Walter Cunningham
Former NASA Astronaut
Tuesday, August 9, 2005
12:00 PM
The space shuttle Discovery safely returned to Earth this morning after its 14-day trip into space. What's it like to return from space? How has the space flight changed over the years?
Walter Cunningham was in the lunar module pilot seat on Apollo 7's 11-day flight in October 1968, which provided the first live television transmission from onboard a space shuttle. The Apollo 7's crew completed a series of tests and maneuvers, followed by returned to Earth via a splash into the Atlantic.
Read more about Walter Cunningham 's career and his book, "All-American Boys," here.
Former NASA astronaut Walter Cunningham was online Tuesday, Aug. 9, at Noon ET to discuss the return of the space shuttle Discovery and his own experiences in space.
The transcript follows.
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Ann Arbor, Mich.: Greetings, Mr. Cunningham, and thank you (and washingtonpost.com) for this opportunity! I grew up with the space program (my mother had a teaching minor in Science) and it's an honor to pose a question to you.
This is an "English major" question so forgive me, please: Do we always have to start the descent into the atmosphere at such a high speed? Would slowing the return speed down, in your opinion, make space travel a little safer?
Thank you for all you've done for our nation!
Walter Cunningham: You aren't in orbit until you are above (say) 105 miles and going 17,500 mph horizontal to the earth. You only have to knock off a few hundred mph and reentry is inevitable. The more you reduce velocity in orbit, the steeper the reentry will be. It doesn't take much and you will exceed the vehicle's temperature limits, and the human body's G tolerance. It is an amazing process that we can safely tightrope our way back from orbital space.
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Richmond, Va.: How do the astronauts manage sleeping aboard the shuttle? Do they sleep in shifts? Do they usually sleep for 8 hours? It seems to me it would be difficult to get "a good night's sleep" when there must be a lot going on.
Walter Cunningham: I imagine they are all sleeping at the same time. I think the last mission where we slept in shifts was Apollo 7. It was too very difficult to sleep when there was activity in the spacecraft, and we recommended simultaneous sleeping.
Also,we had ground monitoring capability less than 5 percent of the time. Today, with satellite coverage, it is virtually continuous ground monitoring.
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Fort Belvoir, Va.: What do you think of the proposals floating around to develop a new generation of manned spacecraft using mainly existing shuttle propulsion components, but with crew capsules mounted on top of the booster stack? Seems like a great idea to go back to the tried-and-true Mercury/Gemini/Apollo configuration that protects the crew from whatever is going on beneath them. After all, we never lost a crew in flight in those days.
Walter Cunningham: We didn't lose any crews in the "good old days", partially because there were only 27 manned missions before the Shuttle. Also, the management culture really was different.
No question, NASA is headed the way you describe. It will take a whole range of vehicles to replace what the Shuttle does. I, for one, still favor a winged vehicle using a rocket combined cycle for first stage propulsion
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Washington, D.C.: When did you leave NASA and what have you done since?
Walter Cunningham: I resigned from NASA in July 1971. Since that time, I have been CEO or COO of several companies, run my own venture capital fund, been a talk show host, writer, lecturer, traveler, etc. Never a dull moment.
Walter Cunningham: For further details see my web site: www.waltercunningham.com or my book, The All-American Boys.
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Harrisburg, Pa.: How exhilarating is it to be in outer space? How nervewracking is it knowing that there are so many things can go wrong? In sum, is it an emotional roller coaster, or does your training help keeps things even through the journey?
Walter Cunningham: It is exhilarating, but in my day, little time to enjoy the experience until late in the mission. Too busy. I get the impression that there is more time to smell the roses on today's missions.
I did not worry about things going wrong on Apollo 7. No one knew the spacecraft like I did. We thought we could handle almost anything. You only worry about something not working when that particular thing is critical to your survival. Those seconds (or minutes) only amounted to 5 or 6 minutes on Apollo 7.
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Washington, D.C.: Watched this morning, couldn't not. What I love so much about our astronauts and our journeys into space is the combination of professionalism and humanity that we witness. On one hand, it's all business, beautifully and efficiently carried out. On the other hand, the times when an astronaut may have a 'holy cow!' moment are precious and appreciated. We need to know that we humans are not so jaded that we are no longer delighted by the knowledge we can, the beauty we see, the thrill of the unknown. It's not all about profit. Thanks to NASA and all of you for that!
Walter Cunningham: Thank you. It is the most highly motivated group of people I have been associated with--and not just the astronauts. We did it partially for the thrill and excitement, partially for the opportunity to operate at our highest level in a great endeavor, and, not the least, for our country. We certainly did not do it for the money. My first year at NASA, I earned $13,500.
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Worcester, Mass.: Apollo 7 and the very risky Apollo 8 (which I heard PBS is doing a special on this fall) were filled with unknowns and seemed a little scarier than today's missions. With all that we've learned and all of the ways we can monitor the missions now, do you think astronauts are safer going into space today than they were in the 1960's?
Walter Cunningham: The Shuttle Orbiter is the most capable vehicle we have ever launched into space. It is also the safest. It is far less risky than our earlier manned vehicles. I also believe the just completed Discovery mission was the least risky of all the Shuttle missions. Unfortunately, space is, and always will be, the riskiest environment into which man has ventured.
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Colorado: Do you think it is important that NASA return to the moon and why or why not?
Thank you for taking questions.
Walter Cunningham: No, I do not think it is important to return to the Moon. I call it "Mars light." It is an out for those who want to appear favoring a bold program of exploration, but are afraid to commit to Mars.
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Pittsburgh, Pa.: Mr. Cunningham,
Sir, I first want to say that as a young boy growing up in the 1960's, you and your fellow astronauts provided many an inspirational moment for me. I still have my collection of autographed astronaut photos - including yours - which I treasure and am passing along to my young son.
My question, is this: There is an inherent risk involved in any sort of exploration? Are we as a nation becoming too risk-adverse in the sense that we feel we have to have a 99.99% potential success rate before we try anything? My gut tells me that petrifying caution has overtaken "can-do" enthusiasm within the NASA bureaucracy. I'd appreciate your thoughts. And thank you again for your service to our country and the space program.
Walter Cunningham: My wife says the question looks like I set it up, because I share your sentiments. We just spent at least 3 very expensive days just checking over the orbiter. You can't "boldly go where no man has gone before" if your focus is on overwhelming caution.
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Alexandria, Va.: It would appear that the next generation of manned space vehicle may be a larger, modernized version of the Apollo. What are your thoughts on this seemingly retro approach?
As an aside, what did you think of your portrayal on HBO's "From the Earth to the Moon"?
Walter Cunningham: On the positive side, it worked. But requirements were different in those days. What has been proposed will, in no way, "replace" the Shuttle Orbiter. It will take an array of spacecraft and launch vehicles. There is nothing wrong with a capsule, IF they have a good land landing system AND enough L/D for more precise landings. The jury is still out in my opinion.
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Washington, D.C.: I'm not much of a NASA follower, forgive me; however, when the shuttle is in space I become transfixed on it, the mission, NASA, etc. Christa McAuliffe was my 5th grade teacher so you can imagine the sadness when Challenger exploded so many years ago...maybe that's why I get excited, nervous, anxious, thrilled when we're back up there. I set my alarm yesterday for 4 a.m. so I could watch the shuttle return only to have be 'on hold' (with the nation) for 24 hours but it was so exciting to see it touch down this morning. I literally had goose bumps knowing they made it home safely.
Not sure where the shuttle program will or should go in the future, do you feel it's something worth continuing or should we move on to other adventures?
Thanks! Go NASA!
Walter Cunningham: We certainly need to move on to Mars, and there is no place for the Shuttle orbiter in that type of exploration. On the other hand, there is no vehicle on the drawing boards that can do all that the Orbiter can. We need to continue flying the Shuttle until the next generation has been tested successfully. No orbiter has used up more than 30 percent of its planned service life of 100 flights. It should be regularly maintained and flown for the next 10 years.
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Olney, Md.: Hi Mr. Cunningham. I'm 45 years old. Do you think there will be a manned mission to Mars in my lifetime?
Walter Cunningham: Short answer, no. Actually, a slim chance. The President's new vision for NASA, calls for a landing on Mars "sometime after 2030."
For programs as momentous as Apollo or Mars, it takes three things: the technology, the resources, and the will to do it.
We have the technology, with a few (difficult) unanswered questions.
We have the resources; it could be done for 1.5 to 2.0 times the cost of Apollo, and we have a much larger economy today.
Our weakness is the will to do it. NASA is becoming more and more risk averse. They may just be a reflection of our society today. People seem to have forgotten that there our things worth dying for. Moving humanity out to Mars is certainly one of them.
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Washington, D.C.: I noticed that when the Space Shuttle descends from space, the pilot nose down 20 times steeper than commercial airplanes. Why does the descent has to be so steep and is it stressful on the flight crew?
Walter Cunningham: The Orbiter reentry is controlled to less than 3 Gs on reentry, and that occurs well before the aerodynamic portion of the landing. The steep descent is because of the necessity to keep a safe flying speed with the very low L/D ( < 3.0) and no engines. It is a 175,000 glider. The steep final descent creates no significant G loads.
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Fairfax, Va.: I been looking at a Web site with Apollo 7 photos. Stunning. It seems so long ago. Did the spacecraft contain equipment with transistors, or was this the era of vacuum tubes?
Walter Cunningham: The Apollo spacecraft did not rely on vacuum tubes. Our onboard computer had 38 KILOBYTES of memory, 34 of which were unaddressable.
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Morristown, N.J.: I am sorry, but with our huge national debt, a Congress that is out of control with spending taxpayers dollars, and the need to focus on the global issue of terrorism, I feel that these space flights are an enormous waste of money. Please convince me that I'm wrong.
Walter Cunningham: I don't recall ever successfully convincing someone with your opinion that space exploration was worthwhile. And it is not expensive, costing you less than $0.15 per day. We spend more on Pizza than we do on NASA.
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Fairfax, Va.: First of all, thank you for your dedication to NASA. What would you say to students (like myself) that want to pursue a career but are afraid to step forward to it because of competition in the field?
Walter Cunningham: Never be afraid of competition. It is just an opportunity to be your best. If you don't quite make it, you are still ahead for having competed.
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Centreville, Va.: Mr. Cunningham, thanks for the opportunity to allow ordinary citizens like ourselves to interview you. You are very respected and admired by many. My question is the following, is there anything that you could change from your experience with the NASA program? Thanks for your time.
Walter Cunningham: Yes, I would try to learn to deal better with internal politics, and I would be a little less outspoken. It was a great life--40 years ago.
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Suffolk, Va.: Hi and thanks for taking my question. How do they get the shuttle from Ca. back to Fla.?
Walter Cunningham: It is mounted piggy-back on top of a specially modified Boeing 747 and flown back. They have to be careful and not fly it even through raindrops.
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Jacksonville, Fla.: I am of the opinion that the STS has set us back 20 years -- and this is not hindsight. I quit NASA when I saw the selected design in 1972.
Do you know what I am saying, and do you agree with this?
Walter Cunningham: Don't agree. I believe the Orbiter is the greatest flying machine ever built by man to be operated by man.
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Santa Fe, N.M.: Walter, How does the computer power of the Apollo system you flew rate with today technology?
Walter Cunningham: We had 38 KILOBYTES of computer memory, 34 of which were not addressable.
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Baltimore, Md.: I hate to be negative, but I worry that the successful return of the Discovery could take the focus off of the serious design flaws that have been demonstrated and which remain. Between the inherent, multiple problems with the heat shield, and the recurring insulation problems with the liquid fuel tank, it seems to me that the shuttle is a death trap. Imagine a car that needed repair every time it took to the road. I understand that it is an inherently risky business, but even so there are levels of acceptable risk which I think are sometimes stretched in the wake of "get-there-itis". Am I being unfairly negative? Thanks.
Walter Cunningham: yes you are unfairly negative. That is an attitude that has been created by the media. NASA "new" culture hasn't helped. See my earlier response on the safest manned space vehicle ever built.
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Ann Arbor, Mich.: "The Shuttle Orbiter is the most capable vehicle we have ever launched into space. It is also the safest. It is far less risky than our earlier manned vehicles."
Could you give a little more detail please?
Why do you think it is safer? We have to hit a runway just right. Capsules usually landed in the Pacific, a pretty wide target.
Walter Cunningham: Please see my book.
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Santa Fe, N.M.: Walter,
With plans for the next generation of spacecrafts returning to the preshuttle capsule design, like the Apollo system you flew, do you think the liftbody design of the shuttle has not worked out as hoped?
Walter Cunningham: Please see my earlier reply.
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NAS Sigonella, Sicily: Good afternoon Mr. Cunningham. I enjoyed your book, "All American Boys" more than most other early space program/Apollo memoirs! A shame you were kept off later Apollo flights.
My question: Do you feel the astronaut corps in the last 20 years has become more of a 'job corps' for space flight? Back in the 60's and early 70's people could easily rattle off the names of each Mercury through Apollo crew and recognize them walking down the street. With the exception of a few 'old-timers' like John Young, most Americans wouldn't know the name of any astronaut today.
Walter Cunningham: No question the nature of the program has changed; even the nature of the Astronaut Corps. It is difficult to remember names when there are well over 100 astronauts all the time.
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Lansdale, Pa.: Hi Mr. Cunningham... seeing Apollo 7 on TV ("Keep those cards and letters coming in, folks") is one of my earliest memories... at 4 years old, you and your crew and your mission made a tremendous impression on me... ironically, I was "sick" from school for every Apollo-Skylab-Shuttle mission from 1968-1982 (and into college).
My question is, how true was the talk I've heard about the divide in NASA between the "scientists" and the "fighter jocks"? Did it really come into play that much once you got down to the business of preparing for the mission?
Thank you for your service to our country!!
Walter Cunningham: We had very few scientists who came into the program in the late sixties. The first thing we did was send them to Air Force pilot training. The subject is discussed in detail in my book, The All-American Boys.
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Virginia: When the shuttle landed this AM at Edwards AFB, the landing strip seemed to be all sands rather than a regular runaway. Correct?
Walter Cunningham: Runway 4-22 is a long, hard surface runway, but it continues out into the dry lake bed for several miles. The lake bed has been used many, many times for new test programs.
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Munich, Germany: What were the most important personal traits and characteristics, back in the 60's and 70's, for a young man (or woman) to be chosen as an astronaut? Has this change at all in the last 30 or 40 years?
I'm thinking of the film, "The Right Stuff", where education and physical fitness were depicted as being the right stuff.
Walter Cunningham: Please see my book, The All-American Boys.
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Walter Cunningham: Thanks, gang, I enjoyed it. Walt
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