate glass door in "It's a Gift," with the offhand comment, "You got that door closed again!"

The essence of good physical humor is when the mighty and arrogant are brought low by the banana peel, not when the cripple's cane is kicked away. Surely you trained your children's senses of humor better than that, Gene!

Gene Weingarten: Glad you mentioned this.

Yes, after the chat, I told my kids that I understood their impulse, but disagreed with them. The humor in that situation was in the situation itself: The realization that the poor woman was on an intercept path with the poo. That is the Mel Brooks moment. Had she actually walked into it, there would be no joke, only cruelty and guilt. Yes, of course, I would have stopped her.

In retrospect, they agreed.

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Denver, Colo.: Gene, am I a geek? I am the one who wrote in about Beethoven being deaf (I'm also the same chick who won't correct her beau who says supposably). I was just sitting on the toilet thinking how cool it was that Stephan Pastis wrote in to counter my point about Ludwig van B.

Gene Weingarten: This chat empowers you. You are not just a cowardly chick sitting on a toilet somewhere; you are an interlocutor with a world-famous cartoonist.

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Columbia, Md.: You didn't like Independence Day? How could you not? It was so realistic. Especially how the alien mothership's computers were Mac-compatabile.

Gene Weingarten: Yeah, and how the president of the United States gets into a fighter jet to do battle with the aliens.

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Washington, D.C.: Re: old slang. I don't know if Raymond Chandler used what was lying around at the time or coined his own phrases, but I find more cool old slang in his books than anywhere else. Just last night, I was re-reading "The High Window," and Philip Marlowe snarls to a would-be intimidator that "that would bother me like two percent of nothing at all."

I also noted that Marlowe used the word "heeled" to describe someone armed with a gun. I knew this term was common in the American West towards the turn of the 20th century, but I did not know that it managed to stagger its way into the 1940s. I wonder if anyone uses it now.

Gene Weingarten: Don't know "heeled."

Abe Lincoln, in court as a lawyer, once described his opponent's case as being "as weak as a soup made from the shadow of a chicken that had starved to death."

Lincoln was a great writer.

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Lao-tzu Chiasmus: Well, success may lead to hubris, which inevitably leads to failure...

Gene Weingarten: Yes, but the key is MAY. Most really successful people remain that way because they recognize the danger of hubris, or counteract it.

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Revelations: I'm a woman. I love baths. I pee in the shower. I sit on public toilet seats, and I flush with my hand. I never knew I was such a skeev until I started reading this chat. Maybe I need to go swim in a vat of clorox.

Gene Weingarten: Hahahahaha.

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Alexandria, Va.: Re: Meanest song....

Idiot Wind, by Bob Dylan

....Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your mouth,

Blowing down the backroads headin' south.

Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth,

You're an idiot, babe.

It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe....

Gene Weingarten: Right. No question, this is up there.

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Gene Weingarten: The thing I love about "Money for Nothing" is that Knopfler takes the voice of the person he is mocking.

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Stephan, Santa Rosa: If I had a nickel for every chick who sat on the toilet and thought about me...

Gene Weingarten: Hahahahaha. See, you're making her feel even better now.

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Virginia: Gene, have you ever heard of "Snipesbombing" before?

I read about it on a blog last week that called it "an Internet prank conceived in late 2002 by Web-savvy German youth who identify vulnerable blogs to 'bomb.' So-called 'bomber blogs' are then visited by a writer who adds a comment or comments to the blog meant to deceive the owner into thinking they were visited by famous American actor Wesley Snipes."

Preposterous if true. Has your chat ever been Snipesbombed?

Gene Weingarten: IS THAT YOU, WESLEY?

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Gene Weingarten: Okay. It's time for me to go. I fear I have been off my game a little today.

This morning at 3 a.m., one of our smoke detectors began to bleep in that annoying, Chinese water-torture way, signaling it needed a new battery. It was mildly annoying, but to Harry Truman, it appeared to be signaling the Apocalypse. He began pacing, breathing hard, whimpering, and actually tried climbing our stairwell to get to the bedrooms to hide under our bed (his rheumy legs have not permitted that climb in two years.) So, at three a.m I mounted a ladder, disconnected the bleeping thing, took out the spent battery. And it would not stop bleeping. We had no replacement battery. We could not keep it anywhere in the house, because Harry would have simply gone out of his mind. So my wife went outside and locked it in our car. Then she spent two hours talking Harry down into a semi-sane condition. She slept by his side.

It turned out to be Harry's final endearing eccentricity. When he awoke, he could no longer use his hind legs, and at 9 this morning, he galumphed off - legs just fine, like a pup --to that enormous water bowl in the sky, filled with drowning baby rats and other entertaining doggie treats.

Yes, I know. And I appreciate it. Thank you all.

I will add the answers to the comics challenge tomorrow, but will not be updating this week; taking Molly to Ithaca. Harry timed his departure perfectly. Molly was able to say goodbye, and, yes, there something comfortingly cyclical in that she's heading off to vet school.

Next week, same time.

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Harry: This is the only time I've cried during a chat. I'm sorry.

Gene Weingarten: Me, too.

Thanks.

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UPDATED 8.10.05

washingtonpost.com: Correct answers to the Blind Comics Challenge

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Editor's Note: Washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.