The Iraq Insurgency's Online Strategy

Washington Post staff writer Susan B. Glasser was online Tuesday, Aug. 9, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss The Post's special report on how jihadists are using the Internet to spread their message.

Read The Post's three-part series on al Qaeda and the Internet . Today's article, by Glasser and Steve Coll, is here -- " The Web as Weapon: Zarqawi Intertwines Acts on Ground in Iraq With Propaganda Campaign on the Internet."

The transcript follows.

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New York, N.Y.: Why don't we hijack terrorist Web sites?

We know where they are. Why not use their freedom against them, for a change?

For example, why don't we hack their sites to spread disinformation?

Susan B. Glasser: First of all, thanks for having me... and I encourage everyone to look at the wonderful multimedia presentation our colleagues at washingtonpost.com have put together to complement the series....

As for the question, this seems to be the Number One response to the series -- What is the US government doing about it? The answer seems to be... not much that has worked to hinder their use of the Internet. In large part, many experts have concluded that it's not really worthwhile to play Internet cat and mouse because the terrorists will find a way to put their sites back up and it will simply be hard to track them down. Right now they very likely serve as invaluable sources of intelligence for the US and allied governments who monitor them.

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Wheaton, Md.: Since we know much of this propaganda is originating in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, what will it take for the Bush administration to acknowledge that these nations are not our friends?

Susan B. Glasser: Thanks for the question... clearly one of the most difficult issues in prosecuting the so-called "war on terror" has been what to do about allied governments in the Middle East who foment much of the discontent that drives the pro-al Qaeda sentiment. As for Saudi Arabia, it has been consistently surprising to me how little is talked about the high percentage of Saudi fighters who turn up as suicide bombers in neighboring Iraq -- in stark contrast to the Bush administration's regular rhetoric about the role of Syria in assisting the Iraq insurgency...

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Cambridge, Mass.: Congratulations on an excellent collection of articles. I read each one with fascination and horror. I have a question regarding the position of Shia Muslims. It seems to me that Sunni Muslims make up the overwhelming majority of terrorists and clearly those like Zarqawi despise not just Americans but also the Shias. Is that true of the Al-Qaeda leadership as well? If yes, isn't there some way to train Shias in Web monitoring? They would speak the language (which would address the current gap) and have incentive to counter terrorism. (P.S. Besides Iraq what are the other Shia majority countries?)

Susan B. Glasser: thanks... and for the interesting question as well. Zarqawi in particular has targeted Iraqi Shias for cooperating with the U.S. forces, while bin Laden has always stressed a preference for attacks on the "far enemy" of the U.S. But clearly Zarqawi's anti-Shia targeting has had appeal among Sunni Arabs, such as those in Saudi Arabia, who have joined up the Iraq fighters. Intriguing notion about recruiting Shia; in effect, that is largely what the U.S. is doing in Iraq as it seeks to shift greater responsibility to local forces. (As for other Shia countries, the most imp. one is right next to Iraq -- Iran)

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Arlington, Tex.: Is the U.S. government taking any action against the bad guys using the Web as a tool for sending messages or instructions?

Susan B. Glasser: The question readers want to know...! Much speech is covered in the U.S. by the First Amendment, no matter how hateful it may seem to us... and that is most likely why many of the terrorist web sites historically have used servers in the U.S. Interesting that in the wake of the London bombings, British PM Tony Blair seems to be changing his position on 'incitement' of terrorism and urging a new policy of shutting down radical web sites.

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Detroit, Mich.: It would seem to me that one of the reasons for the incredible popularity of these sites is the lack of objectivity on the part of the Western press in presenting and characterizing the war and insurgency. There is a tremendous credibility gap between how the war is presented and how it is perceived -- especially among Muslims.

Susan B. Glasser: That may well be. Certainly, many of the sites I have seen from Iraq appear to be targeted at the Arab audience more than the Western one and amount to an online direct news feed to Zarqawi's core supporters, unfiltered by either western or Arab broadcast media.

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Arlington, Va.: Ms. Glasser,

After 9/11, I started browsing some Islamic and Arab Web sites to try and understand viewpoints from the Mideast, but then I got worried the FBI or someone might be somehow watching me and thinking I was a terrorist. Am I just being paranoid? If I browsed an Al Qaeda web site (not that I can read Arabic), would I show up on some government list somewhere?

Susan B. Glasser: Good question. My husband has been asking the same question as I've been working on this series. Again, goes back to the issue of protected free speech in the U.S.; it seems to me important to understand what these groups are saying in the midst of a war -- more knowledge rather than less about a determined foe.

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Belfast, Ireland: From your research, does al-Qaeda use the Internet for financial purposes, e.g. raising money, moving money, etc? And if so, how? Thank you.

Susan B. Glasser: Several cases have concluded that at least initially they did so -- for example, Babar Ahmad, the subject of the second piece in our series, has been accused in a U.S. indictment of fundraising for various pro-al Qaeda fighting groups on his azzam.com and other Web sites; there are examples of actual publishing bank account numbers online for contributors to send money to. but most of those examples are dated by now and it's not clear to me how crucial the fundraising function online is at the moment.

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Findlay, Ohio: Do you think the U.S. media should do more to educate the American public on the kind of hate that spews from these radical Islamic sites? I have only found a few sites, like Daniel Pipes MEMRI.org , that regularly monitors and translates this information. We need to know what we are up against.

Susan B. Glasser: There are surprisingly few folks out there translating this. Memri is one, the SITE Institute at www.siteinstitute.org and individuals such as the researcher we quoted in the series, Evan Kohlmann (his web site is www.globalterroralert.com) is another. But in general it seems that people in the U.S. have not focused yet on how much information is out there.

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New York, N.Y.: Police have used tactics such as sending fictitious invitations to scofflaws and then rounding them up, when they show up for the fictitious event. Isn't it possible to hijack a terrorist site and use disinformation to lure them into capture?

Susan B. Glasser: Yes, absolutely. And there is a general sense that those tactics are being used. However, I am not aware of any instances where that has resulted in an actual terrorist court case -- in other words, where an online sting has produced an actual arrest and indictment in the U.S. or allied countries.

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Washington, D.C.: I am terribly disappointed in The Post for this series of articles on terrorists using the global Internet to communicate. Your coverage is nothing more than propaganda and fear-mongering. Billions of people - at work, school and home use the Internet for communications. Should it shock and amaze readers that a contingency of the world's "evil-doers" also surf the web and post public messages? Don't terrorists also use cars and trucks to blow-up buildings? Cell phones to coordinate? Where is The Post's three part series on "how terrorists use automobiles to travel from place to place?"

The problem is that the underlying message from your articles is that something needs to be done about certain groups of people accessing and using the Internet, and that is just plain incorrect. The Post should have also taken into account the political climate for speech on the Internet.

The poor judgment used by The Post is very disappointing.

Susan B. Glasser: The reader makes an important point --the Internet here is the tool of terrorists, not the terrorism itself. Then again, I have to disagree with someone who writes to say that because free speech on the Internet is a concern the prescription is NOT to write a series about how al Qaeda and its affiliates operate. Worried about free speech? The answer to me is more information, not less... when journalists start self-censoring because they're worried about what people might do with the information, then journalists are not doing their job.

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Washington, D.C.: Susan:

Thank you for the opportunity to pick your brain. Can you please explain a fundamental disconnect I have with the "insurgency." Their goal, I gather, is to disrupt/end the present fledging government. But what do they want to replace it with? Another strongman like Saddam? Or Saddam himself? Or is simple anarchy good enough?

Susan B. Glasser: Good question -- the "insurgency" in Iraq is certainly no monolith, made up as it is of at least five or so major groupings and dozens or hundreds of individual factions. I'm sure former Baathist officials have a different goal in mind than Abu Musab Zarqawi and his al Qaeda-affiliated foreign fighters, who have pretty clearly defined their presence in Iraq as part of the broader jihad they are waging against the U.S.

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Anonymous: Susan B. Glasser writes :

"and I encourage everyone to look at the wonderful multimedia presentation"

Um... "wonderful." I think I would have chosen "disturbing," but maybe that's just me.

Not much wonderful about watching United States Humvee's getting blown up, is there?

Susan B. Glasser: Point well taken... thanks.

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Washington, D.C.: I wonder if the tactics we are discussing will ever be used to shut down white supremacist sites like panzerfaust.org or kkk.com

Susan B. Glasser: this certainly does tap into an already raging debate about free speech on the Internet and where hate turns into incitement...

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Washington, D.C.: Ms. Glasser - It seems to me that a lot of people are talking about the hate spewing from these Web sites, and it is, but I think it's important to make it clear that not all Muslims, extreme or not, hate the U.S. or the U.S. way of life. How can we prevent Americans from believing this is so?

Susan B. Glasser: This is an excellent point... this is about a very small segment of radical Muslim extremists who have a particular interpretation of Islam and a particular agenda.

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Munich, Germany: For me it's amazing to recall that the first reasons given for censuring or controlling the Internet was because the Internet was being used by terrorists. Since this statement was made before 9/11, it wasn't taken seriously. My, how things have changed!

I've read that terrorists use sophisticated methods to transmit information and synchronize their activities over the Internet, for example, by modifying pixel information in graphics files that are posted on frequently visited public Internet sites.

I'm still amazed at how Zarqawi manages to utilize the Internet without giving up his whereabouts. Most westerners, for example, authors of viruses, eventually get caught. How does Zarqawi evade capture?

Susan B. Glasser: Several different notions in our German reader's question... on how terrorists are using the Internet, our series points out several sophisticated ways they are doing it -- not only logging on to the same place at the same time, but things like fake streams of spam disguising information or relying on free services like email accounts and video upload services.

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Baltimore, Md.: I don't understand how some kid in his Mom's basement can already have written a virus to attack Microsoft's new, as yet un-released, operating system (Vista), whereas Al Qaeda's Web sites are impenetrable.

Susan B. Glasser: It's not that they are impenetrable... but that they have responded to pressure to create an organizational structure much like the Internet itself -- decentralized, relying on networks and duplication of efforts and information. There is no one al Qaeda web site to shut down, but hundreds of bulletin boards -- shut down one, and it doesn't matter.

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Tampa, Fla.: I seems to me that the reason why these sites are most effective is because they are, by in large, highly accurate and present "truths" about the war in Iraq that the Western press seems either unwilling to or disallowed from revealing to their own populations. I would think the effectiveness of this message would be diluted should we choose to face these costs ourselves rather than having them revealed to us (and others) as the "dirty secret war they don't want you to see".

Susan B. Glasser: Some of what the sites present is a version of the 'news from Iraq.' But much is also sensationalistic propaganda -- glorying as martyrs people who kill themselves and Iraqi civilians, gory beheading videos whose purpose seems to shock and horrify far more than to inform. One thing that appalled me as I worked on this series was how widely available the Iraq atrocity videos have become -- often on web sites that are archives of this and pornography.

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Albany, N.Y.: Please forgive the lengthy nature of this - in regards to browsing Islamic Web sites: I have done the same, and have been really concerned the last few days as a result, because of the new FCC law in effect, which permits a backdoor via one's ISP to gather information, I am even more concerned.

I have strong opinions about Iraq, and I like to gather my own information. In the last 2 days, I have had many hacking attempts on my computer - all the IP addresses lead to an IT information company with government contracts. Now I am afraid to get all the information via the Islamic Web sites for fear of being arrested and tagged a terrorist.

Do you think that this is an invasion of privacy when one is simply trying to get all sides of the story in order to fully comprehend the situation? I mean, where do we draw the line?

Susan B. Glasser: I am not aware of anyone being arrested for simply reading these web sites -- I'm sure there are many more readers of them who are in the military or the government than actual terrorists.

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Kansas City, Mo.: The Web is full of anti-American blogs that promote the overthrow of our government and the murder of our leaders. Is this freedom of speech or are these pro-terrorists? Here are a couple of examples of the hate I refer too,

http://www.fotolog.net/anomalek/?photo_id=10381050

http://www.fotolog.net/anomalek/?photo_id=10251991

Susan B. Glasser: No question there's lots of hate speech on the Internet -- by both sides. I recently saw a blog where a group of Americans did bad things to the Koran in the name of free speech, generating a lot of similar comment about hate speech on the Arab blogs... What's the difference, do you think?

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Washington, D.C.: Your stories have been both informative and quite accurate.

1. How would you, if you were the queen of technology, turn this capability against Zarqawi and the other insurgents in Iraq?

Susan B. Glasser: Thanks... unfortunately I am very far from being a technology person. But as an outsider, I've been surprised to realize how little apparent presence the U.S. government has in the Iraq Internet war.

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Bethesda, Md.: For quite some time, Islam has been seen by many as antithetical to technology and modernity, when this has not been the case entirely. Although the Taliban and other fundamentalist Muslims - when I say fundamentalist I mean literal interpretation of the Quran - may reject modern technology, Al Qaeda's use of the Internet over the last several years as well as the growth of jihadist Web sites illustrates somewhat of an Islamic affinity to modernity. Is there any way to convey this as a positive to the American public in order to combat the historically stereotypical view of "the other?"

Susan B. Glasser: Well, I'm not sure whether it's "positive" or not... but there's no question that al Qaeda has always embraced the use of cutting-edge technology, even when, as in the case of the Internet, it presents challenges/threats to its agenda of Islamic fundamentalism. After all, what was the 9/11 attack but the use of Western technology -- the airplane -- against Western symbolic targets?

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Anonymous: It seems to me that al-Qaeda's apparently extensive use of the Internet creates opportunities for great mischief by intelligence services. (I'd suspect that higher level people in al-Qaeda avoid the Web for this reason.)

Some great Hollywood movies could come out of this!

Susan B. Glasser: Yes, indeed... as a wise man once said, we don't know what we don't know...

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Fredericksburg, Va.: "The Web as a tactical weapon"

I think that your superb article demonstrates that the Web is both a tactical and a strategic weapon. In fact, due to the rapid flow of information on the Internet, many tactical actions now routinely have strategic significance. This may also mean that the conventional military division between tactics and strategy may no longer exist. Because tactical actions can now influence so many people and shape so many ideas via the Internet, the tactical application of violence is useless when employed as a countermeasure against a proliferating idea that has strategic consequences amongst a target population. Killing an idea with violence will not work and your article shows exactly why that is so.

Well done. Thank you.

Susan B. Glasser: Thanks for such an interesting perspective... which really gets at the idea of how suited the Internet has been to broadening al Qaeda's message.

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Bend, Ore.: Recently, at The Black Hat Internet security conference, an analyst gave a talk warning of the DoS vulnerability of the Cisco NOS source code that runs on many of the Internet's backbone routers. Given the obvious technical abilities of the jihadists, do any of the experts you've interviewed think the jihadists have the technical ability to exploit the DoS vulnerability in the Cisco source code?

BTW, excellent series. Very illuminating and informative.

Susan B. Glasser: Interesting... I haven't heard that, but will ask now.

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Toronto, Canada: As I read your article on Ammad I wondered why observers should trust the Bush administration's evidence against Ammad. The Bush administration, it seems to me, has shown itself willing to abandon America's traditional respect for truth and the rule of law. Other detainees have been held for years, only to have the charges dropped. The allegations of purchasing GPS, raising funds, etc. seem like mere excuses, that may be dropped, once he is in U.S. custody. Is the real beef against him is his ability to republish radical views -- which may not be illegal.

About recruiting volunteers to fight in Chechnya -- one of my Professors at University fought against fascism in the International Brigades in Spain. I think, after WWII, most people would agree fighting against fascism was a good thing. But, during the war, nations tried to prevent their citizens fighting in Spain. In retrospect, that was a mistake.

Both foreign volunteers for the International Brigades in Spain, and foreign volunteers for Chechnyan independence are fighting for things they value. But how to distinguish between the foreigners who fought for democracy in Spain and those who fight for Islam in Chechnya?

Susan B. Glasser: Thanks... Chechnya raises a whole different can of worms... I just returned from four years as our co-bureau chief in Moscow and can tell you how enraged the Russian government was by the failure of the Western media to refer to Chechen rebels as "terrorists." President Putin often claimed -- mistakenly so -- that we called the Chechens "freedom fighters." Clearly some Chechen rebels have embraced terrorism as a tactic, the deliberate targeting/killing of civilians such as the schoolchildren of Beslan. I don't have any problem calling those who did such things 'terrorists.' At the same time, there are Chechens fighting for a nationalist/separatist cause. What to call them? Is the whole movement tainted by the actions of one faction of it? These are much harder to answer.

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London, Ontario: There was an Internet slide show making the message board rounds a while back purported to be from an Al Qaeda Web site instructing would-be insurgents on the fine art of sniping and assassination. I am unaware of its authenticity, but it used commercially available stock news images (many from Getty) to instruct online students about "shoot" and "don't shoot" situations. One, if I recall correctly, they had one in which the "surprise bonus" was shooting Paul Bremmer. Do you know if this was for real?

Susan B. Glasser: Dunno. There's a lot of bogus material that circulates; that's one of the problems, telling the real from the not.

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Silver Spring, Md.: I know this is sort of out of the box thinking, but these folks who jam our computers here with spyware - is it possible to recruit them to do the same to these Web sites? My computer's crashed because of ad spyware; I say let's get theirs.

Susan B. Glasser: Good question... Any takers with the answer out there?

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Anonymous: The recent announcement that 14 Marines were killed in action in Iraq, bringing total losses of our military to 1800+, has caused many Americans to begin to believe that President Bush' war against terrorism is too costly. Media driven public opinion is moving toward belief that we should withdraw our troops from the battle. I wonder how those who believe peace and security isn't worth fighting for would feel if they lived during the 2nd World War and woke up to the headlines one day that 6000 of our Marines were killed on the beaches of Iwo Jima that morning? How would they feel learning that 14,000 more were killed before the Island was secure? I suppose they would have marched in parades demanding that President Roosevelt withdraw our forces from the Pacific, right? There is a price for liberty and those of us that have served in defense of our country's freedoms know that. We know we are at risk but the goal is worthy. Terrorism via suicide bombers is no less a danger to this country than the evil nature of 2000 kamikaze pilots crashing into our naval ships. Thank God we didn't quit the battle in response to their puny effort to deter our victory and thank God we have someone in the White House who understands the menace of terrorism now. We are used to reading about our military success but there is no defense against the willingness of an individual to strap explosives around his waist and walk into a populated area and blow himself up, thus killing our soldiers and innocent civilians. Reporting these occurrences like a sports box score each day does little to inform your readers. Surely there must be more to our occupation of Iraq than who was blown up yesterday- or do you have a different agenda?

Susan B. Glasser: It's up to the Bush administration to articulate the reasons for its occupation of Iraq -- and to us to cover the consequences of that surely. If the press ignored the daily drumbeat of deaths and mayhem in Iraq, I'm sure we would be accused, and rightly so, of covering up the situation there.

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New York, N.Y.:

Ms. Glasser,

Just a note of thanks and congratulations on the series. The video which you, Mr. Wilson and Mr. King produced is the very best multimedia work I've seen on the Web -- riveting.

Susan B. Glasser: Thanks to the writer -- and to all the excellent questions that came in today.

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