Bernard Goldberg
Journalist and Author
Thursday, August 25, 2005
12:00 PM
Bernard Goldberg 's new book, "100 People Who are Screwing Up America (And Al Franken is #37)," describes what he believes to be the downslide of American civility due to the influences of certain types of people (for example, the Schlockmeisters, the Pinstripe Crooks, the Intellectual Thugs, the Hollywood Loudmouths, etc.). Goldberg says "It's a poison that is turning America into a far nastier place than it ought to be, a more selfish and cynical place, a less decent and civil place, a less decent and civil place. It's easy to believe that it's nobody's fault; that this is just the way society has evolved. But that's not true. There are specific individuals who, in various ways, are screwing up things in this country."
Bernard Goldberg , journalist and author of "100 People Who are Screwing Up America," was online Thursday, Aug. 25, at noon ET to discuss his book.
The transcript follows.
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Flushing, N.Y.: I would think that there are more then 100 people that are screwing up America. How many people did you consider, before deciding on just the 100?
Bernard Goldberg: After I got to 100, I had to drop names while I was adding new ones. This went on and on, until I had to turn the manuscript in to the printer. I still see and hear things and wish I could keep updating the list.
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Louisville, Ky.: I agree there are far to many people screwing up America and I see only about few made the cover. Although, I do not agree with everything that comes from people like Al Sharpton, Eminem, and Howard Dean. Without out them young America would be even more uniformed, unmotivated and completely disenchanted by the world around them. For example; Al Sharpton is never a real contender for any political office but he is able to voice opinions and catch the ear of people who would other wise not listen or care. He has a distinct presence and sometimes a very valid point that some African-Americans agree with and brings these issues to the forefront. Eminem although some of his lyrics are a brash they are also "real" this is the part of America that we so commonly like to over look; "poor inner-city whites" that do not fit into the homogeneous stereotypical role of suburbs, SUVs, and white picket fences. Howard Dean must be given credit for the fact that he brought such notoriety to the 2004 presidential primary. For a very long time no one under the age of 35 has ever cared about a presidential primary until Howard Dean. I am fortunate to have witnessed this in person at the Iowa Caucuses. Howard Dean's campaign was an eclectic mix of ages, races, genders, sexual orientations, religions, and so on. Dean's ability to bring all these people together is a far cry from "screwing up America" it was very impressive to say the least. It brought people together all fighting for the same cause and promoting the ideal...this is America and how things should be. Mr. Goldberg, I have not read your book but if that is your idea of a screwed up America then I sure hope it continues to happen.
Bernard Goldberg: My guess is you won't read the book, but if you do you'll see things about Al Sharpton that MIGHT make you re-think your position. As for Eminem and other rappers... they inhabit a dark world. Read some of his lyrics in my book. If you still think he's so wonderful, well then, reasonable people may disagree. As for Howard Dean, it's not his politics, it's his anger. But I suspect you don't see it that way, either.
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Concord, N.H.: I have not read your book but saw that the cover is littered with photos of the usual liberal suspects. Do you reserve your ire for liberals, or are you an equal opportunity basher?
Bernard Goldberg: Hello Concord. There are some conservatives on the list, too, but there are more liberals. Because, as I said elsewhere in this chat session, liberals control the culture -- TV, music, universities, etc. So if I'm writing about the ones screwing up the culture, there are bound to be more liberals. But I have come to understand that my friends on the Left have closed their mind regarding my book. If George Bush, Karl Rove, John Ashcroft aren't on the list, then the whole project is a sham. Except, as I say, the book is about the culture, not mainly about politics. But you know what: if half the list were made up of conservatives, the angry Left still wouldn't be happy. Why only 50, they'd say.
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Harrisburg, Pa.: I notice some of your critical observations are not just towards people whose views against which you have disagreement, but with people who you believe have done things that have attack our cultural values. Did you pick examples you believe are representative of cultural or value decline, or do you believe that these individuals on their own have made significant contributions towards cultural decline?
Bernard Goldberg: I think it's a which came first, the chicken or the egg type of thing. TV executives put on raunchy shows during what we used to call the family hour. Gangsta rappers go on about their bitches. Did they cheapen the culture ... or was the culture heading south already. They each contribute, I think, to the other. But in the case of television, they mainstream -- and in a way, "legitimize" --their "values." So if on the O.C., a kid is having sex with his ex-girlfriends's mother ... now it's out there. And -- hey, it's on TV -- so it's sort of mainstream now. I'm not saying TV creates the situation, but it gets these ideas out there quicker and, as I say, because it's on TV, is suddenly more mainstream than it would have been. Hope this helps, a little.
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Oklahoma City, Okla.: In truth, Mr. Goldberg, I think the people who are screwing up America most are we the people. Face it, where would those folks be without we?
I have seen the golem and it is us.
Bernard Goldberg: I've heard this argument before. But blaming "everybody" is not much different from blaming "nobody." Yes, it's true that crummy TV shows or angry politicians need public support to survive. But saying it's all our fault lets the purveyors of crap in the culture off too easily.
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Bethesda, Md.: Pretty laughable that nowhere on your list appears anyone from an Administration that looked America in the eye night after night and lied straight-faced to them about a "threat" that they knew wasn't. One that has cost us 1,850 soldiers, $1,300/taxpayer, our allies and our credibility. If that isn't undiluted disdain for our country, I can't imagine what is.
But such is the delusional state of the American right wing right now.
Bernard Goldberg: Speaking of delusions, I'm just wondering: If the Bush Administration "knew" the threat wasn't real, then why subject themselves to the mess we find ourselves in now? Doesn't it make more sense to believe that they got the WMD thing wrong? After all, the Brits also got it wrong, as did the French, the Germans, the Russians, the United Nations, Bill Clinton, etc. But there's a big difference between "getting it wrong" ... and "knowing" there was no threat in the first place. Thanks.
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Detroit, Mich.: Do you want the public to take you seriously? Even the title of your book, with the words "screwing up" lets one know that your latest work is not a thoughtful analysis of how our country may be ill-served by some of its citizens. More so, is the choice of individuals you show or mention on your book cover: e.g., Al Franken, Barbara Streisand, and Michael Moore. These are among the most influential people causing our country to go in a wrong direction? Even if I had a conservative bent, I could do better than this. You seem to have more in common with a Zell Miller than a Barry Goldwater: a bark but little insight. What about the most glaring omission from your book: George W. Bush. One would think that a president who takes us into an unnecessary war under false pretenses might merit an inclusion.
Bernard Goldberg: Thanks for the email. But don't you feel just a little funny ranting, without having read the book? Forget the list for a moment. The book is about the culture. About how you can't watch a TV show with your kids anymore for fear of what kind of raunchy stuff they're going to say and do. It's about lawyers who file inane frivolous lawsuits. It's about college administrators and students who impose speech codes. What's liberal about that? Please save your analysis until you read the book. Which I know will never happen.
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Oklahoma City, Okla.: Would you add Cindy Sheehan as number 101 this week? Her bizarre statements -- Bush as terrorist, it's really all about Israel or oil -- certainly put her out on the left fringes with Michael Moore. I recall the famous statement by North Vietnamese Col. Bui Tin, who noted that antiwar protestors in America were "essential to our strategy" in undermining American efforts in South Vietnam. Ms. Sheehan, for all the sympathy due her, is still treading very close to becoming the "Hanoi" Jane Fonda of 2005.
Bernard Goldberg: I'm with you. Our hearts go out to her for her loss, but she is wearing thin. It is perfectly reasonable to disagree with President Bush on Iraq. But the over-the-top nonsense she's spouting is doing her and her cause more harm than she understands. Notice, no big name Democrat is down there with her.
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Lubbock, Tex.: Aren't individuals the products of cultural trends, and therefore the issue is more one of how do we change these cultural trends?
Bernard Goldberg: You can't fix a problem until you identify it -- and admit we have a problem. In this book, I write about the problem as I see it. But the cultural Left won't even acknowledge the problem. I've heard over and over that "government matters, the culture doesn't." Really? I'm not saying gangsta rappers, for example, are as dangerous as terrorists. The latter certainly pose a more immediate threat to our well being. But calling women worthless bitches and portraying them in the most degrading way, can also do the culture harm -- in the long run.
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Bethesda, Md.: Have you considered that by writing this hate filled book you are one of the people who are screwing up the country?
Bernard Goldberg: I hope you're as passionate about people who call conservatives Nazis, and rappers who call women bitches, and university bigwigs who impose speech codes on students, and cultural elites who call the president of the United States a "dumb f__k." I assume you haven't spent a moment on any of this, so I can't take your characterization of my book as hate-filled too seriously. For the record, I don't call anybody a Nazi or a fascist or a liar and I don't drop the F bomb on anyone either. A central theme of the book is that the culture is getting too angry. You may want to look in the mirror. But thanks for writing.
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Challex, France: In your view, who are the first ten on your list of the top 100 people who are screwing up America. I would also like to know the reasons for your choice.
Bernard Goldberg: Rather than go down the list, let me say that this book takes on some of the culprits who, in my humble opinion, are screwing things up -- in a wide variety of ways. There are university people on the list, and Hollywood people, and lawyers, and people in the music business who depict women as worthless bitches and ho's, as well as some media people. And yes, there are more liberals on the list than conservatives ... because liberals dominate the culture. They control Hollywood and universities and music, etc.
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Geneva, Ohio: Are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney on your list? It would seem in view of the debacle they've involved the country in Iraq they should be at the top of your list.
Bernard Goldberg: I've heard this a lot, and understand your point. But the book is about the culture. It is not about politics. The few politicians in the book are there, NOT because of how they voted on this issue or that, but because of something else they've done -- something uncivil, for example. We may disagree with George Bush on policy, but I think he's a decent man. I said that yesterday to a very liberal radio talk show host and he totally disagreed. I think many people -- I'm not saying you're one of them -- detest the president so much, they can't think straight about other things, like his character. To me, he's a good man -- though I disagree with him on some very important issues.
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Washington, D.C.: Bernie, I have always enjoyed your work on TV. What did you think of what happened to your former CBS colleague Dan Rather? Is he one of he people screwing up America?
Bernard Goldberg: Dan got pushed out mainly because of low ratings, though Memogate was not irrelevant. However, if Dan had been #1 in the evening news horse race, the scandal would not have been enough to get him kicked upstairs. Dan has spent over 40 years at CBS News and has covered every major story of our time. He brought this on himself -- by circling the wagons and pointing fingers at his accusers -- but still it's a little sad to see the guy get "beaten up" by his own colleagues who have said less than flattering things about him (in the New Yorker, for example). Dan's flaw is that he's not very introspective. He lashes out at critics, instead of looking inward. And yes -- because of Memogate, and only because of Memograte -- he is on The List.
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Arlington, Va.: Do you consider Pat Robertson's statement on TV that Hugo Chavez should be assassinated civil? Do you consider Michael Graham's statement on radio that the religion of Islam is a terrorist organization civil?
Which of these guys handled his controversy better in you opinion? Robertson, who apologized for saying it, or Graham who reiterated the statement in several subsequent interviews ?
Bernard Goldberg: This is more complex than a lot of folks may think. Of course, our first reaction is: how can anyone say such a thing, that an elected leader of another country should be bumped off. But consider this (and nothing I say here should be seen as even vaguely endorsing Pat Robertson's comment): What if we had knocked off Saddam Hussein -- and then did NOT go to war with Iraq. What that have been civil-- or what that have been worth it, in that it would have saved several thousand lives.
As for the radio talk show host's remarks: I heard him on TV last night and the point he was making is that there hasn't been enough outrage from supposedly moderate Muslims around the world. His language aside, that's another point worth considering.
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New Orleans, La.: The ongoing Cindy Sheehan promotion carried on by the MSM is proof positive that the thesis expounded in your books are correct. Other than Fox News, none of the MSM, including this paper, have reported her extreme left-wing views, i.e.: that this war is being fought for Bush's "rich oil friends," that Bush is the world's "biggest terrorist," that the Iraqi insurgents are "freedom fighters" and that the U.S. should abandon Israel. Maureen Dowd's comment that Ms. Sheehan has "absolute moral authority" is another example. We can grieve with Ms. Sheehan over the death of her son, but her position as the mother is just bad luck - it does not make her possessed of any special wisdom. Query: will the continuing ratings and circulation declines of the MSM ever make them see the light?
Bernard Goldberg: Thanks you for the very smart and perceptive email. You nailed it! We can disagree with President Bush on Iraq --no problem there. But that he's fighting the war so his oil buddies can rich is nuts. Yet many on the Left, not just Ms. Sheehan, believe that. Will the media see the light? Don't hold your breath. But in fairness, much of the media, by now, have pointed out her left-wing leanings. Better late than never, huh?
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Lyme, Conn.: Let me please ask your question in reverse: who are some of the people you see as improving America, and what are these people doing that make this a better country?
Bernard Goldberg: Well, I write about that too in the book. Let's take just one example. Bill Cosby. His remarks about black kids to the black civil rights establishment make him a profile in courage as far as I'm concerned. Who else? Most Americans -- who go to work and take care of their families and play by the rules. Sorry if that sounds corny, but every now and then corny ought to be OK, right?
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Jefferson City, Mo.: Mr. Goldberg...
Why do you not include our current president? If ANYONE has done more to "screw up" America, Mr. Bush has got to be at the top of the list.
Ask the nearly 2000 Americans who have died in this "optional" war.
Bye purposely omitting the president, your conservative BIAS is showing. Even though you claim to be a democrat.
Bernard Goldberg: I've dealt with this one several times in this chat. Check it out. For what it's worth, I still consider myself an old fashioned liberal, which I suspect is not good enough for you or others on the Left these days. But thanks for writing.
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Washington, D.C.: I saw your contentious interview on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Have you had any feedback or negative reactions from what transpired? Thank you for taking my question.
Bernard Goldberg: Yeah, I got lots of feedback. And predictably ... my liberal friends thought he was brilliant ... while my conservative friends thought he ought to give his mouth a rest every now and then. It's like everything else in our culture: the Left and the Right can't ever see eye to eye.
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United Kingdom: Dear Sir, Who is No.1 on your list?
Bernard Goldberg: Dear Sir ... Michael Moore is #1. He told one of your British newspapers that the American people are possibly the dumbest people on the planet." He also said, again to one of your papers, that the United States "is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe." Gee, I wonder why so many people are risking their lives to come here. But here's the really sad part: millions of liberals in the U.S. think he's a courageous voice of reason. Once liberals looked up to JFK. Now they look up to Michael Moore. Enough said.
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washingtonpost.com: Thank you all for joining us today.
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